Ep. 319: Cardinals players to watch in preseason opener, depth chart reactions

[Music] rise [Music] up [Music] rise this is the rise up SE red podcast all about the Arizona Cardinals and the NFL featuring Insider and Outsider perspectives enjoy the best hour of Cardinals talk on the web now here are your hosts Jess root and Seth [Music] Cox helloa Cardinal fans and welcome to the latest edition of the rise up seet Podcast the best St of cardinals talk on the web I'm your host Jess root from cardswire dcom the Arizona Cardinal site from the USA Today NFL wire with my co-host Cox from Revenge ofthe birds.com the Arizona Cardinal site from uh SB Nation and also one of the hosts of the original breakdown podcast and we bring you uh episode [Music] 319 as we are looking ahead to the Cardinals first preseason game which will be will they will kick off at State Farm Stadium uh Friday night against the Dallas Cowboys who are the focal point of this year's Hard Knocks we're going get to see Dak Prescott um we might get to see a few of the little bit of the starters probably not Ezekiel Elliott um but it'll be somewhat of a preview of maybe of the team that we will see um in week 17 uh in Big D uh down at the end of the year but in this episode of the show first off Seth how are things with you and in the the podcast and the site and everything else in general it's going well man I mean it's been as you know you know quite quite busy um Cardinals stuff which is always fun um but the reality is it's it's getting to the point where you can only talk so much about hypotheticals and we now are you know looking forward to finally getting a little a little real football action uh and and figuring out uh what this Arizona Cardinals team has and what they are uh that's going to I think unfold in in over the next couple weeks but I mean at the same time I think you and I both know that there's not going to be a ton that we get out of this first game with all of the uh missing pieces but hey at least it's at least it's football and at least it's Arizona Cardinal football and we're going to get to see a little bit of Kyler Murray allegedly and you know get back to enjoying the Arizona Cardinals and hopefully get the bitter taste of last season out of our mouth and and let us we're going to cover this um what we're going to cover this show we're going to talk about apparently the number of injuries that we've got but more than anything we're going to talk about what we want to look for in in the preseason game who we're going to be watching and then of course the Cardinals released their first depth chart we'll react to that what what we think about everything um but let's go ahead and get started let's talk about the injuries because it seems like now the most glaring thing right now is the fact that they had to sign four veteran defensive linemen and and that was just quiet quiet so now they've got they've got 12 players on the offseason roster at on the defensive line they have one on injured reserve and they have J JJ Watt on pup so yeah what so far what we know we Cliff Kingsburg continues to be non disclosing of any and all types of injuries and timelines because he doesn't have to and and I get I get it don't like it uh because it just makes my job more difficult but it would appear well obviously Xavier Williams was placed on IR uh JJ wats on pup um at last Saturday's practice was the one I attended most recently uh Zack Allen did not practice Rashard Lawrence did not practice Cory Peters did not practice he's not injured though he was just getting acclimated um and so they were down all of those and Jordan Phillips of course didn't practice either who's been out for most of campit field it it believes so they are down a number of players on the defensive line which I know it's training camp but coming off of last season in which they had six guys on ir and Jordan Phillips had on got on IR twice it's a real area of it's a red flag to me to be H let's unless we're just going to get him all the way get him out of the way now and we're going to be fine during the season that is an area I worry about yeah and I think it is a concern because it's [Music] been again we talked about it a little bit last week is that there's just not a ton of camaraderie along the defensive side of the ball yet and then you you kind of factor in all of those guys that are just not getting any work together and and you know are unable to stay healthy and yeah I mean it makes it I think it makes it difficult for for the Cardinals to develop chemistry and talent and then you add in the fact that it is important players it's not and I don't want to this do sound bad when I say it but it's not Michael Doby you know it's not I know they cut him but it wasn't Xavier Williams you know it's core key guys JJ Wat is what it is like I don't think we were super concerned about it at the time but now with Jordan Phillips and that situation um bringing back Corey Peters and and you and I love the signing don't get us wrong but it it does start to concern you that they are maybe mildly concerned about the the status of some of these guys maybe for even like the the opening of the season right yeah that that's the part that I that I worry a little bit about is well if it