Jordan Cox and Olly Stone Come Into the England Squad - And We Remember England Legend Graham Thorpe

you're listening to the cricket [Music] podcast hello everyone and welcome to the cricket podcast where today we're going to be talking about England's test team for their series V Sri Lanka we're going to be talking about the 100 but first we're going to say A Farewell a fun farewell to Graham Thorp who sadly passed away at the age of 55 I'm joined by Ross leg how are you doing Ross yeah um somber news today was it 55 is yeah it's too young it's not in this it's too young and we're joined by maxroy Brown how you doing Max hello yeah uh good thanks and obviously yeah Echo Ross what Ross has uh just said is sad sad news about gr Thorp and obviously wish his family and everyone well uh yeah I mean obviously the news came through today he'd been ill for a couple of years since um uh an incident when he was the head coach of the Afghan cricket team um it still still came as a bit of a shock though didn't it Max um and and I think for people of our generation one of the first probably one of the first anyway Cricket Heroes that we'll be able to remember from uh our younger years and we'll miss him won't it won't we we will and um yeah I think that's the that's the thing you know for like you say people in our generation and and yeah um my thoughts in particular were we around CH grahe thought being he was that sort of big figure when I was growing gr up and starting to get into cricket and following England that Gro Thorp was one of the the main guys in that middle order you know you'll remember the the cover drives and the trademark pull shots that he was so known for and really bringing um just bringing Excellence to that England side and obviously the the stats speak for themselves don't they I mean 100 tests at an average of 44.6 that is that's no mean feat he played 300 odd first class games for sui um scoring PES and PES of runs so um obviously sad news for sori fans as well as you know um England cricket fans and there's loads of memorable moments as well on there for for Graham Thorp in in an England shirt I do have a pop quiz for you though um I don't know if you don't know if you were aware that when he first started out playing first class Cricket he was an allrounder batting number eight and bowling team up do you know who his first first class Wick it was forari um no I don't that's going to be quite difficult to get isn't it yeah well it's it's a man we've had on the podcast Jack Chris David go David I did just Google that to be fair got got got David G obw as his first Wicket In First Class Cricket um Inside Edge not spotted by the Umpire and triggered is um apparently buner was apparently what happened but yeah I mean it's um it is a tremendous shame um GRE thought I think as well he was he was in that era of England you know just as they were kind of well not very good and then getting better you know he he his career obviously for England ended in 2005 just before the memorable ashes series when Kevin Peterson picked up the mantle and and took England onwards but you know up to that point gr was basically like a standout element of class in that England side that quite often got battered by the Aussies and you know you wonder if he'd managed you know through um you know through selection or you know unfortunate injuries or whatever if he'd managed to get himself out in a few more ashes series than he actually did well the the story might have been slightly different for England in those games but he's um yeah a big icon in that England side and one that will miss greatly that was the first comment I saw this morning after the news of his death broke Max and it was saying that if Graham Thorp played in the ashes instead of Ian Bell it wouldn't have been such a close Ash series and I just like I enjoy the revisionist history of of that yeah it was yeah excellent yeah a few more moments uh centy on debut uh I think away in the ashes which is a pretty good way to announce yourself uh and Away 100 in Sri Lanka against mura lithan that is a pretty decent accomplishment uh and he had range as well he hit a Sentry on one occasion I think away in Pakistan with One Singular boundary ran the other 96 runs and briefly held the record for the fastest ever double ton in test Cricket before I I think it was was it Scott styris who overtook him like a day later or Jacob Oram some um kind of nobody well not not nobody not they're not nobody um both of those are like very capable cricketers as you know they proved by getting the fastest have a double ton in in test Cricket but um from an English Cricket point of view it would have been nice if Thorp had managed to hold on to that record for more than one Innings of a of a test match uh I think yeah it's fair to say well will miss gra Thorp um meant quite a lot to us when we were youngsters and and still does so um wish wish his family well and um his friends well I think course anything from you um I think we always like to go out and think around the Vibes element of someone and wasn't wasn't Graham Thorp one of the people who was um got the party shut down when England last traveled to the ashes he was U I think it was the batting coach and they were out drinking till six o'clock in the morning was on the roof yeah and he lit up a cigarette or a cigar inside that got them kicked out and it's bits like that as well you want the personality to also go with the the Brilliance of of it that's what kind of makes yeah great Sportsman right so