The Villemin Family | 38

oh my God chilling what happened oh my God I just can't what hello hey y'all uh this is Rachel that's Rebecca we're identical twins who love true Crown love a plot twist hate the people responsible we are back love a shocking turn of events sure love I'm just kidding it's going to go hate old timey murders if you're new here yeah and that's pretty much the that's the intro um that's the intro that's the vibe here at people are the worst we don't know if we're supposed to say that we're back because we're recording these in January to be released in February and the last one we recorded we're like wait will that be the first one we release or will this one be or our next one be we don't know what order we're going to do so just right bear with us bear with us so with the one we already recorded we did our patreon shout outs though they might go out of order so this time I have a patreon shout out what up Teresa thank you hey Teresa thank you welcome you're GNA get a monthly bonus up uh you have five already in your in your docket so go for it yeah that's the only one only new one that we have to shout we we did a whole hey Teresa hey girl all right well do we have anything else at the top I think that's it uh we're kind of GNA jump right into this one I think because okay this is Rachel I'm telling the story today it's a very well-known case in France this might be the hardest I had to research that's why it's taking me forever well if they're wellknown and there's a lot of sources it takes so much longer well a ton of sources a ton of yeah articles YouTubes everything on it but also it's all within one family and the timeline of events it's the weirdest it's just it's awful I know you told me the name I don't think I know it it's the villon family villon family there's okay yeah it's just taking me forever y'all to do this and I'm like nervous okay we're going to jump into it I I don't actually don't think you know it I'm so excited I know that name and I know that it was like on our list of things that yeah I can't place it so why don't you just tell me what I need to know okay I'm GNA tell you all about it please do sources are a Netflix documentary but I'll tell you the name of it at the end LA Times Irish Times True Crime Recaps on YouTube the guardian and the times which is a UK thing that I had to subscribe to and then cancel after my free subscription as you yes you do free trial Not subscription whatever all right we're in Leon France which is a tiny poor little village like 250 miles from Paris the population in 2015 was 900 oh wow small ass town and we're in 1980 small ass town so Jean Marie and Christine villon got married in 1979 and in 1980 they had their son Gregory Jean Marie worked at a car parts factory and had recently been promoted to factory Foreman he was doing pretty well so they bought a new really nice house just outside of Leon it's like on the Rolling Hills where one article said they were literally looking down on their neighbors it it is a nice like pretty Country House mhm things are great for them but some of jeam Marine's extended family who mostly lived around the area were openly unhappy about the promotion they said it went to his head essentially they were just very jealous mhm and September 1981 they started getting threatening phone calls and letters by someone who became known as The Raven or Crow to investigators and media their nickname is obviously in French which I'm not even going to attempt but please do please come on give the people what they want no I actually can't I would attempted if I put it in here I was like nope disregarded it immediately depending on the source they call him the crow or Raven I'm going with Raven that's what I'm doing in the letters and phone calls the Raven said he's going to seek Vengeance on Jean Marie who he refers to as the little boss that's Gregory's dad correct yeah the Raven was not only harassing jeam Marie and Christine but almost the entire extended family sh's cousins Aunts Uncles everyone got phone calls his parents Monique and Albert seem to especially get a lot of calls most of which seem to go after Monique calling her a [ __ ] whoa like his mom the voice is very raspy and muffled they couldn't even tell if it was a man or woman most of the time he'd make threats and say things like I hate you so much the day you dial spit on your grave like he just hated them especially jeie mhm the villamont told police about the calls and eventually started recording them so you can listen to them online but if you're like me they mean nothing to you cuz they're in French in addition to threatening to hurt or even kill jearie the Raven knew some of the family's deepest darkest Secrets like they knew that they had shunned a Rel relative who was born out of wedlock a grandfather who killed him killed himself specifically hung himself and details of various family fights all of which nobody would have known unless they were in the family all this is where the horror conversation came in from the Raven when he would call jeam Marie's parents Monique and Albert again he often called monikah [ __ ] apparently she met Albert already pregnant with another man's baby and so I think she had the baby they shunned him is the story but it's also really sad because apparently that this is awful that baby was a result of incest because her dad raped her oh yesik so this guy's a monster and she's like I'm not a [ __ ] yeah I'm the victim [ __ ] off so anyway obviously it's a big family secret no one would know that unless they