Emil Amok's Takeout #752: Debate Fact Check/Harvard numbers/Prof. Dan

and you found us hi everyone it's am it's Emil GMO Emil I'm to you thank you for catching us here on my my takeout my Emil amuk takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes and all things can considerable uh this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well H and with ishmail I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still factchecking we're going to try to fact check Washington posted a big fact check trying to say who lied trying to see what was said because you know it's hard to to really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he won in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse than being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lomer yesterday with ishmail ishma I hadn't heard of Lisa L but Lisa ler was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday KLA Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's going to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not debating because you know just like the prize fighters who ask for a rematch they're the losers and he's not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so any that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the Harvard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released them we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high some were were down you know affirmative action uh here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if your numbers are the same it means man affirmative action was doing its job it was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and my take it's on the alde blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed it they bought it they played to their self-interest and in doing so they got rid of one of the best tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down to every form of admissions or every form of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to achieve all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they play to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrifice all that for their for their just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discriminated no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect scores and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are they comp oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone and we're left with this color blind BS where we don't know where we are the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzales in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well so here he is Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend Professor College of ethnic studies San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the asian-americans who were duped and put out there as the perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down a system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now are in conclusive well uh yeah the all they did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stayed the same at 37 yeah yeah but and but we only constitute we constitute less than 6% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admission that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher it would be in the 40s 403 depends on who yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's where that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of equity to Prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians who were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is just as bad because of the the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because say exactly because if there was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah and and uh that's interesting right that it's that it's steady I I I've always question why people are so uh interested right at at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say uh highly a culturist and assimilationist value yeah it it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to Harvard because ishmail Reed said the same thing he like what's the big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is Harvard is the Louis vuon of schools and and and and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're into the the the designer education but you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the gu from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's uh the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejected and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race-based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents were saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have new one allegedly color blind well that's the thing how how how colorblind and you know one of the things about you can't tell uh what's happening uh because whites have the option not to say their race or people have their option not to say their race so and Harvard didn't even release the official whites you know number how many whites in the population that's right yeah so they only listed yeah yeah so you can't can't really tell Asians others yeah Asians were 37 blacks were at eight were were were at 18 now 14 18 and that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many question questions that people really aren't uh inclined to deal with that have a lot more to do with the you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any school uh elite school because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard Bearer that you know that that was used that say Hey look we'll use because if we go to if you if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding everyone that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess uh you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it rep it epitomizes uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness okay so but then then the question is as practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cache when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivy league Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a masters and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there was a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then go on for the Masters and so hey look even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to Accidental yeah and then he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he would he still was at Princeton right for for the under oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shopping well certain members of the Marcos family would be very disappointed in your attitude about oh that's right they they like princing well I'm just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PHD that's right but those of us who went to the college we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is the we we are that is the cradle that is the Cradle of the well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no college at all right well yeah it makes it makes the Mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago uh I wasn't able to be on last week but uh um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States um in the uh in the Republican party right of South Asian descent yeah two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she's still has a significant you know uh cach you're talking about Nikki Haley you're talking about Nikki Haley yeah yeah Nicki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh lobbying business now well she for now for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's where that's where we are and I and I know a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and uh thought that the cache would get