WTF is George R. R. Martin's DEAL???

oysters clams and cockos welcome back for another helping of oysters clams and cockos presented by bowan media I am Ross bowan here with Barrett Dudley fresh off his honeymoon and we're going to be talking about uh several different things today Barrett we're going to start off with a little George RR Martin and then later you watched a couple of movies I did plane movies plane movies on your travels everybody knows that plane movies are the best um you are you're sequestered you know you can't you can't go anywhere you just get you're just locked in you've got somebody bringing you uh refreshing beverages you know it's a maybe some peanuts maybe some peanuts it's a lot like being at at the Alamo Draft House um you knowre just massive screen there in front of you it's the way movies were intended to be watched that's what I always say um and I watch two movies that I would put on opposite sides of the uh the quality Spectrum okay um but I've got thoughts I've got thoughts on on both so yeah I guess we have to bury the lead furiosa Mad Max furiosa and Madam web Madam web correct me if I'm wrong Madam web is the one with Madame Webb stars Dakota Johnson okay and has a what I would call a very supporting role from Sydney for Sydney Sween from the Sween dog from from from all Sween yeah okay yeah and this and it got critically panned pretty hard um yeah there was a very weird Dakota Johnson publicity tour where she was just decota Johnson johnsoning all over the place and being really weird and basically like panning the movie herself oh good but that was also that was also like a reaction to the reception of the film okay where where and yes to say that it was critically panned is a is an understatement many people were talking about this as the worst movie of all time things of that nature well I look forward to your thoughts but let's start off with another artist who has uh uh decided to pan his own work yes yes yes the Man known as germ George R Martin and in this discussion there are going to be some House of the Dragon season 2 spoilers so if you are somehow here with us on oysters clams and cockal today which I find unlikely yeah and you haven't seen House of the Dragon season 2 probably skip this part of the episode uh check out the time stamps in the description to skip forward to the next conversation but that would be hilarious if we had listeners that that that only listen to to us of Game of Thrones West yeah that would be yeah that' be so last week uh there's got to be one August 30th George R Martin updates his blog which is like I think it's called like not a blog.com or something he has a old school internet blog GM does where he likes to throw up his thoughts and give little updates and tidbits about his life none of which uh helps any of us who are still waiting for the final book or final two books in The Game of Thrones uh series but in his August 30th post he said I do not look forward to other posts I need to write about everything that's gone wrong with House of the Dragon but I need to do that too and I will not today though today is Zozobra day when we turn away from Gloom some kind of New Mexico uh festival or something if I understand yeah shout shouts to zobora yeah everybody everybody knows zobora now the internet went into about this because not only it look it's there's a lot to unpack here but first I find it odd to pre- promote or hype up a later blog post in which you are going to hate on a show that you are executive producing based on a novel of your uh writing yeah that's a weird move it's a strange move now I've I've more and more over the past couple years I get the impression that Geor J Martin likes attention uhhuh he likes the celebrity and the I think he just likes people reading his blog like he just really wants people to stay locked in on on him right so like yeah he said things leading up to season 2 that sort of uh furthered that impression that I have of him but this is the kind of thing where I'm like dude what he didn't even lay out his thoughts in this post he's just like a later blog he teased he teased will contain and I quote everything that's gone wrong wrong with House of the Dragon which just seems very negative right so everybody's up in arms like what's he going to say here we go again you know obviously he wasn't happen happy with the way that uh Game of Thrones went the last couple few seasons there and he was very outspoken about that um several days pass and then yesterday I guess it was only like two or three days passed which the internet again it just kind of like got to go viral everywhere that George was going to drop a bomb on House of the Dragon season 2 and then yesterday September 3rd he posts finally the aforementioned blog where he he is my understanding for one he has already deleted it okay so if you go to his blog now you will not find any of the comments that are being discussed on all of the entertainment websites but for two it seems like it was mostly complaints made about the blood and cheese sequence where you know little Jaris the heir to the Iron Throne gets his head sought off and if you remember when we obviously you and I are not book readers we did not read Fire and Blood but we were aware of the complaints made about this particular sequence with with um blood and cheese there there yes and the way it unfolds in that room with Helena and how it was much more brutal in the books and like there's a third child in the books that's not even included in the House of the Dragon Series yeah we our our ears were kind of pricked about this to begin with because the the the character that is eliminated from from show world wasted from TV show world is uh is a male son right so it does color the death of Jaris because there's still an air in in in the in the books when Jaris is brutally murdered now GM also has an issue with with with how this all played out and the reduction of this of this child uh he you know he says it like makes the Sophie's Choice thing not as not as important and then he doesn't like how uh how Helena offers like a piece of jewelry instead of her own life um he thinks that the blood and cheese in the book are like much cruler and much more you know like the whole thing is like more visceral and darker and awful and and blah blah blah but like what what initially had us kind of you know on alert is that they dropped this this malor character or whatever the little kid's name is yeah it's a 2-year-old named meor and so when Jaris dies like the immediate next Air is aent instead of this other small child right so you know that that's certainly a change from the books one that I think makes the show potentially more interesting but George has a massive problem with this because as he says and this is this is the this is these are phrases that he's used before he warned uh the the Benny off and Weiss about the same thing is that they're they're changing the butterfly wings right they they you change one thing and that has a butterfly effect and and ripples throughout the course the the course of