were in the family so they're like okay at least we have one clue yeah the Raven also often brought up how jearie thought he was so much better than everyone after his big promotion so the only thing everyone could come up with was that it's definitely someone in the family who resented the new success historically they were very like poor family very workingclass so when they all of a sudden got successful yeah people were pissed is the odsy I know we can't be happy for someone golly especially family arising Tad lifts all boats but not for them it was like [ __ ] off sometimes the Raven called up to 27 times a day oh my God maybe this guy got a job he'd be successful too if he spent oh my God such a good point if he spent half the time he did being the Raven right he'd be CEO of that factory forget foreman right right Jesus God John Marie and Christine usually handled the phone calls flippantly so he didn't so they didn't show their fear or intimidation like God that which pissed him off really pissed him off so this is like the Raven called him at work one day and threatened to damage his nice new house and jamaru was like oh okay no problem burn it down if you want I'll rebuild it like just oh yeah so he was like fine then I'll hurt Christine you know she's lucky she didn't leave the house the other day I had a trap for her I was going to take her and rape her and J he's like oh okay sweet thank God she didn't leave the house like they doesn't give a [ __ ] yeah and his parents are kind of the same way they do like translate on that documentary especially Monique's conversation with them and they're like like they call him a bastard they don't they're like [ __ ] off okay Raven okay little birdie Fly Away God just like really piss him off yeah so the The Raven took go one step further on this conversation with John Marie at his work and told him that he sees little Gregory playing outside by himself a lot and he better be careful because one day he's going to go out there and he's he'll be dead and J how old is Gregory this point he's at this well so at this point he's between one and four he's a toddler so je Marie finally lost it yeah you threaten my baby yeah if you touch my son I'll kill you and he he's like screaming at him so the Raven knows he hit a nerve with this one and he loves it oh [ __ ] this went on for 4 years oh my God all in all they received 2,000 letters I don't know how many phone calls are estimated but four years and having days with almost 30 calls I mean it's thousands yeah Gregory even started to become aware of the Raven he knew that someone called a lot and his parents didn't know who it was and it got to the point where every single time the phone rang Greg would ask is that Mr Man again oh I know Christina John Marie like reassured them but it was really hard to have their fear in March 1983 they got a letter saying villon family I will murder you if you don't comply I'll make good on the thread I made to the little boss about his little family it's your choice life or death comply with with what right that's what I'm saying what okay I was like did I miss something what's what does he want he's not asking them to do anything I'm like what do you comply with what I'm sure they would have idiot twin moment anyone anyone with a brain moment right well sure but so he's annoying I'm like what do you go ahead please make your demands you've been doing this for four years golly so that was March 1983 in May 1983 they get another letter essentially saying dear idiots it literally says that dear idiots oh my god this is my last letter you won't hear from me again but you'll always wonder who I was you'll never find out bye pretty much and then he goes silent no calls no letters for a year and a half oh my God they're like did they have any way of like responding to him like on the phone would he be would they be like comply with what what are your demands would he say anything nothing on the phone they would have conversations like back and forth sometimes he would hang up sometimes not but that murder you better comply or I'll kill you that was a letter so no they didn't respond there was no way to respond to a letter yeah I'll just assume that he would for four years I'm sure he said that more than once yeah better comply so I was just wondering oh and then like call and they be hey got your letter quick quick Q um what the hell are you talking about comply with what yeah you're an idiot yeah don't call us idiots you're the idiot yeah you're the idiot yeah Raven idiot face birdie how about you cut it out fly into a window stupid such a stupid name anyway so year and a half he says I'm not writing anymore I'm done with this and it's true and they're like finally they're like we won yay great so Jean Marie and Christine are amped they're finally feeling safe again like their lives go back to normal they don't like freak out every time the phone rings on October 16th 1984 Christina's inside ironing and lets four-year-old Gregory go outside to play it's around 5:00 p.m. and she goes to check on him and he's gone oh no she calls police and they get there immediately they're searching all around the property the property is huge she calls pretty much everyone she knows and it sounds like the entire town is looking for them the thought of it because it's such a Tiny Town reminded me actually and I wrote this which is I don't know why but we were in taibe Island two years ago like beach trip family first first time with the kids um with some of our friends and a little boy I guess walked away