we have no agreement between the pack and the Mountain West for a 2025 schedule conference realignment and scheduling Agreements are always in the news so we're back on the big mountain well September 1st has come and it has gone Steve we've done several episodes about the pack and Mountain West scheduling agreement September 1st was the in which they both had to acknowledge uh written uh approval to extend this agreement for 2025 that did not happen so I do want to do a brief episode talking about that talking about maybe why the last one we did was giving the reasons why both parties maybe weren't really interested in doing this extension as is with the agreement so again let's talk about now that we know the agreement wasn't uh approved or the extension wasn't approved let's talk about that a little bit uh more um multiple reports have come out here recently basically saying the sides are too far apart in order to not just extend this agreement but have a new agreement as well so it's it's it's even going on okay the option wasn't extended okay that's gone is there going to be a new agreement the the the sources are saying like no there's not even going to be some sort of new agreement here because they're too far apart what does that mean um you know let's talk about that a little bit I think Oregon State and Washington State have been exploring everybody knows this have been exploring other options for quite a while um of course fans like to speculate with the the beavers and the Kruegers that there's going to be a big 12 agreement or an ACC agreement or they just want to build you know a bigger um P4 type of Base here with with their schedules um so we'll see I don't see a scheduling agreement like we saw with the Mountain West to be whereare the beaves and the krugs are headed with the big 12 and the ACC to to that sort of degree you know six different games for each schools and everything that that happened there that I don't see that happening with with these two power for uh conferences I think it's very very unlikely so to me that means they're either going to go alone so to speak and just have individual schools not alone I mean still be the pack but you know not have a direct agreement with another conference um and so we'll we'll see what happens there it's also possible uh that there's several Mountain West schools or other G5 conf or schools that that are willing to to partner with them as well as we reported last time Oregon state has it a bit easier because they do have seven games on their schedule right now if you include that Portland State game Washington state only has six games on the book so if they're both trying to get to 12 Oregon State needs five more games Washington State needs six more games and I took a look briefly at kind of who has some openings in 2025 there's not a lot a lot of schedules are already finished for 2025 but I'm going to throw some schools out there that that may have the uh you know there may be some opportunity here for for the bees and cougs Stanford has two new openings I've seen some recent reports that they may have some interest in wanting to play the beeses and the cougs here uh moving forward so that could be two games if Stanford wants to do both uh the pack two schools you could get Stanford on your schedule Northwestern uh out of the Big 10 has two openings that again that would be a decent ad I think for for both of those schools other games that other schools that have single games would be USC again a former pack School SMU that would be a solid ad Ruckers LSU and Tain who's a solid G5 school there's only a few Mountain West schools that have openings in 2025 right now that's Nevada and that's Wyoming and that's it so if they're looking to kind of do these onesie TWY type of thing that's much more difficult to do than having a full scheduling agreement with another conference so we'll see what happens there I know Scott Barnes a week or two ago came out and said they're working on it they they're expecting to have something possibly here in the next several weeks uh so maybe come you know sometime in September we might we might see something with them but clearly things have have completely soured here uh with the Mountain West for for whatever reason and I want to get into the Mountain West here uh in a minute but Steve anything you want to add there with with the pack schools no I I well you laid out a lot of reasons why the scheduling agreement may not uh be great for both sides right um you know there there's again you went through it in detail there you know there's reasons why the Mountain West may not do that want to do the scheduling agreement without some other guarantees and there were some reasons for the remaining two in the pack that might not want to do it um so I don't know that I'm necessarily very surprised especially with they put this date of of September 1st in the contract uh if we didn't have this date or if the date was farther back um but they put this date they made an inflection point here uh so I would say I'm not very surprised especially the way that you broke it down still looking forward to actual the games happening this year in the scheduling agreement um and you know and we'll see it gives gives the the you know those remaining two teams like you said gives them more time more opportunity to look those big 12 opportunity the ACC opportunities um I I have you know you mentioned Northwestern with the new travel in the Big 10 I have a hard time thinking that Northwestern is going to want to add another West Coast trip I think Ruckers was another team you mentioned and and those are just schools that are that have an opening yes have an opening which at this point you have to look at that uh now Stanford Stanford actually makes a ton of sense but it's a little ironic because they were before they like a we don't want to play these two we don't want to play these two teams so not a big surprise especially based on the last episode that you did on this where you broke down all those reasons well and and I'm not at all surprised that the option to extend uh that that they were too far apart or they weren't going to do that what is a bit surprising now is that they're saying they're too far apart for any sort of agreement moving forward and that can change we'll have to wait and see uh what occurs and that's that's what Scott barens kind of said he said to be determined uh and then he said it's a strong option and while it's a strong option the Mountain West Maybe like saying hey we're just not interested anymore so let's talk about that I've seen some sources say that ads in the Mountain West are actually against scheduling these games um and and that that could make sense because it while it does increase the strength of schedule and that's what Gloria narez has said over and over and over again and she's really banging that trub and to your point I'm anxious to see what that means for