in the hour with a man who's already left his own unique mark on the face and history of New York City if Donald Trump is not in the news for a high stakes deal or controversial new development he may be in the gossip columns with his latest relationship but less than two years a go the news was that the Trump Empire was in trouble and some were quick to announce that the king had lost his crown Donald Trump some say is out to prove them wrong and is currently writing his third book which is the art of the comeback and that's what we want to start with Donald Trump is here and I'm pleased to have him welcome hi Charlie nice to have you here been a long time it has we're New Orleans back during the Republican convention in a little room talking about uh actually talking about the CH challenge of the Japanese at that time exactly right exactly right now here is Trump the art of the deal and this is Trump surviving at the top and and here is the casino Journal saying Gaming's greatest comeback here is guess what casino player The Comeback Kid Donald Trump's amazing turnaround and here is New York Magazine out this week fighting back Trump trump scrambles off the canvas Bill Clinton after the new New Hampshire primary went out front of and had a press conference and he said even though he came in second said I'm the comeback kid that's right and look what happened to Bill Clinton right now if you could translate that for you where would it be where would it take you to what would be the equivalent of reaching the White House for you well I think just doing what I'm doing Charlie you know I've had a really great streak over the last year a lot of people went down the economy is in a horrible condition just a deplorable condition the politicians destroyed the economy in 1986 when they passed a tax law that just destroyed the real estate industry which in turn destroyed the banks and the Savings Banks and Savings and Loans and I really got very lucky in a way I built the Taj Mahal which everyone said that's going to be his downfall the Taj Mahal it's over a billion dollar building and it's turned out to be one of the best deals I've ever made it broke records for the last three months it won over $40 million a month no Casino in history has won anywhere near that uh all three of my casinos were rated four stars by the mobile travel guide and they're the only casinos in the United States that are so rated so you know it's really been an incredible period of six or seven months for me and it's uh it's really been Gra now they all want to do the comeback stories and everything else and I really I think I probably care less about that than I would have maybe three or four years ago but it's been a it's been a pretty good experience for me then how are you different than you were three or four years ago well I used to say and in fact I think I said in my first book that and maybe this was foolish but I I really meant it that someday I'd like to maybe lose everything for a period of time to see who's loyal and who's not loyal and I frankly I found out a lot of things you find out who's loyal not I tell you what and you can't guess it can't predict it you think certain people would be loyal no matter what and it turns out that they're not and you just you just can't predict it it's very difficult what hurt the most well it's a whole different scene Charlie I mean we have a you know we have a situation where you have everything going everything going perfectly and then one day you wake up and the world is coming to an end from the standpoint of the economy but I I just think that I've had I've had a lot of luck I've had a lot of friends I've had a lot of good friends and overall I've done really well with it and and I'm I'm very happy about it all right now help me go back and understand what it was to be you and what happened so the economy did you know you were hit and other real estate developers and some people have not been able to come back some um developers in Canada and in the United States who had a magnificent reputation for quality and for the deal I have not are still in bankruptcy in fact how high did it get for you I mean what was it like for you before the crash and and and then how low did it get for you when things began to go bad and people were counting you out and saying that that not only uh could you not recover but that you were that far from bankruptcy yeah well I never thought I was that far from bankruptcy but a lot of people were giving me a hard time and I think overall Charlie it was U it was an experience that I don't think I want to go through it again I have to tell you this I mean uh you know you know what it's like it's you're you're really in a position where I think that if you had to do it again I'm not sure you could I went through a period of two years that was truly tough tough in what way well you know you have parents and you have people that adore you and you have people that for 15 years nothing went wrong and then all of a sudden the world seems to be coming to an end I mean it just seems to be come and it's just it was just sort of an incredible experience for me did you have to go to your father and say B me out help me help me get through this crisis one more time my father wouldn't have been in a position to be me out but he certainly helped and you know morally and and in any way he could uh my mother was great I have a sister who's a federal judge and she's very very strong she's a she's a fantastic woman I never knew as to loyalty whether or not she'd be there or wouldn't be there and she was there in Spades other people were there but you know the the incredible thing is you can't really tell you can't really tell who's going to be there who's not um I would have bet my life on certain people I would have said uh political speaking that somebody that you know Andrew Stein would have been there and he wasn't I would have said that other there for what he wasn't there in terms of for 15 years I supported Andrew Stein supported him I I never asked him for a thing when I needed a vote on Riverside South until the very end when everybody else was on board Andrew was not there and I was I was really surprised at that now ultimately he was there but it shouldn't have been so difficult it really shouldn't have been so but here comes one of the things that they say about you is is that there ticks within you a vindictiveness about that and you're not going to forget that and part of the Trump style is to at some point you're going to try to get Stein back well I don't think I'm going to try and get Stein back I'm just disappointed I'm disappointed in other people and I'm not disappointed in some I mean there have PE been people that uh were much more a man like Alan Greenberg or Bear Sterns who would call me every day during the trauma what would he say well he just called me and it'd boost me he'd say h just keep figh just keep fighting you know he was he's really a phenomenal guy and a great leader and that's why Bear Sterns I mean without any big parent company I me Bear Sterns has just done tremendously well but Allen has been a you know a really loyal friend and I've had a lot of other loyal friends but the the thing and and I guess I'm going to go into this in the third book uh I do one book it's a bestseller I do another book it's a best and number one bestseller both books were number one and I think frankly I think this is the best book I think this will be the best book because I really believe I know much more now than I did for the other two I've learned I've learned about hardship something which really I didn't know I went to the best school I did great yeah go to the Wharton School of Finance you go through it easily you do fantastically well uh everything goes smooth you get out of school you make a lot of money every deal works out it's it was sort of like just a series of of you couldn't make did you think you were Invincible at that time I don't I never thought I was invincible because I've seen too much and you have to learn from history about others so I never thought I was invincible but I had a 15-year run that was you know virtually unprecedented I had a tremendous run and all of a sudden 