the rest of the um the the the history the series and you have to change other things and and all of that and uh yeah dude I first I just want to say GM kind of stinks man this D I don't care dude like that's that's what it's frustrating so just to be clear it's in the book there are three kids yes blood and cheese tell her pick a kid yeah because we're taking one yes and she picks malor right to spare the Twins jarus and jiara and they're like oops gotcha and then they saw off Jar's head instead or or whatever I'm not sure if they saw his head off maybe that was a show thing only but the point is it's much more dramatic in the book and that Helena tries to offer for her own life to save her child uh in the show she tries to bribe them but I don't even really remember her attempting to bribe them um but it's been described widely as a much more brutal Sophie's choice right type of situation and yeah there was kind of an uproar from book readers when this happened and we I personally pretty much brushed it off like this doesn't sound like that big of a deal in reading the excerpts from George's blog which is at Georg RR martin.com and then you click the not a Blog tab sorry um again you won't find these excerpts on his blog anymore which I also find curious that's very interesting clearly HBO was like dude you have a contract you cannot go out bashing the show you're an executive producer on the show we're paying you and you signed a contract and you cannot do this yeah which I [ __ ] how how did how in the three four days that passed between him threatening to put up the blog and putting up the blog did they not fix this Pro probably because everybody was on holiday for Labor Day weekend yeah well it just it's just frustra like you'll see in his blog post he's like bitching about he's like uh yeah and I don't I don't think they knew how how deep he was going to go because he really like and and and that's what's so upsetting it's very like it's look dude finish the books or shut the [ __ ] up because you you're you're losing all of your credibility you you you lose your right to complain when you yourself like you haven't finished them you haven't delivered them in a satisfying way you don't he he for me he doesn't have a leg to stand on because he created this world and then just abandon it because he knows that this is impossible to finish as well and so like like it's it's real nice to sit up from his you know from the cushy saddle on his high horse and be like well I warned Ryan about getting rid of this character and he told me that the character would be born late in season 2 or maybe early season 3 well now I come to find out that he's he's not even doing that character he's not doing him yeah like the quotes are so lame it's just it's dude like what I argued against it for all these reasons this is what happens in adaptations like things change budg budgets get cut like it's it's just it's really really annoying for him to just like like basically backseat Drive Monday Morning Quarterback do all of these types of things that are undermining the show yeah I'm sure that the reason the blog post does not is not is not up right now is because HBO promptly set him a SE promptly sent him a cease and desist like this this is the thing that it's like it's a combination of all these things yes everything you're saying I agree with but also the pre-promotion of the hate and then putting up the hate and then the hate being pretty lame like I quote I did not argue long or with much heat however the change weakened the sequence I felt but only a bit then is this worth it is this worth it making us have this conversation I I I had to be careful scrolling through Hollywood reporters coverage of of the post because he does Apparently after the blood and cheese thing he does go on to to talk about some other things that were eliminated or changed from the book that will be different now in seasons 3 and four um that that he apparently mentions an outline from condle that even like talks about some character death uh and he doesn't like how that's being changed and going down uh so that so there's there's just he he it's it's it sounds like it led with the blood and cheese thing and and like the first kind of domino to fall was this was the elimination of the melor character and then he continues on with more more of these complaints about these characters changing and their paths being changed or them being removed from the story will continue to have these Butterfly Effects reminding him of the whole game of thrones scenario yada yada yada and he's just like he's he's now like he like picks his bone with the uh with with the blood and the cheese thing and then now he's like pre he's preing Seasons three and and four he's he's like getting out ahead of of of uh of of possible complaints and that's just it's it's annoying man like he even he justifies his complaints on the blood and cheese Thing by saying and most book readers seem to agree with me you know like oh the the internet trolls sure did hate it guess they were right you I this is just well it's also he's just like oh I was really busy when the show was on the back half of the season so that's why I'm just now getting along around to this but like dude we're all trying to I don't I to say like move on with our lives but like this this has been weeks the season finale was was weeks ago and now you're talking about episode what three this is a this is just a this is a bum move from him dude like this this is trash yes it is and it's not surprising coming from him at this point yeah and I just don't get it's kind of like it's kind of like how if you're watching like the NFL starts up this week right we've got football back in in season it's like if your quarterback goes and airs all the team's grievances to the Press yeah like talk to the team in the locker room don't talk to us right right we don't need to hear this [ __ ] yeah you [ __ ] dramatic selfish prick you know what it also reminds me of is is uh Nick pisal going in on True Detective season for yeah this this uh earlier this year when again he's still getting an executive producer credit he's getting paid off the show but but at least for him like he was essentially excommunicated and they and not invited back to continue his own series like his complaints were lame for a different reason yeah but but George is still involved he's an active executive producer he's having these conversations with the showrunners and the writing team like yes he's airing the team's dirty laundry out in public to make himself you know smell Rosier and that it's just it's uh it's not a it's not a great look man it just seems like he's you know he doesn't want any of the blame and guess what dude you get some of it and you just like you've got bigger fish to fry like you said finish the books bro finish the books put the blog down walk away from the keyboard just to come back to that if you put out the books and they absolutely slap and they wrap it all up and everybody's like yes yes he did it he did it Crowd Goes Wild hero uh then I'll I'll dude