yeah um I'm sure that's how how he'd like to be remembered none of those centuries he were just talking about a time he smoked a cigar well na no I'm saying he brings the party as well as brings the profession it's the human element isn't it Ross like we said about Shane War um fellas we have to move on to some Cricket now um there is a test series coming up against Sri Lanka which just still a little wild away I think isn't it it's 100 time at the moment England have named their squad for that series I'll run through it very quickly Ben Stokes will Captain them that would be a surprise Gus ainson Shard Basher Harry Brook Jordan Cox new boy Ben Ducket Dan Lawrence Ole Pope Matthew pots Joe root Jamie Smith OE Stone Chris wokes and Mark Wood are I think 15 but maybe I counted that wrong Max let's have your instant reaction I mean there's it's it's very much the same as it was before Pennington out with an injury Crawley out with an injury Cox in um there's definitely an innuendo there and I I couldn't get it for the the YouTube show for the banner at the top of the screen and um olly Stone returns to the team what do you think about all of that it's interesting isn't it the so obviously the yeah the Cox and stone replacing Crawley and Pennington both of whom are injured but it says a lot about England's thought process that they've gone down these routes Jordan Cox you know Zack Crawley is is the opening batter he's injured they've called up Jordan Cox who isn't an opening batter and Dan Lawrence is expected to open the batting who isn't an opening batter so it's quite I I I suppose you could say confusing and perplexing from the England staff and that they're not testing out I suppose someone who could replace Crawley in a future series if you know they needed someone to open the batting but maybe they think Dan Lawrence has got the attributes that um to do that so it'll be interesting to see how that goes first and foremost I mean Jordan Cox can keep wickets so it's nice that there's a backup Wicket Keeper in the squad that's the first time that's happened for a short while so I suppose plus points there and then the other thing is on the Bowling side Oli Stone coming in it's just more of that fetish for Pace isn't it on that the the England side on on the Rob key in the the selection panels you can see the thought process they with the side they selected in the Series against the West Indies when Anderson was retired um Mark Wood came in and it was wood and ainson and you know wokes offering the swing so clearly that focus with Oli Stone coming in is continuing that ele that that side of the the bowling attack they want the pace they want the the raw Firepower to go at Sri Lanka and I'd imagined it will probably be sufficient to overcome Sri Lanka in a test Series in England but it it is interesting to see that that's the route that they're thinking of of going down I don't know I mean it's it's it's not a huge it's not exactly a like for like is it on the bubbling side with Pennington I think Pennington's reason pretty sharp but also a bit more about um skills with the with the ball and only stone is probably a bit more raw Pace Merchant that England have been looking for in the nicest possible way to maybe us we don't really know um and that's not to say we don't know who Penning is but there's there's a big difference between the amount of data you get from a county stream and like the word on the street or the word on the county circuit and what you see when a player plays in a test match we you know and Pennington has brought in because apparently he BTS quite quickly and he can do some bits and he's young and England to thinking about the future so he ticked to kind of a lot of boxes but we like you know they didn't play him it's it's quite difficult for us to and say it's like for a like or it isn't a like for like um I I I well we're talking about likes I do like Oly Stone good to have him back around I think he's a test quality bowler when his when his body holds up obviously um but I in a in a in a way wouldn't wouldn't really be that surprised if we never heard from Pennington again from from an England point of view that's the kind of it's It's been a little bit of a merry go round on the or if Oly Stone gets injured five minutes before the the reason we don't hear from him again either yeah I mean it's a bit like that Ian if you think about the England seamers we've had and I I haven't compiled a list here so I'm going to miss some people out but last summer Josh Tong he was all the rage wasn't he nowhere near the team is is he injured not really sure he's injured yeah he's injured yeah he is injured yeah but we the overturns we had Matt fiser didn't we before that we had Ole Robinson he's been jettison he's definitely not injured his County coach doesn't understand why he hasn't being picked I think there are some other people who maybe do understand Bo he hasn't but um it's not been around the team isn't he just coming back to as well yeah it hasn't been a settled bowling unit and so we don't really know where Pennington ranks in England's depth charts and and so on Sam Cook lots of people touting his name for example he did never got picked because he got injured um so who knows where we stand who I mean Oli Stone Ross he could be a sheer desperation pick or he could be opening the bowling for England in um the All In important ashes Series in 18 months what do you think about uh the scam bowling situation I think it's I think it is what it is I know it's again that's