Neo-Nazi group helped fuel rumor against Haitian immigrants

TELLS NBC NEWS, EITHER WAY IT IS A WIN FOR GROUPS SPREADING HATE. I WANT TO BRING IN GARRETT HAAKE WHO IS WITH THE FORMER PRESIDENT IN CALIFORNIA. PETER BAKER IS "NEW YORK TIMES" WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT AND BRANDY IS A SENIOR REPORT FRESH NBC NEWS WHO COVERS MIRS INFORMATION AND EXTREMISM. IT IS GOOD TO HAVE ALL OF YOU HERE. SO GARRETT, HE SAID HE KNOWS WON IN 2016 BECAUSE OF THE BORDER AND IF NOT THE TOP ISSUE THIS YEAR. TREATICLY, IS HE HAPPY TO DOMINATE A NEWS CYCLE BECAUSE BELIEVES THOSE OUN FOUNDED CLAIMS? IS THIS A STRATEGY, A THOUGHTFUL STRATEGY? >> CHRIS, I THINK IF YOU SQUINT HARD ENOUGH AT THIS TO BORROW A PHRASE FROM THE DEBATE, YOU COULD SEE THE CONCEPT OF A PLAN FOR A STRATEGY HERE FOR DONALD TRUMP. YOU TOUCHED ON IT. HE BELIEVES IMMIGRATION AND RELATEDLY CRIME ARE TWO THE ISSUES THAT WILL DRIVE THIS RACE. WHAT HE SAW HERE AND IN HIS RIGHT-WING FEVER SWAMP ON THE INTERNET WHERE THIS STORY BECAME PROMOTED SPOKE TO WHAT HIS BASE'S FEARS ARE ABOUT MIGRANT CRIME IN THIS COUNTRY. NOW OF COURSE IT HAS NOT TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE. BUT DONALD TRUMP WAS EAGER TO EMBRACE IT DURING THE DEBATE ON TUESDAY. I'M TOLD THAT HIS STAFF WAS NOT SURPRISED THAT THIS WAS SOMETHING THAT HE TALKED ABOUT. AND I THINK NOW IT IS BECOME AN ISSUE WHERE HE AND HIS CAMPAIGN ARE GOING TO HAVE TO DECIDE, PERHAPS AS SOON AS A FEW MINUTES FROM NOW, WHEN THIS WHAT IS DESCRIBED AS A PRESS CONFERENCE, WE'LL SEE AGAIN IF HE TAKES QUESTIONS, GETS UNDERWAY BEHIND ME. IF THIS IS AN ISSUE HE WANTS TO CONTINUE TO FOCUS ON OR IF HE'S READY TO TRY TO CHANGE THE SUBJECT. IF HIS STRATEGY HERE WAS TO GET PEOPLE FOCUSED ON HAITIAN IMMIGRATION OR ILLEGAL IMMIGRATION WHICH IS NOT THE CASE IN SPRINGFIELD, OHIO, OR ANY OF THE OTHER ANCILLARY ISSUES, THAT HAS NOT BEEN THE OUTCOME HERE. WE'RE FACT CHECKING THE CLAIMS AND TALKING ABOUT THE COMMUNITY AND DAMAGE THAT IT HAS DONE IN THAT COMMUNITY. I THINK WE'LL FIND OUT IN REAL TIME VERY SHORTLY WHETHER DONALD TRUMP THINKS THIS IS A STRATEGY STILL THAT HE WANTS TO PURSUE, CHRIS. >> SO PETER, HE'S NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT IT. HE'S POSTING ABOUT IT. IMAGES OF CATS THAT SAY DON'T LET THEM EAT US. VOTE FOR TRUMP. YOUR PAPER, "THE NEW YORK TIMES" WROTE THIS. QUOTE, THEY'RE OVER THE COP IMAGERY GIVES THEM A FIELD OF AN INSIDE JOKE A JUST KIDDING IMPLIES, CIRCULATING DEBUNK MATERIAL TO GET IN ON IT. THE REALITY IS BESIDE THE POINT. I MEAN, IS IT TONGUE AND CHEEK? BECAUSE OBVIOUSLY PETER, IF YOU ASK PEOPLE IN SPRINGFIELD WHERE THEY'VE HAD BOMB THREATS AT CITY HALL YESTERDAY AND WHITE SUPPORTS HAVE RALLIED, SO WHAT IS GOING ON. >> REALITY HAS NEVER BEEN THE BASIS OF A DONALD TRUMP CAMPAIGN. REALITY IS WHAT HE SAID IT IS. IF YOU DON'T THINK THAT CATS AND DOGS HAVE BEEN EATEN, THAT IS YOUR PROBLEM AS FAR AS HE'S CONCERNED. HE'S SPINNING A NARRATIVE, A COUNTRY UNDER INVASION FROM PEOPLE OUTSIDE OF THE COUNTRY, FROM THE SOUTHERN BORDER WHO ARE MOVING INTO