1990 hit and I remember there was an article welcome to the 9s Donald but 1990 hit and the economy was crashing and the banks were crashing and everything was crashing and what happened is I learned a lot about myself and I learned a lot about other people okay but you keep saying I learned I learned what did you learn about yourself did you what what I think I learned for real that I'm a pretty tough guy because you really it's it takes a tough guy hey it takes the brains and it takes the this and it takes but it also takes the toughness because to go through a period of turmoil where everything seems to be going in the wrong direction and survive it and end up as they say in in my new magazine covers are coming back well but what they say here what what Greenberg say is that Trump went from owning 100% of nothing to 50% of something that's making money yeah Fair well I think that's what he said and he actually said making a lot money what's Happ that's right what's happened he did say that what's happened is that the casinos have turned out to be tremendous for and again a lot of people were criticizing the move into the casinos and all but they've really turned out to be tremendous real estate in New York is starting to come back in a very slow basis I don't know how long it's going to take I think it's going to take a long time but the casinos in particular have been fantastic but you know it's just worked out for me it hasn't worked out for a lot of other people I think a lot of that has to do with an inner strength and that's what I'm going to be writing about a lot of it also though has to do with other people the loyalties of other people how you treated other people so that maybe they are loyal did it split the family no uh did it cause division between you and your brother uh it didn't cause Division I was a little disappointed with my brother I thought he would have fought harder than he did uh I was uh the opposite of my sister I have a sister who is is really a phenomenal lady and she really this is the judge the judge and she really was a you know just tremendous my other sister likewise was tremendous uh my parents have always been and I would expect them to be you know it's interesting one of my attorneys said always count on your mother now I you know I maybe took advantage of my mother I never appreciated her as much but she was really fantastic well is also said you came out in defense of Mike Tyson and you came up with these community and there was a it is said that your mother said enough Donald shut up I think that's probably the first time my mother absolutely got angry at me I really mean that I mean my mother was so crazy when I came out in defense of Mike Tyson and part of the reason I came out in 80 something my mother's 8 years old and part of the reason that um Tough Enough To Survive a mug she's tough she's tough but she's quality I mean more than tough she's quality so she said what well she wasn't uh she didn't exactly like the fact that I was defending Iron Mike but I watched what happened to Mike Tyson I watched how badly he was represented by an attorney in Washington that was charging him three or four or5 million against a local attorney the best within a 100 miles that the state hired who just ate the other man's lunch and I watched the way he did it and I watched or I heard about a girl that late in the evening knocked in his door was taken in was raped Perhaps Perhaps not I don't know I mean I don't know again I think he was very badly represented but I did see that number one she knocks late in the night number two she's dancing in a beauty contest at 8: in the morning and I saw the tapes and I see the big smile on her face and she's dancing happily at 8 in the morning and now Mike Tyson's in jail for four or five or six years uh I had a real problem with that case I had a real problem with Mike Tyson's lawyers I had a real problem with Don King I just think that he was he was really fed out to the wolves um but if in fact he raped her in that hotel room regardless of whether she came there you think that he should have been convicted and should have gone to the SL he to this day denies it I don't know that it happened and I think that uh as they said if he didn't testify he would have been exonerated totally jury said that uh Mike was arrogant he was a horrible witness from what I understand and I'm not surprised I mean I would say that generally speaking you don't put Mike on as a witness but he was a horrible witness and to get four or five or six years I think that there was just too many circumstances again she was in a beauty contest and she was dancing with a big smile on her face at 8 o00 in the morning 8 o'clock in the morning yeah but the jury sat there and they listened to her too they had an opportunity to hear her and test her credibility as they heard it and also to face question this guy's not a bad lawyer he may have handled his case bad but he is the same man that represented John hinley and others and had an extraordinary reputation in a very good Washington firm I watched Mike and I've been with Mike and I've seen him and people really take advantage of this man and and I want to tell you something I think this is one of those examples now I know we have a system of juries and I know we have a system where if you're found guilty you're guilty but somebody like me maybe who has a little bit more independent streak can say hey Mike Tyson in my opinion should really be given another break I mean the put him in jail before that he was even guilty as far as I was concerned do you believe he'll fight again and do you believe he'll ever be the heavyweight champ again I think he'll fight again I don't know that it'll be the heavyweight champ again uh in the prison that he's in uh they don't allow boxing that's a long layoff uh some of the young Fighters that are coming up in the heavyweight division are great Ali came back from the years Ali came back Ali was totally unique he was a unique man and and maybe Mike will come back I think Mike probably will be the champion again but you have some young Fighters coming up heavyweight Fighters like Linux Lewis who is absolutely phenomenal you think holfield is going to lose I think Holyfield I'm not sure if he's going to lose now but I think your next Champion is going to be Linux Lewis boy he sure did a number on his no he was incredible L tell I mean he knocked out first round wasn't it second and this gentleman went 18 or 20 rounds with well that was his claim to fame that that he survived being in the ring with lenx Lewis is probably the real thing I mean he could be the first real thing since Mike and and it'll be interesting and he's younger and he's this and that or what is your fascination uh are you an athlete I am pretty much of an athl scratch golfer or closer scratch golfer you mean like you you you do par 72 73 on good courses on good courses yeah up against good players up against good players for money or not for money well I like playing for money because it gives you an interest I mean it really does golf was something that really helped me through a period when I was really you know there's a point that which you can't push you have to sort of sit back and wait and see how the chips are fallen and dur during the adversity period during the adversity period And I'd go out on the golf course and sometimes i' out with some friends who were good golfers and you'd play and you really don't think about all of the problems of the world and the problems of everything and and again you know I like to blame myself but I mean one of the things is frankly I was doing so well and it was all so easy that I took it easy and all of a sudden I started relying on other people and I said listen you went to the Wharton School of Finance you're a genius you take care of this and you take care of that and you do this and I stopped and I got rid of people and I did it myself and since then things have been fantastic I mean it's just been 92 is the best year of your life I think 92 could be certainly one of the best years in my last because it because it really all came together for me financially speaking and and so many other ways I read all these