[Music] welcome to the Leader Post Rider Rumblings podcast episode number 145 Taylor Shire and Daryl Davis with you for another week and Daryl if you're a regular listener of this podcast you've heard us talk about the command center several times before obviously the command center played a big game a big part in in the Riders last game a 2222 tie over the Ottawa red blacks where it really came down to the command center determining the fin play and and determining essentially that the game would end at a TI although the Riders needed to stop um so I'll give you the floor because you've been hard on the command center and rightfully so for uh sort of all of the situations that the command center has been involved in this year not just in Rider games but overall in the CFL especially highlighted on Thursday yeah that's the problem is it gets too involved Taylor it's just that's why I call it the god Center you never know when God's Wrath is going to come down from the from the ERS Booth it's not even they're not even at the games they're in a booth in Toronto it's former officials and former players deciding oh little Ticky tack things and you never know when they're showing up that's what bothers people bothers me more than anything else you know I hate video review I've hated it since the very start because everybody talked about a slippery slope don't worry this won't be a slippery slope we know where we're going to stop it's not going to get carried away well they're carried away and the command center can't help itself now it's spiraling so out of control that you never know when they're going to jump in and when they're not and that's the most infuriating thing it did play a a huge role in the in the final outcome of the game in Ottawa and I don't think that it should be up to anybody who's not on the field it should be totally up to the onfield officials who are doing a good job but are being stripped from of all their responsibility by the command center and the players everybody makes mistake let them make mistakes on the field and because you're never going to get a perfect game the command center thinks they can get a perfect game they can't they're ruining it even worse because they make a lot of mistakes so let's just go back to at the very least the way it was intended which was very minimal it was only supposed to come in for obvious mistakes now it comes in all the time whenever it wants and makes even more mistakes yeah the one debate I would say is the command center and like you said they're not perfect and that's maybe the most frustrating part but are we is it better off that we're talking about the command center overstepping and video review overstepping or would we rather be served talking about a missed call that ended a game and and cost a team a victory because of the onfield officials missing a call or or making a call that was wrong so so that's sort of the debate that runs in my head of of would you rather have a missed call end a game or would you rather have the command center ruin the flow of the game and ruin the natural progression of the game and and have this weird ending that everyone's talking about so it's kind of a a double-edged sword of would you rather have a Mis like obviously you want to be perfect but I'm totally on the former on your first statement there Taylor that I would rather have a Miss call or something that you can debate and say oh boy but they're only human you say and maybe they weren't in the quite the right position so they'll work to get in the right position next time all we ever do is talk about players mistakes right that's what makes that's what usually scores a touchdown if there's not a breakdown somewhere or somebody doesn't miss a coverage there's not going to be it's going to be zero zero probably right so those things happen allow them to happen it's a human game right if you want it played by robots go play video games something because that's that's all determined by the computer you can't determine the way humans are reacting the spontaneity that you mentioned that's what I love about all sports it's spontaneous uh it happened that that game right they're celebrating the Rough Riders are celebrating everybody's walking off the field and leaving the coaches are coming down the fans are going we're starting to write our stories and get everything ready and then oh the command center is reviewing that last call and you go oh no this is going to be remember the uh Professional Women's Hockey League had did that too oh the Champions oh wait a minute and that's what I hate about video review the fact that you have this wonderful spontaneous celebration following a great play it's over oh no wait a minute we've got some Ticky tack little rules here that are going to make sure that it's done right and it just ruins the entire event yeah yeah Adam McClair jumps on the fumble looks like the Riders have won everybody like you said celebrates and then all of a sudden the the play is under review I just I also don't know like at what point like how much time has to elapse before the command center can come in and say something what if in five minutes they're like oh look at this play we we right like so that to be are you sure that game's official to they might go back and redo it G come back and and review every game that we've ever played and oh it's a it it obviously needs to change and I I don't know the CFL would probably admit that at all something needs to change in terms of how the how the command center steps in and and when they step in and maybe we need the the referee to go under the hood again like he used to on the sidelines and and bring back that little replay booth and he can make the call that took a long time from what I can recall when when the referee used to go under the hood as as we called it but something needs to change