How in the World Did Scott Frost Not Work at Nebraska?

[Music] you're listening to the common fan podcast a Husker football podcast for the common fan by the common [Music] fan welcome back to the common fan podcast I am TJ burkel with Maddie Owens senior and G off in Lincoln this is episode five of the Reckoning series special guest Brandon vogle is joining us for all of the Reckoning episodes and our featured guest today is Evan Bland Evan Brandon welcome gentlemen how's it going guys doing great very well doing well make sure to check out episodes one through four if you haven't already common fans we've taken an in-depth look at whether Nebraska should have fired Frank solich examin the question of whether Bill Callahan might have worked with more time explored the still divisive Pini era and discussed the entirely ill-conceived Mike Riley hire you can access all the episodes on our new website www.com fan. check out the website sign up for our newsletter subscribe on YouTube and see all the ways you can access podcast episodes the question we're exploring today is how in the world did Scott Frost not work at Nebraska before we get into the meat of this episode make sure to get your own meat common fans from certified Pete Monte beef stop by your local Marcato butcher shop at 30th in Yankee Hill or 84th in havlock in Lincoln and at 162nd in Maple in Omaha the Marcato butcher shops have hot Fresh Food daily and they've got all your favorite cuts of steak ground beef kebabs ribs beef jerky beef bacon beef everything you can also go to cpb.com to get certified pedmont products shipped right to your front door anywhere across all 50 states make it happen common fans it's grilling season and soon it will be tailgate season certified ped montis powering the Husker football team and powering the common fan podcast all right let's dive in we always start these episodes Evan with kind of looking at the outlook for Nebraska football whenever a new coach uh was hired so we all know the story uh as the 2017 Nebraska football season was uh crumbling before our very eyes uh there was hope in husker Nation the stars were aligning as Scott Frost Central Florida team made a magical run to an undefeated season a conference Championship and of course uh New Year's Day Bowl victory over Auburn late that season Bross UCF team was playing Temple on Saturday November 18th the day before the temple game athletic director Bill moose and his wife and Matt Davidson meet with frost and gared Lamere uh who was kind of frost longtime right-hand man chief of staff at both Central Florida and Nebraska uh in a hotel near the Philadelphia Airport moose had had some back Channel communication with frost up to that point mostly through Davidson but that was the first time they met it person and first time they had any sort of extended conversation less than two weeks later Frost would accept the Nebraska Job Frost was the slam dunk hire who would bring Nebraska back to its rightful place at top of the college football Universe he was the hottest coach in the Country Florida wanted him Tennessee wanted him everybody wanted him he came home he was the guy who would bring balance to the force like literally any athletic director would have hired Scott Frost at that point Evan what are your Recollections of that period around when Frost was hired like what stood out to you um what do you recall when you think back on that period Well I just remember uh you could kind of feel change in real time I mean everyone knew at that point that the Mike Riley era was was not gonna happen I mean Iowa trounced Nebraska on the last game of the season and um you know you just knew you knew it was over you you'd known it was over most of the way and there had been talk about Scott Frost for months and at this point uh like you mentioned uh it had come out that Nebraska had been talking with Scott Frost it looked like they were on the verge of an agreement and the emotion the imagination I think kind of runs wild at that point you look at what he's doing at UCF on his way to a 13-0 season that was a fun team to watch they scored points they went up and down the field and you just thought man what would that look like in the Big 10 what would that look like at Nebraska he was the guy who people dreamed of merging Husker power as a former quarterback at Nebraska with Oregon speed modernizing the Nebraska offense taking the Best of Both Worlds and bringing it to Lincoln and you're right like it was a a consensus no-brainer of a hire there were there were no denters really about that at that time and you know more than anything I think people felt the emotion that Scott was feeling leaving that UCF team and he he made that pretty clear in different interviews down the stretch was he was trying to enjoy those final moments with those guys while feeling the pull of coming home later we learned that Tom osbor calls him and and encourages him and kind of serves as a sounding board to that end as well um so just a lot going on sort of in front of in front of the nation like right right out there for people to see so there was a ton of optimism that that was going to be the higher and obviously when it and when it ended up happening uh it was just the start of an offseason of hype Evan do you remember or did anything stand out to you about the opening press conference oh yeah of course I mean first of all there was the the the now Infamous uh you know we're not going to have to adjust to the Big 10 the Big 10 will adjust to us line which hung over his head and I thought served as as a kind of a final judgment uh by the end of his tenure but the other thing in hindsight and in the moment it was surprising and in hindsight I think it it was a red flag too is uh and I found this quote so I'll I'll read it to you but he had a he had a eight or nine minute side session with media after his actual introductory press conference and this is one of the first things he said he said I know what I'm getting myself into I'm going to lose it on every one of you talking to the media if you approach my family it's already happening I'm telling you right now my parents my wife my child are off limits I won't answer another question if that happens and that that's that's the tone that he said at his introductory press conference which uh you know thanks it it kind of I thought in hindsight especially and even at the time it was like okay this is somebody who has some baggage at Nebraska somebody who has been here somebody who who has seen the highs of a national championship and has felt the lows of being benched and and the Lawrence Phillips Scandal and and all the other things that went into it so uh I thought that th those two things to me really defined that opening presser the optimism perhaps the borderline arrogance that he was going to change the Big 10 with what he did and what Nebraska did and what his schemes were and then just again the reminder that uh yeah he he's been here he has a sense of maybe what the spotlight can feel like when things aren't going so well and to set that tone on on your what's supposed to be a day of Celebration a honeymoon period um wow what a sign in hindsight that ended up being I remember that and I remember I thought in my head he said that on like the press conference the main press conference that was like televised or whatever but maybe it was just reading about it after the fact but right either way like that's such an when you to your point in retrospect that's such an odd like that would make news in almost every other like new high like that would almost always make news except that there was so much and it did I mean you guys reported on it but I think there was fans were like whatever like there's just so much euphoria that we got our guy and we were about to turn things around that it was just sort of like we brushed past it but yeah I think you know it kind of in some ways um that sort of attitude shown through throughout his tenure Brandon do you remember anything about sort of that whole that whole piece of it um yeah I mean the two that the two quotes that Evan mentioned um and thanks Evan for grabbing that second one because that's the one that really Stu stood out to me now I wasn't at that press conference I watched it live and I was coordinating with our staff who was there afterwards and the big topic was that that second quote that Evan mentioned and I I remember kind of taking a deep breath at that moment then because first of all fair enough it's fair enough for a coach to set those boundaries I think um but it just let you know that you know this was like a corination it was Nebraska fans and I think the Nebraska programs dream candidate right like after a gradual kind of erosion of Nebraska standing nationally here they were they were going to get the the the number one candidate in in the coaching cycle that year and of course it was because of the connection to Nebraska but but that quote where where he said that and with the tone specifically kind of made me realize like well maybe this is this is frost dream job but it doesn't feel like it right now that's that's understandable you know when you look at his time from before the Lawrence Phillips stuff before the getting bench stuff like deciding to go to Stanford like I remember going back and reading stuff from what he train for back to Nebraska uh like letters to the editor in Lincoln Journal Star of people being like they were not Scott Frost fans because he was the the Homegrown guy who who left to go learn how to play in the West Coast offense um so it was understandable that you know his time in Nebraska was was not just uh sunshin and rainbows the whole time um ended up resulting in in Nebraska's last National Title but that was the moment and it was his first day on the job where I was like oh okay this is uh this was a complicated situation I think for him specifically don't you guys don't you guys feel like in that moment or the leading up to Scott Frost getting hired that was kind of in the back of most Husker fans mind but we just kind of pushed it even further back there to not think about how it wasn't all rainbows and roses for Scott Frost and his whole story before he came to Nebraska then when he came back from Stanford and the Lawrence Phillips thing and and all those things at least for me I kind of felt like I'm willing to forget about that because this guy's a hot college football coach right now and he's one of ours and he's coming home I don't know I don't know maybe it's just me but it felt like we we kind of glossed over all like like Evan said the baggage that he kind of kind of had but that that's really astute observation Evan and especially in hindsight well I think as a fan though too Matt I remember like it sort of I'm not sure if I actively thought this but it was sort of like all's well that ends well right