numbers and and this is not investigative journalism here we're interested in what makes you tick and we don't have the resources or the Manpower or the time doing a nightly show to do what somebody would do if they spent six months working on a piece about you but you do have the brain help me with the numbers are you do you owe five billion dollar no at one point I guess I owed pretty close to five billion dollars but I had assets forign excess of that yeah and they passed the 1986 tax law which was just absolute stupidity by the politicians and yeah but a lot of people supported that I me nman and Baker and Bill Bradley and a lot of other people this tax reform this was the tax reform Act of all time Jack km too did he not uh I like Bill Bradley and I like a lot of the people that you mentioned and they didn't really support but Bill Bradley did very much bradle it was I have to tell you he destroyed the home building industry in the United States he destroyed the Savings and Loans in the unit absolutely what happened is incentive was taken out of the real estate industry and the industries such as Savings and Loans they based on real estate and when the values went down and they plummeted they absolutely plummeted so the savings ons had billions of dollars in real estate that now all of a sudden is is one half the billions of dollars but you know better than I do is that during that time and the Savings and Loan crisis came about because a lot of savings and loan lend a lot of money to developers that were bad loans and should not ever have been made and then all of a sudden true that's true and I I have to tell you it's 100% true but a lot of that was exacerbated a lot of loans that could have been good loans were made into bad loans because of the change because of the 1986 tax law change and what that did is all of a sudden you had resolution trust and you're paying billions and billions in order to save5 billion dollar in taxes we're now paying trillions of dollars to save Industries and save Banks and some people come along and made a ton of money because the res money and some people I see where Ron Pearlman the other day made a billion dollars or something I don't know what he made but I I frankly he's a good man I hope he did make a lot of money but it's the government's fault the government passed a very stupid law they have to put the incentive back into real estate I think they're doing it I think they're going to do it it creates here's the other side it is that people uh with great uh entrepreneurial gifts like you ex get yourself extended too far too much debt and too much extension and then when as it happen in in America there is a business cycle and when the economy goes up and goes down if you get yourself extended too far and you've got a huge Debt Service all of a sudden uh push comes to shove and and you find yourself in a very very between a rock and a hard place and it's that uh the extending yourself too far that causes so many people to come to ruin well I think you're right I mean I think I'm not going to you know not take blame for that uh I think everybody takes blame for that because anybody that does anything the only people that don't get in trouble with the people that don't do anything you play safe and no risk then there's no reward I mean when I do things I built the Taj Mahal they said a billion building how can it possibly an now it's turned out to be tremendously successful it takes time you got to be able to get over the hump Riverside South is going to be a tremendously let's stop Riverside South though I mean first of all what did you here is one of the arguments made about Riverside South that you faced a huge opposition uh on the part of the Planning Commission a lot of people who did not want to see a huge development over there you turned it around and most people give you the credit for turning around so you end up with 9 and0 how many people on the commission I don't remember 12 12 12 Z vote how did you do it and did you make so many concessions in doing it that it no longer is an economically viable project well the only way you can talk about viability is what's going to happen with the market today nothing's viable okay today nothing is viable you could have the greatest piece of land and the best location in New York and nothing's viable uh when I did the Grand Hiatt hotel I will tell you the hotel Market was in shambles everybody said Donald you're crazy and I was crazy and I did it and all of a sudden I got it zoned I started building it and by the time it opened it was a tremendous job but would it have been successful without the zoning and the abatements no it wouldn't have I mean it wouldn't but I got the Z absolutely and now what we're doing is we're asking for certain things in order to make Riverside sales successful we have tremendous popularity every civic association virtually in New York is supporting it but they're supporting it because of the concessions you made in terms of Subway in terms of how much parks and all of that kind of thing and so the question remains well the bottom line can you deliver on yeah the bottom line is if the market comes back you deliver if the market doesn't come back you don't deliver now maybe Clinton's going to come up with a housing program where you're getting a subsidized housing or something in which case you do it in a different way uh we're looking to get zoning for a piece of land that's unzoned that's employing no people that's sitting there rat rotting that's rat infested and if I get the zoning which I hope to be able to get the city desperately needs the job if the city turns around and if the economy turns around and if incentives are put back into real estate on a federal basis in a federal no no there's always ifs but there's Ben ifs in everything I ever did when I did Trump Tower on offness people said I was totally it couldn't Poss it was too big it was to expensive it was too and it turned out to be probably the most successful condominium development ever in this country and is it profitable Trump Tower yeah the most I mean it was the most successful development ever built in this country on a condominium basis uh I will tell you uh two years before I started construction people thought I was totally crazy to do it um it really worked out to be fantastic uh you can say the Taj Mahal you can say Trump plaz I mean so many of the jobs I do at the time I'm doing them are supposed to be not good and they turn out to be tremendous who makes the decision as to when you go is that a decision made by you is that a decision made by the bankers no you going to parcel those projects off I'll tell you what the the city is lucky to have the bankers that I have on my job because they've invested a lot uh they have confidence in me they have confidence in the city uh and frankly they're very lucky because otherwise it could be a war it could be a this it could be a that and that would be bad for everybody I mean I have some really great banks on this particular site and they've gone with me and they've they believe in me and and you know and I'll tell you what it's going to be it's I think ultimately the decision is going to be right and it's going to be a great you know what they say when you owe as much money as you did they become your partners but that's really a false statement because reichman owed a lot more money than me and nobody's partners with rean you know bankrupt reichman's in deep trouble are they in bankruptcy I want to be fair to them they they are in bankruptcy and frankly they're in you know just very deep trouble the banks my banks have had a great confidence in me they know I'm good they know I do what the best and they also know that I'm honest and but did they have a choice oh absolutely they had a lot of money they they would have were assets there to get their loan back I'm not saying I would have been easy had the other route gone but I will tell you this I will tell you this they absolutely had a choice and they could have gone a different route and what would what's the route they could have gone well it could have been a contentious route rather than working and you know working with me etc etc it could have