if it's like that and they have to carry extra defensive lineman on the roster while they're getting guys healthy that's going to mess with the roster build after the for the final 53 because you can't put them on IR now they have to wait till they make the final 53 to do that now you know the Corey Peters signing it's great to have Corey back the the thing was is that it was it was a surprise to sort of everyone because it happened super fast and and it was fast for Corey too he when he came to work out he didn't work out intend like planning on signing a contract um in the words of what what his agent told me he said it it happened fast and that tells me that they felt a little bit and including him plus the addition of four other vet defensive tackles tell me that they were borderline desperate now I I initially I just thought okay they knew that Xavier Williams was hurt so they needed to get their veteran nose tackle back on the roster because that's kind of what I felt we both felt that that was in terms of targets that they were going to do they were going to add a veteran nose tackle so that they didn't so they had some experience behind Rashard Lawrence Lecky fotu but it's not just the fact that that they signed him but then they added three others You Know Jack Crawford margus hunt and and then Darius kilgo those guys are I mean those are established like the addition of Clinton McDonald in other years and and things like that so I don't know exactly what to think about all of this but it sounds like and well here's the thing Jordan Phillips for me is the one guy that I'm kind of worried about because because he had the hamstring issue last year twice that put him on IR um and I'm hoping it's not still the hamstring because that that would that would be a bad premonition to what's going to happen this season kind of like Max Williams and his ankle last year well and just like we talked about a little bit last week it's really really difficult for him to play with any type of hamstring or or leg impingement at all because the way he does he the way he does play is not like a normal 67 350 pound lineman he's not just a run stopping Behemoth he's a upfield penetrating guy he's a he's a one Gap attacking guy so it's not going to you know allow him to do anything if he's if he's got any sort of twinge in the lower legs um you know I wrote about a little bit today I think the addition of margus hunt is interesting because he's played on some good defenses the last three years as a bit player um you know he was on two talented Colts defenses he played there three years the first year they were they were not good but uh you know the second year they were top 10 and then won a playoff game and then the third year was the year they lost Andrew Luck to retirement and you know that that that's going to hurt any defense and and they still were you know just below bottom half they were 18th at 23 points per game I mean that's not terrible no what for me you look at the additions I forgot to mention Josh marrow Josh marrow margus hunt those guys fit in the type of role that they have for JJ Watt and Zack Allen which then raises question you're like wait a minute are those guys okay but yeah those those are the same type they watt is at another level okay right Zack Allen is a they believe that has kind of has a JJ Watt feel to his game he's just a little he's below that and then Josh marrow is a cheaper version of Zack Allen right and so that's the that's the thing so you know when you look at the the injury concerns it is a concern I mean there's there's no doubt that there's a concern about the injuries on this roster and and we'll start from day one when we talked about it in free after you know our post free agency show is that they you know Steve Kim and Cliff kingsbery were basically staking their careers on veteran Talent staying healthy and the ironic thing you know in the whole situation is the only you know veteran that they that they got um that's been healthy as you know the last several years has been Rodney Hudson uh you know and so when you look at it at that the only guy right now healthy is Rodney Hudson he even he missed a few games yeah I mean at least that was yeah that was covid related and it was a little slightly different I mean that's something out of out of their control for the most part um a green is the other one that you're like I hope it's nothing but but what if it's at foot again yeah and so that's I mean that's that's where you're yeah exactly that's where you're concerned and that's where you yeah you just you hope that it's nothing and you kind of go from there and you know I I honestly I don't know what to think at this point we're we're you know obviously we're recording on a Wednesday this will get put out tomorrow night uh Thursday night and and you know give you about 24 hours to listen to before the first preseason game and I think you and I both would agree with the idea that this preseason game means absolutely nothing it doesn't matter but at the same time we'd love to be able to see AJ Green Run three routes right yes we love we'd love to see Rond Del Moore you know catch one one football though Rond Del was back at practice on on Wednesday so that is promising and hopefully that