then then then okay fine come talk [ __ ] about the shows because you did it you achieved it you landed the plane you were successful you told the story the way you wanted to and you're on top you're the winner yeah but this is what you when you sign up to have your [ __ ] turned into a TV show and you don't have full creative control which he clearly does not have or maybe he didn't even want this is what you're signing this is the possibility you have to make peace with they're going to change stuff it happens on every show that has Source material and everybody [ __ ] loses their minds every time it happens it's to read and reference The Hollywood Reporter just to get into a little more specifics here uh it says what's of Greater concern to Martin is how losing meor impacts the show's next two seasons Martin notes several sequences from his book uh that would seemingly be cut and they're avoiding spoilers here on The Hollywood Reporter so you don't have to worry about that but here's the quote this just further upsets me will any of that appear on the show Martin asks after detailing the moments from his book maybe but I don't see how the butterflies would seem to prohibit it from what I know that seems to be what Ryan is doing here it's simplest yes and may make sense in terms of budgets and shooting schedules but simpler is not better mord by himself means little he is a small child does not have a line of dialogue does nothing of consequence but die but where and when and how that does matter this is just word vomit it's just him stroking himself that's what I'm like he's answering the questions he asks with maybe but I don't see how well maybe they thought of how maybe you should be talk talking to Ryan instead of to your blog which then gets blasted out to millions of people [ __ ] what are you it just i' like you would think I just speaking from my own perspective if I'm George R Martin even if there's stuff that I'm like godamn it these [ __ ] idiots they're messing up my [ __ ] I'm probably going to keep it to myself and hope for the best CU it's still my baby being put on screen right it's still my creation that I'm making millions of dollars off of and that I clearly am emotionally invested in but like I do not get going the path he continues to go down where it's like I'm going to [ __ ] try to be like internet nerd hero right and position myself that's definitely separately from these HBO creatives and their Executives and the suits yeah but yeah I I mean here and and I'll just play devil's advocate for my own take on him right like he he probably gets gassed up with how with with how intense the book readers get when these when you know what I mean yeah because they're because they're all basically coming out of the woodwork and saying the book is better the book is better the book is better this guy wrote a Masterpiece and and and you know what I mean he's like [ __ ] yeah I'm a genius yeah exactly exactly so like I think he's just kind of sniffing his own farts when these when these Seasons come out and I think he gets he gets a little bit of a high off off of that that kind of that toxic internet fandom rushing to defend his original works and disagreeing with with changes and adaptations that are made from book to show so like you know it's it's it's hard to blame him for that cuz he it's a it's a huge ego boost but uh but it's just with with with the level of involvement that he the level of involvement that he does still have is is what really like rubs rubs me the wrong way and it makes it confusing yeah and I I think the worst thing about it is that there was already an uproar about the Fire or the the blood and cheese thing right it happened yeah they came out and spoke on his behalf this was a mistake it was better in the books he didn't need to itate that and to take it a step further and to say like and if you didn't like that you're definitely not going to like the changes they're making in season 3 and four it's like now you're costing them viewers which is I guarantee where their lawyers chimed in cuz like why do that like why do you're costing us listeners George that's what I'm saying [ __ ] stop it dude Jesus just write the books for the love of God stop blogging um yeah that's kind of all I have to say about it just it was frustrating when I saw it bubble up at the end end of August like God this guy can't help himself yeah he really can't and then when I saw what he was complaining about I thought it was going to be some like big explosive you know attack that he made on them he's like I didn't like blood and cheese what about meor dude come on come on man we're all watching other stuff now any other thoughts on George R Martin before we uh take care of some business and move on no I guess like you know it as as far removed from the ending of the show as it was I guess at least he didn't do this like 4 days before season 3 drops you know so by the Time season 3 rolls around we'll probably have forgotten all about this forgot all about this until it gets drummed back up whenever this scene happens yeah I just it's just [ __ ] frustrates me anyway you ever get home from work and wish you could just plop on the couch and enjoy your favorite TV show or movie without having to worry about what's for dinner of course you do we all do today's episode is brought to you by factor and they can help with that fuel up for life with factors no prep No Mess meals meet your Wellness goals thanks to the menu of chef-crafted meals with options like calorie smart Protein Plus and keto factors fresh never frozen meals are dietitian approved and 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clam famam head to factor meals.com 50 and use code 50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month that's code 50@ factor meals.com o50 to get 50% off your first box plus 20% off your next month while your subscription is active link and details and code in the description of this episode thank you very much um all right so quickly before we get to the couple of movies that you watched yeah yeah yeah I've watched the first two episodes of the Rings of power season 2 and I just have a couple of things is the entire season out no they did the thing where the season premieres and there's three okay available and they're week by week and then they're going week by week from there um nothing has changed as far as if you didn't like season 1 or the the in your uh position Barett I guess like the 20min minutes you watched of season one you probably won't like this either it's not like it's gone a different direction or they've shifted gears necessarily yeah um but through the first two this is a very good show if you really enjoyed Lord of the Rings if you're a big lotr fan you will really like rings of power and this is another show where it's like I know it's not Barrett's bag I know it's not everybody's bag if you don't like fantasy stuff you're definitely not GNA like this because it's it's that fantasy stuff without any of the like blood and tits that get you know House of the Dragon to be kind of more palatable