for 2024 but I think now that we're here and now that they only have seven games in conference you know you talk about how the big 10 has nine games in conference and yes there's more teams uh 18 teams versus 12 but you know seven games in conference really uh makes it more difficult to get a true conference champion and if if I'm UNLV and Fresno and Boise and I'm not playing these top schools so it's got to go to the computers to figure this out I'm not happy if I'm I'm an ad about that I want us to play the game so we get the correct two gam or the correct two teams into the Mountain West uh a championship game and that's not necessarily going to be what happens this year it didn't happen last year and it's only going to get worse potentially this year because it's only seven games so you know there and I'm not saying that's the only reason the ads are saying it but apparently they they've soured on this whole scheduling uh idea and yeah if it's a oneoff or two off you know Wyoming goes and plays them and they they've done that for a long time you know the beeses and the cruggs typically will play one or two Mountain West teams out of conference for you know that's been going on for quite a while but to have this type of agreement apparently they've really soured uh on that as the Mountain West ads and as I stated before I think this risk of poaching and I said this on on the last episode you know this risk of poaching and maybe this realignment is very real within the Mountain West and they're very concerned some of the schools very concerned that they could be the one two three schools left out of this so why would we do anything that you know potentially is moving us down the path of that again that's speculation on my part that's not what I'm hearing uh directly from anyone uh but I would think that that poaching penalty type of deal really you know kind of row its head back up again and they're like I just don't know if it's worth it I also think they probably are asking for more money the bees and the krugs have some money to play with I still see all this crazy stuff about this war chest and this money that they have there's no more war chest at the end of 25 they're going to use it all here in these first two years but some of that will be for their scheduling they're using some of it this year with the Mountain West are they able to spend maybe a little bit more to get some big 12 ACC schools like they're they're looking for maybe they are but if I'm the Mountain West I'm going you're going to pay me more too so you know when you see this they're too far apart I think there's a lot of things at play there um and I don't see the Mountain West viewing it as positively anymore now that they're kind of getting into it I think the games are going to be great to your point I'm anxious for him I think it's going to be good I think it's maybe wrecked a little Havoc within the Mountain West ads and I don't I'm reading between the lines what do you think so I I I would really I caution against there's a lot of sources that are quoting 80s I hate sources by the way I know I've used that several times I'm not a big fan of that there are there are reporters that are that are quoting ads maybe not even quoting but saying sources within athletic departments or or or they're they're if they're not naming ads they're just saying Mountain West ads sure here's the thing one thing I've learned in realignment ads generally have almost zero power when it comes so the decision making for reignment um Big 10 ads didn't want USC and UCLA Big 10 ad and they got them big 10 ads didn't want Oregon and Washington and have done nothing but and moan and complain about the scheduling and all of this big 10 ads don't want Florida State and Clemson and I have a feeling they're probably gonna you're going to get them in the Big 10 so ads don't want anything that's out of the norm because they they're the ones that actually have to and I think you can understand this in your line of work can they're the ones that actually have to make the things happen uh the logistics of all of this which everyone's just like oh yeah just schedule this game change this change that well that a lot goes into that behind the scenes and the ads are the ones that put in the work but at the end of the day it it really is the decision decision makers we've talked about this University presidents and Conference Commissioners that are are decision makers uh and they're usually looking more big picture financial terms and there's a lot of things that you brought up in that other episode financial terms you know you bring protecting from poaching all of those things um if if it's easier to get quotes from the ads because the ads want to Grumble to reporters this sucks we got to do this and we got to do that uh I'm really interested between now and let's say February uh the decision makers the university presidents the conference Commissioners both the remaining two and the Mountain West they're looking at bigger Longer pictures they're looking at the financial shape of their University uh not just this year and what they have to do this year and then over the next 12 months for scheduling they're looking 5 10 years down the road um and so I'm interested to see what kind of decisions they make and what goes into it obviously we know the mount the the remaining two they're looking they look at the Mountain West as a fallback plan we've talked about this and that's just kind of the nature of the Beast they would love to get into the Big 12 or the ACC maybe if they can come up with some kind of scheduling agreement they see that as a kind of a backdoor entry they would love to get a full invite um to me I still just don't see it I don't think we've seen any evidence that either the Big 12 or the ACCC wants that now we'll see what happens in you know there could be dominoes whenever there's realignment there could be dominoes we get to January and February some things could happen with Florida state which could cause some dominoes in the ACC which could cause some dominoes in the Big 12 we'll see um so I think it just seems like Mount West is looking the decision makers are looking for a little bit more protections I don't think I really don't see the presidents making decisions based on the difficulty of scheduling one year out I think they're looking more at what's our long-term financial situation how can we protect our conference and our University what is the best move longterm for the next five or 10 years and for a lot of the reasons you laid out that just didn't work out for their scheduling agreement I still have I I still think and I I probably will continue to think this for a while until we see something from the the Big 12 or the ACC but I still think at the end of the day the most likely scenario is either for the pack the remaining two to join the Mountain West or the Mountain West to go over to the pack or then to come