been a contentious route and that would have been bad for me would have been bad for them they could have put you up against the wall and you OST this money you can't pay it back we call the tune they could have done that and I think if they did that it would have been bad for everybody including them and I think they understood that but more importantly see bad them because they would have lost money uh very much I think so I think so I found out a couple of things about Banks first of all I find the Banks to be very very underrated in terms of the intelligence level the whole thing I mean I have worked with the banks now very closely for a period of two years and these guys have done a fantastic job at least as far as my stuff is concern uh I've done I've done great for them they've done great for me and my thing is back I mean I believe that in 6 months in 12 months I may be stronger than I was two years ago or three years ago I think I will be stronger than I was two or three years ago I would like to see an uptick in the market I think you're going to have an up why do you think you'll be stronger I mean now that you clearly have given up Equity very little Equity what have I given up you know the story is that I gave up Equity what have I given up I sold the shuttle for a lot of money but well was it was that a you made more money than you sold it for more money than you paid for or not no no no I tell you what if you sold it for a lot of money but didn't sell but sold it for less than you paid for it's not no I didn't reduce for Not For Less I reduced my debt by hundreds of millions of dollars by the sale of the shuttle and work you sold it for less than you paid for no I didn't I actually sold it probably for more than I paid for it but it's a very complex formula that if you sit down with a pencil and paper we can maybe figure it out someday in 5 years because it's a long-term deal we don't want to bore everybody with it but I sold the shutt I got rid of a tremendous amount of debt I got rid of a lot of personal guarantees the Taj Mahal I personal guarantees are unsecured loans from friends or what or no personal guarantees meaning personal guarantees to Banks where I personally guarantee a piece of a loan um basically uh if you take the Atlantic City properties I have up to 80% of the Taj Mahal it's the things making a fortune now I have is it making a fortune stay with me and ask this question is it making a fortune or is it generating a fortune in Revenue but it has a Fortune Plus in expenses no it has a big fortune in expenses it's run first class it's a fourstar that's a point then how much of this in the end is net net cash flow how much is it simply that a lot of money is flowing in but also at the other door is a lot of money going the other way I mean I'll give you an example uh we'll have probably $80 million in interest I think the tou could have a cash flow of maybe 30 to $40 million after debt that's some cash flow now that's a great cash flow now what do I do with it I do with the Westside yards I do the Riverside South I do other things but the Taj mahals turned out very successfully Trump Plaza I Own 100% % of trump pla you know there's this mis Noma that I sold I this I that I sold very little I mean when you think of it I so why didn't would your friend Greenberg from bear Stern say he used to Own 100% of of assets that were worth nothing now he owns 50% of things that are making a lot of money well what happened in Atlantic City difference well there is a difference and I own 50% of the castle but when I say I own 50% I'm also paying much less interest because I sold 50% to bond holders right and in return for that I got a reduction Deb a reduction of this and a reduction in interest so it's making a lot more money in Trump Plaza's case in Atlantic City I Own 100% of it and that is turning out to be fantastic take your on all this by the way Charlie I have to tell you because of the fact and the big differences and that's why you see in all the casino things because of the fact they want to see you as a winner because if you're a winner it means that they're a winner well they don't want to see me as a winner actually because I have to tell you when when things started going bad I was on the cover but instead of my hands being up I had my chin down okay so nobody wants to see me be a let me just stay with that image for second was it embarrassing for you uh you know they say about you they took his toys away they took his yacht away they took his nobody took it away I sold my yeah but I mean the was did the banks put you on an allowance or not I mean help us understand how bad it got for you and whether you were embarrassed and whether you said wow well when you say embarrassed I didn't love waking up in the morning walking out but help us understand that me you were a guy who was the big winner and all of a sudden the papers fund a stories that saying Trump in trouble Trump Golden Boy no longer has midest touch right you know I'll tell you what the hardest part is um and the hardest thing about life to understand in baseball if you get 15 runs in the first inning and you don't get any more runs you still have 15 runs at the end of the game well depends on what the other guy does well no but generally speaking you're going to win that game okay you know it's as sad as it is to say but you're going to win that game you get 15 minutes it's pretty well over that's the Atlanta Braves okay I mean we've seen some examples but anyway in in life uh I was 15 and0 and then I had one very bad year now I had a bad year maybe it was my fault because hey it was a lot of people's fault it was also the government's fault it was a lot of people's take some responsibility absolutely have because I'd be a fool if I didn't but I have to tell you a lot of smart people are in real deep trouble right now and I'm not and a lot of people really smart people are dead they're gone they're buried they're over the history and one more time why are they dead buried gone history and you are alive well and as they say before I explain that before I explain that I just want to say that you have 15 great years you have one bad year and people judge you by your last thing you're only as good as your last thing you're only as good as your last article or what you've done lately and that's it I mean you take a guy like Harry Helms mean the man had 50 great years then unfortunately he married Leona I mean this was like a major mistake here we go again he marries Lona poor Harry I feel so sorry if you're Harry get rid of her just leave her alone find a new woman if you can but I'll tell you what he marries lyanna so now all of a sudden he has a couple of bad years to put mildly bad years I mean we're talking about major they don't say the score is 50 to2 no they don't say the score is 50 to2 as far as they're concerned Harry is like this major failure and that's a shame because that's not the way life should work it should be 50 to two that's a pretty good record well I had 15 great then I had the one bad year and one and a half real bad years where I had a fight I mean it was a struggle it was a survival it was surviving at the top I wrote the book it was surviving at the top uh and it wasn't easy and it wasn't pleasant and did you ever think you'd lose did you ever lose confidence did you ever say no I may not get out of this no not once not once and the reason I didn't say it is because I had to go back and do it myself you see I built what I built myself and I did it by working long hours and working hard and working smart more importantly than anything else is by using my own brain and there was a point where I was making so much so fast and it was so easy that I almost got bored and it's true and I write about this I mean I'm writing about this it's it's really been an experience I should believe you here saying in a way this was good because it gave me a chance to test myself the adversity was good it put me back and made me leaner and hungry again because everything was at stake and therefore I had to pay attention well I think I'll look at it in the future as being good uh and you know when it was happening I had no choice I just had to do