so right he let he let he won a national championship and now he's coming back as the hottest coach in the country and we will undoubtedly win 10 national championships in the next like 12 years or something like that so it's all going to be fine so like whatever else there was like we're going to forget about this and we're going to forget about this comment it doesn't matter because we're going to be so good and he's going to be the greatest coach in in Nebraska history and all that so it was kind of that feeling of I remember for me it wasn't like we're willing to forget about that it was just all like well that's all in the past and you know he left on a high and he's coming back on a high he's he's mature he's he's aged we're all we're all a little older and wiser I mean also like I mean the fans weren't the fans weren't the fans were also culpable and some of that stuff too oh absolutely in the back in the day absolutely I think you both of you guys would agree with me too and I'm sure maybe Evan and Brandon would too I mean at that moment it's looking back on it now seeing how everything played out it it does seem arrogant some of the things that we he were saying but I W lie to you at that exact moment some some of those quotes he was making about Big 10 adjusting to us I ate that up like I I was a drinking the KOA immediately which kind of leads to my question and when he came here I think we also need remember of who we had before and his demeanor and how he handled things and Scott Frost coming in being the Golden Boy that he is his just his bravado and what he brought to the table immediately I'm like God he's so much more different than Riley it's just refreshing this guy's gonna write the ship immediately for Husker football and I can't wait to watch it unfold so I had people in the office that were like we're we're we're winning 11 games this year minimum type of thing like right off the bat the usual Husker KOA drinkers I'm curious for both Evan and Brandon what were your more real realistic grounded expectations was this going to turn around immediately did you think was this going to take time or were you not Believers and I want to hear both of your both of your opinions on that well I thought one thing that really put wind in the in the sales of the momentum was when they signed Adrien Martinez and they got his commitment and that was one of the the early tent pole recruiting moments for that staff if you recall they were doing preparation for the peach bow against Auburn at that time and they were flying across country and making a visit to Adrian Martinez out there in California and they get the the four-star commitment who had had looks from other top colleges and and suddenly Nebraska had its guy right off the Jump and and even then uh he he wasn't you know Crown the starter right away but I think people could see where it was going the kind of style of offense they were going to have and the other part of the profile of a Scot cross team was the defensive side was more about taking risks was about getting takeaways tfls to get the ball back to the offense and so the big question was okay what's this corv ofan offense going to look like at Nebraska and so when they got Adrian Martinez I do think there was a lot of of of excitement addition in addition to what we saw from Scott Frost just in the press conference that okay now they have uh the guy the trigger man to move forward with this thing so it it did I think looked pretty optimistic early on the schedule lined up favorably of course they were supposed to start with akan and they had Troy at home and Colorado and so like it looked like there was this sort of Runway where the team could take off and so yeah I mean I thought um you know a blll game seemed reasonable I don't know if I was saying 11 wins or or even eight but like I do I did think you know six was on the table because they got that guy and that was the big question you could sort of plug and play on the other side figure things out with some of your skill guys but you needed a quarterback and so I thought the fact that they added Adrien Martinez really added some legitimacy to the optimism that they felt in December yeah yeah I mean I I wasn't raising any red flags at that point um personally you know and I think one of the things for me was um I I was one of the Nebraska media members there were quite a few of us who were down there for the peach bow when when UCF beat Auburn um and that was a that was an interesting opportunity to get a talk to a lot of the coaches and and not just coaches but the UCF players and a lot of the things that I was hearing you know about kind of how they built this and how they they did this in two years and some of the like I know some people don't like talk about this stuff but like the culture pieces of it I was like okay yeah this this kind of sounds like stuff that you know has worked has worked elsewhere so I think that even like fueled a little bit of maybe what I thought Nebraska's ceiling was not necessarily right away um because I think I was probably in that you know yeah you get get bull eligible this first year and uh which seemed doable with that that schedule and with the talent they had back and to Evans Point getting getting QB right away that's always key for for any new coaching staff um I kind of thought they were uh they had a chance to be better right away in in 2018 and that was kind of the Baseline next expectation for me I think for sure well I mean guys it's it's easy to kind of think about this and say this in in retrospect but you know at the time when we hired Scott Frost just about any it felt like any athletic director would have hired him um but you consider how things turn out should do you think there should have been I don't know more formal search um I mean should have there there at least have been an interview where moose said okay you know tell me how you're going to do this at Nebraska tell me how you're going to deal with the big 10 Etc um should it have been maybe maybe more something more than like the coronation that took place well for for what it's worth and I don't have all the the names in front of me but I know that particular coaching cycle was not a good one most of those that were hired that were hot names it just it didn't happen it didn't stick um so I don't know and maybe some of those conversations were had but like I think you think about Scott Frost's background I mean he played for Tom osbor uh he he learned under you know the West Coast offense under Walsh out and Stanford uh he he worked with Raheem Morris Mike Tomlinson uh or Mike Tomlin I should say uh and and and and Bill bich too I mean belich was someone who absolutely endorsed that higher that Nebraska made at that time so there was this sense that like this is the expert this is the guy who's learned under all the greats who's coming in um and so I don't know that bill moose would have said that he was the expert he was the ad his his job when he came to Nebraska a few months earlier was to make The Hires to be the guy to to promote that change so I don't think Bill moose maybe had the answers or knew what he was looking for he was looking for the guy who would have the answers and I think the resume backed up at that time pretty strongly that Scott Frost could be that guy I agree yeah I I I would agree I mean I think Bill moose was brought on to do one thing specifically and that was Lance Scott Frost and that's what he was good that's what he was great at um you know he was kind of a head hunter guy make a splashy higher the first time I ever talked to Bill moose one-on-one he told me he liked fizzle which you know this was quote I think he ended up using with with with a lot of people um but that that kind of told you right there like and Ross needed to be convinced uh he needed to believe that Nebraska was a place he could win at um I I think that was a big piece of it and you know moose went on and made the hyberg higher um it's not the only thing he did at Nebraska but it to answer your question should Nebraska have engaged in more of a full-fledged search yeah I think so if this were the NFL you'd have to you'd have to interview additional candidates and I don't I don't think that's ever a a bad idea but it's just like if if Frost had said no or if moose had just not stealed the like if Rost had gone elsewhere like how would that have gone over um you know what would have happened if if all of a sudden you know it was like okay well it looks like frost is going to to Florida so here's Mike Norvell welcome to Lincoln which Mike norell things are going pretty pretty good for him now but he didn't start out that way at Florida State I can I can tell you what would what would have happened there Brandon Florida would have gone on to win multiple national championships because that's what happens to us that's such a good it's such a good point Jeff but like yeah we have to acknowledge as the common fans if like if Nebraska had even it's so easy to say now if Nebraska if it had gotten out that Nebraska even had if that bill moose passed another coach in the street and said hi like Husker fans would have absolutely lost their minds like what do you mean why why are we not focusing all of our energy on Scott Frost I think that's why it's so we find it so bizarre is like that was the slam dunk like that was who we had who we had to get right you know so right okay looking back at the frost tenure uh they started off 0 and six in his first year in 2018 uh after just a series of crazy and unpredictable and unfortunate games um ended the season four and eight that year um after a lot of offseason hype and expectation that they would turn the corner they go five- seven in 2019 um 2020 was a covid season and they finished three and five in that season uh 2021 as everyone remembers we had the greatest three and N team in history um and then of course in 2022 the team starts off one and two that included the infamous onsite kick in the lost to Northwestern in Ireland and of course the 4542 loss to Georgia Southern at home when the defense could not stop Georgia Southern the offense actually looked pretty good that night um Frost is fired after the Georgia Southern game he does not have a winning record in even one season at Nebraska they do not go to a bowl game they don't even go six and six um it's still shocking to me to say those words and I think just in looking back and preparing for this episode you know there's there's just so many wha ifs from the frost era right like what if the akan game never gets canceled do they do they roll to Victory and then not lose to Colorado and then not Andor not lose to Troy and maybe at least start off you know 3-0 two- one that first year and maybe that kind of propels them to a bowl game and does that change the tra the trajectory of the entire tenure for