on the beach when I tell you the in the crowded ass beaches of Georgia like hundreds of people the entire Beach within seconds were screaming this little boy's name oh it was I literally I was like helping obviously everyone was but it like was making me cry like people can really pleasantly surprise you everyone knew what he was wearing what his swimsuit looks like screaming for him and he was found within like 30 seconds he just like got lost good I bet those parents were so appreciative oh my God she was frantic it was like it was heartbreaking people can really come together yeah especially for a kid oh absolutely it was really sweet but that's what it reminded me of the the same thing whole town looking for Greg little baby Gregory mhm at 5:30 pm Gregory's Uncle John's brother Michelle sorry I know these are all French names and American accent butcher them I can't go into a French accent a lot of the sources call Michael and that drove me crazy too I'm like it's not Michael it's Michelle okay he's French come on obviously come on I don't think anyone thinks it's Michael I mean then why are these people saying it okay so Gregory's Uncle it's 5:30 p.m. Michelle got a call from the Raven he said I've kidnapped the boy I've strangled him I've thrown him in the I've thrown him in the bone River I have my revenge pretty much every single first responder of in the small town went to the Bone River and at 9:00 p.m. that night they found Gregory oh my God I know his hands and feet were bound his knit hat covered his entire face oh they determin he died by Drowning oh it's the events of the story that are insane I won't get much more into that about the killing of a child yeah yeah yeah the day after Gregory's murder The Raven sent a letter jamarie that said quote I hope you die of grief boss your money will not bring back your son this is my revenge you bastard dick [ __ ] yeah the murder spread throughout France got a ton of media attention especially as people found out that they' been harassed for four years yeah and like sneaky [ __ ] he just went silent for a year and a half while they just planned this yeah when they least expected it he was goingon to strike again H so sad so in France murder investigations are led by the examining magistrate and judge who at this time was 32-year-old newbie Jean Michelle Lambert I'm gonna call him Lambert yeah we've got a Jean Marie we've got a Michelle now we have a je Jean Michelle no we're not doing that yeah his name's Lambert please don't yeah okay so the investigator's name is Lambert he's 32 years old this was his first investigation with this much media tension he made critical mistakes throughout which the Press was all over I bet it's lambia sure I bet it is well I'm going Lambert okay so he's he's really botching it from the beginning for instance he didn't secure the crime scene or request a full aut autopsy when you see pictures you can see them which is I would not Google this but you can see them pulling Gregory out of the river the entire town is just at the shore they're all it's not taped off everyone is watching it's the most yeah he didn't but it's also the 80s yeah and a town of a hundred people I'm sure at this point yeah it was probably hard to avoid but you could you know request that people maybe get back and like don't touch anything yeah they're just all watching so oh God yeah what about Footprints everything everyone get out of here right he so he didn't um secure the cramp scene he did not request a full autopsy there's a lot more like big mistakes but I'm going to get into those as the timeline goes on but it just goes to show even at the beginning like not requesting a full autopsy on a child that's what I was about to say I can't believe that's not required if a child is murdered it is I wonder if it's just inexperience of this area because I would think the coron or two would be like no I think we actually really need to do one right I'll just do it you know exactly that is just the strangest thing but you said it was determined he drowned they just assume that yeah oh brother I'll get to why that might not be true y I've got I got stuff to get to you know I know I'm sorry yeah I do but I'm antsy I'm an eager I know I'm sorry investigators did find that the letter the villam got the next day was sent from their same Village at the time Gregory would have been kidnapped and after listening to the recorded phone calls they were certain that sometimes it was a man sometimes it was a woman so they were like there's got to be at least two people working together how could they tell that the letter was dropped around the time the stamp oh I thought he I thought it was unmarked I thought he would literally go put him in the mailbox oh no it went through the post office oh great I someone turned in an insulin syringe that they found at the shore of the river where police are certain Gregory was put into the vone and Gregory was not diabetic so no so detectives thought that maybe the killer injected him with insulin to knock them out or kill them all together before throwing them in which would explain this part of of the crown scene that I didn't tell you that but it's it kind of makes it better it would explain the very Serene look on Gregory's face like they said the coroner noted that there was no struggle there was the The Raven that told the uncle that he strangled him like no there it did not look like anything like that gruesome it it really he really thought he must have been injected with something to to make him not pass out because