and I think something will change based on sort of the outcry after that game on Thursday yeah I think so too I I don't I think it's impossible for the CFL to not say that they they've heard the the complaints about it right I'm sure it's not just the fans and the media bitching about it it's got to be the the players and the the teams and the coaches have to be saying what are you doing you guys come on let's just play the game a little bit more they've gone overboard the leite you know I remember Kent Austin saying uh when he was coaching Hamilton saying there's all this lwh hanging fruit that we can fix by a couple of video review challenges and then all of a sudden they're going uh rather than just the cut and dry penalties all of a sudden it's a pass interference penalties isn't even that pass interference penalty yes it was pass interference because uh McGee was the defensive back I think who hit Bane the Riders Receiver right and if there was no flag throne but if you slow it down and you get three different angles just a split second before the ball gets there Bane gets hit and gets knocked out of the play okay it's pass interference they didn't call it because it's such a bang bang play that you think okay let's just keep going oh no let's let the video review come in in the command center and decide we're going to change the outcome of that one I I just don't like the fact that if it's not called on the field the officials are good the CFL has you know I know people don't like officials and they compare them to everybody but this CFL has really good officials they're they're well taught what did they do a study I remember them saying that officials were correct 97.4% of the time or something right so let them do it if they make 2% error that's way fewer than smaller percentage than the players make so let's just let it go and let's just play the game we would have been out of there 45 minutes earlier too right after all the all the commotion and everything and then obviously overtime obviously added a lot to it but it just you know and maybe it made the game more exciting in the end of it but uh it made it a lot more controversial too and I don't think they want that yeah and and really we've talked for the first seven minutes of this podcast we've talked about this one play that the command center overruled we haven't talked about the football game so to me it was it was quite a boring I guess first half couldn't get anything going I think the rain played a big part in that um but then the Riders respond late to put a touchdown on the board and then after so so Bane makes that touchdown and then and then Roland Milligan gets a nice interception it looks like okay the Riders are going to close this thing out they go down they can only muster a field goal to take uh it was the 1310 lead at that point and then they let kind of Ottawa come back in the game on that last drive to to let Lewis Ward kick that field goal with zero seconds left to tie the game and force overtime so really there was a lot of chances for this this team to pick up the win in the first the first four quarters of the game you're right it was really boring at the beginning it got exciting and you know when you think about how the Riders rallied at the end that that's pretty impressive lost in all this commotion about the command center is that the Riders played the gutsy game and maybe it was it last week's podcast or what something that I wrote in the in the leader post that uh this is virtually unwinable I did not think they had any chance on a short week playing a team that's coming off a bye traveling East with all the injuries the Rough Riders had you know it was going to take a spirited effort you knew that they would play hard they they've only had one bad game and that was the the loss to Edmonton but otherwise they've played exceptionally hard and I thought even with a hard playing football team they're not going to win they can't win and somehow whatever they did it's a pretty spirit I know that the there nobody's happy with the tie but you can't be totally disappointed either the fact that they were able to at least get one point out of it hey after the weekend it's kept them in first place that tie right in the west so that's pretty impressive tie in very tough situations yeah you obviously take a tie rather than a loss it very well could come down to playoff spot in terms of where they see that that extra point we'll call it um could determine a lot of things in the west division standings all right uh we've talked a lot about the last week game but we got to talk about this week's game saskat set to host Montreal on Friday night and it looks like Trevor Harris could be making his return to the lineup as he's been getting first team reps at practice for the first time in seven weeks I I guess since that knee injury in week three so Harris obviously provides a big boost to this uh this team's lineup and um and like I said could be back and should be back on Friday night yeah that he gives them a lot of confidence uh we've talked a lot of on on this podcast about the Shay Patterson and uh you and I have thought he's done okay he hasn't cost the team and I know people are expecting more out of him I I always think there's kind of an edict that the the starting quarterback wins games for you if you're playing with the losing quarterback all you want from him is to not lose games for you and I think he did a pretty good job of that he's two three and one as a starting quarterback he got great experience uh late in that Ottawa game man he's he constructed two touchdown drives pretty impressive so maybe it wasn't his greatest game he's had some some decent games some some okay games but he hasn't really cost the football team too severely so the fact that he's stepping aside now he's in a a safe spot as the backup but Trevor