frost right and then there's so many individual games where if you know we say what if just one thing happened differently right what if JD Spielman doesn't lose the ball in the sun against Ohio State in 2018 what if they can make one more St stop and avoid overtime against Colorado in 2019 what if Rost didn't have to deal with the co season I mean your pivotal third season um for I mean that's you know that that everybody had to deal with that as as U my High School baseball coach always said it's not 75 and Sunny and the other Dugout like everybody had to deal with it right um but still that was a pretty pivotal season for him to have to deal with a once in a lifetime pandemic situation um I mean there's the entire 2021 season punt return against Michigan State the fumble against Michigan the double digit lead going into the fourth quarter against Iowa it is painful for me to say these words Evan uh Brandon what are your biggest wha ifs from the frost era PJ you covered a good number of them right there I mean the one that always comes to mind for me is the first one though is is the akan game and you know just how electric the stadium was that night uh first the vibe and then literally with the thunderstorms rolling through but you know the kickoff I mean people were were amped through the roof for that thing and then it gets wiped out it doesn't happen and so like in a parallel universe where there were clear skies that night say Nebraska beats what was a pretty subpar akan team they're all they're ready they're warmed up they're they're ready to go against Colorado maybe Adrien Martinez doesn't have his knee Twisted in that game uh and so he can play in the Troy game so say they're worst two- one three and0 at that point they're probably on their way to a bowl game in that first season that takes a lot of the pressure off uh in subsequent Seasons that would create recruiting momentum that some of the vision that Scott Frost had laid out was already coming to fruition and it didn't happen they were 0 and six they you know they had to scramble to get to the four wins and yeah there was some momentum because of the way they finished season against Iowa and of course they were preseason top 25 and 19 but it just kind of felt Hollow because he hadn't they hadn't shown anything not really so I think that's one for me and then I would say that 21 season as well I mean the 2020 season was so bizarre it kind of felt like a throwaway a lot of other programs that were traditionally good struggled that year and I think by 2022 things were too far off the rails I mean Trev Alberts told us after the 21 season that there was no empirical evidence to suggest that this would be a success by extending Frost another year but he was a Husker and they were going to be loyal to him so to me that 21 season was the other pivot point in that tenure and you laid out a lot of the games the one to me that always comes to mind is Michigan State H where the defense I don't believe they allowed a first down in the second half and it came down to a punt going to the wrong part of the field and it was returned and they lose and and just the dejection I mean I was I I traveled all the the games home and away that and the two games to me that I've never seen players more pissed off was the Michigan State game that year and the Colorado game in 2019 when I almost got nailed by a water bottle from Ben Sly who was just chucking it off after after they lost so you know like it added up and I think that was kind of the bottom line too it wasn't there were all these individual games but like the cumulative effect that that had on the psyche of the certainly the fans but the players the staff uh by The End by 2022 it was too far gone so those are some of the that stand out to me were man if you could have nipped that thing a little bit earlier maybe they could have built something out of it yeah it's it's kind of a tough it's a tough one to assess like looking back at it now you know especially that 2021 season like I was like oh how how did they how do how did they they reup for another year of this um you know so uh appreciate having mentioning the no empirical evidence I forgot about that momentarily uh I think the question is is like at what point during the frost tenure did this team and program I guess at that point uh take on kind of the hard luck Persona that I think it's still trying to shake I mean I we've heard Matt Ru talk about it after the 20123 season of you get into these close games and there just seems to be a sense of like oh something's like it's gonna it's going to go wrong like it's going to go bad um and you know and frost brought that up continually I'm like we just got to get one of these and and see what happens it's like how long does that I mean because you can kind of throw out year one I think you can explain almost anything away in a year one scenario so does that pop up at some point in 2019 because just wait 2021 is going to be an entire season of of that so it's it's it's weird thinking like what could have been the inciting incident that maybe got this thing rolling a little bit I I think back the one that hops mind I think back that 2018 Ohio State game you know Nebraska at that point I don't remember what the record was I think maybe two and six two and seven something like that um goes into Columbus and and gives Ohio State like everything it wants um didn't come away with the win you mentioned the Spielman uh losing the ball in the Sun and and after the game um Urban Meyer I I now think this was a bit of gamesmanship I don't know that I did at the time um I'm not going to give my CR self credit for it anyway if I did like is you effusive about Nebraska like oh this team this team's going to be really good like I was really worried about this game this is going to be this going to be difficult which is you know sure nice and especially if you're you are a Husker fan going through this this unexpectedly subpar season in year one um after the return of the Holland Sun uh but I don't think I don't think that made things any easier but it gave you something to hang your hat on a little bit at the end of that first season and so so what if that one flips um it would have made at least I think all of the 2019 offseason Buzz feel a little bit more legitimate for for to to agree but but I think a lot of that was just based on Frost's history at UCF plus having Adrien Martinez y 100 per. um I did think it was funny when you brought up Trevor Kendall Alberts his quote about uh empirical evidence and saying he was loyal to Husker seems now right pH loyalty ask coming out of that man EXC that's neither here nor there he we exor I got off got off track there um obviously a big reason Frost was so successful at UCF was just because of his offense like I remember watching those games before he came here and he was on the radar and just really defense wasn't a factor for them I think their game plan was we just need to score more points than the other team and we're going to win that's just all we need to do so just score score score because I remember those games were high-scoring UCF scored a ton of points but their opponent scored a ton of points too and so he had a game plan it was just you needed to have an explosive offense to win and we wanted to see that here at Nebraska obviously and we I think every once in a while you'd see a glimpse of it of what could be it never really panned out for either of you is there a specific reason you think that it didn't work out here was that the conference just was tougher obviously or was there a specific reason you think that that that type of offense just didn't pan out in the Big 10 with us yeah I mean it wasn't a great fit for sure it what it what generated excitement for a year then uh kind of went stale I think as the other coaches in the Big 10 caught up I mean I think that the end of that 2018 season Nebraska was moving the ball Brandon mentioned the Ohio State game Nebraska was doing things differently than other teams in the league uh you know Kurt fence said that after the Iowa game that year like the way that Nebraska played was different and made Iowa uncomfortable they made some questionable decisions toward the end of that game but the Big 10 caught up and in an ironic Twist from what we talked about with the Scott Frost presser to start his tenure it adjusted to Nebraska and the result was what Nebraska wanted to do was to go fast fast fast and score and wear down defenses and what actually ended up happening was they were playing good Big 10 defenses that sometimes were holding Nebraska to 32 possessions and so it would go quickly and then they would Punt and then the other offense would grind out an eight-minute drive and you look up at the end of the game and the defense is seeing like a hundred snaps sometimes more than a 100 snaps and it's just it's not a recipe for success and and that's an offense and that's a style that's either built to to play in a shootout like they did in the AAC or to to implement when you have the lead and the other team can't afford to play slow but it's too often Nebraska would fall behind even by a touchdown and they would you know boom their possession was over the other team uh would grind it out and that's just you know that's just how it went Nebraska even in situations there were multiple times I recall thinking like the the the smart thing to do in this game situation is to slow things down kill a little bit of clock and even then they were so amped up to keep moving like they'd snaap the ball with 14 16 seconds left on the play clock in situations where you're trying to milk it and they just it was so ingrained in their identity that they couldn't adjust to it so I think just sort of that style and then kind of what I mentioned earlier about the defensive side where they embraced this idea of yeah we're GNA give up points but we want to get the ball back uh I think those two things in in combination um are they're just not a recipe for consistency sometimes that comes together and a lot of times man if one thing's not going well uh it just it just doesn't come together yeah yeah that's that's really well put I mean I think think there just wasn't a lot of reverence from frost coming into the big pen which you know we talked about earlier it kind of felt good you know if you were a fan base coming out of the Mike Riley era was like yeah let the coach be be a little bit arrogant and and Brash but the league is tough like I mean this thing was structured at UCF to you know the offense was going to average 40 points a game the defense was there um to supplement that with takeaways negative plays and and do it that way um and to your point Jeff uh out outscore teams essentially well the only team that averages 40 points consistently in the Big 10 is Ohio State which is basically the only SEC program in