his face was very Serene which is really sad that is really sad but yeah also comforting I would rather him be asleep while so it's not like a true struggle drowning situation they're very confident it was and what's weird is apparently an insulin wouldn't have shown up on the autopsy anyway which is so weird really I don't know if that's a 1984 problem or I don't I mean it has to be but yeah I guess it doesn't matter because Lambert told them to throw out the syringe again while you're doing a child's murder keep everything why not it's a Ziploc bag right it doesn't take up much room just keep everything in that evidence Locker right so stupid but anyway it was it would have been evidence because that was a conclusion that the coroner hypothesized when he saw Gregory and then someone found a syringe and they're like oh wait maybe that's true that could be true and detectives like went to Lambert and he said thir it out okay well you're starting to look suspicious because you can't be this idiotic I know so so after that two witnesses came forward with almost identical descriptions of a suspicious man with dark hair a mustache and sburns in town that day which is just telling of us Tiny Town there like there's a man that we didn't recognize so please did a sketch and it looks exactly like Jean Marie's cousin Bernard lar Ro imagine in the 80s it looks like every man but that's kind of mustache of a tal of so small yeah yeah and it it looks exactly like them mhm Bernard's handwriting also very closely resembled some of the letters that the vmon received handwriting analysis plays a big part in the story get ready buckle up okay Bernard had an alibi for most of the day of Gregory's murder except for about 45 minutes around that time which is sketch he also lived next door to and was best friends with Michelle Gregory's uncle and J's brother who received the phone call saying where Gregory was which turned out to be true mhm if those weren't enough red flags a reporter was interviewing him about the murder in years of harassment and he said And the reporter said he was oddly Cavalier about the topic of a dead child especially one he was related to right when reporters pushed on he started getting really fired up about how the villans treated him like an outsider and pretty much said they deserve what they got because they're [ __ ] he's as he's saying this he's like slamming his fist on the the table like he's really fired up oh wow reporter's like okay calm down BRB and like slowly you seem really hot-headed about your poor little four-year-old dead cousin a picture the Homer Simpson meme where they back up where he backs up like into the bushes I don't know it yes you do no it's send it to me sounds great I'll send it but it's if I were the reporter that's what I'd be doing CU I'm like clearly you're psycho uhhuh byebye yeah I got a jet you've been great though you've been great but you're getting a little too heated about a child's death and how they deserved it yeah did did the little boy deserve it no get out of here get out of here I'm going to talk to the detectives it has nothing to do with this yeah don't worry don't follow me oh my God so the detectives also said he seemed completely oblivious to the investigation like didn't seem to have the urgency to talk to them to figure out who the killer was like he just did not care Bernard and Jean Marie were actually very very close growing up but after jeam Marie got married and started becoming successful Bernard became very resentful on top of that he hated Christine who J's wife and Gregory's Mom hated people in this family cannot be happy for one another they just it's not a thing no no immediately to jealous and yeah he resentful he Bernard was like the black sheep like he was cuzz he's an [ __ ] he's an [ __ ] can't be happy for he was always like trailing behind jeie is what it sounds like and like then they both had babies at the same time and like everyone loved Gregory and his Bernard's baby had like a severe learning disability which is sad I mean it's it's he was just very jealous like Bernard or jary was ahead in life and he was just resentful so he also hated Christine said she was arrogant the two were strange for sure they were close growing up but noo yeah the investigators were questioning all of the families where abouts that day because again the Raven is in the family yeah but they were becoming very interested in Bernard they T to Bernard's 15-year-old sister-in-law Mariel Bulls so Bernard's married to her older sister okay they all lived together they so they talked to her Muriel and she said on October 16th she came home from school around 5:30 and Bernard was already home that's very confusing because Bernard told them the opposite saying he got home at 5:30 and Muriel was home so they're like hm okay cool Muriel how'd you get home that day and she said she took the bus but after looking into her story more they found out that the bus driver she described wasn't working that day and two of her friends came forward and said she wasn't on the bus she got into a car after school oh brother so investigators go back to Muriel and they're like we know you're lying just tell us what's up and she finally breaks down saying she was picked up from school by Bernard and Bernard's son Sebastian who's little he's just in the car he has nothing to do with this she said they drove to a nearby town that she wasn't familiar with Bernard got out of the car went into a house with a red roof and came back with a little boy they drove to another town Bernard