means he will get at least a few reps he that he did get overworked and that was kind of the issue with some of the other players going down as he got a little he he got overused which training camp it can happen so hopefully he will get some reps well AJ probably will not DeAndre probably will not and that's and I'm fine with Hopkins not playing I would be fine with Carla Murray not playing if we're being honest I mean I don't know how you feel about it but me I believe in playing the starters some if if Hopkins and green if more guys were available I would agree but I for for me like they just need Rhythm and timing and you're obviously not going to get that if all those guys aren't out there now true but at the same time I like I like it for the evaluation per purposes for the non like the top two receivers but you get the the the depth receivers work with the number one quarterback well and we haven't even talked about it yet but um you know Andy Isel is back on the covid-19 list bad news for Andy actually and that's you know that's another one because without adri Green in there you get Andy Isabella as the you know quote unquote starter just based on the the initial depth chart that we'll discuss in a little bit but um and now he's missing so that's gonna go to I mean is kesan gonna slide over is it gonna be the the kid that's number three on that depth chart right now um that would have been a big a big game for Andy to get to play in uh you know we talk about we talk about preseason and it not mattering but for guys like Andy Isabella and Kean Johnson it it's going to matter quite a bit because they're going to you know determine whether or not one of them makes the roster or or maybe both but you know you and I are already speculating three quarterbacks so that means a a numers got to get cut from somewhere it's true it's true coming up next on the rise UPC red podcast the best star of cardos talk on the web let's talk about this preseason game coming up who and who do we want to watch what do we want to see that's coming next on Rise Up SE red we're back on the rise up SE red podcast B cardo talk on the web and we look ahead to the preseason game Friday night State Farm Stadium um going to be it's going to be a long night but uh we're going to see some starters we're going to see a lot of the young players but if if we're going down a list right now we're just talking individual players who are the players you want to see most uh the first guy that I want to see I mean there's so many of them but I think the first two I want to see is I want to see the inside linebackers I mean zav Collins and Isaiah Simmons both I you know people are going to disagree with me and you know it is what it is I I'm gonna count this as basically Simmons rookie year as well I know he's got some some playing time it's it's like in Major League Baseball he is is he didn't get enough service time in his first year to count as a year so this in in Major League Baseball that's how that works so this year he would actually be a rookie because he didn't get enough service time last year to call him a rookie to to lose that rookie distinction correct and that's where that's where I'm at and so you know when you look at it those are the first things there's so little you can evaluate Noak Prescott Ezekiel Elliot probably not playing I don't even know what offensive lineman that these guys are going to roll out this week um it doesn't matter I I just I just want to see those guys having some showing initially some type of Rhythm and that to me will will be the obviously most important thing for them um right you know out of the gate and so those are the first two things two guys I'm really excited to see that makes total sense these are two players at the Cardinals it it happens to be the two players in the middle of the field both young that they didn't kind of back themselves up with vet now if they end up keeping Jordan Hicks okay then they're all right then that that makes sense that said I'm really intrigued to see what they do with I want to see Chris there's two players on offense one is just I want to see Chris strer play because the one playing time that we got him see was against the number one defense in a critical game and things didn't go that well and and while it seems very clear at least this offseason this training camp Colt McCoy is the number two that's how the reps are going and he's looked better than Sher but I want to see him because Cliff Kingsbury is still bullish about strer as a player um and I'm intrigued to know whether or not they're going to keep three on the roster um I think it's going to be hard to do it but I still want to see strel play and obviously I'm I'm with the scores of Cardinals fans who want to see Eno Benjamin in action um and especially if if we can catch him doing some some good things on special teams because I think he's gonna I think when it comes to the running game I think he will he will wow you in the preseason game that'll be fun to see um but yeah th those are my top two players I'm watching is I me other than Kyler Marie yeah but Chris drer Eno Benjamin and then I want to see Rond Del Moore I want to see him do because I think he'll he'll give some excitement uh I doubt chanler Jones