for people who are not usually fantasy fans um but it's really really well done sever severe lack of breastesses in uh just zero in uh middlee yeah the elves they never pop top um but visually one of the most stunning shows I've ever I mean it should be because they're spending an insanely large bag on every season on every episode but um what's uh what's Gondor up to I don't know they're not really involved yet okay all right the men of Gondor about are you just Googling Lord of the Rings and what's happening in o gillath no I'm looking at your I'm looking at the Tweet you posted because what what is this thing what is this freaky decky thing uh that is the witch king of of Mag mag I can't remember the name is that is that in the show no it's in Lord of the Rings uh Return of the King oh that thing's freaky remember when he's like fool no man can kill me and that chick that chick takes off her helmet and she's like I am no man and then she stabs it you don't remember that No Return of the King no okay well I think I stopped after the two towers you never saw return I saw Return of the King I should see that one though which king of Angar Amar okay whatever but uh yeah great meme there making fun of all uh there's a I I saw a you've probably seen this have you seen the guy on Instagram Tik Tok who's like a he's like a a mechanic for commercial jetliners and he always start he starts his reels by explaining what he's going to fix but then like the bit is that he just goes into like a 4minute diet tribe describing something in deep detail from Lord of the Rings no I haven't seen this that sounds incredibly up my alley though I'll find it I'll find next time you find one send it to me um but yeah the the story in it of itself it's very much like an origin story for how you get to you know the Lord of the Rings trilogy the movies the original trilogy and uh it's very very fun there are still Hobbit folk in season 2 although they were not really included in the trailer so you're still dealing with some Haro foots it's mainly it's they're following the formula of Frodo and Sam okay so there's two main harf foots these two little Hobbits that are traveling with this unnamed wizard you know going to do an adventure has the ring been created yet not that ring not that ring okay but rings are now M multi yeah this is many rings yeah this is a multi- ring show yeah the in the first Lord of the Rings movie that little 10-minute Prelude they give you when they're like three rings were given to the elves nine Rings were given to the men yes who Above All Else desire power yeah I've seen those movies that movie way too many times but the point is that's what's happening in season 2 they're making the Rings at the end of season 1 they finally started making some rings in season two they're making even more rings everybody's getting Rings Barrett and all hell is breaking loose and it's been very very good through the first couple episodes it's dark it's dark darker we doing Amazon loves to do like 70 minute episodes are these all long n they're like an hour they're the regular you know Prestige TV link but um I love this [ __ ] I've really enjoyed it yeah I think season two so far has been a step up from season one does does your wife enjoy this show not really she likes The Wheel of Time better yeah yeah yeah like like the other night I was like you want to watch the rings of power and she was like okay I was like damn this was for the after we'd finished the first episode so this was for the second one of the season and I was just like so you're already at no excitement at all when you agree to watch this thing huh so she's not as as hyped on it as I am but um she hasn't like asked to not be a part of it yet that's yeah that's good and I'm hoping that doesn't happen cuz there's just not much TV watching time in my life right now but but anyway rings of power season 2 going strong I'm I'm probably going to start doing like a little bit of uh like uh like Instagram story content on this or something as the season progresses just because people keep asking me for thoughts and and I feel like that's the easiest place to put them um you know so that there's some rings of power discourse anyway yes Amazon did do the thing I hate where they they're like new season and here's three [ __ ] hours for you to watch immediately off the bat don't like it I just want one hour a week I can slot that into my schedule easily not think about it too much and move on with my life all right let's talk about these movies you watch okay real quick before we go all the way to the movies one more thing on TV are you all the way caught up on slow horses yeah so you watch the first three seasons yeah okay I think season 4 just dropped today maybe what um and I have one more episode left of of season 3 which is uh quite an explosive finale season 4 is today yeah yeah yeah so I'm I'm I'm going to be all all caught up on slow horses just we've been kind of loosely talking about this show over the last month or so um I finally watched it after several years of people telling me that that we would like it and uh yeah it's not really like a week- toe coverage type of show because it's just like nice little tight spy stories uh with Gary Oldman drinking and smoking smoking sigs and farting yeah uh but awesome show and and we have like sometimes we just find show we both really really enjoy it shorter Seasons we blow through the whole thing and that that is what is we I think we've crushed all three seasons of slow horses now in about a month um and that's about when we went that like we went through it quick man when we watched it at my house so very excited to to to jump into uh to finally be current with a season but yeah slow horses gets the seal of approval Apple TV that one yeah and Gary Oldman is is probably in like the goat tier his career we may have mentioned this already when we brought up slow horses recently but like I'm just kind of in awe of his IMDb at this point he has done so much great [ __ ] he's amazing and he car like he makes this show slow horses is good it's got good riding and it's got several good characters but like he makes this thing it is his deal so uh yeah props to Gary all right uh on to uh to the to the large screen or the small screen in my case since it was um on an airplane uh which movie would you like to hear about first Ross the the really shitty one yeah okay mad Madam web let's go Madam web like you said it was kind of teed up as one of the worst movies ever made all right so Madam web the headline here is it wasn't that bad it it it was to be clear this is a bad movie this is a bad film okay it has a lot of issues and a lot of problems yeah far from the worst movie ever made uh I I I can see kind of what they were doing with this well you saw Envy in theaters with me so that's you know that's a low bar so let me give you let me give you a quick breakdown of just like what this movie is trying to do and what this movie is about yeah what even is the premise all right it I don't know how much it is tied to Spider-Man or not I think it