stopped again got out with the little boy then got back in the car without him and then and then they drove home oh my God on November 5th 1984 Bernard is arrested for Gregory's murder mhm shortly after his arrest Muriel went on National TV to publicly retract her story she said police intimidated her and were yelling at her to agree with the narrative that they made up or else she was going to be sent to a Reformatory which come on she said Bernard is completely innocent this is another mistake made by investigator Lambert after Muriel gave her statement to police saying Bernard did it or not did it but like something sketchy that was a sketchy chain of right Lambert had an impromptu press conference and revealed what she said oh my God so everyone in the family or everyone including the family knew that she implicated them then Lambert allowed her to go home where Bernard lives oh my God she was allowed to go home with the rule that she wasn't allowed to talk about this what how are you going to enforce that right so while some people do believe that police intimidated her and and she did make it up because she was intimidated yeah most think she went home got the [ __ ] beat out of her bar her entire family until she agreed to recant it and this especially became a parent when one of her cousins Patrick confirmed that that is what happened literally they beat they abused her until she was like okay I'll take it back how old's Sebastian we don't know not talking age because he was in the car too right yeah the picture I saw of Bernard Sebastian his wife probably Gregory's a they s close and age oh so not but he's has a learning disability the articles I read were all from 1993 and they actually used the r word oh god um but Muriel stuck by Bernard saying he's innocent and the family had no influence on her recanting it sure yeah [ __ ] there's anything I know from this family so far I know even after she took it back Bernard stayed in jail but the court throughout the handwriting analysis that said he wrote that letter or some of the letters and without it they didn't have enough evidence to hold him so he was released on February 4th 1985 Jean Marie was completely convinced that Bernard was responsible for this and he was Furious that he was allowed to walk free after a couple months in jail yeah on March 29th 1985 after jere visited little Gregory's grave he made good on his promise to the raven that he'd kill him if he touched his son oh my God yes John Marie went over to Bernard's house and shot him dead in the front yard in front of his wife and father-in-law oh my God talk about a Vengeance yeah on his Tombstone his family wrote here rest Bernard lar Ro innocent V victim of blind hatred eventually jeamar was arrested and give him five years in prison but he was given credit for time served while he was awaiting trial so he ended up only serving like two and a half years for murder oh my God I think the court was like I mean he thinks they he the dude killed his kid like come on yeah so he he got very bare minimum wow four months after jearie shot Bernard investigators had a new suspect oh [ __ ] it's if this isn't Bernard well God okay he's dead and gone I know Christine villon Gregory's mom why appar well I'm gonna tell you right this moment oh sure sure where if prob like I don't know anyway that's the story apparently early in the investigation the judge was receiving Anonymous letters telling him to look into Christine I don't know exactly what they said but every single article described them as threatening so obviously it's not real evidence against her but there are other reasons for example four separate women who used to be co-workers of Christine so they knew her said they saw her at the post office right before the murder four out of five handwriting experts said the letter they got the day after Gregory's murder was Christine's handwriting the fifth one the fifth expert was not convinced Christine said she was listening to the radio when Gregory was kidnapped but couldn't remember what was said on the program she was listening to which I don't think it's weird at all me neither it's like background noise I'm like that can't be any sort of valid evidence no well no it's obviously not evidence but they were like how sketchy I'm like I couldn't tell you what I was listening to when I'm in a dead stare on it I have no idea God yeah your mind wanders she was a four-year-old for God's sake they found rope in the villon's Attic that matched very very closely matched the rope that was on Gregory but there speculation that the police planted it there just to have a reason to arrest her because they were getting a lot of pressure from the public of like solve this really that people didn't weren't like all right it was Bernard and he's dead now so solved no people weren't satisfied with that oh God okay so this is enough to arrest her the Rope all of those together the four Witnesses saying she was at the post office is weird yeah I guess that's the only really weird thing to me back then even the ohing analysis but did she do her A's funky or something like I'd love to see it U Google it I'll post I'll post some some of the letters they're different sometimes they're like big block letters sometimes they're not yeah so this was enough and in July 1985 now pregnant with twins Christine villan is arrested oh God she was outraged and joh Marie is same she's like they're like no way she went on an 11-day hunger strike and protest with twins she's pregnant yet again there wasn't sufficient evidence to hold