the league and it makes it super interesting you know for a USC coming into the Big 10 this year I think um that's kind of what Nebraska was trying to do um so it was an ill fit to you know to back up whatever was saying I also think like a real missing ingredient for Nebraska was the Run game outside of 2018 never got going and those chip Celly Oregon teams were built um run first you know like they moov the ball a lot of ways UCF was was really built around the run and frost would talk about this you know at various points but after that first season with Divina zigo like I don't think they got the running backs that they necessarily needed uh the old line kind of never came together I mean one one of the defining like plays of of the Scott Frost era for me is like they get into his third and four you know uh or down inside the 10 yard line like an important an important play and the answer was just QB run QB run like they couldn't hand it off and and do it that way um so you know that's a little more nuts and bolts see I think than the big picture stuff I mean I think that the the big takeaway is like what they wanted to employ is really hard to employ in the Big 10 but they didn't get that close because they never they were never able to run the ball I think the way they wanted to no right L to do that too yeah well they I mean they they certainly as we just kind of alluded to they've really struggled during the frost area era to play complimentary football um and you know talking about X's and O's like it was it was bizarre to me because it occasionally you would see um some really really good play design from Scott Frost like clearly he had a good football mind and he could draw up x's and that was really really well but it would be like a chunk play here or a chunk play there it wasn't like a consistent rhythmic offense we've just kind of covered that the offense you know kind of sputtered struggled to get going but you know do you think if if Frost do you think there's changes he could have made earlier in his tenure to address some of those things you know whether it's the offense getting a little more Rhythm or you know I know a couple times he introduced some wrinkles and run a little bit of like traditional triple option and it was like oh here we go that was but it was more to be cute I think than anything um and you know the in the defense as you know as far as it was it really wasn't similar to what he tried to do at UCF with getting a lot of takeaways and tackles for loss and maybe they just couldn't do it but any changes you guys think they could have made earlier to kind of fix some things well I think Brandon's point about the quarterback run fits in here really well because you know when you do that first of all you're saying you don't trust your running back or your traditional running game but the other two things that come out of that when you lean on it as heavily as Nebraska did and they did it as much or more than any other team in the league is one you're more prone to turnovers from your quarterback and we certainly saw that from Adrian Martinez uh with fumbles and and you know interceptions sort of as a result of that I think being hit but then second to that injuries how many times was Adrien Martinez banged up he had the jaw he had uh the knee obviously in his first season and when you have when you're when you're limited as a quarterback or when you're at your second or your third string guys as consistently as Nebraska was man it's hard to execute an offense consistently especially when your number one guy is physically gifted in a way that your other guys aren't you're asking you know the offense to to to do different things um with a number two or a number three as opposed to Adrien and so like how many G you know it happened a lot you know multiple games every year where where Adrien was out in Nebraska had to figure out a way or he was in there but he was limited and so like if there had been more of an emphasis on the traditional Run game if they could have found that running back Heck if they could have executed screens swing passes somewhat consistently where you're taking the burden off of Martinez if he were if he were healthy for the majority of most of those Seasons you know I I do think there would have been more consistency that just wasn't the way they wanted to play it and then by the end you're in desperation mode and you're just doing whatever you can to survive in a given game so you know I think honestly when you look ahead to the to the current Matt ruer I think they're getting away from that which is a positive man you saw a lot of the the consequences of Leaning so heavily on the Run game U that to me that's an area they could have changed and seen some results yeah that's that's a good one and and this is an area where I think the co year does come into play because broadly I'm kind of like yeah everybody had to had to deal with that but with how it fell timeline wise with frost um tenure like you know that was another disappointing year but it was Co right so you just kind of shrug your shoulders and be like well who who knows maybe it's not fair to expect anything and like you know statistically now when I'm like looking back at that year I basically just throw it out for everybody good bad or indifferent it was just like yeah it was bizarre circumstances um so maybe if you don't have that if you have a regular season you know and you don't make a bow game maybe maybe you do have to make earlier because as as Evan noted earlier I think by the time you get to into 2021 which is when you know Nebraska made its most major staff changes under Frost it it it already felt like it was it was too late and in any time you know in any coaching tenure when you're doing that that many years in uh where you're having to fire guys that you probably don't want to fire uh you know it's it's basically a sacrifice right it's like well we're going to serve up the coordinators uh and hopefully that magically fixes this thing for a year and and we can buy ourselves more time it it rarely works so it's a tough one I I also think you know Frost was so like set on not only like how he chose to do things and he's he's super smart in in terms of the football stuff um designing plays Etc uh I think it would have been hard to to get those changes implemented anyway I think this was kind of the way they were going to go and they were they were willing to go down fighting uh the way they wanted let's do it yeah to that to that point about maybe a little stubbornness or hardheadedness or even arrogance one one play or one set of plays that jumps out to me always is the 2019 Colorado game and I want to say it it was definitely the second half I think it was the fourth quarter we score a touchdown to go up I think we're up seven kick the ball off they put together a little bit of a return and then cam Taylor Brit forces a fumble and we recover it on the on Colorado side of the field and I just remember I mean I I can still hear the announcer Nebraska's got the football and I just remember thinking there it is that's the year two play that's the culture Play That's The Difference Maker that we've been looking for like there we go we're going to win this game and off we go and I could be conflating different parts of the game but my recollection is the touchdown drive before that was a 75 yard touchdown drive and it was entirely uh we ran the ball the entire time and at that point we're up about I think we're up seven we just got the ball back on the turnover we're on the right side of the field and I don't know there's six or seven minutes left in the game which ended up feeling like an eternity the way that game ended um first play Martinez in the shotgun and he chucks at like 40 yards for an incompletion and I don't remember like I think you know maybe he was thrown it away whatever it was but I think we quickly went three and out and had to give the ball right back and I just remember thinking like why would passing the ball and you know Scott Frost has forgotten more about football than I'll ever know and X's and O's and play calling and all that stuff but I just remember thinking like what do we do like we just run the ball there at worst case scenario if you're gonna have to give it back take two or three minutes off the clock yeah yeah ex anyway sorry didn't mean to go down that rabbit hole um one one other you know a couple other areas I wanted to explore with you guys uh friend of the program Michael severe gave an interview shortly after Frost was fired and you know severe kind of gave multiple reasons for why he was fired and that had nothing to do with wins and losses he mentioned the head coach being late for practice every day he mentioned Frost not making recruiting calls he said there were assistant coaches going to the athletic director to complain about how things were being run did you guys did either of you guys get a sense as you were covering the team that there were problems behind the scenes that I mean that's act you know bordering on or or crossing the line into dysfunction really did you guys get a sense of of any of that uh some I mean you know first of all Scott Frost is not he he didn't love the media so I had I've had more uh off the Record talks with Matt rule in in a few months than I had with Scott Frost in five years so like he just that part of that's just his personality but yeah I mean I think you got the sense something odd was going on uh in his personal life with his wife like there was a you know he made a point of walking off the field with her one time almost as if in response to certain rumors that were going on uh you know I think you look at some of the recruiting results late in his tenure and and certainly the numbers fell off and the quality of prospect that they got was maybe different than it was uh early on in his career or his time at Nebraska just because it hadn't the vision hadn't started manifesting on the field and so it was tailing off in that way as well you know I'll always remember his last uh instate tour I think it was it must have been before the 22 season it was out in Carney and there were like 200 people there and you know not a not a crowd that you're looking for with the head coach of Nebraska football there and he made some jokes and and some of them were funny and and he and he made a reference to Luke mcaffrey transferring that got back to Christian mcaffrey who who put him on blast on Twitter at the time and like it just it felt like he just he never had never knew how to strike the right tone uh with different things or or how to handle things or whether to to be to be tough or to uh you know approach it with with a little bit of touch or whatever it might be um so I think all those things were were maybe little red flags but uh you know I can't I can't confirm a lot of what Michael