the uh fallout from the ABC News Disney debate debacle continues to grow and more will grow throughout the weekend as Donald Trump announced yesterday he will not be doing any more debates and I think he's right in that choice but I'll talk about it this hour the debate that happened the Fallout with Rich Lowry who is the editorinchief of National Review and Andrew C McCarthy uh former Federal prosecutor at the southern district of New York author Colum and of course uh co- uh contributor with Rich Lowry on the McCarthy Report podcast Rich Lowry also host National reviews the editor podcast both of those podcasts will be mentioned in my Washington Post column on Monday as must listening to Rich good morning I don't know that we have Andy yet we're trying to find him I think maybe the alarm clock didn't go off how are you rich Lowry good how are you I'm good thank you for getting up very early this morning we keep trying various numbers from Randy so he'll eventually join us uh you heard my setup uh rich and I'll play a little bit tape yesterday the very best dissection of that debate that I've heard came from the ruthless podcast Josh Holmes has negotiated these before I've done five of these debates with the big networks uh they were GOP Presidential primary debates four with CNN one with NBC I know how they're run I know how they're scripted I know how that the preparation goes on 30 to 50 people top brass m and Davis don't Bear all of the weight for what happened but what I heard I listened to the McCarthy report everyone should I I have not listened to the editor's emergency podcast yet I will today your assessment uh I I know that Trump could have done better he ought have prepared more all that stuff what was your assessment of ABC's role I it doesn't look any better in in retrospect it's it's horrible you know and I've been looking back over the transcript kind of in the cold light a day a couple days afterwards I don't think Trump's performance is any better I think Harris is actually worse if if you read it on the page but the moderators are just just awful one thing I I didn't notice in real time towards the end there was a bit of a fact check it kind of in between a fact check and a question to Harris after Trump had said you know she she was sent over there to negotiate prior to the Ukraine war and look what happened the war happened anyway and I think it was David M said oh oh so so you're saying she negotiated with with Putin uh you know Madam vice president have you ever met Vladimir Putin and that's not what he said he didn't say he she met with Vladimir Putin he says that she was sent over there which she was she met with zalinsky right before the The Invasion so again if you're going to fact check you shouldn't fact check at all because it's too hard to do in real time but if you GNA do it you got to be correct one and you can't do it just for one side and that's what they did and I was talking to a friend who was at CNN prior to the CNN Trump Biden debate and and a a big wig from CNN came came over and was chitchatting and said just watch you just watch after this debate CNN will not be the story I guarantee you CNN will not be the story clearly that was a directive from above you're just moderators it's not about you you're not the candidate at the very least no one at ABC said that to these two and may have indeed said the opposite Now Rich you have been working around the clock because you've done the editor's podcast you've done the uh the McCarthy Report podcast you've been writing for National Review you have a job actually to be the editor and chief of National Review and you're back on the East Coast for some National Review thing so you've been traveling all over the place as you've talked with people is this going to change opinions of the debate because the general review I as I've said to Marth McCall Larry cudow on the air upon further review the call on the field has been reversed by me my call on Tuesday night was well Trump l the battle maybe he'll win the war uh because of the issues that he raised now I'm just thinking he may have won the debate because the the verdict is kind of a rolling verdict do you think that is happening I I think certainly among Republicans this is the first thing they say is they talk about the moderation and I was talking to a friend about this yesterday and he says Rich you know we're still talking about Candy Crowley a relatively minor intervention I shouldn't minor it was a pretty big intervention that foreign policy debate between Romney and and Obama and what else does anyone remember of that debate I mean this this will be remembered a very long time for Republicans it may be Hugh you know you've been involved in these negotiations and these debates after every bad One Republic we're never going back to the the same mainstream model everyone that's kind of the point of view everyone has at the moment I'm not it it's never stick before maybe it'll stick this time I kind of doubt it but that's that's the take among a a lot of Republicans I don't know whether that's enough to help Trump in the overall impression of who won this this debate because you also know how it works you know people say lost and and you ask people over time and it's mag the defeat is magnified uh by hearing all the pundits and commentators say it I'm not sure how much it it matters you know if you're still leading on the economy and the border and inflation not sure how it matters uh it matters very much but she clearly she cleared a kind of bar uh the other night uh she she did clear a bar uh the question is upon further review in fact let me play for you something I said to Larry cudow uh on Wednesday cut number 19 is your take on any of this well I I want to say Kudos on your riff Larry because the oldest cliche in news is also true first reports are usually wrong and the first reports last night are that you know Trump lost haris one over the course of the day I have been seeing three things emerge Trump was okay not his best but he did get in some Haymakers his closing statement was best and anytime you're focusing on migration you're winning conla Harris by contrast was at her best and it wasn't very good and then third and I think this matters a lot it was the worst presidential debate in modern history I do not believe even an independent or even a moderately Fair Democrat will conclude other than that was an ambush and as that settles in as people study what Alex just referred to the vice president did not answer one question nor did ABC which is owned by Disney asked one question about China not one question I was thinking of their theme parks they merchandising I thinking about the NBI I'm talking about China not one question about Iran they did not bring up our hostage who was executed along with five others in Israel on the 107 I am so amazed with the unprofessionalism and the the deeply disrespectful of America as Katie mentioned performance by ABC I think by the weekend Trump may have won this it's a it's a it's a moving River of opinion that gathers force and at this point yeah I wanted more I wanted Perfection but that was the best of vice president ever going to be she's not very good Rich you can't hurt my feelings am I wishcasting there or might that happen I I'm not sure that's going to happen with the general public among Republicans this this is clearly this process is is ongoing and and began during the debate it was one of the top takeaways anyone had it just obvious to everyone where these moderators were coming from and they they weren't upholding their professional obligation to be neutral interlocutors and kind of ask the question and andless unless the question wasn't answered there needed to be a followup to fade to fade back into the bush like the Homer Simpson meme but the follow-ups for K obviously weren't there the very first question are people better off than they were four years ago she didn't answer it she didn't come close to answering she didn't even try to answer it and and she got on to terrai by calling the the Trump tariffs you know attacks uh and and immediately Trump responded to that uh and unfortunately that sort of set the pace for what the whole night was like she was never challenged by the moderators and Trump didn't do enough to call her out or to call out the moderators in real time you some of the most effective debate performances yes in the primary contest U not in the general election have been calling out moner nuke ingr in South Carolina famously against our friend Juan Williams so I think this is something that that would have helped Trump to call out in real time I heard you mention that and I when Andy joins us when we find him and he he confirmed to me last night he was going to join us but we might have have his wrong number he might not have our number I'm going to stipulate that the former president ought to have called out the moderators the way that new did I believe you brought this up in 2012 new called out John King and it in fact began a new way of engaging with moderators did you mention that on on the MacArthur report yesterday was that you I I think it may may have been I may have said it Andy may have said it but that that was electric moment that won South Carolina for for nuk Engish um yeah but but TR Trump trump didn't do it