is supposed to be sort of tied to Spider-Man okay all right here's the premise in the Peruvian Amazon there is a very special spider whose peptides have all sorts of healing and powerful and and and you know Supernatural properties TI a tribe in this Amazon knows this and is kind of like the protector of the spider and also they're all basically Spider-Man okay the whole tribe yeah so uh this this scientist researcher woman is down there and she really wants to get the spider and find it but it's hard to track down and she wants to to to harness its its superpowers and bring it and you know bring it to the masses in the form of Health Care and cures and like all you know and wellness basically she wants to use it for good but there's a guy and he wants to use it for bad is he big Pharma he's he he might he might as well be because this villain in this movie is maybe the worst villain of all time it's the most two-dimensional character I've ever seen he basically has like eight lines that he just continues to repeat over the course of of an hour and 40 minutes you know virtually nothing about him he he he does nothing he has no personality he is he is a big fat zero and he is the reason why this movie is a failure damn dude you just eviscerated that character uh it's not really like a knock on the acting it's it's more just like they this this piece of the movie is so poorly written and un and underdeveloped that it Torpedoes the entire film okay th this th this movie apparently went through all sorts of changes it sat on the shelf for a while I think it had went through multiple re-shoot was re-edited a bunch of times Dakota Johnson has famously said that the final product was nothing like the the original script that she read and agreed to in the first place I already mentioned that this movie has Sydney Sweeney in a very bit part I don't like that adding that adds to the fact that I feel like this movie must have been shot in like 2020 before her star really really really blew up um but uh but okay that science woman that that wanted the spider uh she ends up dying and uh we we fast forward like 20 years and her daughter is Dakota Johnson okay and her her daughter has some of the spiders Powers but none of the Spidey none of the Spidey none of the physical ones it's all the mental ones oh and the spidey sense SP the spidey sense type of stuff yes she can kind of see the future a little a little bit all right okay she ends up through some pretty convoluted happenings taking under her Wing these three young girls who over the course of the movie do not gain any powers okay we think that they're going to gain Powers because there are some flash forwards to them having powers but then they never do but then they never do in this in in this film wonderful wonderful like they were saving that the [ __ ] sequel by the end of the film Dakota Johnson's character has lost the ability to walk and is maybe completely blind and his rolling around in a motorized wheelchair looking like female Professor X and she is essentially the mother hen of these three young high school girls one of whom is played by Sydney Sweeney okay this piece of the movie is not really was not really for me wasn't up my alley but I can kind of see what they were trying to do with it Dakota John is like this Ry sarcastic kind of like you know she's a she's a she's a paramedic that's her job it's got Adam Scott from sance as like her best friend partner that's also an EMT it has Emma Roberts in it in a random like role like it had some people it had some stuff going on and she she kind of reluctantly has to become this mom figure to these three kind of bratty high school girls who are eventually going to get some sort of like Spidey powers and she's like a Professor X version a version of this character and like then they go on and do a bunch of Adventures and H Jinks and like yada y y and I can kind of see how that would have worked honestly there's something interesting there like I said it's not for me but it it it was not the worst thing I've ever seen the other big takeaway that I had from this is that had this movie been developed and made 10 years ago this would have been Anne hathway in her role okay and I think it would have crushed bad timing yeah but not the worst movie I've ever seen um just a pretty just a pretty bad one I'm on the Wikipedia there's a lot of really funny sentences but the one that you just described it's at the end of the the synopsis it says Cassie wakes up to discover that she is now blind and paraplegic due to ezekiel's neurotoxin yeah however her Clairvoyance enables her to fully see into the future she assures the girls that she will Mentor them futes when thees when the time comes the end the end that's the film that's the movie uh honestly I'd love to watch a documentary about all the ups and downs and like the the production and development of this movie because it really just like it's funny because um speaking of people rehashing things like apparently like a Emma Roberts was just doing an interview with a with a magazine or a publication of some sort and talked about this movie again and basically said that like she didn't think it was that bad bad she's still proud of of of her participation in it and she and basically said as much that like the internet just like memes something to death it gets a hold of it it's the it's the it's the main character and it just it just kind of like snowballs and that's definitely what happened with this like the like it was this kind of laughing stock of a movie Dakota Johnson was on this weird publicity tour talking [ __ ] hosting SNL was very strange and it just kind of like took on a life of its own where Madam web became a bit right and it very much did like a widespread internet bit uh I knew nothing about this movie and I saw a lot of memes when it's really just like a you know a just a bad low-end Marvel film but it is Marvel yeah yeah that I think that's what makes it like even sadder yeah it looks like he didn't lose money though had a budget of like uh 100 million okay and made like 100 million so you know not a huge loss dud somebody in the accounting room is like is maybe this will get sequels it's possible they they could retool it and ride ride the internet you know the internet hubub I think the Marvel people have made some very strange decisions over the past several years so it wouldn't shock me all that much uh okay so that was Madam web that was Madam web yeah I'm not going to recommend that anybody watched this movie you're just saying it wasn't the worst movie saying it wasn't the worst movie of all time if you are on an airplane and you're scrolling through their catalog there like fck it a cple drinks yeah yeah it's kind of a Goode movie cuz you don't have to pay a whole lot of attention you know it sucks you're not going to miss anything and it's almost worth it just to see how bad this villain is like just to see how like like just what a what a colossal screw-up this was for the and the on the villain part it's tempting me honestly yeah um okay Mad Max Fury Road I'm