said about recruiting calls are being late to practice I don't know how true some of that stuff is but I mean certainly it would line up with some of the results that they saw I mean by by the 22 season it really did feel like Scott Frost was checked out um you you talk about that onsite kick call against Northwestern I mean he if you recall for that game he had given up his play calling uh duties at that point and it almost just felt like man this is a guy who is trying to make a difference he like he just wants to make an impact on the game because he's not calling the plays he's clearly unhappy about that you know Garrett Nelson at the time was in Big 10 media days that year said yeah we're trying to make coach feel better about it and like there was just you could kind of sense there was some dysfunction going on there how deep it went um you know maybe I don't know that we'll ever fully know but certainly uh they were symptoms of something bigger going yeah yeah um I mean I'm not around the program on a daily basis the way Evan and a lot of other people are um when I was I would say you know there was a kind of a general sense of shouldn't this be a little more organized or at least that was my sense um and you know it didn't a lot of the things that I think when we think of what made Nebraska really strong under under Tom Osborne kind of an intense focus on on detail um I would say that this tenure felt the opposite of detail oriented to me and and I think you got to be um most places but specifically out of Nebraska um and and I think with Matt rule it's the thing he's he's hit on so far it's super early his his tenure his tenure two um but he seems to be about that piece of it the like we're going to be good at this for the sake of being good at it we're not going to be good at this so we can snap a you know six game losing streak in ones score games um because that's a very different like psychological thing so um you heard a lot of stuff about Frost um you know it's what do what do you do with it you know I know I think we'll probably get into this a little bit more like I know for us speaking of the outlet I was at at the time like you'd heard things you just Tred to track them down like if you had something you could report you'd report it um but it was irresponsible if you didn't have something you know buttoned up to report it I think the difference becomes you know all over the country when coaches leave well then the responsibility changes a little bit for for some people um in that oh maybe you're willing to talk a little bit more freely at that point um that's probably the the difference between like because there's this genre of Journalism where where it's like it's the well now you tell us story right like where was this where was this uh six six months ago and I mean I I think that's that's where it comes from for me at least the way I tried to do it um in terms of like working with our staff is like we got to get this stuff buttoned up and I mean I I have the utmost respect for what Evan and the team at the world heral do and I'm sure they were in a pretty similar boat I love that explanation Evan by the way because I remember that that was a huge concern for a lot of people that would say well why didn't the media report this beforehand why is this just coming out now after he's gone so I love that you explain that that's great for especially for our listeners I think they'll find that really really interesting yeah I mean it's a slippery slope on what you're what you're gonna report on and what you're not especially you don't have concrete evidence but um you know that like you said like you guys said there's there's some maybe some signs of dysfunction or dis you know lack of organization um but when Trev Alberts came in as athletic director ctor you know he kind of seemed to indicate you know something similar that there is a lot that need to be cleaned up in the athletic department um you know when he he had said he was meeting with frost after you know after every game and um you know certainly seen him suggest there were some accountability measures that maybe were needed or or Trev uh Trevor Kendall Alberts thought were needed um you know looking back was you know we kind of talked about Bill moose and you know maybe he was kind of just the slick talk and guy from Montana who was you know brought in to land Scott Frost and Fred hyberg but you know other than that maybe he's just a just a good dealmaker um you know maybe moose was a good figure head but maybe not the best administrator I guess is the way to say it um do you think there's do you guys think there's anything Bill moose could have done or should have you know been doing to kind of help Frost succeed or maybe kind of manage uh you know the job that is being the co of you know a program like Nebraska well I think he could have been more hands on I mean that's probably the biggest critique from from Bill Moose's time was I mean often he wasn't even in the state he was back on his Ranch in Washington state I believe it's in and and you know sometimes like if he were the ad for SE mat rule uh that's that's probably a little more okay Scott Frost was uh had been a firsttime head coach at an AAC program who was coming home dealing with a a much different set of circumstances and expectations and moose was a guy who had been at Oregon uh and seen some pretty high Lev football I think he could have been maybe more of a mentor or sounding board for Scott Frost as he sort of navigated especially those first couple of years uh as he was going along but like you think of some of the things that that bill moose would say I would say few of them were helpful to what they were trying to do at the time I mean I think of the 2019 uh Big 10 media days when he's in the basement of a Chicago Ballroom saying hey you know six and six that's what I'm looking for and that was a year where they were top 25 and so it kind of felt like okay what what are the expectations here because you're hearing one thing on one side you're hearing another thing from Bill moose you had the the whole comment about early on about uh Ohio State and Michigan are are running a little scared because Nebraska's On The Rise and it was just like you know you don't need that stuff and and Bill moose was a promoter and he was very um confident I think in Scott Frost he called him the pick of the litter at his introductory presser right so like very folksy very uh kind of Everyman sort of personality and I just don't know that it often helped Nebraska's cause what he was doing so I would say yeah he could have been a little bit more um you know Hands-On or or served as more of a mentor as Frost was breaking in at a major college football program that that reminds me I think it was the co year where moose basically said publicly he had tried to because they were having to redo the schedule to accommodate you know no non-conference games covid season all that stuff and so moose basically indicated that he had tried to influence the scheduling process to give Nebraska easier games up front and that he wasn't very successful at that so one like you're basically indicating that you don't think your team's ready to play the good teams and two you're showing your hand as being ineffective I just remember thinking like why why did you say any of this this is not helpful at all like I'm embarrassed for you [Laughter] Bill yeah I mean to I I couldn't agree more with where Evan was at on that like I don't want to pretend like I knew a lot about Frost relationship with Danny White the ad at UCF who's now at Tennessee doing a good job at Tennessee um for the most part but it seemed like that you know it was it was pretty cordial um at at worst um and and maybe it was maybe it was even closer than I'm giving it credit for but Bross was still a young coach at at the point that he took took Nebraska job and and in some ways in in retrospect now you know that you could uh copy paste from from UCF but like it went exactly to plan over Seasons there you go take it 0 and 12 team go to six and six and then you know um go undefeated in in the in your second season and then all your sudden you're you're back at your all modder the last thing Frost needed at that point I think was an ad who was like well glad you're here got you here buddy uh let's go win a trophy uh I give you give you about 36 months to to do that like I think if it it's tough because I think Frost probably needed some somebody who could be a little bit more of a sounding board at least that said I don't think he was ever going to be the guy who like sought out that kind of Mentor type relationship I mean I think back to the offseason where Nebraska where Frost got dinged for their improper use of special teams analyst and that that Trev Albert's press conference where Trev was like it was like dad taking taking son to the neighbors across the street to apologize for breaking window um you know so and and I think that was that was a tough part too of those you mentioned the the weekly meetings like that wasn't Frost's idea right so you know uh it's it it it's tough you know Frost had a lot of confidence in his abilities and it Justified you know to the point that it got him the Nebraska job so it was it was going to be a tough one but you know I don't know if that perfect ad is out there uh to to navigate that what those Waters were over over those I'm trying to I'm trying to Rack my brain there remember that press conference after that special teams debacle was he was Trevor standing up there with him if I remember correctly it was like Dad that's a great comparison um sticking with Bill Moose for just a second uh Evan you mentioned it like his folksy charm uh was one thing people really liked about him he seemed to be pretty popular with Husker Nation with the fan base I know a few of our friends would catch him at a game even a road game and take pictures with him seemed to be pretty well-liked and uh I mean Brandon you said it earlier on that his job was to land Scott Frost and he did that and that made him very popular with the fan base um but he you know abruptly retired before the 2021 season and it was announced on June 25th and then it was effective five days lat later so since things moved so quickly with moose was do you think he was pushed out um and if he was pushed out was it directly related to football or do you guys have any insight both of you in that regard yeah I mean it came together pretty quickly there toward the end um and no I don't think he wanted to leave at that time he had been on the record fairly recently before his departure that he would like to stay on um though he did not like the direction the college athletics was going at that time with the portal and N really just starting to come into being so maybe you know iight for him he is happy that he hung it up but