some kind of a merger create a new conference whatever I I just think that is the most likely scenario and mostly because it just still continues to make sense long term and I just don't see and and I'm a beaver believer I love the beeses I love the cougs I think they've gotten totally screwed over but I don't see that many other paths for them I mean if if the big to me the big 12 is looking at can we they want a poach from the ACC they're not looking to add Washington State and Oregon State right now if they wanted them they could have them at any point Y uh we've seen nothing like that we've seen nothing from the ACC there continues to be the speculation that the ACC wants to add this West Coast Branch what has the other than adding you know Cal and Stanford who are two top level universities I mean highest level of universities they added those for survival purposes of the ACC other than that what have we seen that suggest they want to create a full West Coast and become a National Conference we haven't seen anything you've seen a lot of stuff on Twitter yes but from the decision makers I know had yeah yes we've seen nothing so uh anyways you like I said you did a great job of laying out I mean you you had it pegged of this probably wasn't going to happen and you laid out a whole bunch of different reasons why I just think it's more likely that it's more about the decision makers looking out for the best interest the fiduciary responsibilities and the best interest financially of their universities and their conferences uh but at the end of the day I think we'll still come back together at some point just might be a little messier than we thought yeah and I'll link that episode above and afterwards I'm sure probably most of these viewers have already seen that uh you can go back we did that last week I believe is when that one came out um and you know I'm just going to say this and this isn't meant to be harsh on the beaves and cougs but the control control the power if you will um and I use that word gently but is with the conferences you know the Big 12 doesn't have to do anything for the beavs and the cougs the ACC doesn't have to do anything the Mountain West doesn't have to do anything for the beavs and cougs unless it makes sense and that's kind of what you were getting at and that leaves unfortunately the beaves and the cougs with very little power and that's what uh president Schulz tried to extend over the last you know six to 12 months extend the fact that they still they still matter they were still in A5 they still had this and that and all of that has slowly been taken away from them and unfortunately they just don't have a lot of power that doesn't mean they don't end up in a very good situation and I don't know what that situation is and they will they'll move on they'll deal with it they'll they're still great schools and great great universities the fact of the matter is the power is not with the pack too and the funniest thing not the funniest thing but the ironic thing here what have you heard recently about a Pack 12 rebuild almost nothing I mean I think we've pretty much debunked that before that's it's I mean they are truly and we have said that from the very beginning they want to join another P4 conference they are not looking at a rebuild and even when you talk about these schedules this isn't about trying to rebuild the pack this is about trying to get into the P4 so I think again as time goes on this whole rebuild idea unless it's a full merger with the Mountain West that's that's a different scenario but this rebuild of pick people here and picking people there or schools here and there it's just it's just it's not going to happen they don't have the time they don't have the resources in order to do that and the control is not with the pack the control is with these other university or these other conferences and as Gloria navarez has said and I mentioned it on the episode you know when they interviewed her she's like we didn't lose any members like that was her and she said it at the media days like we're still the Mountain West we're still in control now she's very careful she wouldn't say say it that way but kind of what she means like we still have the power of our conference because we still have our membership so I'm not trying to be rude to the to the bees and cougs here at all I'm just trying to trying to be real about it right like did I say anything wrong in in that r no I I do like you and I have kind of gone back and forth on this whole idea of like power and control I I don't I I I think it's at the end of the day I think that part is kind of irrelevant I mean I see your point the thing is is they're running out of options right I guess I I and I when I said I didn't want it to be taken that way probably the option like the options are held within the conferences not so much within the the pack yeah and all along I think it all I still think the the the likely scenario is some kind of a merger but it's going to be because it makes the best sense for everybody makes the best sense for Mount West and for those remaining two um and it's not going to be a matter of like hey did we get leverage over you or power control uh so I don't think you said anything wrong I just just I and so I will say I think I can I let me just say something real quick I don't think it's leverage or power and I and I I shouldn't have used the word power leverage your power over them but at the same time they don't have to do anything they don't want to do right so I I whether that's leverage I don't know what you want to call that but it's just like yeah we don't have to do it so we're not going to do it right the status quo is fine status quo is fine yes whereas the the P2 or I mean the remaining two they need to find something um eventually I mean it's hard to see them going long-term independent those two programs it's really hard to see that um but I I also kind of don't I don't uh blame the presidents of those two universities for let let's wait a little longer and see what happens with this ACC stuff let's see what happens are their dominoes if they can get into a power four it makes sense for them sure but I at some point the music we all played musical chairs at some point the Music Stops and you got to find a chair you're going to be flat on your ass yep that's that's a perfect way to end it we're going to end it right there with that so hey we thank you guys for watching had to do a follow up on this since we now know that the option was not agreed to make sure you give this one a like subscribe if you like our content we follow everything Mountain West and we follow the beavers and the kougars and we will continue to do just that and I am picking all of the Mountain West and beavers and kougars games Wednesday evenings 8:30 Eastern 5:30 Pacific we'd love to have you join us on those live episodes with that we'll see you guys next time on the big mountain