Harris uh despite other people's thoughts earlier on he is still the leader of this football team they're really looking forward to him you can probably just tell that it crackles a little bit they didn't let Shay Patterson run very much anyhow you know Trevor Harris isn't going to run very much uh so the offense won't change a whole lot but it will be a lot better run a little bit more efficient because Trevor Harris's experience it just makes such a difference over top of the the Sha Patterson's inexperience yeah and sha Patterson um Cory B said the same thing Trevor Harris said the same thing that Shay didn't lose the many games he kept them in games and really gave the Riders a chance to win but then when I talked to Shay Patterson on Monday uh after practice I mentioned that to him and he said he wanted to he's his owner critic he said he wanted to he's disappointed that he didn't grasp the games and he didn't go out and win them games and so he wanted to be six and0 in his six starts and and he wanted to be the guy that takes the game by the horns and and goes up and wins it so sure I think you always want to go six and0 in your six starts and and throw 50 touchdown passes but overall when you look at it I think shade progressed got better and I think he showed well for if we look at what this team might have for quarterback in the quarterback stable next year like he could be a guy after what he showed in six games to to consider to bring in the camp and compete for a number one job obviously a lot of things can can change from now to then but uh but based on what he he showed as a Young quarterback I think there's something there with I think so too and just the experience made him better and now that he'll be watching a little bit you know hopefully Trevor Harris doesn't get hurt we we always say we never want but he he he'll be more confident if he does have to go back in but he'll also be able to sit on the sidelines and watch what's going on and and realize what it's like in the pace of the game so I think it's going to be a huge benefit for Shay Patterson and and maybe down the line he is a starting quarterback right uh at the mo moment Trevor Harris is 38 years old coming off two major knee injuries on different knees over two seasons so how long does he still have left in his career the riders need to have somebody in place is Shay Patterson the answer not 100% but he's way ahead of where he was uh Trevor Harris is absolutely going to get this football team through this year I can't see them bivi Mitchell and him no matter what happens uh and Trevor Harris will lead them as far as they can and I think they'll be a better offense even with all the changes they've had to make uh the offensive line has really taken a beating uh so the defensive line hey the defense played pretty well in Ottawa but the offense struggled a little bit did okay with a a whole bunch of new offensive linemen they've juggled once again they're juggling their receiving core a bit they'll probably have AJ olette back in the backfield and so I think they'll be coming back to a little bit more normal what we expect of the ref Riders on offense yeah and if you look at the sort of if you take a snapshot of the West Division standings right now Saskatchewan is in first place it's way too early to say that that they're going to be first place in in at the end of the season but they're in control of their own destiny right now and their starting quarterback their number one quarterback is healthy so if you look at it and you say back in in week one if you said oh Trevor Harris gets hurt and misses six games Shay Patterson takes over yet this team is still in first place in week 11 I think you'd take it if you're a fan of this team oh yeah absolutely where they are is is pretty good especially with the parody in the west these days Edmonton's starting to look pretty decent too right Calgary I'm still thinking is the weakest team in the west but uh and what's happened to the BC Lions right and Winnipeg certainly capable of winning at any time so it it's really a tossup in the west and the fact that they're on top right now really speaks well of the team and and the it's its preparation its enthusiasm and its ability to overcome some really drastic hardships so they've done they've done really well and uh I I can't see a whole lot of major weaknesses going forward is this team comes back to health you would think that they're going to start getting healthy you don't know about their offensive they've gone through a few of them we'll see how the the next guys uh uh progress but uh to think that they've had to start 10 or 11 different offensive linemen this this season is really quit a statement and still be in first place it's really impressive yeah and I think every football team says next man up and and I've heard it here over the years and and that's again something that they're preaching but that next man up mentality is something uh that has been said a lot through these injuries and and how they don't want to miss a Beat beat with whoever's up whether it's Shay Patterson at quarterback whether Frankie hickon their fourth right tackle uh even on the defensive side they were without jir Thurman last week CJ ay stepped in and played okay it looks like Thurman's actually going to be back he was placed on the six game injured list but was fully limited I guess they called him on Monday um but the fact that he's been pulled off the six game injured list likely means he's going to be get back in the lineup so that's sort of a a sigh of relief that their leader on defense isn't going to be out long term that's going to be a big boost to to this team on Friday night yeah uh Roland Milligan played another good game in the secondary right the uh Rivas is pretty decent obviously they I was really impressed with considering how uh shallow