her anyway so she was released but she collapsed due to the hunger strike and end up miscarrying one of the twins no which is so sad I'm also like and I can only imagine if you're innocent and you're being accused of killing your kid and you've been through like all this but but putting your other two kids in danger severe danger like I was like oh there is something going on I mean come on you can't do a hunger strike you're pregnant with twins so she did she lost one of her babies oh God she was officially cleared in February 1993 eight years later but there's a ton of debate around town on if she's actually innocent and her reputation is pretty much ruined forever she wrote was there a way in 19 in the 80s to like absolutely match the rope and the Rope or something I need like hard evidence cuz even at the post office like I know it's all very circumstantial seems yeah I know no they they it just said that looks similar yeah I I just need a little more you'll get more hold on thank you except you won't you'll see how satisfying I know very she wrote a book called let me tell you declaring her innocence but a court later ordered her to give all the proceeds to Bernard's children what are you kidding she's like he killed my son like there's no good firm evidence that he did there's very firm evidence that her husband killed him but I'm like you take up with him you take that up with je I'm not giving you this yeah no they're married still so I guess that's bizarre to me that infuriates me so right after Christine was cleared Lambert the first prosecutor who was by the way removed from the case in 1987 sure why he wrote a book called The Little judge where he says he is convinced she's guilty H he doesn't mean my I mean he's not that credible I know he's a really botched up the investigation yeah for real after Lambert was removed judge Maurice Simon took over the case and he also started getting Anonymous threatening letters implicating Christine and pushing him to continue looking at her but he was like she's cleared we're good eventually like he took over 1987 I think he um the investigation goes on but they don't look into her anymore after 1993 yeah they're good yeah throughout the years the investigation has been open and closed several times Specialties Advanced Technologies become available in 2001 they did a DNA test on a stamp from one of the letters but it was inconclusive damn in 2004 John Marie and Christine were were awarded €35,000 EUR for personal damages due to shortcomings and failures of the investigations thanks to Lambert that was around $42,000 USD before you ask in 2008 they opened it again at Christine and Je Marie's request and looked at the bindings found around Gregory and more of the stamps from the letters because remember they have 2,000 of them yeah both inconclusive in April 2013 they tested the DNA on Gregory's clothing which they knew was unlikely to have anything since he was underwater but they were like we have to do everything we can and we have this technology inconclusive okay with modern handwriting technology and Linguistics an analysis they confirmed with certainty that The Raven was definitely two different people a man and a woman remember in 1984 it was just like they were certain confident but now it's 100% confirmed so that's a small development but nothing substantial it's been decades all the DNA is inconclusive very frustrating in June 2017 they announced again they're reopening the case a month later in July judge Lambert took his own life oh he left a note sorry for insulting you well he left a note saying the pressure he faced with the new investigation was unbearable oh my God he really didn't want more scrutiny of how much he botched it so he he was like I can't do this anymore isn't that sad that's really he's noted as a victim of this whole case too he is oh that's upsetting the reason they reopened it this time is because there was a new software called anacam that could flag inconsistencies with someone's statement so police submitted all the recordings from over a 100 Witnesses they interviewed back in the 80s which was mostly the villon's extended family pretty much they found several inconsistencies with one couple in particular you have not met them yet Mar Marcel and jacine Jacob this is Jean Marie's aunt and uncle so Gregory's great aunt and uncle they're in their 70s at this point and anacam found a lot of inconsistencies in their original statements plus their alibas for that day were unconfirmed and unsubstantiated a another botch in the investigation they also found an inconsistency with Muriel's statement and determined that she knew more than she was admitting obviously plus a witness had recently come forward saying they definitely saw her in the car with Bernard that day I don't know why this witness waited but they did well she said that I know she recanted it but right but we all pretty much knew that was true I know um Muriel continued denying it and still maintain that she made the story up blah blah blah intimidated by police most do not believe that Marcel jacine and Muriel are all arrested this is June 20 or at this point July 2017 but for the third time because there wasn't enough evidence they were released God they also found out that the person behind the threatening letters to the judges saying look into CH Christine was Monique Von J's mom what One Source said the DNA on the stamp actually did match hers no other source said that and with so much inconclusive DNA I think more Source sources would have said that but it her