plays especially with the contract situation um Devon Canard I want to see a little him and then Josh Jones at at Right Guard that's that's the that's the other one there I want to see I want to see what he's doing at Right Guard because he's there's no Justin Murray there's no Brian Winters um so we get to see the young guy and who's who's super confident playing guard is still a little new to him but these those are the guys I'm kind of looking at there's a whole bunch of things I want to watch but those are my main ones initially yeah and I think you know you mentioned you know I think that's a great great pick um you know I'm interested to see what darquez dard has left in the tank um I'm hopeful that Robert Alfred doesn't even come on the field I don't I don't I honestly don't know what the plan is for him but I would be okay if he doesn't play at all so you know for my guys a lot of my guys I think Jones was a good one to to highlight because again we'll get into the depth chart but you know it was interesting to see where he was on the depth chart because and then where he's playing and then that gives you some pause on and and we know that this depth chart doesn't mean anything in general but um it was just it's just interesting to see how it's coming out now and then where they're playing on Friday because it's like wait a second those guys aren't even on the field and wait this guys playing here so you know is Jones going to play start at Right Guard and then slide over to right tackle and with the twos or is he too important and they're just going to after the ones come out he's one of the ones that come out you know that those are as much as we want to see the effectiveness of the play those are also the questions I have are how these guys are going to be rotated and what what the usage looks like and I know it's a game that again means little to nothing but I just want to see what the plan is for some of these guys that you know we H we are expecting something from also what do they do in the return game um it we'll talk about the depth chart but the guys they have listed on the depth charts I I I don't expect to be returners this year and so but yeah um Jaylen Thompson you know we barely saw what it is it'd be nice to see him make a play or two in in The Limited work he's going to get but like the safeties in general that room is stacked they've got when they released Donald rutage it's funny because they've listed Donald rutage as a linebacker on their roster but he's only practiced with safeties and he's in he was at a safety on the depth chart they now have seven safeties on the roster all of whom I believe could make the team the including their seventh round pick James Wiggins and so all seven of those safeties I think are very capable of making the team especially since you know you've got your Jaylen Thompson and Buddha Baker those are your established starters Chris banjo was respectable when he played shanan Williams has been a starter in the league and banjo is such a key right and so you've got banjo you've got banjo you got Washington who are core special teers Williams who I assume they signed to be a core special teer and then Wiggins who is an athletic freak who should be doing things on special teams as well so that I have no idea what's going to happen so just to see this the the the Dynamics at safety are going to be fascinating if Wiggins is healthy I would assume that he's gonna he's going to make the roster is a special teams guy unless he just somehow is awful well that's I think he would but the guys ahead of him they've been I mean they're they're good on special teams too that's that's the weird stuff oh Marco Wilson oh I hope we the rookie quarterbacks Marco Wilson Tay Gowan Gowan has been we'll talk about that later but Gowan has hasn't gotten a lot of burns so far in training camp but Marco Wilson you know with the injuries that have popped up has gotten some first team reps you know let's let's get him some looks that as well and honestly you know I I I I won't lie I kind of want to see what everyone looks like and and when it comes to the offensive line I'm really bad it noticing that during the game so I that's one of the things you have to go back and watch again afterwards watch the the game again where you can look at that because I spend my time looking at you know everybody else everybody like the skill players the The Edge the pressure a and pre- snap I'm I'm looking at formations because I I chart their personnel and their formations to kind of look at what they're what they're doing so yeah I mean and it is going to I mean this is a little off topic but it's going to be even harder this year because um they're allegedly taking away the all 22 film from nfl.com so yeah well yeah game passes out I think it's coming that's separate I think it's coming back but I think um what it is is they're going to find a way to make it harder to screen capture oh okay yeah all these dirty hipsters and their Twitter right or or the the Doug ferar on touchdown wire or all like the the film the film um analysis that so many people do on on their websites which come on I don't know why the NFL does like unless they're I don't know you know how the NFL is they they love their their product