surprised you never saw this I keep I mean furiosa not Fury Road I keep clicking on it on uh on Max because it's on there streaming right yeah and being like tonight and my wife's like no too stressful and I'm like fair enough because frankly madmax Fury Road this one's predecessor or I guess this is a prequel furiosa is a prequel so I don't want to make that too confusing but the point is Fury Road I would probably slot that into like That's a classic that's a that's a great movie like that's a very very good movie probably a classic also one of the most stressful films you'll ever watch so I think I think I had forgotten that it's like a car chase for an a straight hour and 45 minutes that doesn't stop and by the end of it you're exhausted it's fantastic it's a spectacle to behold but it is very very tiring and stressful it is not an easy watch at all and it's not really one you're like itching to get back to yeah like I've rewatched it but it's you know sure sure you watch it a couple few times in your life you're probably good I think I had forgotten how Non-Stop and intense Fury Road is yeah and I thought one of the interesting things when when furiosa came came out furiosa was also like one that made a lot of headlines because it was largely considered a flop at the box office it had all these like big tracking numbers they thought it was going to be like this huge movie and then it kind of ended up didn't making nearly as much money as people thought it would weekend one kind of sputtered out at the uh at the box office and and frankly the trailer was dog [ __ ] and yes and yes that I that I was that's where I was going to go next is that like you know been several years since Fury Road came out and this furiosa trailer didn't look it just didn't grab me it didn't it did not do enough to remind me how insane Fury Road was this should have been the easiest win of all time trailer wise yeah like you said been a few years enough time has passed you got Ana Taylor Joy queued up for this thing everybody loved Fury Road everybody all you got to do is not [ __ ] up the trailer I will say the the look of these movies is so specific that I that while watching it I was like yeah this just really doesn't translate to to a trailer very well the way that I don't know something like uh like a Batman film you're right I mean there's it's it's very like there's like all these like pops of yellow and it almost looks kind of cartoony and fake in spots yes and that's the vibe the trailer gave off yes yeah yeah yeah I was like do they screw up the CGI or what's happening here something about uh it's himsworth right Chris himsworth something about him in the trailer I was like this looks silly I'm not not invested pass okay having said all of that a as far as sometimes very rarely you get a sequel or a prequel a second film that elevates itself above the original right right th this one does not do that but it captures what Fury Road did so well and repackages it and bottles bottles it up and like I would say serves you 90% of Fury Road Again like it's really really really good and and once again it is non-stop like that that's that's what I had forgotten about Fury Road is that the action scene like like you get very few breaks and then they are right back to these Massive setpiece Action scenes and this movie does that all over again like it's there there are there are some I mean this is some of the be this is some of the best set piece work you will see all year there's no question uh it has awesome car chases again it has awes aome battles on the on the uh what do they call the the the the the in the Wasteland oh yeah driving up you know to Gast town that type of thing [ __ ] Gast Town [ __ ] Gast town uh so this is a this is a big recommend for me especially if you liked Fury Road Anya Taylor Joy is awesome Chris Hemsworth is really good in this role um and it's just kind of like if like I said if you enjoyed Fury Road this is kind of a the the the the origin story of furiosa using the exact same visual language that Fury Road did and it's you know you got guy you got guys yelling witness me and spray spray painting their mouths like shut up oh I'm so in the the the IM immot Joe Immortal immortan Joe yeah he's still the big bad okay yeah I mean that makes sense like the the it's a prequel by I don't know 15 years something like that yeah like it doesn't go back that far so so people are still getting witnessed people people are still getting witnessed you know part of the thing with the trailer it came off as like okay Fury Road was a huge success and it came off like they wrote like they were like and here let's do another one but maybe it's not even the original guy doing this but this is written by George Miller it's directed by George Miller and they didn't do a good enough job of being like this is still George Miller this is not some [ __ ] cash grab you know what I mean like that's they just I something about the way that trailer was put out and the vi put off Fury Road wasn't it kind of like a I I remember it being almost a surprise hit it's not like it was a cheap movie to make it was it starred chares theone so like it had a big star I mean I think it was very Word of Mouth like you were saying I don't know that these movies translate very well to trailers because it really is just one long chase scene in a lot of ways and it's kind of out there in the desert with different it's they're weird they're weird right so I I don't remember seeing the Fury Road Trail and being like Oh hell yeah I can't wait definitely Tom Hardy let's do this I don't think that that that it it nobody knew that it was going to be like an Oscar nominated you know widely like acclaimed film like the way that it was but similarly when furiosa came out and there was basically no buzz because everybody was like what is this trailer [ __ ] I'm not that excited about this everyone I knew that went and saw it immediately spoke very highly of it like that was [ __ ] incredible and I just never got around to seeing seeing it in theaters which I now regret because obviously these movies are definitely meant to be enjoyed in theaters and not on a tiny airplane I loved it on a plane so I can only imagine like how how how sick it would have been in theaters yeah yeah okay so this is a big thumbs up for me big thumbs up for me yeah yeah I'm goingon to I'll be I'll be home solo this weekend so I'll be the one making the viewing decisions okay this is what I'm what I'm going to go with I'm going to do it finally cuz I need it yeah I need it I think you're going to have a good time this one barely made money man yeah I know barely made money because of the [ __ ] well hopefully they cash a fat check for fat check hey uh what's up chick um a fat check from Delta you know they're getting that Delta money to have it on the on the airplane uh I want to talk about one other movie yeah before we we bounce for the day so Joker 2 AKA f f Joker F coming out a month from today I think actually like we're a month out okay they started to do the big press tour if you haven't noticed