YOUR NEIGHBORHOODS AN TAKING YOUR JOBS, THEY'RE TAKING YOUR RESOURCES AND YOUR PETS NOW. AND IF THERE ARE FACT CHECKER BHOZ ARE GOING TO NITPICK ABOUT THE SPECIFICS, IT DOESN'T MATTER. IT ALL FITS IN THERE. WHAT IS STRIKING ABOUT THIS, I MEAN, I'VE BEEN WATCHING A BUNCH OF TRUMP RALLIES FOR A STORY AND I'M STRUCK BY HOW MUCH IMMIGRATION IS THE DOMINANT TOPIC OF EVERY SINGLE ONE, NO MATTER WHAT IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT. HE MAY TALK ABOUT INFLATION OR TALK ABOUT FOREIGN POLICY, OR WHATEVER, BUT IT KEEPS COMING BACK AGAIN AND AGAIN AND AGAIN THROUGHOUT THE RALLIES TO IMMIGRATION. IT IS LIKE A ONE ISSUE CAMPAIGN. HE THINKS THAT IS A SALIENT, IT GALVANIZES HIS BASE AND GENERATES ANGER AND MOTIVATES PEOPLE TO VOTE. SO HE THINKS IT IS A WINNER AND HE'S GOING TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT IT. BUT IT IS -- IT IS A GAMBLE OBVIOUSLY BECAUSE A LOT OF AMERICANS VALUE IMMIGRATION AND DON'T SEE IT THE SAME WAY THAT HE DOES. >> I'M GOING TO ADMIT I DIDN'T WATCH THE WHOLE RALLY BUT I THINK IT WENT ABOUT 70 MINUTES AND SEVERAL REPORTS WERE THAT A VAST MAJORITY WAS ABOUT IMMIGRATION SO THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT. BRANDY, LET'S DEAL WITH REALITY. LET' TALK FACTS. WHAT COULD YOU TELL US ABOUT THIS NEO-NAZI GROUP THAT SEEMS TO BE PROUD OF THIS FACT THAT THEY HAVE A MAJOR HAND IN MOVING THIS DEBUNKED CLAIM, RACIST CLAIM FORWARD. >> YEAH, THERE SPRINGFIELD, OHIO -- THERE IS A GROUP THAT IS A NEO-NAZI GROUP AND THEY'RE OPERATED BY TWO FORMER MARINES AND THEY GO TO COMMUNITIES WHERE THERE IS SOME SORT OF DISCORD, WHERE LAST YEAR IT WAS DRAG STORY HOUR, WOULD YOU SEE WHITE NATIONALISTS MARCHING WITH SWASTIKAS. AND THAT YEAR WE'VE SEEN THEM IN HARRISBURG, PENNSYLVANIA, IN SPRINGFIELD, OHIO. THEY WERE TRYING TO GET INTO THE ANTI-IMMIGRATION, THE TOPIC IS SO HOT RIGHT NOW, SO WHITE NATIONALISTS KNOW THAT TOO AND THEY'VE BEEN APPEARING AT SPRINGFIELD RALLIES AND SPRINGFIELD CITY COUNCIL MEETINGS AN MAKING THREATENING SPEECHES AND ONLINE MAKING MEMES AND PUSHING THESE ANGRY RACIST RHETORIC. BUT USUALLY THAT IS WHERE IT STOPS. FOR THIS TIME, FOR SOME REASON, J.D. VANCE AND DONALD TRUMP HAVE PROMOTED THE CLAIMS AND REFUSED TO BACK DOWN. SO FOR THESE WHITE NATIONALISTS, THESE MISSION ACCOMPLISHES. >> I RECOMMEND PEOPLE READ YOUR COLUMN. IT IS SO GREAT. BUT ONE OF THE PEOPLE SAID, CORRECT ME IF THIS IS NOT THE EXACT QUOTE, THIS IS WHAT POWER LOOKS LIKE. THIS IS MOTIVATING FOR THEM. THAT THEY BELIEVE THAT SOMETHING THEY PUT OUT THERE HAS MADE ITS WAY TO THE FORMER PRESIDENT AND REPUBLICAN NOMINEE. AND HE'S SAYING IT EVERY SINGLE DAY. >> YEAH, IF YOU REMEMBER THAT MOMENT DURING THE LAST DEBATE, THE FORMER DEBATE WHERE DONALD TRUMP MENTIONED THE PROUD BOYS AND SAID STAND BACK AND STAND BY. IT IS A VERY SIMILAR THING. WHERE THE TINY GROUPS THAT OPERATE ON THE INTERNET AND GO AND TERRORIZE SMUL COMMUNITIES. ON THE INTERNET, THAT IS WHERE IT IS EXPECTED TO STAY. THEY DON'T EXPECT THAT THE WOULD-BE PRESIDENT WOULD AMPLIFY THESE CLAIMS. SO FOR THEM, AGAIN, THIS