more than anybody else yeah I mean you know you mentioned the the young corners and and the reason that I didn't really mention them is because it's just I I I guess I'm more interested to see where kind of like what you said where they're going to get that burn at because they haven't you know Wilson's been you know involved quite a bit like you said but outside of that what are they you know when are they coming in is is taay a guy that they're going to try to hide for the practice squad um you know is is are are they going to keep the four veterans you know if you know knock on what everybody says healthy and and Alfred um Butler and dinard to go along with obviously Murphy like are they like those are the questions I have more than anything right now because the roster is just so it's such a mishmash right now of unknowns that when you get past the first 22 or 23 guys it becomes a real puzzle and I I'm interested to see how they one fight that out but two how they put that puzzle together absolutely any anything else of note there there is one other player and this is just this is just a hunch and I it's going to be hard for him to make the roster I think Michael Doby is a guy I've been super intrigued with since he was drafted he just missed you know he made the roster then didn't make the roster and you know bounced between the active roster and the practice squad and I think I think that's gonna happen again I felt like this off season watching him in in offseason work and and down in training camp a little bit that there's a little something there like they they like him they really like him um but it might be a numbers game there so I want to I want to see him make plays because he's a he's a guy it's really easy to root for especially if you remember the that Draft Day call the tears and just well in the fact there is a certain mentality that comes from Temple players that you have a hard time not rooting for right exactly and you know it'll be interesting to see how this sun folds with with the defensive line because as we said it looks at you know it looks like they would like to just keep six and if you look at you know obviously they just resigned Cory Peters and and the JJ watt's going to be there and it it's virtually impossible to cut Jordan Phillips at this point nope so you figure he's going to be there so that's three so there's three spots left for a lot of guys that deserve right here's here's locks watt's a lock Lawrence is a lock Philips is a lock fleck's A Flock uh Zack Allen's a lock Cory peters's a lock that six guys yeah and that makes it tough but I think dog fits really nicely into the practice squad ideal for what they want to do because he's a guy like you said that they've yo-yoed before and they trust him you know if they need him in in a pinch coming up next time the rise up here H podcast of Cal talking the web let's move on and talk about the depth chart that came out how much of it is real what were what were we surprised about we'll talk more about that that's coming on Rise UPC red we back on the rise UPC red podcast best card talk on the web we're to talk about the offensive side of the ball first we'll take a look at the offens side of the ball and and you know the starters really were no surprise actually one surprise based on what I've seen so your starting quarterback there no big deal you know Chase Edmonds is listed ahead of James Connor the the three starting receivers are Kirk Hopkins and green you've got Max Williams at tight end but on the offensive line it's still Justin Murray listed as the starter even though you know wink wink I shouldn't say this necessarily but what you saw before Brian Winters got hurt Brian Winters was running with the first team and basically has been in every open drill that I've seen that he was listed ahead of of Murray and but been working ahead of Murray that's said I think as as I noted when I wrote about it that this is happens to be incumbent you know heavy that they when they have newcomers with the exception of a couple that they the guy who held the job before and Murray was the starter at the end of last year they are leaving them there and and as these depth charts goes because and notice it's prepared by the media relations department it's not put together by the coaching staff we've seen depth charts that you know after they've and I think what is the that the media relations department adjusted after what they've seen on the field so it's part information that they get from the coaches and part reacting to what they see on the field that said Justin Murray is still listed the starter when I was there after the red white practice and they were doing they were actually doing the run through of like the players coming onto the field um the cheerleaders and and all of that how they do that um the announcing had Justin Murray listed as the starting at Right Guard um were you surprised at that yeah I was a little bit um not sure what to make of it I guess would be a better way to explain it um but the way they've spoken about Joshua miles maybe they have the idea that it's going to be um you know that they have enough trust in miles now to allow Murray to to take hold of the the starting position at re guard uh because they feel