them in and around around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no and they were really disappointed you know some of them were in business related areas or were in you know business um and and I and I told them when they left the city uh the only thing that's worthwhile in business is is only two things and one of them is getting a masters in bus bad right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if not an accounting major in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you know I don't care if you went to Harvard yeah well here's they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was uh racial uh discrimination um you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher ad level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfish re or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own meritocracy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare handout it's just equity and fairness you know an equal Shake as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's okay if we're going to go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my class is can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job or um at a an institution uh on the west coast which has a substantial uh Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimination and therefore uh find uh a need to at least study the law and their rights you know and and assert them at the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the emplo you know at HR right at the resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's already happened there there institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top asian-americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who studied this thing they they warned the selfish Asians to say we don't you know we we we have straight A's we can get in we we we can rely on meritocracy we need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not highed not you know post post post you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asian-americans are about the same EX actly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asians with 4.0 getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess we can't claim discrimination because there's no race I guess by being against affir affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is yeah is done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so you were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that the race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they're they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asians you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would rely on my my knowledge because good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with four you know 4.0 and you know going on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's that and this is this is why in my column on the ALF blog a df.org Blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the foresight to understand that you were being used and this is going to backfire and it's gonna you're gonna Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything has come down for everyone not yeah it's it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color they're in favor of others okay and and the implication is their discrimination against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting white racist superiority oh yeah oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the bone because they you you just said they're adopting racist views about they're they're adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they're adopting this is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test score Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about it's they want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimacy that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments uh some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familial uh Legacy yes exactly familiar Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football what I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of affirmative action but the T was would they extend that Legacy to my son or daugh you know my my right right right and they could have to say hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law school or the business school but we'll bring him into the college uh they didn't they rejected and my my my son went to UC UC Berkeley well wow what a sad story yeah exactly see that's the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah hammer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get into Harvard so a lot of them got into Stanford or or they got into UC oh tough right yeah I I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right we are not going to look favorably on the asian-americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what are and they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is we don't know that yeah we don't know we because because the the percentage of the the class for the blacks the Asians and the Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and he successful use of the Asians he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white representation right that failed that failed miserably yeah you know I just don't know to what extent it failed right yeah proven is that they're people of color who qualify yeah you know so yeah that was always a fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than they thought [Laughter] affirmative action for whites is not easy not an easy thing well people don't even think about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank yeah right and and and other obviously you know Hank Shen you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint in the United States I said well let me check it out and so i' go and look at see what their staff looked like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an NBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as tokens you know well that's that's it you know 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we Dan where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know uh I was getting A's in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh well so where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded and taking the word equity and substituting it for the nword that's essentially what they've done the nword yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an end oh I see I see and yet see this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deep sixed everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for everybody and and there there were Asian-American civil rights groups saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for every yep for being selfish all right let's uh let's move on let's swish [Music] out got my Swisher working Dan let let's go back to topic topic a is still oh the debate still the debate all right so what we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column alde blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund alde df.org blog and I said I I was hesitant to say that K La Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that kamla Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she wasn't as good as I'd hop she was on some specific things she relied too much on I'm I'm I'm get get I'm gonna give small businesses $50,000 I'm she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I didn't agree I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not Total Domination but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did did she was it Total Domination was it a but well it may be a shock to you