IS REALLY LIKE CHRISTMAS. THEY SEEK TO RECRUIT, TO INTIMIDATE, TO STRIKE FEAR IN THE HEARTS OF PEOPLE IN THESE COMMUNITIES AND TO MOVE THE GOP FURTHER, FURTHER TOWARDS EXTREMISM. THAT IS THEIR STATED GOAL. AND WITH THIS, A RESEARCHER TOLD ME THEY'VE ABSOLUTELY -- >> THE POVERTY LAW CENTER. >> THEY'VE SUCCEEDED. >> SO PETER TO YOUR POINT, THE PRESIDENT HAS SAID WILD THINGS AND TRAFFICKED IN CONSPIRACY THEORIES SINCE HE BEGAN RUNNING FOR OFFICE. HE'S GONE AFTER MIGRANTS, THAT IS FOR SURE. COUNTLESS TIMES IN THE PAST. I GUESS THE KEY QUESTION FOR 2024 NOR NOVEMBER IS WHETHER PEOPLE'S APPETITE, AND I'M TALKING ABOUT THE UNDECIDED, THESE MIDDLE VOTERS WHO WILL DECIDE THIS ELECTION, IF THEIR APPETITE IS MARKEDLY DIFFERENT THAN IT WAS IN 2016, IF THIS ENDS UP HURTING AND NOT HELPING HIM. >> YEAH, I MEAN, LOOK, IT WORKS FOR HIS BASE OBVIOUSLY. THIS IS A BASE ELECTION AS IT OFTEN IS WITH DONALD TRUMP AND HE IS SPEAKING TO PEOPLE WHO AGREE WITH HIM AND AGREE THE BORDER HAS BEEN A DISASTER FOR A LONG TIME, THE BIDEN ADMINISTRATION THERE WERE VERY HIGH RATES OF PEOPLE COMING OVER THE BORDER AND THAT DID CREATE A HARDSHIP ON A LOT EVER COMMUNITIES. THAT IS FOR REAL. THEY'RE NOT EATING CATS AND DOGS. BUT THE NUMBERS HAVE FALLEN SO IT IS BACK TO THE LOWS THAT THEY WERE WHEN BIDEN TOOK OFFICE, WHEN TRUMP GAVE UP OFFICE. AND I THINK THAT THE PEOPLE HE NEEDS TO WIN, HE NEEDS TO WIN OVER IN ORDER TO GET PAST THE 45% OR SO THAT HE'S GOT IN ORDER TO GET A WIN, AREN'T MOTIVATED BY THAT IN THE SAME WAY. SO THAT IS THE REAL TRICK. IS IT ABOUT GETTING TURNOUT AMONG PEOPLE WHO ARE ALREADY PERSUADED BY HIM OR REACHING OUT TO PEOPLE WHO HAVEN'T BEEN PERSUADED BY HIM SO FAR. >> SO I WANT TO BRING IN CARLOS CARILLO AND I WANT TO PLAY WHAT THE FORMER PRESIDENT SAID JUST THE OTHER DAY. >> AS THE PEOPLE OF ARIZONA UNDERSTAND BETTER THAN ANYONE ELSE, UNDER KAMALA HARRIS OUR COUNTRY IS UNDER A THING CALLED INVASION. DID YOU EVER HEAR THE WORD INVASION. LIKE A MILITARY. IT IS LIKE A MILITARY INVASION. WE'RE BEING CONQUERED AND WE'RE BEING OCCUPIED BY A FOREIGN ELEMENT. >> WHEN YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A RACE SO CLOSE, WHERE IN SWING STATES LIKE IN ARIZONA AND NEVADA, IT COULD BE DECIDED BY MIGRANTS. DOES IT RHETORIC HAS THE POTENTIAL TO HURT HIM WITH VOTERS EVEN IF IT HELPS HIM WITH HIS BASE. WHAT IS YOUR TAKE ON IT? >> CHRIS, I THINK PETER MADE THIS POINT AND IT IS IMPORTANT TO HIGHLIGHT IT. IMMIGRATION IS AN ISSUE WHERE REPUBLICANS CAN AND SHOULD BE ON OFFENSE. IT IS ONE OF THE GREAT WEAKNESSES OF THE BIDEN-HARRIS ADMINISTRATION. WE COULD TAKE A LOOK AT ANY POLL TO CONFIRM THAT. THE PROBLEM WITH DONALD TRUMP IS THAT HE DOESN'T JUST GO ON OFFENSE, SOMETIMES HE BECOMES OFFENSIVE IN DISCUSSING IMMIGRATION IN PARTICULAR. AND THE VERY FEW UNDECIDED SWING VOTERS THAT ARE OUT THERE, REJECT THAT KIND OF RHETORIC. THEY DO NOT WANT TO HEAR PEOPLE BEING DENIGRATED. THEY DON'T WANT TO HEAR PEOPLE BEING DEHUMANIZED. THEY WANT TO KNOW WHAT THE SOLUTIONS ARE FOR A BETTER IMMIGRATION SYSTEM. SO DONALD TRUMP ONCE AGAIN IS