deep Insight yeah yeah more questions your way genu you just don't know what you're going to get right Ole Stone before was hitting over 90 miles an hour and was there but he has broken down on more than one occasion when he's been playing in and around the England squad so it is a risk to kind of take it um is Matt pots actually ever going to play for England in that part because it kind of feels put the team great Squad block absolutely brilliant Squad block but is he going to really be picked against Gus ainson after he took 22 wickets in the first test series he's played in markwood is touching what 97 miles an hour in the last test series goes to 100 um so it's one of those ones he's it's almost like a is it Matt pots and Chris wokes in the kind of tradeoff there but then Matt pox is a far worse better than Chris wokes is so he's a little bit just like maybe Chris wokes is just going to play every test match for England now moving forward and his hard number eight yeah who knows um but I think it's great that hly stone is back I think he offers some real promise to it but it's really difficult to turn around and say yes he's a massive addition to this team where he's not had a elongated spell in the team right he's not demonstrated that he's got the fitness and that's not ultimately his fault right people's bodies go through all kinds of different things but bow fast bowling but yeah I I can't sit there and say this is a massive gain or not until we actually see him in action yeah um I think that's fair uh Max what do you think about Dan Lawrence opening the batting I think it's odd I think it's really bizarre I really do I has he has he ever done it I don't think so I don't believe there is any I'm sure some maybe when he was maybe was at school he opened the batting for his school team because he would have been better than literally everyone else but yeah it's it's it's a it's a different skill set isn't it opening the batting in I mean well county cricket Red Bull Cricket let alone test Cricket so yeah I mean I can only assume that they've seen something about the way he plays that they think it will it will work and that they can get something out of it and maybe it's a case of they like having someone like Dan Lawrence around because he can he's a really useful viable backup isn't he because he can I suppose you could B him at three if or four if you wanted to he can come selfless as well yeah so he can fulfill a few different roles I suppose in that England lineup That align with the way they want to play cricket he can ball some off spin which is always fun to watch because it's uh a an all over the place action with legs and limbs a Kimbo and maybe they think if they can get him in as an opening batter as well then that's an extra string to his bow in terms of his option as a as a backup but do you want to end up being the James Milner of England test Cricket I don't just ask Mo Ali yeah no I think it's I think it's strange but uh you won't know until he try it suppose so it will be a good a good opportunity for him to to give it a go but yeah I don't really like suck England section approach home you're at home as well right so is this FR poisonous oh this might be it's it's not like you're strapped for how many people you can take with you and you're going you know thousands of miles away and that everyone that's going to be a backup needs to be with you in that country and maybe that's why they're thinking well let's get Dan Lawrence in as the backup because when we are in Australia in the middle of nowhere and if our opener breaks down we can just parachute him straight in without having to worry about taking too many people over or flying someone over on boxing day and ringing him up on Christmas and being like bad luck mate uh don't eat too much turkey it's you know but that's like I don't know if it's like that that's a bit extreme right so I'm confused as to why they're not just looking at someone who could open the batting for England they tried Alex Le for a little bit didn't they and he was okay and then they told Tom sibl was playing in the blast for sorry and giving it a go he's he's clearly wants uh wants another stab another another crack at that one oh yeah I don't think Dom SI is ever going to play for England again is he I think it's probably unlikely I mean I yeah I don't know um I the England are obviously England aren't they and they're going to try England things yeah and this is very much an an England thing um if you're if you are interested in Dan Lawrence and opening I'd look back through some scorecards see where he' been batting for sari like and um it's been like three or six depending on whether Ole Pope's available he has actually opened the bowling though for S this season so like he's not without credentials he's not with he has done some opening um I I I don't know if it won't work I mean like if you look at England's two other openers um Crawley and and Ducket it didn't really look like Z Crawley wasn't an opening batter for a very very long time and then that kind of worked out and fairly sure that Ben Ducket had been batting in the middle order for quite a while in County Championship Cricket um well he had been for England when he first came in hadn't he that was yeah he had opened the batting before but it wasn't like oh here is a guy piling on the run so maybe England don't think that the skills that you need if you're Jake Libby in the county championship and you you've been scoring pretty fluently for a couple of years maybe