sending the letters why did she think that why is everyone so certain on the theory is because Marcel and jacine are now new suspects the theory is Marcel is her brother she probably knew they were involved the whole time and to just steer the investigation away from them she just her daughter-in-law why don't she stick with the narrative that Bernard did it and it's over it's just weird Jean Marie and Bernard are really the only ones that were on outs people like loved they I think they were a united front that family I think a lot of people knew who did it and they were going to protect them to the end and if some girl that je met that most of them didn't like married into the family they're like oh we'll just throw her under the bus yeah so they they questioned her in 2017 and she denied it which throwing a wrench in the in the investigation is illegal I'm sure she could have gotten in trouble but all in all like she wrote letters to the judge I don't think it's she she wasn't going to go to jail but she was like no that wasn't me yeah and and it's your opinion you can say yeah I think she did it what I know but if you're covering up if you're covering up I don't know yeah yeah but unless they can prove that I just think it's so weird that they if you want to have Marcel and Jack Jac's back like it could have just died with Bernard if you just like why go through a whole other hoopla if if anything this this family has proven not to be loyal but I mean I guess they liked Bernard that much me like we we don't want him to die with this reputation yeah which which is fair but I don't see it from this family well and the investigation didn't die with Bernard they were like they didn't have enough to hold him so investigators didn't think obviously that he did it so um they were carrying on questioning everyone so she was questioned in 2017 if she did that she kept saying no in April 2020 she died of covid oh so she went to the Grave with that one but most are pretty sure she was doing that mhm in 2018 Muriel published a book called breaking the silence everyone be making money off this it's really she maintains in the book that Bernardo was innocent and says Patrick the cousin who said that she was beaten into changing her statement was a liar so Patrick sued her for defamation and won oh okay I mean and I don't know what he got for winning but if 34 years later he's sticking to a story and being like no I'll go as far as suing you to protect my reputation I just believe him I'm sorry I just believe me too what would he have to gain by saying that back then yeah it obviously there's an ass beating that could happen so he really took a risk yeah the person responsible for Gregory's murder is still unknown what although Johan Marie and Christine are still very confident it was Bernard they're all in on that well I think they've convinced themselves of that a lot of people think that yeah his accompli is debated but most people do think it's either Muriel or Marcel and jacine or all of them Muriel is especially sketchy when it became known that Muriel's mom had diabetes and then and the nurse who treated her told detectives that she showed Muriel how to administer insulin but she couldn't remember if it was before or after Gregory's death but she definitely had access to it I was gonna ask of the three who had access to insulin Muriel a lot of people 15 at the time my God I know but yeah that's I know that's insane so young that's insane what's in it for her right you're not even blood related yeah she didn't even know who the little boy in her first statement she wouldn't have even known Gregory they' never met oh yeah she said little boy yeah was like she didn't know this little boy a lot of people also question J's brother Michelle and his wife Janette Michelle's the one who got the call saying where Gregory was again he was neighbors and best friends with Bernard and apparently he was also very nervous during questioning even years later like even judge Simon who took over questioning him he was very nervous and they're like chill all in all I think a lot of people in the family knew who was responsible and they're all covering up for that person they were just like United friend Gregory's grave was attracting so much attention with tourists and media who even years later were just fascinated by this case that Jean Marie and Christine had him exume so they could cremate him like let him rest in peace yeah this is like the biggest unsolved case in in Fr I mean yeah I'm sorry in France but the family knows why do you have this murderers back and not your own little nephew grandson child like come on I think see I hate to be an armchair expert I think that every single person that family did resent the villamont for becoming successful every single one parents everyone so they were like if he's going to break the family with this affluent lifestyle and he's going to forget about all of us then we don't care about any of them even little poor Gregory I don't know so they're like we're going to protect blood or like I mean Gregory's blood but I don't know did did his friends or W other Witnesses back up this he's an [ __ ] now because I just feel like when you've been poor most your life and you've worked hard and you're now successful you don't immediately become an [ __ ] you remember the struggles you're still that well some people do poor boy no you don't know that I mean some people do I guess but did anyone else back that up like it's just seems like it's just the family saying that yeah I don't know no I think