it and I did it myself and all of a sudden I I'll give you an example Riverside South I've had Riverside South for five years I've had the land for 5 years I went through a succession of Executives that were in charge of Riverside South a year and a half ago I took it over myself and as you say I got a 12 to nothing vote and you were told that I sort of did it myself I did do it myself read you okay I mean you can't believe everything you read but but I did do it largely by myself with a group of people but I I really spearheaded something that's turned out to be I think going to be a great thing um I really went back to work and I really did things myself and I think that's why I survived and I think maybe who knows who knows point out a couple of other things here at this time you lost during this period three key Executives right who died in a helicopter crash and Friends uh who were running and then you went through some Executives after that and finally put your lawyer in charge down there right who was done a great job you you had a divorce uh that was you were the fair to say people were laughing at you about this divorce and they we were amused in the tbls I was living in New York at the time but we were amused by it but at the same time some people said enough of this I'm tired of read kind stff I mean I couldn't help but it was but you were feeding the columnist too I wasn't feeding I mean you had no conversations with all these people you know it wasn't a it wasn't a feed it was a frenzy I have to tell you and I wasn't feeding anybody they were feeding themselves they were making up stories I called up one of the top people in one of the New York tabloids and I said hey look this is ridiculous this story didn't happen don't put it in he said I know it didn't happen but Donald was selling papers like crazy and they knew it before the story was written they put it in anyway and I think for 28 days in a row I mean you know we talk about Woody Allen was a big story this this thing just swamped everything okay this swamped everything this was the biggest of the big it was crazy it was out of control and I guess it had all the elements of a soap opera did it bring any satisfaction to you that during this adversity you were able to get out of the marriage uh at a time perhaps you gave up a lot less money than you might have imagined you would do at another time come on tell me the truth I mean a lot of there were those people that say that I I did this purposely in order to get out of no but there are those who said that you use that adversity as a time to say you know it may not ever get any better so you better you know people were saying you better make your deal now yeah uh I was I was very happy to pay what I paid her I mean this was what I was supposed to pay her this is what I did pay her because she if if anything happened a year ago where I went down the tubes where I really would have ended up with nothing she and the children would always have been taken care of and that was very important to me I mean at the time don't forget I was being sued for two billion at one point by her by her right uh and that was going to be a nasty contentious suit and frankly had I had I not had I not had a glitch I would probably not be on this program right now I'd be at divorce court if if you hadn't had you hadn't been down if you hadn't bottomed out and put some pressure on her and her it wasn't a question of pressure I mean there was a point where she probably felt I wasn't going to make it I mean there was a point where a lot of people felt I wasn't going to make it except me I really felt I was were you telling her differently that maybe were anybody saying I wasn't telling her anything all she had to do is read the New York Times On The Wall Street Journal I mean they were making these dire predictions about me and others but I guess I got more print than anybody else that's the negative I mean the good is when you're doing well and they do that the bad is when you're doing bad they do it the other way all right and they did did it the other way times 10 so what happened is had I not had I not been involved in a glitch I don't believe that we would be here right now I would be studying for tomorrow's examination before trial okay and what happened duked it out in a lawsuit well I think I think if probably would have gone further than she did but it got so bad and the stories began getting so bad that she said well I better take you know what I'm entitled to according to the contract that we had signed and she ended up taking the $10 million plus the this plus the that and it's probably a package of 20 or $25 million and I think she was smart in doing it in the end I think her lawyers were horrendous I think she was horribly represented she could have gotten a lot more money earlier if she had decent lawyers but she had lawyers meaning what she could have gotten a lot more money ear at an earlier stage been more amable to giving more money in a settlement I offered more money than she ended up getting but uh Ivana who is somebody that I'll always love is she decided in her great wisdom to hire these characters that were just looking for Fame and Fortune for themselves in my opin opinion and they did a bad job for it they really did and my folks did a great job for me I had a a wonderful lawyer who did a great job for me and in the end though I'm I'm saddened by it because I would have preferred the initial deal with Iana he was very very poorly represented in this divorce action you must have some sensitivity though for a woman um in what she might be going through I mean you seem all powerful there and she doesn't know and she has to lean on the advice that she gets and you know people are saying this guy's got a lot tons of money and yeah but she was leaning on the Wall Street Journal I mean you know when when the bad stories started coming out she was believing those stories and she should have believed those stories I'm not even saying the stories were wrong you know I've I've done things but I'm not saying those stories at the time were wrong the economy was atrocious and and you know the business was bad and the real estate business was horrendous and the casino business was bad and we're opening up the Taj Mong in the middle of a war right okay you know I mean I'm opening the largest building in the world people were not flooding Atlantic City at that time no I mean everyone's sitting home watching the war and also so she's reading about you and another woman I can't be pleasing she's reading and I never left for another woman I mean this is one of the great misconceptions I left because I got tired of the balls and the tired of the ballroom gowns and all the nonsense that what does that well I'm just one that doesn't necessarily believe you know they call them the so-called charity events but the people that have these charity events are probably the least charitable people I've ever met and they have them for their own you know vilification they have them for their own whatever it is they have them for their own and they want the press and they want the nonsense and I care if it generates a lot of money for charity uh I'm not sure that it does I'm really not sure that it does I mean I look at some of them and I look at the expense and I look at the Magnificent table settings at the Plaza Hotel and which I'm very happy about but at the Plaza Hotel and all the other places and and in the end I don't think they make a hell of a lot for charity and then I look at United Way where the man's paid you know virtually millions of dollars to run United Way and and I look at what happens in Charities I I study I study Charities and there are very few well-run Charities so you got tired of the gown and the ball and all that I got tired of the scene and I knew the scene and I knew the people and some of the people I like in all fairness and some of the people I don't like they're vicious breed you know someone listened to that would just hear you say that say that's not what happened this was a guy who was on top of the world and and he uh he wanted to have his cake and eat it too he wanted to be out and wanted out because he wanted to date