uh you know there were Talks Of course around that time about uh his his his use of alcohol we reported a followup on that from from him about what that was like and it seemed like it was a little bit overblown perhaps uh certain budgetary things within the department maybe weren't as buttoned up uh as Nebraska Regents wanted them to be uh with various contracts um just some of the way that they operated financially I think a lot of that came into it and and when you see a guy get the kind of golden parachute Financial package that he got that tells you uh that they were ready for him to go away and that they were um probably not ready for him to talk too much about it so at that point I think they were ready for for for what was next they felt like uh I don't know that they had Trev Alberts in mind at that time but they were ready for a different leadership group certainly because of I think probably in part because of what we talked about with uh moose as a mentor to some of the young coaches that were at Nebraska at that time but no I don't think he he wanted to leave um but a lot of other people were ready to turn the page onto what was next yeah and opposed to some of the other athletic departures we've talked about in this series I don't think it had much to do with football in in this case like you know it would it would be hard to make that case because I think moose would be like well I got the guy you wanted everybody knew we had to get right and beyond that like I don't know how much like how intimately involved he was with like football like he signed off on things sure um and but and he he was sort of a spokesperson for it you know you talk to the ad about football because it's it's super important but beyond that like uh this wasn't a case of I think it wasn't it wasn't Steve Peterson where it's like well you made your change and it was wrong so now somebody's got to pay for that that that wasn't the case with M we're all in the long wrong line of work guys I mean there's a lot of lot of people getting fired for failing and getting paid millions of dollars to do it so um I'm still I'm still hoping to to find that job before my career is over um I I want to go back real quick guys just to the to the discussion about the severe interview for a minute and I I also remember Damon Benning saying something you know after Frost was fired something along the lines of you know we the fans couldn't handle knowing what he knows um and I feel like at this point you know listening to podcasts or reading it's almost commonplace to hear references to sort of the the disorganization or the dysfunction of of the frost era and I want to make clear to to both of you guys and to all of our listeners like I'm a Hu we're we the common fans are huge fans of the Nebraska sports media I don't think Nebraska fans understand how lucky they have it sometimes that we have so many different Outlets covering the Huskers there's always the joke not not joke but the conversation about there's 40 plus media members at every football practice and for all of us common fans who love to feed the addiction there's so many you know such a diverse um group of of you know Publications and Outlets out there um but you know when you think about it the the head football coach is the state's highest paid employee and so you know and and the other thing is I want to be clear like there were you know I think Evan you referenced some of the rumors that were out there in my in my personal opinion I don't think it's on the World Herald to go chase down rumors about Frost or anybody else's personal life I just think that's nobody you know nobody's business is not the job of the media but if if the guy's late to practice if the guy's not if the guy's not doing his job I guess the way I would put it is this Brandon as you said you know you would chase you tried to chase certain things down you guys did if somebody's got that ver verified information what how much do fans like uh what do fans have a right to know how much do fans deserve to know I don't know if deserve is the right word but like how much do fans have a right to know about some of that stuff that's out there especially when it involves the state's highest paid Public Employee I think that debate I've thought about that before it kind of reminds me of like the discussion around uh Bill Clinton in the late 90s with the Monica Lewinsky scandal because the economy was booming things were going well but you had like this this thing on the side that people were all up in arms about and I remember just the the debate on the one hand that said hey if things are going well man whatever he's doing like it's not our business and on the other side it was people saying well he's a he's the most powerful man in the country he needs to be holding himself to some some standard and I I kind of feel like there's some of that in this debate with Scott Frost too where uh at some point if Nebraska continues to fail and they have still haven't been back to a bowl game since 2016 you need to you need you want to know why that is and sometimes that's bad luck sometimes that's recruiting and maybe in this case there uh was also an element of there just things in in his personal life that were affecting job performance kind of some of the things uh that you're alluding to so yeah I think when you reach that point then yeah those things become fair game and and it's still it's not easy to report because you still have to have people willing to talk about it you still have to uh do your due diligence and make sure you're not feeding in uendo and all the rest certainly we do at the World Herald and I know Brandon did but but you know if you're say a Message Board you could put different things out there especially as a fan and that's where a lot of that stuff I know was fueled from uh you know I've have heard that there were uh former players that maybe weren't always big fans of Scott Frost that would put some of those rumors out there too and just kind of let them take on life of their own so yeah I I think it has to be part of the discussion uh again how much it can be because of just what we know um it kind of is what it is and and the other thing that I would say too is like I think part of the conversation of Scott Frost is complicated because he was he's the only Nebraska coach who was fired in the middle of the season and so like when when Bill Kalan was fired or B Pini was fired or whomever you had this period to sort of process what just happened and and think it through why did it not work with Scott Frost you still had two-thirds of a season to go and by the time that was over hey Matt rule uh on Iowa day it becomes out that he's going to be the next coach so there was never any time and I don't think people maybe wanted time to process about why it didn't work out so it's a very it's a very nuanced I think specific discussion to what just happened here and and I don't know that there's ever going to be an answer that's going to satisfy fans fully I just I I think that's the nature of it yeah yeah I mean I think about some of the specific well the interview you mentioned with with Michael seir and let's call it the J performance piece of it and and leave the other stuff to the side like you know if if there were people who who were like more were more willing to corroborate some of those pieces of it I guess now like could you put out a story now of like hey you know here's here's some of the stuff that was going like there would be a portion of people who would read it like I would be interested in it if somebody had it you know had had the story and felt they had it nailed down um but I think if you put that out there like a lot of the response you're getting is like so what like that was three four five years ago uh we're worried about 2024 now you know which is which is a piece of it too and you know it's it's it's it's it can be a challenge I think to remain like outside of that and in some degree I think that's that's kind of our job as as journalists is to remain outside of that but you know you'll often see it kind of both ways too with just like postgame press conferences like you know some people are you like nobody's asking tough questions what's what's going on here why doesn't anybody have any teeth uh or I think back to the balini area where like a lot of people felt it was really evenly divided of like people were felt like El B's not being treated fairly um so it it's it's kind of it it's tough to navigate sometimes to know like where to where to fall in that and I think ultimately you know you try to determine what's true in in any situation and I think if you you felt you determine what's true um and it's in the public interest you you put it out there I mean it's it's fairly kind of basic basic journalism stuff at least that's that's how I've always tried to keep our appro or my Approach um personally when when I've had decisions like that to make yeah I I appreciate both you guys cander on this I think this is a really interesting discussion um I I think you know some of this gets at the whole like part of what we're doing with the Reckoning episode and I think like you know the fans we've been through so much drama in the post Osborne era and you know right up to including Trevor Kendall Albert's leaving you know not that long ago right and and and and like some dysfunction over the years poor leadership over the years poor decision making and with football a lot of losing Evan to your point you know I think if Frost was going 10- two 11 and one and winning Conference titles uh nobody cares if he's if he's uh showing up late to practice right or or whatever the case might be um I think from the fan perspective and this not all of this and most of this is not the media's sort of responsibility at all but I think fans feel like they're repeatedly asked to show up they're asked for donations they're asked to buy tickets we continue to show up right I mean we continue to fill the stadium after seven losing seven consecutive losing Seasons now we're getting asked to contribute to nil efforts as well and you know I think Husker fans are the best fan base in the world I'll I'll I'll fight that to fight To My Grave with anybody and so and I think some of this is just fans and then something happens like the Trev Alberts thing blindsides uh you know the the the whole Nebraska community and fans are like wait a second what's going on here so there's always people always want more to the story I think winning fixes a lot of this and hopefully we're we're well on our way to that all right Gentlemen let's pivot here um we've got the final verdict of the common fans back to the question at hand how in the world did Scott Frost not work at Nebraska Evan do you want to start sure I don't I don't think there's any one reason I think we touched on a lot of it um you