but I have complete agreement with you oh well yeah see I'm a moderate I'm a modate next next topic I I uh I'm in complete agreement with you I was somewhat disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of a couple of opportunities in particular and U one of them was uh you know you hate to go toe-to-toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the Border Zar stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and uh you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct she could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but there you go but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of hers that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartisan deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair someone I thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump will will you comment on the border the Border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that sort of gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do you that that's terrible though right I mean Terri people go it's terrible that that that the general public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but but D it's a it's about the slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the Border issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and cats which is a slur which is it is it is intentionally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist and it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yes I I would say I would say definitely I was but but and I thought you goingon to say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs dog me because first of all it was cat cat cat me which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in the 8S and they ate lion so I guess technically I had cat uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the purported well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of other Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians we yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know are you gonna eat that just it was standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh you know eat eat everything before you die was a title for one of his books yeah well but you know D this is the standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and and you know Asians should have felt that right to the core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic it's racist but it works among some whites today still uh some some what you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know it would resonate with some but not all do you think all no I don't I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of racist Notions right some level so it's a question of degree and and and most people would readily deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that that I might at least that you know yeah at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they oh just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you gotta cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it God it's still happen still happening today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and it's already been it's been debunked but geese the Gees they had I saw a picture online though a guy caring a goose but but you know they had this this one woman Laura lumer oh man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when margerie Taylor Green in no way in no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than margorie Taylor green I mean really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lumer up to this to make margerie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else they say look I I think that's where this is going when by comparison Yeah by comparison she she might that but that might not be good for for her real election I mean she's in she's in the lower house man she got to run every two years so she's up yeah but I now and that might that might lessen her cache man her value in her in her home constitu I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lomer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote Marg all right you're realizing we're starting to sound real Radical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate right wing vote moderate right no no no I liked your earlier statement better Hey look just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas Tribune festival and it is you know predictably a kind of a sort of a moderate left kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro was there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump and he's the guy you know who you know Carl Ro Le Atwater all those people put Bush Bush's brain yeah put Bush's put Bush on the on the map in terms of you know how he he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah well Dad was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of white yeah right so you know that that kind of moderates him a little bit but you know well he also well he was critical people um uh endangering the lives of Muslims after 911 you know there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at U the tribing Fest and the thing about it is that they were all kamla Hara supporters they were all never trumpers Lincoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're a Filipino yeah and we talked a little you have a major interest in the area around the former uh Naval Base yeah but but I just you know I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans Republic you were saying that they were all never trumpers and yeah Pro Harris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has gotten a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a way [Laughter] oh that hurt well I I'm just saying not not in terms of I mean you know he's the new he's the new that you really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you know he's uh he's uh not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist and misogynist as hell yeah and you know what more I mean I'll say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding mental health she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that she either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can agree with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what does it say about American politics now you see after the debate more Republicans join I think there's going to be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterms after after November you know like in in uh 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve a significant amount of what they State their agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system um and and put more judges out there that's what they need to do uh you know the the Republicans blame the Democrats for all of the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah right we don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they want to they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right post Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything the government does is all socialist and they're saying that again they you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell marks uh has been saying he go she's a Marxist you know a grouo Marxist or so no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government um the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know except existing comp compes who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh they're targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them Greener I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things are ridiculously complex so I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes to your point about government is so complex getting grants from the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive and so that people can really access things like if someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumers anyway uh you're you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad well Wildfire uh season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who's burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that may be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh Looney Bin's Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida and now Senator you know denying that there's any kind of climate change and all the rest of that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is going to flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for him okay so they're going to have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh Inland mid mid Peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're gonna pay a price and this is the thing about when they the people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they dare me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I celled a couple of friends of mine that owned property uh around the Russian River uh you know you got it I don't know I don't know you should be holding on to that this is the thing that I you know community outreach um they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfor especially local press which is really what matters yeah local press ethnic press and what scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this is this is the thing about KLA Harris and the the debate on U on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and you said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or mortgage rates or who's gonna you know make my gas gas prices lower who's going to lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's a liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers in hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I don't know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure sure I I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows that the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when yeah coming up I think uh yeah yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he wouldn't go for another debate yeah well he's saying he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Waltz campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like uh Kamala porn or something you know Oh you mean like uh you sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you know she says that you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a star they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I think on the right on his the Trumper side I think he was helped by it well I think a lot of guys especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're gonna vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about man of color and KLA Harris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump uh in larger numbers than people would think well what's going I am not I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an African-American psychologist okay PhD Psychology uh longterm uh uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and uh she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something you know so anyway uh Laura headed is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross loss and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and and her students uh were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and uh you know you you lose track after a few years who specifically was in your class but but uh Linda was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic mentor to the these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who's a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more you know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in African studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hipop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when uh women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of African-American men and a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean that they're not talking about her policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman hey I've had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buying into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know I mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said what the hell what the hell difference is that make what difference did it make that Obama has was half white actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said at Naj well sometime is she black I just want you know yeah you know it the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the stations but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a cut it was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their panel uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had an African-American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call ay you know he was you know moderately lightskinned and um and uh and younger maybe even only in his you know like right out of college um and he they both were trumpers and they both and they both said well you know I haven't heard enough from either of them and then they were asked Point Blank right well are you gonna is there any chance that you would vote for for how you know for Kamala and one guy said no outright I'm a conservative you know I wouldn't do that and the other one said uh no I'm definitely leaning Trump so wow had no effect on these two guys and they were within the age range that we're talking about right now yeah I just don't I just don't see that I you know it's men of color you see it or you can't believe it I well I just I have a hard time believing that okay that's happening but also look it's men of color plus white women because I see the the focus groups that have white women saying oh well she sounds nice she sounds smart but I I think Donald Trump has far more experience oh yeah experience with felonies I mean I a lot of things I don't get all right you know what that is okay underlying all of this stuff at the root of everything is race oh yeah of course the root of everything is race and so not yeah and then and then when you move over to men of color and trying to explain their problem okay underlying everything is misogyny and it it saddens me to be able to say that but I have to say that based on my own experience observation and also in terms of academic data yeah well racism and misogyny whenever you have an Asian-American African-American woman for the first time running for president you will have aspects of racism and misogyny and it's too bad it's too bad is you're having a difficult time accepting that uh men of color particularly Latinos and African-Americans um subscribe to those values I I do have a hard time because it's it's against their self-interest well but there's people who vote against their self-interest all the time there's people who drive against their self-interest there's people who make left turns left turns in front of me with no signal right yeah look we just talked we just talked about affirmative action too so yeah people people work yeah but affirmative action is a little deeper and and and the people all when they make erroneous decisions like that okay anti-affirmative action it's because they're accepting the shallow definition of the circumstances they're not they're not ex they're not seeing all of the permutations all of the facts that are involved in that process you know the general perspective on affirmative action has