a lot of young attractive women who viewed him as a giant catch uh an interesting man to be with hey I'm out now and it's great I have to tell you I really like it I think it's great I've never had a better time tell me what's great about but I just like it I mean for whatever it is maybe I shouldn't like it fre the independ a freedom it's a freedom I can do what I want I can be with who I want to be with uh I really like it and I would tell you if I didn't because and by the way I think at a certain point I won't like it I'll get tired certain point you'll say I want to settle down with one person at a certain point I think I'll say that I think I'll say that very strongly but you know at this point I do like it I had a uh a fabulous wife in many respects great kids uh fantastic children great children I love them and so therefore that was so worthwhile um I had another friend later who was also fantastic for a fairly long period of time and I just didn't want to settle down I mean I didn't want to get married I didn't want to marry Mara uh and I didn't want to settle down and I'm just not ready for it it's just not me I mean it's not right now at some point is that what kill that relationship thing well a lot of things perhaps killed it but I would say that probably that's the predominant thing I just I was very antsy I didn't want to settle and of course don't forget you know I was I'm busy I'm doing a lot of different things and I love doing it I'm I'm so happy now you know it's I I enjoy getting up and going out to the wars and the wars are now becoming battles and it's just worked out well but you can't devote lots of time to a relationship when you're going through this there is also said in this piece by uh Julie B that that you love the Limelight and that you seek in the public and the Public's agulation something that the mirror of that is somehow important confirming um true I don't think so I think that I loved it at one point I think I've gotten used to it I think I do well in it well I see I look at it differently it's great for my business I mean the fact is that my casinos are up more than as you know my casinos are up more than any casinos in the United States uh we're up number one two and three in increases in Atlantic City number one two and three every month but are they at the same time and I don't want to hammer at this question at the same time the most profitable it's one thing to be up in revenue and you're saying they're up in Revenue you're not necessarily saying that they are the most profitable Taj Mahal has the largest gross operating profit of any casino in Atlantic City by far by far not even it's not even so when you're factoring expensive it has the gross yeah well well it also has the biggest gross I mean it's got the biggest gross but it's got the largest gross operating profit in Atlantic City but what's happening is a lot of people now I will say this when when people thought I was going down they sort of deserted me and I'm you know this is not the way it should be in life tell me who deserted you no no no I'm I'm I'm talking about customers I'm not only talking about you know local friends this that uh when when the customers the the Taj Mahal customer when the customers the Cino customers even the condominium buyer customer when they thought I was going down for the count they really did desert me I have to say now that they see him doing well again now that they see him back now that they see all these crazy magazine covers I will tell you one of the reason reasons that my casinos are up so much more is that they're all coming back but it are you saying that therefore it makes sense for you to promote this notion I mean look at this picture here I mean you like this isn't he a handome you like this don't you no I I don't but is it good for you to promote that because it says Donald is back and and all of this stuff about scrambles off the canvas in a sense is good for business so therefore you're promoting that image you want people to believe that you're back I mean as an example it's late in the evening right now it's not that you're a fantastic guy and we did this down in New Orleans but in New Orleans was during the afternoon it was really much more pleasant right now it's late in the evening and here we are doing an interview it happens heck of an interview it is it I hope we're going to have a good time I mean I hope you get good ratings too anything for you too exactly but I'll tell you what it happens to be goad that's right it happens to be great for business I mean the fact that it's coming back now it would be nice if it were the other way if you have problems it wouldn't it be nice if everyone but apart from all that come on ego I haven't ego of course you do I've never met a successful person nor have I nor have I people dri about I mean Mother Teresa has an ego absolutely you know so bigger than you would ever believe I've never had the pleasure but nevertheless I mean part of it you love the linelight you love beyond the business and what it does and the whole sense of the Trump image you like it you like the fact that there's security guys coming ahead of you and sweeping behind you and there's this agulation and and women want to be with you and wherever you go they're flash bubs and and all of this kind of thing you like it I don't mind it I don't mind it mind it or Rel I'll tell you what I used to like it more I still like it uh I probably would miss it if it weren't here I probably would no I probably would because you gr accustomed to it as part of your maybe I I have G to you know it it's been sort of wild and but I also think it's great for business I mean it is great for the casino business it's great for the condominium business it's great hey they just came out with a report the Cen report the Trump apartments in New York sell for more on a square foot basis which is really the than any apartments in New York by far it's not even close a lot of that a lot of that is all of this nonsense let me talk about people you ought to say sorry to uh if there might be one is and and I'm talking one I rais this person first that guy in Philadelphia you know who they say you got fired you remember the guy who did the Stocker say so he did great I mean he came out he did well and now he's he's my biggest champion okay but he's the one but you got him fired you can't you got to look back I can't help that his friend fired him if they oh no come on did they fire him because of a call from you I have no idea okay really I have you for that I mean but one man may have lost a job because you leaned on his because he's a tough guy he's a Savvy guy he's come out great he's a stock analyst and he's now my biggest champion he's saying it's the greatest comeback in fact he used the word brilliant I hate to tell you this what's his name his name is Marvin Roth that's right he he was a great critic of me and now he's saying that this was one of the most brilliant things you did him a favor by getting him fired I think in the in the long run I think he's probably doing better now so you did him a favor that's so indirectly I did him I wasn't looking to do him a favor but I think indirect but don't you regret that I mean you know this guy lose his job no because that's life you can't look back I don't like look back no regrets then I mean there's no one that you'd sayet if I had it to do again would I have done things differently yes what would you have done differently um I probably instead of stopping with the sale of the St meritz where I sold and I made a lot of money I probably would have sold some other things um and that I think I would have treated people differently I think that you know some of the people that were most loyal to me are people that I didn't think would be some of the people that were least loyal to me are people that I think I would have treated them differently I think I would have treated different groups differently I would have wiped the floor with the guys that weren't loyal which I will now do which is great you know I love getting even with people but I will I you love getting even absolutely you don't believe you don't believe in the I the ey you do I know you well