know I think some of it was a was about the transition uh period that he was in um I mean he had to he was the head coach when the transfer portal came into being when nil came into being he had to adjust that again everybody did so that's I think one piece of it um I think the baggage piece is a real thing I mean you think back to to when he came uh to Lincoln and before he went up and talked to the media on the third floor at Memorial Stadium he spoke with uh multiple hundred former players in the waight room and so I think that immediately set the tone that like yeah these are the guys that he's working for not not the fans Not certainly not the media like it's the former players that really uh rallied behind him and wanted him so I think that's part of it um you know I think the the certainly the scheme was was not a great fit for the Big 10 and maybe you know as much as anything and I think we're learning this more now with the bat rule era is in modern college football like the the kind of head coach you want is is someone who's got a steady culture and a steady identity and what Scott Frost's uh best asset was I think was as a play caller I mean he was an outstanding offensive coordinator at Oregon and and took that to UCF and when you become the head coach at Nebraska your best quality sort of gets lost in the noise of all the other things you have to do as a head coach so I think in that way it wasn't a great fit they never really established an identity we talked about kind of what they wanted to do on offense and defense but it never it manifested you couldn't see that in the statistics you certainly couldn't see that in the game results so I think all of that sort of came together and he he didn't have a ton of uh administrative support too as we mentioned with with Bill moose so I think it's you know it's it's such a frustrating it's probably not a satisfying answer to a lot of people because I don't think you can say it was it was one single thing but I think all those circumstances uh coming together you know sort of snowballed into this really unsatisfying era where there was so much potential so much optimism and very rarely was any of it realized well put yeah I I I completely agree that it's it's there's there's so much that's still here and still wor sifting through I think um in an effort to try like if you force me like you got like two sentences what's what's it going to be I go back to kind of where we started with with that you know press conference and you know this is an oversimplification but like kind of came down to humility to me um and and I think this ties in in a couple of ways of like not just like how they came in but like in some ways the one score loss thing kind of hurt them uh well we obviously know that they lost the games but I think hurt Frost in that like you really did seem that close so you know do you need wholesale changes um it would have taken you know a good amount humility to be like yep I I see where this is going and it's not working so we're going to need to change our thinking a little bit because he is a brilliant play caller and it was such a strange Confluence of eras um some of which I haven't mentioned but like we look at it now uh you know I think as Evan was kind of alluding to you're you're kind of looking at the era of the CEO coach which which you have to be when you fig you're in like nil into this piece of it now uh I think Frost was would have had a hard time like being that guy like does mean he couldn't have become that person but I almost wonder if like his trajectory you know it almost feels like the trajectory of like the G5 up and comer you know moving up to a Nebraska which for a long time was just like that's that's how it worked that's that's how you got from point A to point B that almost feels dead you know you look at a guy like sha Lewis go Le a Mac job to become the head coach or come offens coordinator at Colorado and now he's back at at San Diego State Jason candle's been at Toledo nobody's tried to hire him away um I just I I wonder if uh as we move to more of a power two era if if that piece of things isn't isn't going away and if so then Frost was you know probably in the last batch of guys who who who was in that group where where it made total sense where it's like yep he went to UCF did great I mean Urban Meyer was only at Utah which was you know then still in the Mountain West for two years before he got the Flor job um so it's uh yeah there's just so much in there and so much change just in the time that Frost was was at Nebraska and it's ongoing right now do you guys think can I just add real quick I I want to add real quick on Brandon's point about humility because you know what the other the opposite end of that Spectrum example is at Nebraska is Fred hyberg who also was a young coach who came to Nebraska and he'd been at the Bulls but like who had a vision for what he wanted to do offense offense offense and he he did adjust and they make the tournament and he's still there right like I I think that's really fascinating because those two coaches came on at the same time roughly they had very similar offense based identities one of them stuck with what he he went what he had all the way through the other guy adjusted and look at how the results are I think that's really interesting that's a good point great great Point yeah that's a great call out Evan I'm curious what what the group thinks about this um the transition year like you said Brandon almost any think could happen in a transition year we all have to suffer through them the transition Year's 2018 they go 4 and8 tons of hype going into 2019 you can make the argument they should have been at worst seven and five they blow a 17 nothing halftime lead against Colorado that Purdue game I still think about that Purdue game that they absolutely should have won as well and then they also had what were they up 213 on Indiana or something like that 14 maybe it was 143 um and then 2110 or something like that but they lost that game to Indiana I feel like there was um you know the Iowa game was close as you know Frost always played Iowa close um you know it felt like they could have had you know eight or nine wins That season and that was there was so much hype going into that season do you feel like when it didn't work in 2019 they didn't get even get to a Bull game and then of course 2020 was the co season they go three and five somewhere in there maybe post 2019 or post 2020 do you think like if my recollection is Frost was so confident that they had the blueprint that it was going to take off in year two and do you think when it didn't and also you know combined with the fact that homegrown Nebraska boy from Wood River quarterback of the N last National Championship team it was so important to him and when it didn't take off like he thought it was going like it should did it start to like cave in on him did it did it become too much like and maybe and maybe that's what led to maybe the some of the issues about being late to practice or not calling recruits maybe that happened later in the tenure when when things felt like they were they were crumbling I don't know what what do you guys think about that I think you can feel that pressure I mean I think about the talks leading up to the 2020 season where Nebraska was pushing for football and the messaging from Nebraska was different from say Ohio State in that I think at Nebraska when you're the head coach you're it's more it's more than just the football like you feel there's almost like a moral responsibility to the community like Nebraska and Scott Frost said it like he they wanted to play for the players but they also wanted to play for the community and for the the restaurants and the shops that that rely on those game days to generate Revenue so I I feel like there's an extra weight maybe that comes with that and I would say too just where he was in life and I think most of you guys can relate as well as like as uh fathers of young kids like he had young kids like toddler I think a couple you know toddler age uh young young children and so like you're feeling that poll as well and so I think there were a lot of things um kind of kind of Weighing on you and and you I think you saw some of the discontent start to come out certainly the Maurice Washington situation we didn't even talk about that but like that was a real weight a real drain on the program as he was going through his legal issues he was a a late Frost s that first year um they wanted to keep him around obviously he was a dynamic Talent who had a lot of issues off the field but I think all that stuff and then just again being at Nebraska um feeling like uh you're accountable to a lot of former players who wanted access who wanted to be back who wanted you to be that bridge to Modern Nebraska football I do think a lot of that stuff can can weigh him down I think he had a quote after his third year or so where he's like man you know I am I'm this is making me old trying to get that level of discipline that they want and so uh when it doesn't happen you know it's almost like uh here's another presidential reference like when you're when you're when you see a guy come into office versus when you see him go out and how much he ages in four years like like that was Scott Frost we kind of saw that in real time yeah um Matt Jeff Brandon any any any final thoughts on that I mean I do yeah go ahead go ahead no go ahead Brandon I mean I I think it it was part of the reason Nebraska was able to get Frost is is part of the reason it was also kind of bound to get heavy quickly if if you know things didn't kind of go their way you know it's not just that he was a former Husker like he's a little bit unique in my mind and that you know well his his mom's role at the University and his father was also a former Husker but then he's he's from Wood River and you know and there were all these an anecdotes about you know how he and Ryan held would would do sparkel quizzes about towns of Nebraska and they would like test each other about trying to to name the county seat or name all 93 counties like I mean he was uni he wasn't just a Husker like he was uniquely kind of I think tied to the state and and you know and that came through some of these times because I mean so of these press conferences postgame press conferences ended up being the same because the games felt so much the same and and what do you say and you know he would say things like I'm going to get this right like I'm going to get this right you know for for Nebraska like I'm I'm the guy and and sure those are the sorts of things you say but always carried at least a little bit of extra weight for me so I I do think when you just could never quite Crest the hill um it the the downside to that was maybe uniquely heavy for for this particular coach given his background essentially