always been that people are using race and race only to their advantage and that's the only reason that people are getting voted in or chosen for admissions or hired is because of race and and and that is not a qualifying Factor they feel that the persons are not qualified otherwise that they would never have been chosen if they were not uh uh a person of color or if they were not a person of color or a woman okay may lgbtqq so right that's what they do so yeah you you except for those categories of Suspicion right that's what they're called in the court is a suspect category if you're not in one of those suspect categories right uh then then people don't assume that you're incompetent but if you are from one of those suspect categories and you have a freaking job right that that you know they'll say well you know they got that job because uh you they got well looki we saw an extremely competent woman Asian-American African-American woman troun a white former president she is a Dei hire in all its full blown Glory she was better than a white man that that's what we can say that's what we can say she performed better than that particular white man I would hate to hold all white men to that standard well you know and the fact is Donald Trump is there because he has benefited from a kind of white privilege and white affirmative action whites wanted him to carry their mantle you know you wanted him as their standard Bearer and look where it's getting them I think in the end it's going to be the wrong choice for a guy to be president a second time around so yeah okay yeah but if he if he is elected and he gets that Second Time Around uh we will all be visited by by the we will all be vulnerable to that comes from that well I think people better pay attention because uh you know Donald Trump If he if he wins I don't think he'll have any qualms or any hesitation to do all the things that he says he wants to do you know the dictatorship on day one yeah when's doing his rally you speeches yeah I don't have any I I I think so too and it's going to be interesting I mean if he wins I'd be really interested in seeing how the people who thought they could control him the first time around right no they're not there they he's talking to Lura lomer he's the people the people trying to help him out aren't there hey look in the time remaining let's look at some of the facts that the key facts and the on the economic front people thinking about inflation he said a lot of things about uh inflation and the tariffs first the tariffs yeah tariffs tariffs are not paid for by a foreign company tariffs are paid for by the consumer timately ultimately the consumer it's it's paid for actually by the Importer which and the costs are passed on to the consumer Trump may deny it's a sales tax but those costs are going to be passed on to the consumer and the they already are they already are we already are suffering the consequences of that one of them is that when it comes to electric cars the the better electric cars are are being made right now in in in not only South Korea and Japan but also in China right China big time and even India is starting to get into the act and there are tariffs against all of them because they they are able to sell here much more cheaply than American made electric cars and they're much more dependable they right people just need to know that the way tariffs Works work Donald Trump doesn't understand tariffs he doesn't understand tariffs when he says that he's gonna make China pay I think he does I think he does I think he does and I think he's just willing to lie his ass off I mean I think he you know that is so simplistic it is so stupid right and he keeps bragging about Wharton Wharton Wharton you know I went to business school Wharton Wharton Wharton hey one of the first things you learn is about tariffs yeah and no one at Wharton says that uh there's a professor Warden said I don't know anyone here at Warden who backs Donald Trump so there it is yeah so all right now he also said he said Donald Trump said I had no I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation I had no inflation virtually virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation they the Biden Harris had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worse period of time and and the Washington Post fact checked and said Biden did not have the highest inflation in US history yeah inflation spiked to 9% mid 2022 yeah but it was as high as 13.3% in 1979 right and oh actually 13.3% yeah in 1979 12.5% in 1980 and it was 18.1% in 1946 and so he's was because the war ended the war stopped right you know production production stopped uh unemployment skyrocketed right all the rest of that so yeah uh okay so there that is um also one of the yeah well iay from let's do some more of the fact check couple more so the the two the two key ones are uh the tariffs and inflation because people are you know they're bothered by inflation at inflation which right now currently is at 2.5% and we're probably going to get uh some kind of uh help from the FED when they lower rates when they lower interest rates and that's going to lower rates on credit cards and car interest yeah but I I think they're only going to move by a quarter this time I was hoping for half half a point but I think they're only going to move by about a quarter It's Not Gon be the big one but it's it's going to help you know inflation all right here's here's another thing Trump said he said we have we have millions of people pouring into our country from prisons and jails from mental inss and insane asylums I mean where does he get that right I mean this is another xenophobia the same place he got his poll polling statistics yeah this is anti-immigrant uh the the post called the poppycock there is no way that they're coming out of any of those places and the number uh the number let's see uh a research associate for institute for crime and Justice policy research in Britain says the number let's see says in 2013 10.2 million people were in prison globally and that had grown to 1077 say where were this it says uh so people basically the Bigg prison population is the US prison population right right but most people disagree with what Trump said that they're coming out of you know jails and asylums okay now let's see I I guess you know those are the big things people should go to I mean we we've debunked the the dog and cat Springfield Ohio story that was debunked well before he even repeated them people are still people are still repeating it and they're still looking for pictures and you know they're doing you know the um I don't know they they didn't even get into education or any of that stuff oh they didn't get in education and there was only one line where they got into lgbtq issues when they talked about some guy going into a bathroom and getting an operation which is like in the bathroom yeah yeah was that surgeon in this what yeah there's just a lot of baloney there I can't see anyone voting for Trump but you know uh we're dealing with the United States so um it's going to be close it's going to be a close uh election well that's what that's the scary part and that's the part that I always tell people who get engage in conversations with me including my neighbors I said you know I you know even if Trump loses you know he's not gonna go away unless he leaves the country because he doesn't want to go to jail you know but he well that's gonna be it yeah but but but his people won't go away they're going to be here and when you see close to 50% of all of the voters in the United States uh willing to support a guy like that they're not going to go away that their their values and the things