enough I think you do but anyway but but tell me I mean you you're going to get even with some people because if given the opportunity if given the opportunity I will get even with some people people that were disloyal to me I mean I had a group of people that were disloyal but how do you define disloyalty they didn't come to my Aid what did they do turn their back on you no but they didn't do small things that would have helped they didn't do large give me one example well I had a one man who who frankly was on the board of a company that I was selling and he it was a tremendous sale for me it was a great sale was would have been a very helpful sale and it ended up going through but one of the things is that I had to take shuttle no this was a different company it doesn't matter which company and uh it was a great thing for me but one of the things is I had clear I had to clear the board now I only put him on that board because of the fact I thought I was doing him a favor he got some money by being a board member etc etc he contributed nothing when it came time I have five board members when it came time to be to to removing the slate and getting all my people Everyone said I'm leaving Steve balar C Freeman everyone left except this one particular person said I don't want to leave he told my people I don't want to leave well when I heard about it I went nuts and I believe bled him and all of a sudden he left but I consider that a great Act of disloyalty I put him on that board now he did leave I mean he did leave it's a little like Andrew I mean Andrew ended up in favor of Riverside South but for all I had done I had never asked him for anything this is a great job this is a job that he should have been in favor he had to do a poll in order to find out whether or not he was going to support yeah but how can you get even with Andy Stein I mean his gu it's not a question of getting even I I can certainly be disappointed in certain people and I was very disappointed yeah but you've already said an eye for an eye I mean hit you you're going to hit him back well I might I might how could you hit him back we'll say hey time will tell I guess right are you looking for the opportunity no I'm not looking I'm I'm just really so disappointed in him I'm disappointed in other people and I was disappointed I was disappointed in this one man that didn't want to get off the board now he got off okay but that's he got off so no no he got off he got off after being hit over the head with a cannon okay what was the cannon the cannon was me and he ended up what was the threat though I mean did you blast him in the paper and that was enough or did you say the threat was threat was just sort of a just a strong threat I mean he would have gone through a lot of hell if he didn't get off and then he gets off and he acts like he does me a favor he gets off okay he got off maybe out of fear you owe Donald because I'm getting off the board yeah and and you know it was like one of the great jokes of the century but it ended up and he got off and the deal went through but that doesn't mean I have to love this particular guy it doesn't mean I have to love him I want somebody that's loyal from the beginning not somebody that's loyal because they're afraid or because they're this or because they're that and I've had a lot of instances like that but but and I think you know and again I think the new book and I don't know why I'm promoting a book that's not going to come out for three or four months I mean I don't want to waste a lot of time but I think that the most interesting aspect that's right we'll do it when you go National we'll do that for the national forget the local stuff but no no the local stuff is important without that the local stuff you don't do the Second Step exactly but the truth is I think the most interesting aspect of that book is the Loyalty uh area the Loyalty chapters I think now you you measure loyalty in terms of your own relationship with Roy con you feel like that Roy you stuck by by Roy cone and that's you showed your stripes by doing that well I don't think I showed my stripes I think you see I'm so loyal to people maybe I'm loyal to a fault but I'm so loyal to people that when somebody's slightly disloyal to me I look upon it as a great Act of horror who are you going to support for mayor well I think David dinkin I have to tell you has done a real good comeback you know you talk about comebacks David dinkin has done one hell of a comeback in the last uh in the last 6 months and you saw what happened in Los Angeles and you saw what happened people really like the man I I mean I've been with him and I've watched him and he has really become a very popular guy and I think he's going to be very hard to beat in a lot of ways now I have to tell you that a year and a half ago everybody nobody want to run against George Bush it took a man from Arkansas who was the only one you know virtually one of the few people that wanted to run because George Bush was unbeatable there was no way you could beat this guy and he turned out to he just ran it looked like David inin can possibly win re-election a year ago and then you had a lot of other things and now he's in a much better position than he's done a great come you support him over Giuliani well I'm not I'm not announcing who I'm supporting and I don't think it's even relevant I just think that dkin has really done a great job in terms of coming back and I also think he's a great human being I think he's a very F did he help you on the Planning Commission uh he helped me but he was tough he was strong he was he was very Community oriented he was very much for the people in that sense but when he gave me his word that he would now support the job he really lived up to that word there was also a guy on the political scene you year named Ross perau a billionaire You' would you once a billionaire uh I I was I don't know I was projected as being I know you were but we never can't tell about those numbers you you you you were worth couple because I saw that at least 900 million but did you actually have a net up to the highest of two what did you have yourself up to I don't know I had myself up to maybe what I have right now I don't know nobody knows what I'm worth what's what's the Taj Mahal worth what's what's the west side I don't I have no idea what I'm with who was it used to say about the plaza you said this is a this is a trophy therefore it's it's a different place if it's a trophy if it's the best and unique then people pay a premium for the best and unique but people don't buy trophies so much anymore that's true 1988 trophies were great 1990 you you pay too much for that trophy probably no I'll tell you what when I bought the plaza I was offered a huge profit a year after and brilliantly I decided not to take that profit okay who sold it to you was it the the basses on that it was a Consortium of people the bass were inv and I have to tell you the truthfully I'm very happy with my purchase of The Plaza Hotel I think it's working out fantastically I think it's going to work out you know adversity is a very funny thing when you have adversity it's not it's it's like in golf it's like in sports everybody it's a question of how many bad shots do you hit not so many good shots but how many bad shot minimize your bad shots you really have to it's it's not a question of getting because everybody's going to get in trouble it's a question of how do you get out of trouble I think the Plaza Hotel it's going to turn out to be a great deal for me I mean it's already turning out to be a great deal for me but I think it's going to be great that that sporting Meer may be a that sporting metaphor may be correct because in golf if you were playing and you got to go over the water to reach the green sometimes you don't make it over the water sometimes you don't and then and then it can put youy land but hey but that's not where I am although I could have been you're not in bogy land well but are you back to par you're not even back to par you're at least B I think no I think again and I tell you this and I make this prediction I think in six months I'll be stronger than I was three or four years ago whatever might