it's wae Phoenix is out there with Gaga and [ __ ] Todd Phillips and they're they're sitting in places and they're talking about this movie okay one uh I know you saw the story about wae Phoenix walking away from this one film he was supposed to do 5 days before they started shooting he was like you know what guys never mind I'm out completely screwed these people and there's been so much like uh Hollywood gossip about like why he left what he was thinking people are bringing up like past occurrences that were similar because Wen is kind of a nut all right if you didn't know that like he's one of these dudes he's not on the same playing field as the rest of us he lives in a different [ __ ] reality and that's the way it is with a lot of the greatest actors of all time if you haven't picked up on that like it's it's a thing these dudes are [ __ ] Looney Tunes and he is he is one of those guys like he's really really really [ __ ] strange um anyway he abandoned that movie so they bringing up that movie at the Joker pressers okay and he's trying really really really hard walking Phoenix to not tell people to go [ __ ] themselves when they ask these questions and to be polite about it but so far all he's been able to come up with as a response is that he's like well the other creatives involved in that movie aren't here so it would really just be my opinion and that doesn't seem fair because they wouldn't be able to be like give a rebuttal basically which is honestly decent PR nice spin it is good spin it's horseshit but it's a really nice spin you're like I can see how that makes sense yeah if he just shits all over the project and then like they're not even here to defend it right um obviously their rebuttal would be this guy's a crazy [ __ ] he's the one who brought us the project which is true the whole thing was his idea which makes it impossible to you know we're [ __ ] on George R Martin like hey guy you this is your deal why are you Dum this is worse he literally was like guys we should make this book into a movie and then 5 days before they started shooting the movie he was like I'm out never mind and uh there there talks about suing him still anyway long story short the thing I keep noticing about Joker you remember months ago when I told you Joker 2 is going to be a Musical musical yes and you were like are you joking or not about the Joker that's why they got gaga we joke about the Joker anyway yes so now they're really really concerned with the fact that they've created a musical uhhuh and so they're they're on this press tour being adamant then it is in fact not a musical I'll give you a quote from Gaga explaining quote I wouldn't necessarily say that this is actually a musical in a lot of ways it's very different the way that music is used is to really give the characters a way to express what they need to say because the scene and just the dialogue is not enough that's a musical that's explaining the definition of a musical as as an argument that this is not a musical so they're like clearly they're worried about people being turned off by this like all these angry you know internet incel Bros who [ __ ] packed the theater for Joker none of them are going to go see a musical right so now they're having to go out there and be like no no no we were just kidding yes there are some songs but really those songs only exist because the setting in the in the and the dialogue is not quite enough to you know it's like you could just see like the characters need to express themselves through something more than just what should we call speaking and yes there's music in the and then she goes on like she she answers that question and then continues to explain like and it was wild cuz when we were on set we had The Pianist right there so we're getting to do this all a lot anyway utter failure on their part to come up with messaging that actually yeah argues this isn't a musical cuz all she did was give the definition of a musical and as she's doing it she's sitting at this table with Todd Phillips you know the director writer Creator whatever and walking Phoenix who's already in a bad mood because they just keep hounding him about this [ __ ] movie he abandoned and you can see both of them like God damn it this is going to happen all month isn't it because this is the beginning of their press tour yeah and it's and she they're already having to do this whole like no no no it's not a musical buy your tickets please come out get excited about this and and uh it just is incredibly entertaining to me that that's what's happening I need to go I need does the trailer indicate that this is a musical I don't think I've watched the trailer not really okay because it's not Barrett it's not a musical not a musical it's not a musical there just is a lot of singing there's a lot of singing and dancing but it's not a musical so just so everybody knows um Joker F not a musical now that being said since we're speaking on the Batman type stuff um is this do you know yeah is the is Walk Phoenix the Batman universe's Joker I there's zero connection okay all right yeah so no and in fact one of the complaints I'm seeing about the whole Joker situation now is that he's clearly not going to be doing any jokery [ __ ] like scheming and plotting and fighting against Batman cuz it's not that's not what they're doing with the joker franchise and that's fine I'm not complaining I'm just saying that's what now people are like well is he ever going to get around to being the Joker cuz this whole one is like his trial okay for the stuff he did in the first movie seems pretty cut and TR well but they're singing and dancing but it's not a musical it's going to be very exciting you just have to buy in all right I'm I'm seriously this is one I will go see in theaters because Joker the original was good enough and uh got me to uh Buy in enough that I'm I'm really looking forward to this Todd Phillips I he's like in my brain he was The Hangover guy he is yeah yeah and then he dropped the Joker thing and like that blew me away so uh I'll give him my money okay my you know 50 bucks or whatever do you see your boy um Tom Cruz's uh Protege guy Glen pal thinks it cost $15 to go to the movies well that's how much the ticket costs that's how much one ticket costs a child's ticket at a shitty theater no that's how much it cost to go one ticket Draft House really yeah I paid $31 for two tickets to Twisters speaking of Glen pal I paid $31 for two tickets to Twisters Twisters yeah yeah oh [ __ ] and it's just that everything everything else like concessions are expensive you got to get a babysitter if you have kids that's expensive like in reservation dogs another show I'm watching right now which is phenomenal they call Sonic the the restaurant restaurant the food joint they call it Sonics okay there's an s on they just throw an s on the end and I like that so I've started doing it too I'm culturally appropriating that are you now are you are has it really upped the number of times you're going to Sonics I think about it more yeah for sure cuz they mentioned Sonics like every