they are on their defensive line missing Anthony lanir I thought that was going to be huge right they're missing charbel deir they're missing a bunch of guys on the defensive line and yet who block the two field goals two interior defensive linemen right Michel Johnson played a great game one of his best this year not that he's played weakly poorly at all he's been great but on the inside of that line was just outstanding and guys Caleb Sanders and uh miles Brown played quite a bit beside him and imagine blocking a field goal from the inside as a defensive tackle the these guys are often the short stocky guys right and they were able to get their arms up and block Lewis Ward which were huge plays when you think about it because any tie game any Point's going to make a difference so uh not only did they play well on defense and do a great job stop in the running game of the Ottawa red BLX but they also did a good job cooling down one of the League's best kickers now of course they will play Montreal on Friday and Montreal is I would say the top team in the league right now based on how they've looked this year if you event if you look at everybody's Power Rankings Montreal would be number one um but the Riders I think Will Make some noise on Friday night with Harris returning uh at the time we're recording this podcast on Monday we don't know if Cody Fardo is going to play if Davis Alexander is going to come in and and uh do what he did against the team just this team just a few weeks ago so I I think Saskatchewan has some film on Davis Alexander obviously if it is him and on the other side they know Cody Fardo quite well so uh Montreal will be a tough opponent though this week regardless of who's at quarterback for them that's true yeah uh Davis Alexander looked a little uh like he's adjusting to the position he's getting a little cockier and he threw some terrific balls in The Montreal's last game the fact that they're doing this and continuing to win and continuing to stay in first place without Cody vardo at the controls is pretty impressive fj's been gone what this is his second season outside of gone from Saskatchewan the rider they've played the Riders twice and he hasn't played in either the games we keep wondering when will he play against Saskatchewan you know does he want to come back here to Saskatchewan H probably not but it's part of the part of the job isn't it so uh and he he shouldn't have to worry uh you know Cody Fardo for what whatever happened it was a good move for him him and Jason Moss moving to Montreal uh you could be hurt and say oh that's too bad or you can say um you know what look at the opportunity we got together we w a we want a gray cup together and realize that people didn't really hate Cody Fardo they have some nitpicking things about him but uh the move was great for him and they don't resent him for leaving the Rough Riders right they he wasn't resigned so he was free to go wherever he wanted uh I remember like when Daren Durant came back in the offseason and now he's around quite a bit uh there was always that oh boy how are people going to treat me well they're GNA treat Cody fero okay he he was really good for this franchise for all they might boo him on the field but that's all pretty good-hearted stuff that's the way it goes with football right so I look forward to him I hope that he's playing um it would be a lot better and it would be a great matchup for Trevor Harris to come back and Cody Fardo to come back and play against each other uh for their respective teams because that's a pretty good quarterback Showdown for the Canadian Football League yeah it's still going to be battle for first place or sorry a battle of two first place teams obviously Montreal is is ahead in the entire CFL standings um but yeah we've been waiting for the Trevor Harris Cody fadoo match up for it seems like a couple years now so I don't know if we'll get it on Friday but uh figures cross like I said we haven't heard the update from Montreal alloet Camp yet um but it should be a good game regardless uh the Riders I think they'll carry a bit of I think they'll bring a bit of momentum forward with with Harris returning I think the defense is playing well and I I think they've learned a lot from that loss to monreal a few weeks back um in terms of what it takes to beat you know that top the the top team in the CFL yeah and what it takes to to slow down Davis Alexander if if they don't have Cody vardo he's done an impressive job of stepping in usually teams get better against a quarterback that when you've got more and more film look what happened to Cameron D in Toronto how teams have been effectively shutting him down a little bit so uh I I think teams are probably starting to do that obviously starting to do that with Davis Alexander but so far so good for him uh they have a great team around them they have a pretty good offensive line they have very good receivers and that defense of Montreal's Noel Thorp defensive coordinator he one of those crazy Geniuses we talk about on the defensive side of the ball I think he might be the last we were thinking about this I think you and I were talking about it might be the last of the uh Don Matthews coaching trees still active in the can football league right so uh because Noel Thorp worked for him and all these guys who like Chris Jones and all these guys who used to work for Don Matthews are no longer in the league so so uh Noel Thorp still there a veteran still knows what he's doing and when you watch that Montreal offense it's got some signs from uh uh from some other defensive Geniuses that Noel Thorp has learned from all right well it should be a good game Friday night at mosaic Stadium as the Riders host the aletes that'll do it for episode 145 of the rider Rumblings podcast Daryl thanks as always for joining morning all right see you practice