they don't think those are skills that translate into test Cricket maybe they think just pick the better player and put them in a batting slot and yeah I guess hope for the best does feel like a very England thing to think that doesn't it opening opening the batting isn't actually a skill in itself make you a good opening batter ball a harder so it goes to the boundary quicker Max yeah I mean to Cricket that's that's a theet that's a perfectly with yeah you know that for a long time in football people were like yeah let's fill the side in number 10 we need sweep the opposite of that yeah they were like you need a big tall guy who can't really kick it at the back and then you need like a couple of short guys who can run fast but can't really kick it on the left and the right and then you need you know a big lump up front there was a way you did things especially in English football yeah and then other bloody effective on a Saturday afternoon in our league well exactly yeah no and then in other countries what happens what happens if everybody on the team could kick the ball and it turns out it worked really really well and and so there there has definitely been a shift and I don't know how directly this applies to Cricket maybe not at all it's it's Up For Debate there's been a shift in football to like prioritizing technical excellence in all positions on the pitch and you know you you are not going to get into a a top tier football team you're probably not even to get into a Premier League football team just because you can tackle people and you can head the ball like you will be un unbelievably good like the the the worst center back in the in the Premier League would probably be the best passer of the football in League two and in League one like they they'd be a dominant Technical Machine a couple of Divisions below maybe this is where we're going to Cricket maybe Dan Lawrence and you know I'm not sure Dan Lawrence is the put quite a pedestal here mate but no if you are thinking if england of thinking along the the lines that actually all round Cricket skill is more valuable to us us than having this guy who can do one skill better than other people but can't do any of the other skills as well as anyone else in the team maybe maybe that's a reasonable argument going for the giant approach they maybe the one in four times that Dan Lawrence survives a new ball he cashes in and does things that Jake Libby can't I'm not necessarily saying it was between Jake Libby and and Dan Lawrence here I I was just looking at a scorecard with Jake Libyan and though he has scored some runs uh and there'll be people at werer who maybe argue that he should have had a go for England or you know lease maybe maybe maybe Alex lease does better in the conventional opening the batting sense you know hangs around for a bit longer than than Don Dan Lawrence in most games but when Dan Lawrence does stay around he punishes the opposition and maybe that's um maybe that is a viable tactic so you know maybe they're not even thinking that I think that's a a thing that we need to keep in our heads as well that England aren't even thinking else he deserves to go he's been around the team for a little while where do you want a bat Dan we've got a space you take it I mean yeah like I would hope I would hope that they're at least batting around some of these ideas but we haven't ruled out Chris W's opening the batting how good is Dan Lawrence at golf I reckon pretty good I reckon Dan Lawrence he strikes his natural Sportsman it leads on quite nicely to Jordan Cox that one actually okay I you heard the don't if you heard the interview don't if you heard the interview on Sunday at the at the 100 about Jordan Cox and what he reckoned about his call up but um apparently the first thing yeah first thing that McCullum said to him on the phone was to ask him whether he sunk the putt that is the uh WhatsApp profile picture on Jordan Cox's uh um so that's that's why he's in the side boy they don't even care do they like I mean at this point it's just they're just they're taking the mick out of everyone you have to kind of respect it who's sometime I don't completely ha who's actually going to be all right to hang around with they've got like a friendship group and they're just to be like look who's going to add to that potentially or not National cricket team not some drinking buddies yeah look you've got it's all about mental health and psychological safety these days Jack and that when you're with your friends is very very important and so that's what they're doing in the England cricket team bunch of Geyers like what they're doing I'm not saying it's right or wrong but it's probably wrong if we're probably going to win the ashes and it's fine but then we'll go back to picking teams based upon ability not just Vibes but I'm not I'm not I'm not making an anti- ability argument I I I don't I think the results actually do speak themselves and I know there's like a a contingent of people who are like the world test championship table Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah Yeah but like you know they were bow bowling overs they were a bit unlucky we just gonna pull quickly they were unlucky to draw the ashes and then they went to India and you know what normally happens to team in India happens to teams in India except they actually won a test which is pretty good um I yeah they're they're probably odds on to win 3-0 against Sri Lanka barring weather um they're in a they are in a pretty good place and what they're