um first of all who is the um well actually I do know who the um the donor is and uh what's the hooa about him getting a pass and I do take your point aan most people have no idea how this system works indeed I'm sure within the system itself an awful lot of people don't know how it works either but the point is of course he's not just a donor he's also the guide charged with actually raising funds for the party and so I think he does have a certain un premature within it but inevitably the right Towing newspapers are going to make Mischief with it and accuse the labor party of toryism and I don't actually think though it's going to resonate desperately with the public as distinct from Kama speech tomorrow which I think most certainly will um what do you make of sama saying things are going to get worse before they get better he's already going for a second term isn't he he most C is but I think he's doing a bit more than that I think he's two things one he's managing expectations and I can remember during the election campaign him saying look I can't just go to bed one night and dream up a couple of new prisons stuff takes time but the second point is I think he's also firing a warning shot across his own side you remember how many times um Rishi sunak was trying ever so hard to to Institute changes of one kind of one kind or another only to find that one section or another of his party biffed it on his behalf thank you very much and starmer is saying look I'm I'm putting up with no nonsense and the other point about all this is I mean his what he's saying is that that that everything is a bit more shambolic than than they had realized and I suspect that's probably true because no government wants to do things like raising taxes and cutting services yeah you see I I buy all that Peter totally get all that but then you look at things say postco or during Co and Beyond and supermarkets did Super well out of all of this utility companies have done super well the energy companies there are certain targets that he could have without any resistance without you know the public would say well fair enough you know Well Done K he could have attacked he could have raised money from but he but he has avoided that and instead we're hearing you know the the the certain pensioners losing this um Alliance of energy bill yes indeed I mean there will be a budget at the end of October it'll probably be a fairly Grizzly Affair I know that it's that it's one day before before KY fols night which is seems appropriate um and I suspect at that point there could well be all manner of of not only taxes raised on ordinary folk but also on businesses which as you rightly say am and I've had it a bit too easy for a bit too long you could see it com com then oh God yeah yeah and there's going to be more criticisms isn't there because we'll be raising taxes probably that's after giving the green light to the unions with their pay Rises yes I mean a government any government is in a bind with this sort of thing they're damned if they do and damned if they don't I mean you remember that the conservatives were faced with something approaching a general strike and first off the public response is this is Jolly inconvenient why can't these people behave themselves and then before you know where you are people are say well look you're the government you sort it anyway let's talk some politics L's first major speech since walking into dining Street this is going to happen tomorrow Kier Stormer is set to say labor needs 10 years to rebuild the country because the conservatives left the whole place in ruin and Rubble well it comes as the conservatives asked the prime minister to reveal who gave a Downing Street pass to a millionaire who donated half a million pounds to the labor party during the election campaign let's get the views down complet little commentator John Oxley on all of this one why is it such a big fuss John that uh Lord wahed ali um got this pass he he raises funds for the labor party he wanted access to a few meetings and dining Street and whatever it is shouldn't that come with the rule that he has well it tends to be for these sort of people that you don't get a full um Downing Street pass that tends to be reserved for people who are full-time work workers in number 10 and otherwise if you're just going in on an ad hoc basis you know it's a bit unglamorous someone has to sign you in and walk with you but I think really what this is is you know the conservatives are getting used to opposition they're trying to see what they can throw at the labor party and at the moment they're latching on whatever they can and they're trying to stir up a bit of a scandal here so really you know this is someone who's been very involved in politics it's someone who's a member of the House of Lords it is not someone who's sort of you just sort of off the street or in any way inappropriate it seems like really a lot of fuss over not very much looking ahead to his speech tomorrow we're expecting the prime minister to talk about this fiscal black hole which we've heard so much about he's also going to talk about societal black hole what do you think he means by that I think this is probably going to pick up off the recent disturbances and the riots in particular and this idea that sort of downwind of these economic problems there's more of a a sort of tensions across Society whether that's you know the way we see things playing out in these um you communities where there was violence but I also imagine he's going to talk about things like inequality as well and sort of widen that so but really sort of looking at the consequences of or what he sees as the consequences of public sector cuts and how that has changed you know how we interact with each other how we all interact with society and I think you know there's going to be you know perhaps a sort of more moral mission to try and repair that as much as there is around the nation's finances he's talking about the rubble and ruin left by the Tories we've heard lots of that haven't we in the past few weeks how long do you think this narrative will play out for the labor party I mean you sort of saw it with the conservatives and with um you know starting from austerity they played it out as long as they possibly could um but really you what starm is coming in is is is setting the comp country up for what are going to be some quite difficult decisions whether that's on tax whether that's on spending um but at a certain point you know the country are going to expect things to change and you know maybe this will last for a year or two where the government can really say look we're working on it but after that and you know the next election comes around quicker than you think people are going to want to see some tangible changes but John what are they preparing us for I mean I think not many people are going to disagree with saying the place has gone to rack and ruin it's going to take 10 years to rebuild but there are ways he could rebuild which he's not doing he could hit the super rich he could hit the supermarkets the utility companies whatever with with oneoff taxes and whatever but he's more or less sort of laying the ground for you watching at home um it's eventually going to come your way even though we said in the election it's not I think the problem you know starma had during the election is he didn't want to scare anyone on and there's economic effects for if you start scaring big businesses but what they have said is you know they're not going to increase vat they might play around with it at the edges on in terms of what it's applied to they're not going to increase income tax but maybe some of those taxes like capital gains which generally quite a small amount of people pay capital gains taxes a few per of people ever paid in their lifetime so that does go after the rich a bit but ultimately you know the problem governments have is the taxes that raise the most money are the ones that everyone pays because that's where you know even though it's spread out that's where the bulk of the money is so it's quite hard to do something that doesn't ultimately flow down in some way to Ordinary People John Oxley appreciate it thank you very much indeed