episode it's almost like advertising they got GES Sonics right they do yeah foot long ones with chili and cheese on them uh anyway fo long who's got the foot long when you said Twisters it reminded me of Sonics okay cuz it just sounds like [ __ ] oh [ __ ] I'm going to watch that at some point on on at at home in my home theater that is my bed uh anyway since we brought up the Joker and the whole you know Lady Gaga it's not a musical drama um Barrett never watched the Batman with uh old boy Robert patson who directed that I don't even remember this it's a it's a guy it's a it's a dude it is Matt Reeves Matt Reeves that's right Matt Matt re Matt Reeves Batman Universe so Barett never watched the Batman we've got the penguin starting on HBO two weeks from now so next week you and I are going to do a podcast on the Batman okay all right and that will lead us into our coverage of the penguin which we are going to do episodically now fingers crossed cuz we don't know if the penguin is going to be good very good yeah we don't know no we don't really know I am a massive fan of Colin frell yeah he's one of my favorite actors him and his eyebrows love this guy it's in some of my favorite movies of all time um I guess he was fine as the penguin in the Batman movie which Barrett hasn't seen yet so I don't want to give too many spoilers but like he wasn't you know the he wasn't one of The Shining pieces of the film to me like the the the mood and the tone and The Vibes that the Batman brings to the table are what make it so good and patson was fine his Batman is solid and they did some cool things things that are different enough from the most recent iteration of this that we saw from Christopher Nolan that it stands out and I thought it was cool visually very stunning all that being said I I don't know how confident I am in the penguin I'm not worried necessarily I'm just like yeah this could be very very for lack of a better term mid right so we'll see we'll see but next week Barrett and I will be covering the Batman uh I am excited to do this because I love talking about movies together and it's been a minute since we've done one and uh I should note on that note we have a bunch of movie podcasts companion podcasts for movies that Barrett and I watched and then reviewed and discussed on patreon.com oyers clams cockles but that's the schedule for the next several weeks the Batman next week and if you're on patreon get calls in MK militia about the Batman uh this week you can call in about anything honestly we'll talk about whatever any questions you have anything you're watching that you want to suggest a review hollas and then after we do the Batman we'll be queued up for the penguin which is weirdly releasing on like Thursdays so that's going to screw us up a little bit okay that's interesting yeah we'll have to talk about how to handle our recording schedule as a result HBO does this every once in a while they're like you know what we we do enough Sundays but usually they do Mondays if they're not doing Sundays but yeah this honestly it's the biggest um reason I I don't have a ton of confidence in the penguin cuz they were like let's just [ __ ] stick this thing on like a Thursday it'll be you know maybe people won't talk about it as much you know uh but they spent a lot of money on it it's got a great cast and uh I'm very interested to see how things go with the penguin because I don't know that I've seen a lot as far as reviews go um so yeah yeah why didn't you watch the Batman Barrett just curious um you know on our way out explain yourself the it didn't do a lot to like hook me and draw me in like I didn't need another Batman movie like I'm I'm very big fan of Christopher Nolan and Christian Bale's uh Batman so like I wasn't just like chomping at the bit to get in the theaters to watch another one rats do Batman a new one yeah um also as I've noted I think a couple weeks ago I think this movie is 5 hours long super long yeah something like that so I should probably like start it tonight to make sure that I'm done by next week yeah uh it's really really long no no no lies there it's very long how do you feel about pson that that was probably a detractor as well I like Robert patson I I'm I'm very interested to see what he does with gotho Bruce waynebatman um he's got one still frame that like always gets shared around in like fashion memes that you know it's like this sick he's wearing like this like kind of like Yeezy esque bomber jacket and he's got like paint coming down his face [ __ ] hate everybody in life life is a meaningless void so I'm I'm I'm down with that I'm a fan of his I died Barrett you know it affects you makes you yeah makes you become This Bat freak yeah makes you a freak yeah yep okay uh but yeah no I I'm I'm going to give it a go we'll we'll see we'll see what we think and yeah I mean I I like like it seems important to watch this before going into the penguin yeah or penguin I wouldn't say it's like absolutely essential mhm based on almost no knowledge that I have about the penguin but my guess is you would be okay if you if you were like [ __ ] it I cannot watch the Batman it's 5 hours long right if you're here with us you probably care enough about getting your highquality uh entertainment under the best circumstances yeah watch the Batman enjoy the movie with us in the discussion uh that we put out in our podcast next week and then we'll all be on the same page going into the penguin which or not we will have fun covering that I promise you one way or the other one way or the other y'all holler it do get on patreon.com oysters clams cockal support our show there are hundreds and hundreds of AdFree episodes that you have never heard before featuring both Barrett and I on patreon.com oyers clams cockal if you've never been on patreon you've missed out on a ton of OC over the years we have an Companion podcast for every single episode of HBO's classic crime drama The Sopranos that is friendly to both first timers and rewatchers we've got as I mentioned earlier movie club with a ton of different movies in there uh many of which I would consider Classics that Barrett and I discuss and review all of our bonus episodes for all these random TV shows that we've covered including House of the Dragon White Lotus The Last of Us succession Etc so on and so forth go to patreon.com oyers clams cockles today and subscribe there is a 7-Day free trial available if you just want to dip your toes in the water there and check it out and see what's what other than that we're on the social medias you can search oysters clams and cockal on Tik Tok Instagram and Twitter or X and uh Barrett and I are also on the social medias Barrett Dudley brail oh yeah Brazil sorry to our Brazilian listeners you guys can't enjoy the old X anymore what a loss huge L for the for the Brazilians all living free of the constant negativity and drama of X formerly known as Twitter anyway we'll be back soon we'll be on patreon later this week back next week with the Batman the penguin after that we're going to Gotham get in baby until next time peace [Music]