like they feel like what they do with with Murray won't impact the whole offensive line if that makes sense right so so now they've got you know they're comfortable in miles they they like Josh Jones um and all that means is that oh hey we can start the guy we want at Right Guard maybe that is Justin Murray maybe it's just you know a and this is you know just us having a conversation I don't want anybody to take this to heart but like maybe this is a hey Brian Winters you know get back out there type of wakeup call um so those are you know those are some thoughts I have on the whole situation because it's different than any you know most of the stuff that we've seen and and what we've kind of witnessed so far yeah um the interesting is you you noted this earlier how Josh Jones is listed as the backup right tackle I think ultimately I think that's where his role is going to be but they want him to give him reps at Right Guard and to give him a chance to compete cu the the kid wants to play and I'm sure that Cardinals brass would love to see him play since he was one of their third he was their third round pick a year ago however um based on what Sean cougler said on Saturday is that right now Jones is only at Right Guard and that that's because of the the injuries to Winters and Murray so he's not getting any reps at right tackle right now so I would anticipate he probably doesn't get uh reps in the preseason game in fact this is how I think things end up going is that Josh miles will play a ton that he will be there because where they have Cota Martin listed as their backup their third string left tackle you know what I've never seen Cota Martin do in any practice play left tackle I've only ever SE I've only seen h of guard the last two years I was going to say play but yeah play left tackles more accurate um and what it's interesting because they have Brandon Bowen listed as the third string Right Guard but the only place I've seen Bowen play in practice is right tackle so I imagine that now Ryan Pope who is on the on the depth chart is the third string right tackle no longer on the team so after the starters leave and I think that will include Jones is that the the line you're going to see is you know Josh miles harlo at right at left guard which is where he's practiced Max Garcia interesting interesting is how Max Garcia has gone from you know Fillin guy swing guard guy to that he's the Backup backup center and also interesting because that the the releasees Lamont Gillard ended up being weird but I think it makes sense now Max Garcia at least physical is the same type of player as Rodney hunson and I think that's one of the things they wanted to make is Du they they did at Center was get bigger and more physical cuz Mason Cole was a small Center he he was listed at 292 he was under that 300 threshold that you always kind of look at for for centers Hudson's 315 cougler said max Garcia is 315 He's listed at 309 both of those are just strong guys and and I it's going to work nicely to have Garcia there as the backup center and focusing on the one position so I I think it'll be miles harlo Garcia um then either um Cal well they might bring so it'll be Shaq Calhoun maybe or Cotto Martin at Right Guard or maybe they swing U Marcus Henry or Michael manette there at guard first with bro and playe tackle and then when they go third string that Miles and Bowen continue at the tackle positions and then manette Marcus Henry and Cota Martin will then move into those interior spots is how I see that going but now at receiver it's going to be interesting to watch because what Andy Isabella drafted they talked about him as a potentially great slot receiver they gave him work they they tried to make him in the slot receiver Cliff Kingsbury lamented how they probably didn't do him any favors this rookie year last year he really only played this and then the first practice I attend C say how Andy his Outside Inside flexibility then last week or last Saturday said how well it was during the week because people are talking about because and and even the two of us have sort of assumed that Rond Del Moore is a better version of Andy Isabella and C say they're not necessarily battling for the same spot because Isabella is better on the outside which just goes to show more is what they want wanted Isabella to be but he never did now he won't be able to play but He's listed as the backup Z to to AJ Green and kesan Johnson is the primary backup to DeAndre Hopkins I wonder who will be the outside guy after the starters come out because I anticipate or I anticipate that we will see kesan Kirk and maybe it's and well I bet it's pelia who's the who's the Z little yeah fast guy who will be with the starters and then it'll be interesting to see how they or ah or maybe they line Kirk up on the outside and let Rondell play in the slot with the starters that might be what they do yeah and it could be um you know it'll be interesting like you said how they how they go about this and figure out what their what their rotations are um you know one thing we do know Chris trer is not going to be thrown to you know any big talents so he'll be mostly honestly mostly he'll be handing the ball off to Jonathan Ward and and Eno Benjamin interesting thing Eno has