be that's a birdie I believe what I did is I restructured things in the early '90s and the bad times and and now it's turning out to be very good I believe that I'll be stronger than I was two years ago but who knows I mean let's see what happens let's see what happens with the economy let's see what happens with the Ross perau had a$3 billion was willing to spend it and got something I haven't seen the last tally maybe 17 18% of the vote 19% of the vote uh there was a time in which you wanted to tease America that you might be want to run for president well people said that I never did but people said that you didn't go to New Hampshire to test the water you theones of Roger Stone say you know this is an interesting idea let's go up and see what we can do I really went to New Hampshire because they wanted me to go to New Hampshire and they wanted you knew that your appearance there would generate I certainly did generate talk and you knew that your would didn't for that reason Charlie I didn't do it for that reason and I had no idea how much talk would be generated and I had no intention of running for president uh and I wouldn't have an intention of running for president I will say this Ross perau U he made some Monumental mistakes had he not dropped out of the election had he not make the gaffs about you know the Watch Dogs and the guard dogs and everybody coming at the house and you know three or four if he didn't have three or four bad days and they were real bad days he could have conceivably won this crazy election you'll get some political people who are smarter than you and I both about politics will say the same thing oh I believe that he could have made it a very competitive race possibly but at the same time whatever it is that made him generate $2 billion which enabled him to do as well as he did in part in part he was very effective in the debates and that had nothing to do with how much money he had uh at the same time maybe you know you have to take the good with the bad and part of the personality makeup that have Mak him $2 billion also made him the way he is about sort of the paranoia about well the paranoia maybe created some of the money but it's not necessarily good or the drive that creates both see one of the problems with politics and politicians is that you really can't have done very much wrong and that means you can't have done very much because if you're doing a lot hey I do a lot of things and most of them turn out good but some of them have to turn out bad and it's you know they they'll hit you with a little bad and it makes it a little bit more difficult Franklin Roosevelt I think one said Arthur slesinger was here the other night and I I'm not sure he said this but I think that uh FDR once said I'm proud of all my enemies I've earned them what enemies are you proud of well I'm proud of having a guy like Ed cotch as an enemy because I think he's a major loser uh he did a lousy job as mayor he's a he's a promoter he's he very much of a promoter he did not do a good job as a mayor he got very upset because after eight years of trying to build the wman skating rink I was able to do it in four months for about one tenth the money that they spent and instead of thanking me he took great umbrage to the fact that I was able to do this and I just wanted to have my kids go I skating in Central Park I got tired of watching these people sitting on their I'm not allowed to say asses in this program so of course I won't say but I got tired of watching these people just sitting down and not working and not doing it right and having no planning and no leadership and no so instead of thanking me and saying Donal was a great job he went around saying well I think we could have done it if we this if we that he was not so Ed I think he's just what other enemy are you proud of um I'm not proud of enemies I'd like to have you know I'm the kind of guy that has great friends and great enemies and and somehow uh but I'm not proud of is your father still the seminal inuence in your life well I have a great father I have a wonderful father he's he's somebody I love very much I wouldn't say he is I'd say my mother and father maybe is a together or yeah together because I have I have just what way did they influence you differently well they're very different people my father's a very business oriented guy but a very good man I mean if somebody came up to my father on the street and said I need $100 I need $200 and my father is the softest touch when it comes to people that really are in trouble he's really a a very great humanitarian in that sense but he's a strong man he's a people would think of him as being cold but he's not cold at all my mother is openly warm I mean she's just a wonderful except when it comes to Mike Tyson except when it came to Mike Tyson it took 40 years and finally she came out and she said something but she uh she's a fabulous she made you like yourself when you were growing up I mean her love reinforced your sense of self she really did I mean she's a she's some woman Greenberg again in this New York Magazine article said about you he said if Donald gives you his word it's good as gold however he said and he said that sometimes I have a bad memory that that leaves you wide open to you know it leaves you wide open to the fact that and I have a photographic memory that's problem exactly I it raises this question can you trust what Donald really says because his memory may be short yeah now I think he meant that jokingly he's a great friend and he's a great gentleman and I think you meant that Jo I think but perhaps he's had some bad experiences I on um what brings you the greatest satisfaction now is it conquering adversity or is it something else well I used to think just continued success but I got bored by it yeah enough and enough is not enough enough enough and and then uh I really think that right now I'm just really proud with the way I've handled things I really think that I've handled things well from a business standpoint and somebody who steps forward and says you know this is just Donald's hype he's a giant promoter he hasn't come back I mean times have turned a little bit around you sold off some assets but it's not the great comeback that he believes it is well all they have to do I mean all they have to do is look at the numbers I mean you look at the numbers in the casino journals and you look at the numbers and you know it's been a tremendous comeback and I'm not saying I'm as far back as I will be in 6 months I mean I'm I'm really I'm back and I'm I'm not in any trouble and I'm doing well and I'm making money money is a scorecard for me you know money is not as important as people would think it would be to a guy like me but it is a scorecard and you know I've really so what is the most important thing to a guy like you I think the way I've survived the quality in which I've lived under the survival mode the the image I've portrayed during the survival period I mean people haven't seen me go into a corner and put my thumb in my mouth and say I give up I give up I mean this kid doesn't give up and some people did give up I have to tell you Charlie and and you know they're not you're not going to be doing interviews with them but some people did give up many people gave up and many tough smart Killers gave up they just gave up they said I can't do it anymore so I think the way in which I survived was very important to me art of the comeback soon to be out what you going to be out next beginning of 19 mon you're writing this alone I'm doing this one alone because I really want to get my flavor I've had two wonderful writers my other books were both number one bestsellers I'm doing this alone I want to get my own flavor it's really become somewhat of a passion because I think people are going to learn a lot from it good to have you have a good time thank very much thank you Donald Trump is back thank you for joining us tonight Monday we'll talk with World Series hero Dave Winfield Trump would like to hear that also a lot of other people will be here uh with taping next week an hour with um Charlie coral one of my friends from North Carolina a lot more interesed things coming up see you Monday for