doing does seem to be work and does seem to be working and the tactics do seem to work but they are objectively weird as well like I love it is weird it is weird when your captain says yeah he's gonna bow 100 miles an hour about any bow even even Mark Wood he's he's just gonna bow faster than anyone ever despite it's not it's not going to happen is it like pick a spinner based upon High release Point that's it no literally that's it was not their average not he's just quite tall and he thinking was going to be a bit of a pain B we're going to call up a new player we're going to pick an opener no we're going to pick an uh um you know a good upand cominging player certainly not an opener a good upand cominging player and on the phone call first thing we're going to ask is are you any good at golf or did you s your PO like and as as it turns out Jordan Cox has actually had an injury can't even play golf at the moment not even fit to play golf didn't even you done yourself if you're not fit to play golf but you're fit to play cricket I'm not sure I'm sure I'm sure it must be some sort of rotational yeah I have no idea yeah Dr to ganguli is in the house bloody H yeah I don't know anything else about this team uh when did the test start should we look that up that's probably important 21st of August so three days after the hundo final so um it's Old Trafford which is yeah personally I think wor test grounds but um yeah yeah we're getting some late season Cricket are we yeah we are we runs into uh runs into September I'm I'm at the oval um for that nice um sum getting later and later doesn't it so maybe maybe this is the new the new time I'm a little bit gutted for Zack Crawley perfectly honest I think he would have enjoyed playing against Sri Lanka so um I feel like he earned Sri Lanka yeah you know yeah after all yeah yeah now Ben Ducket is going to be sitting there cash in making sure he's in the team for the next two years and they hit no runs against anyone else lovely um yeah so it is a shame for say broken a finger I don't know we'll um we'll obviously do a show near of the time talking about the Sri Lankans and stuff it is when you say it's the 21st of August 16 days before is that's a long time to pack isn't it like that's it's half a month 17 days giv you time to go and get fitted for some new clubs jck that's true I yeah I mean surely by then Jordan Cox will be able to yeah he might not be driving off the te but he can he can take a five iron and yeah you know you caddy maybe that's why they've picked him read the greens well um a left or right on this one baz anyone want to make any outrageous predictions to that series not like any preview stuff but like anything weird that you think will happen Ross you look like you've got something on your mind um no I quite is batana gonna play I think that's always the keep up until like Sri Lanka re announc their side and kind of get into the meet and drink of that Angela Matthews is he going to be around and score a century against England like he typically comes and does Matthew's manad yeah that is um very very strange but I'm looking forward to seeing actually in test match cricket the last couple of weeks they've been playing against India in the white ball stuff and they've actually run them pretty close with B has been a tie and a super over and then a tie and then they won so they're doing pretty well so you're looking at um yeah hopefully a competitive series and even if it's like why would you rate the competitive series of England versus West Indies four out of 10 jackon on the competitive scale I I reckon if we get if we can get to a six out of 10 that'd be that'd be worthwhile yeah just look at those India result I I mean I I won't lie India B India a yeah India Indian 1.5 you know they' have got some proper players in the team but they've also got some joke players them it wasn't like the first thing I thought I would switch on there's there's a whole Olympics happening there's 100 um I've not been all over it we'll say that I've been keeping an eye on it I did have enjoyed the memes of the India collapse when they were tied Shivam du um gets out ashdeep seeing goes for the SLO sweep first ball they need one to win that's what you call composure that's what you call composure I mean why would you do that they they they had two and a bit overs they probably would have got a wide just stay there asep just stay there first didn't even have a look it was like when you're a panjab Kings player though Jack you kind of get to do whatever you like you you know if you've been picked in that team you're there as a lottery player Your Role is comedy notory yeah yeah yeah I I also thought um again like not all over this but Jeffrey vandersay what a name for a cricketer six for 33 Skittles India in the last in the in the ODI that they they just played to give Sri Lanka the first win of the white bull series Jeffrey don't get enough jeffes do we um yeah well boyc kind of Ruin we've had one leave that dujon there's two isn't there Jeff duon I think that's probably brings part one to an end doesn't it uh make sure you click like And subscribe on whatever platform you're listening or watching on um we'll come back and Max will tell you all about manscaped uh and if you need some Cricket equipment head to head to the show notes where you can find the link to series cricket and um shop to your hearts content Delight Hearts Delight which one is it content content what's the Delight phrase and that's not sure let's leave it enjoy part the light bye