they're a little jealous and it just that is a very clear I know but they're a little sensitive or something like maybe I don't want to go to that family dinner and they're like oh you're a rich [ __ ] now I don't know of course so we're going to kill your s son get out of here I know it's disgusting so I don't know what year they did that they exed them and cremated them cuz they were sick of the hoopla at his poor grave site um the article didn't say what year but it's sad let them rest really sad Jean Marie and Christine had three more kids and moved to a town just south of Paris in December 2020 the case was yet again reopened and as far as I know it's still open here's what we do know about it a Swiss company took over the handwriting analysis but results are not public or they're still working on it it didn't say police are also investigating new theory that Bernard kidnapped Greg as Muriel said and then when he got out of the car he passed them off to Marcel and jacine Jacobs to car to carry out the murder that's that's an investigator Theory at the moment I could see that they're also investigating someone new who they obviously won't name and they have new Witnesses also who they will not name O Okay so we're going to get some updates so this was as of December 2028 so hopefully it actually and the investigator said he's confident they're going to be able to solve it hopefully it will be solved in J and Christine's lifetime for sure yeah they're probably getting real old so the Netflix documentary was called who killed little Gregory that I said I wouldn't say at the beginning I just didn't want youall to know exactly I've heard of that yeah it's good oh I've heard of that and that's the France biggest unsolved mystery holy [ __ ] isn't that like there's so many like twists turns people relatives cousins a uncle remind me what the evidence against jacine and um I know they actually don't have alibas or their their alibas were were unconfirmed um and then their statements that flag anac flag the most inconsistencies can't say that word today can you how does it track it how does it track inconsist like has the timline and then it's like I guess I don't know like I want to know literally how they track it it's like a Monitor and like that timeline and they're like well we went from our house to the store and they like do a do this technology like do a little map on how long that would take I want to see it no I think it's yeah stories changing like they I think the family every family member was interviewed a million times I'm sure so they probably had to rehash where they were that day several times I think it's mhm when those are different and then probably there's probably some voice analysis like you got really H pitch during this sentence Oh yeah what's that about type thing yeah which is so fascinating to me that Ty of Technology it's like that story of the college girl I can't think of her name but she was killed in Mississippi in her dorm room and they're like interviewing someone oh and she every time I already have on that I know but every time the suspect being questioned looks left like apparently as humans we look left to when we're thinking creatively IE lying or making something out and right if we're just recalling a memory like what time did you get home 11: like your eyes don't change but what time did you get home well I and the person interviewing like you keep looking left but he's he's not saying that out loud he's not he's just like noticing like that's a lie and she's like how do you know I'm lying and and he's later tells that you're stepping on the toes I already have dibs on that story I'm not going to tell you who it is so you don't look it up but I know it's not necessarily left or right it's everyone has their everyone has right if you're recalling something you do one thing if you're being creative and making something up you're doing another and it's it's insane it is it's insane I was like wait this is so interesting and she like says during the interview are you a m reader yeah yeah the person being question like you you can read my mind can't you and he's like oh yeah we could go with that yes sure sure that's cool well that was yeah that's a lot R that's a lot that's why it took me so long so many people I don't know well good one thanks I hope it gets solv soon I've been putting it off because of that December 2020 Revelation because I'm like surely there's about to be a break and I'm like it's 2023 and there still has not been so I'm just GNA do it and France I'm glad you did France if you're listening I hope I did little Gregory Justice he is a cutie pie I bet it kind of reminds me of America's Lost Boy case okay well good one thanks everyone thank y'all hope you enjoyed oh oh wait real quick write review subscribe write something in the comments please it really really helps yeah please and hit that download button not just play that that also very much helps please oh my gosh y'all we can like barely track actual listeners without y'all downloading right it's it's weird everything's weird you know I know and apple charts reviews comments and actual downloads so just hitting play well I mean it nice it's helpful because it means you're listening we would really appreciate if you actually hit download there three dots download Episode thanks thank y'all and if you subscribe it automatically downloads so there's that so just subscribe or follow I think now it's called follow oh follow okay all right there's our spiel thank than you so much bye bye [Music] [Applause]