yeah I that's a great great Point Jeff yeah my only thought if you want a serious answer like I I think a lot of it had to do with the late to practice off the- field stuff just simply if you're hired to be a leader of men and that's what a head coach is I feel it's just really hard to command respect when you're not leading by example and you know it says a lot when if you're not showing up to things on time or doing things the right way if you're clearly not showing that you care as much much why why are your if he's not caring why should I type of mentality just like with any other job so that certainly didn't help his case I think that's a big reason why things didn't work out plus um I mean Brandon you said it earlier with maybe moose should have been you know however you want to word it checked on him a little bit more just kind of kept him in line a little bit or you know managed him almost maybe things would have worked out better but if you're looking for a delusional excuse I the college football industrial complex definitely engineered a lightning storm to get that Aon game cancelled and we were downhill from there so gosh how did we how do we not bring how do we not put this on the college football industrial complex that's exactly right Jeff that is spot on that is sp you know I uh Mato I want let me respond to something Jeff real quick you you make a good point Jeff uh and we'll probably until somebody writes the book Brandon but uh we'll probably never know the extent of those issues or what those issues were but I do remember remember thinking like giving him the benefit of the doubt probably well into year four and finally thinking to myself okay when you when you have this many close losses when you have this many if just one more guy makes a play maybe we win that game that ultimately is a culture issue it's a discipline issue it's a it's a leader it's a it's an issue at the top right and maybe it's as simple as you know worst case maybe he's missing practice all the time maybe it's not that complicated maybe he just wasn't that detailed oriented I don't know maybe it's somewhere in the middle right again we'll probably never know until Evan and Brandon partner and write the book together um but um I do think like there was clear to your point about detail Brandon that was just missing right and I think you know one of the one of the anecdotes I've heard is um again he gets full credit for what he did at UCF but one of the things I've heard is that team had a lot of talent um well who's the guy before frosto lry um George O kind of lost the locker room and was kind of a drill sergeant type of coach and so Frost's approach of a lighter touch love on the players which he talked about at Nebraska too maybe a little bit less disciplined kind of was was the spark that UCF needed but maybe that wasn't what Nebraska needed in the time he was there Mato go ahead yeah you know I think this this whole series is about you know what happened and what ifs right the frost era like you named him off earlier TJ the the list of wh ifs is so long that when you to me like okay when I have the a list that long well if this would happen in that game this would have that game you have multiple times is happening in multiple Seasons it's just not working um and and like we've talked about there's multiple reasons why you know it did it probably didn't work um but I just find it I just find it so interesting that it felt like this this era to me felt more like uh death by a thousand paper cuts than like all these other eras kind of felt like okay that there was one or two turning points there where okay that was the nail in the coffin or that was you know for the most part this one felt like several seasons of the same thing over and over Groundhog Day and I think the blinders were on for a lot of us because we wanted it to work so bad and I think that way this one felt a little bit different to me um than you know the other coaches that we've had over the last 20 some years um but you know I don't I don't think I just don't think I think Scott Frost is a really good football coach um but I don't think he was ready for and I hate this term but he's ready I don't think he was ready for the Fishbowl of being the head coach at Nebraska being the most powerful man in the state um I just I just don't think he was ready for that responsibility um and like you said TJ maybe you know maybe there was a point um where he realized that hey what I what I want to do isn't working and and maybe he just shut down a little bit we don't know and we when we won't know um but I just find it so absolutely bizarre I don't think it there was ever a moment where I'm like well we should have let him finish out the that Fifth Season like it was I mean in in a way I kind of feel like yeah maybe Trev Alberts didn't have tror excuse me Trevor Kendall Alberts didn't have to fire him so early and and and could have paid him seven and a half million dollars less but you know I think that it happened the way it had to happen so yeah I don't think it would have worked can I can I put one other wh if out there too let's hey guys we we can keep going we go for hours let's keep let's do it I just want this this may I've always wondered about this if they had fired Scott Frost after the 21 season how differently would fans view that era because if you think back at that time there still was a sizable chunk to the fan basee that said yeah all most of these losses were by one score like it's not like they were getting blown out uh they were competitive and that was always the the big thing uh you know under under previous coaches was man you couldn't win the big games you got blown out by equal or better programs that was not the case with Nebraska at that time so in some ways uh giving him the start to that 22 season and letting things completely go off the rails galvanized the fan base I think into this consensus that okay it is time to move on but I just wonder man how split would fans have been had they made the move after 21 in hindsight they could have hired Kalin deore at that time which would have been really interesting but I don't know what you guys think about that but I think just the that doomed Fifth Season brought a lot of closure and resolution that maybe uh is is beneficial now as they're moving forward under my rule right yeah I me I think that's the way I think that's the way it had to happen to because just just because of what you just said there was a good sizable chunk of the fan base you I would say at least 50% would be my my estimate but um that didn't want him to go and said you know he's our guy and give him a little more time but I think that those three first three games that season I think I think put the nail in the coffin I would say although he deserves no credit for anything and he is now spending his days with the Texas A&M male yell Squad that Trevor Kendall Albert handled that situation perfectly yeah completely uniquely which I think speaks to like just what a kind of unicorn situation the whole Scott Frost era was unless there's a school that just like can't afford the buy out like find me another place with the resources of Nebraska that lets a coach finish the previous season 0 0 and six I mean because they were three and three in that three and N season and lost F straight games yeah and and to your point I agree with you even after losing six straight I think it was probably pretty 5050 of like should he get another year um you know it's just it's it's strange you know hopefully hopefully we all get to keep keep following this for a long time but I I don't know that we'll see another one like like the five years we had with with Scott Frost no well guys I gotta say I I really didn't know how to feel about going into this episode because it was like reop opening like recent wounds you know and like going going back on the recent past and the the stitches had healed and now they're opened up again right exactly but I don't know I feel this has been cathartic like I feel like closure TJ closure we part of part of what we said about maybe the reason for doing the Reckoning series is to do our small part the common fans part to exer exercise whatever demons have possessed the Nebraska football program and help Husker Nation move forward uh into broad sunlit Uplands and so Perhaps Perhaps we've taken a step in that direction uh tonight gentlemen this has been a thoroughly enjoyable conversation we're going to give Evan the last word Brandon do you have any final thoughts no I think we I think we've kind of talked through it all um well oh I've got one just when I thought that I'd gone through all of the Scott Frost scarce stats possible they didn't beat an FB team that finished with a Reon winning record after 2018 and the two that they beat then were seven and five Michigan state was one and Minnesota was the other one in Minnesota oh yeah the first season wow that's rough yeah Evan any what an uplifting such a beautiful beautiful segue let's let's pull let's pull you back down in the mud TJ no I mean it's uh I agree like it's it it's a chance to process when you move on so quickly and I know this is a a Scott Frost segment but I do think reflecting on it does give me increased appreciation for what Matt rules doing uh just the thoroughness of things the the culture piece uh you know this is the opposite of of ju Del Robinson leaving because uh they're they're they're handing him the ball as a running back when he wants to be the receiver right this is the opposite of uh you know just some of the discontent individually uh within the team within the fan base uh certainly Scott Frost was not one for the spotlight that was not something that he like he talked about the Fishbowl I like to say that Matt rule has the gills to be in the Fishbowl I don't know that Scott Frost did so um I think if nothing else like thinking back on where Nebraska has been gives me more optimism and and maybe a positive outlook for where it's going to be because it does look like it's being built the right way with the with with attention specifically to winning within the Big 10 building a roster in the modern era all that sort of things I think there are a lot of lessons that can be taken from the frost era that we're starting to see maybe be learned at Nebraska after all these years into 2024 there that's the way we end it Evan I love that um all right common fans that concludes our examination of the post Osborne era uh coaching tenures um but you're not done with the Reckoning series because we are going to look forward to the promise of Matt rule there will be more uh Reckoning episodes uh one or two more uh before it's all said and done so um hope you enjoyed this thoroughly engaging conversation Husker Nation uh we will be back at you soon until next time as always gbr for life [Music] [Music] [Music]