gotten all the attention naturally because he played college here at Arizona State Jonathan Ward is still ahead of him and has been clearly ahead of him and everything that we've done but no one talks about Jonathan Ward um so yeah that's that's an interesting thing the the the thing that's goingon to be interesting to watch is they signed OS Smith where does he come in is he G to end up pushing you know yeah and that was going to be my question to you is what is the idos Smith signing mean and you know does it really matter or is this a guy is this the guy you know that's going to get those third quarter carries and and somebody else is going to get the fourth quarter carries and that'll be it yeah I under I understand that um yeah then JoJo Ward is a guy that will interesting to see because they've got him in the slot I've seen him play some outside and then tight end oh I forgot to mention we get to see psycho play burnhard psychovich uh the the Austrian player I'm sure he'll he'll be fun to watch um but yeah then they've got some some small fast guys and and Aliva heo and Greg dorch and then you know an Antoine Wesley is healthy it'll be fun to see at his length what he can do on the outside because yeah there's there's all sorts of things that we're going to look at with that and but yeah Colt McCoy will probably is going to clear the number two he'll get the two snaps you might see him throw the ball more but I think Chris Trel is mostly going to be in the game handing the ball off wouldn't you say unless it's you know just I guess it all also depends on what the game is is because if they're down sort of close and they want to go down and try and have those young guys go and win a game maybe we'll see what he can do with like Drew Anderson did a couple years ago yeah you know and I like Drew Anderson getting those opportunities and like you said maybe they'll find a way to involve strer in a similar way to get him to get opportunities to really um make an impact I know again it's it's not important in the scheme of things but I think it's important for these guys um to begin to understand and really get a sense of uh winning consistently yep let's take a look at the defense so coming out next C podcast best talk on the web let's let's wrap it up and talk about the defensive depth chart that's coming next on RFC red you're back on the rise C red podcast of cardos talk on the web defensive depth chart only one surprise for me and that's based on what I've seen we all assumed Malcolm Butler would be the starter this year with Byron Murphy yet ota's mini camp and training Camp Robert Alfred has been the corner on the field with Murphy in two uh in the in the base set and Butler comes in Butler is listed as a starter alongside Murphy uh with alord behind them which is kind of interesting because of the um kind of like the Justin Murray situation you figured that Alfa would be there and that Butler would eventually overt him but not that Butler probably is not not going to play so we're going to see Alfred um anything that stood out to you no it was you know just based on our discussions it was odd that like you said that Butler was running as the one but I go back to the idea that I think this is going to be a lot of 425 on defense um and I don't know what that that means in terms of four and I don't know what that means in terms of two and I don't know what that means in terms of five and what I mean by that is I don't know if that means the four is going to be four down linean or if it's going to be three down lineman with Isaiah Simmons flexed up um and then the two are Hicks and and Collins and then are the five going to be three safeties into two corners or is it going to be you know a combination of of Alfred um Butler and Murphy with Buddha and Jaylen and so that's kind of my question and I don't think we're going to get any answers right now um because it's the preseason and I don't think we're GNA even know what the defense is going to look like really until week one hopefully hopefully right because we're we're hoping that everybody comes back healthy and ready to go but you know we'll see how it goes I'm I am excited about it um but the the depth chart shows also the the couple of weaknesses that we really have seen and or or I shouldn't say have seen but are concerned about and I think you and I agree uh one of the big concerns is that edge position man it it it's it falls off a cliff pretty fast it does it does absolutely you you like the now especially if you've got watt back in the lineup chanler Jones JJ Watt Marcus golden Devon Canard if you like Dennis arck when he comes back but I don't think it's gonna be till mid mid season after that you're like Kylie Fitz Reggie Walker Victor Dei and as much as we might like Victor gab Dei he has done exactly zero from what I have seen that's significant in Camp um yeah and he's I mean in reality when you watched his film and I talked about it when I wrote about him he's really kind of a a lesser Marcus golden right right that I know they compare him to Marcus golden a lot but Marcus golden was a second round pick well and you know remember the thing that golden has ha he has still that 90% of people don't have his he is unrelenting when he plays he is you know I know it's a joke and I know a lot of people talk about you know oh he's a junkyard dog and all like the dude's motor doesn't stop and that's not something that you can coach it's not something that you can add to a player and and that's just who Marcus golden is and so to compare anybody to that is unfair because 99% of players just don't have that ability right yeah it's he is a special player that that absolutely is um Evan Weaver buried on that depth chart he needs to look good in the preseason he's one of those guys who's kind of been forgotten great game tape in college doesn't he's he's athletic enough but he's not that athletic um and he's he even admitted did this on a on a on a podcast a few months ago when it comes to like in practice he won't stand out in practice he stands out in games so and and that's always a problem I mean that it really is a big issue so hopefully hopefully you get to see him thump some guys in the in the second half of the game I think we probably will see a lot of him thumping guys in the second half of games yeah exactly um any anything else of notes I mean looking at the depth chart oh I goad go ahead I was say I I'm I interested to see what the the kicking situation looks like um we've talked about it you know Andy Lee basically is uncuttable um so what does that mean for for Tyler Nome and where you know what do they do in terms of kickoffs uh because they don't have other kickers right now all right nope he can do both and that's the thing he is so Nome is that camp body but he happens to have a kind of a really really good skill set with punting it means what he's going to do he's going to punt is he's going to kick off in the preseason and yeah now I think that's pretty much what it's going to mean and then I think he's a guy they're going to want to keep either I don't know if they they'll keep him on the practice squad with the 16 player practice squad as it's anticipated to be again this year they probably keep him around or he's on their short list um if anything happens during the season yeah exactly and that's you know that's what is key for guys like him and well with that I think are you I I was gonna ask you one more thing on specials are you expecting more to return anything this weekend no I wouldn't I wouldn't see that at all I think they're going to they're going to I think this I think the situation is this I think the Cardinals are confident in what they know about more in the return game and don't want to now we'll see that and I think they want to give other guys a look at least early at least in this game especially since more just came back um so you're going to see guys like Greg dorch um alifa heo um Eno Benjamin perhaps and a guy like Benjamin it might you know be more important for yeah it'll give him another role he so he can be up on Sunday right if he does it well then he might make the roster where it's supposed to you know if heo comes out and he's returned you know kicks and punts before um then it might do something for him I was just curious what your thoughts were because it seems to be one of the Grand unknowns at this point right especially because you don't know how much he's gonna do it and and the weird thing is that they still got Kirk and Isabella listed as the returners as the primary returners with more behind them and the one thing we've noticed over the last couple of years is that when no matter what that says on the depth chart it's never what it is now Kirk actually did return punts quite a bit Andy Isabella what I think I wrote about he returned like two kicks last year right now part of that is the whole kickoff touch deck thing but but yeah it's it's kind of in terms of returners I don't look at the depth chart and think that's anything real right exactly anything else before we wrap things up no I think that's it I mean we're just excited that we might actually get to see a little NFL action on on Friday and it's going to be very muted and it's going to be very you know mundane but it's still going to be excited that there's football but it's going to be boring as heck when we're watching we're like why are we watching this because we're excited that there's football exactly and that's that's all that matters and with that that will end this edition of the rise up SE red podcast the best of cardinal talk on the web we will back be back again next week to talk about what we saw in the preseason game when we record the Cardinals will have made their first Cuts because on Tuesday they will have to cut their roster from 90 to 85 so we'll have something to talk about they're going to be back the roster guys anyway it's not going to matter but we'll be back again next week that's Seth Cox I'm Jess root thanks for listening as always thanks for listening to the latest edition of the rise up SE red podcast listen to previous episodes and subscribe to the show on Apple podcasts Stitcher radio audioboom or many other podcast platforms so shows are delivered directly to your mobile device please give the show a fstar rating and always support the sponsors who support the show we'll be back soon for the best hour of cardinals talk on the web rise up Red Sea B red C red and of course rise up CED [Applause] [Music] rise up rise up rise up up