that that uh uh motivate them to vote for people like this are are clearly indications of how they think yeah and and and they're going to be there and they always have been there that's what I keep trying to tell my students yeah look at the history if you look at the history that element of of racist nationalism has always been there and Trump just gave him a reason to come out unfortunately and and this is the bad thing because when I was at that uh that this thing in Texas I I don't think I ever met so many Republicans that I liked that was a in in in my experience there are so many nice Republicans I said GE I hope this is a trend I hope this is a trend because we're talking to each other and maybe we can come up with policy that makes sense I hope if if Harris wins there is that sense because people realize she's not some she's not comrade kamla she's not a Marxist she is a Centrist and we have a shot at creating a government that can work for everyone well that was that was the knock that she took from progressives and and liberals oh yeah yeah she was she they saw her as a right winger just by being a DA yeah know you know and I know that's the case there's a lot of people on the the left and the extreme left who look at KLA Harrison and say oh no thank you oh no thank you and and you know and people in the extreme right who say oh no thank you oh no thank you and really it's it's the people in the middle who say yeah you know K she deserves a shot sh she she can do it but let's see how close Hey listen Dan uh thanks for being with me uh talking about this thanks for having me thanks for having me it's pleasure being back yeah and we'll we'll talk again soon uh I I I don't know what's going to happen that we'll follow the campaign we'll follow I mean North Carolina looks like they're they're moving toward KLA uh you got Wisconsin I guess Pennsylvania will still be very critical um Nevada Nevada's and Michigan look like they're moving in her Direction definitely but but you know it's just polls yeah well we'll see more Nevada I I'm with you I think Nevada and Arizona are going to really be significant well if if you if you need p and someone there someone's going to need pad they're GNA they're going to need it all but I think what with the debate if any I mean I I said this after I saw her speak at the DNC that if anyone had any doubts but this was like 67 million people watching this and all people not just Democrats it was Republicans too if they saw this they know now that KLA Harris is more than capable more than ified and what scared me a little bit over the last three years is how everyone had such a jaundice view of KLA Harris all the the the you know the mainstream press when when there was a big take out in one of the papers the New York Times Washington Post you name it they would always approach the profile as if ah we don't know about this Comm ER oh there's something something wrong I never I I had some my issues with her but I was not as skeptical as the Washington press Corps and well your issues were real issues you know in other words there were things that she did that that you either found uh contributed to a more just Society or that you found uh were likely to cause a greater amount of Injustice that you know that's when you're looking at at a DA or an attorney general that's generally what you're looking at right yeah and so your criticisms of her were legitimate criticisms just as my points uh of reminders to you that she did some good things about youth uh uh uh you know you she wasn't quite an advocate but she definitely started up programs um that were more likely to uh keep youth away from uh adult prisons and more likely instead to give them Alternatives right to to criminal well here's the thing that you learned about people's past you know they're not perfect right they might might go this way on one issue and the other way and another issue that's right in the end uh she's running today against Donald Trump and compared to Donald Trump uh KL Harris looks like uh like she's Heaven Sent right compared to Donald's Donald Trump and I I think people are gonna have to make up their own minds uh and not rely on Taylor Swift unfortunately but yeah what can I say and not rely on uh Beyonce or Jay-Z or I know wuang you have you know I discovered wuang Clan recently yeah you know you know cool you know D wuang Clan Ain't Nothing To with that's nothing with they're my favorite Asian-American rap group I I know they're not I they're from Brooklyn they're from qu yeah I know I know all right Dan hey thanks uh stick around we'll talk uh there but there he goes Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend College of Ethics studies Asian-American studies San Francisco State University far more radical than I am which is why I like to bring him in you know usually on Fridays so I can tell if my my barometer is still working yeah I'm more to the center a little more to the center hey check out my columns on the alff blog a df.org Blog you know I'm I'm moving the column the column's going to go somewhere else here here if you want to play this game with me should where should I move it to substack or move it to patreon uh just go to your the form here just or go to am.com and say Emil you should go here here or you should just shut up no one cares about you or you know just tell me because uh I won't be at alde um for for much longer but let me know let me know you can cat my columns there now my back columns at AAL df.org blog and um let's see what else are we doing oh you know I have discovered something I have discovered CED intentional laughter and it's helped me a lot just laughing on purpose not because I said something funny like you know Dan was laughing um you know before because I had I was doing my trump my trump impression this is laughter non dependent on a trump impression non- dependent on anything it's just I call it intentional laughter and it's helped it's helped and check out I'll do some things probably in a week I'll start my intentional after things here on this show I I still do some meditation because that's helped me helped me a lot helped me a lot calm down about everything that's come down the pike you know my Yogi saying hey stop watching the news you want to feel happy stop watching the news but these news meditations have also helped me so anyway meditation has helped news meditation story meditation loving kindness sending it out to you out there and then CU it comes back twofold three-fold four-fold and so as I wish for me I wish for you may you be safe may you be happy may you be healthy and may you live with ease Emil GMO here catch us on YouTube at Amil amuk One X Amil amuk FB Facebook at Emil goo. Media or my name Emil garmo have a great weekend till next time Mahal and you found us hi everyone it's ail it's Emil GMO Emil I'm up to you thank you for catching us here on my my takeout my Emil amuk takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes and all things considerable uh this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well uh and with ishmail I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still factchecking we're going to try to fact check Washington Post did a big fact check trying to say who lied trying to see what was said because you know it's hard to to it really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he won in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse than being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lumer yesterday with ishmail ishma I hadn't heard of Lisa L but Lisa lumer was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday KLA Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's going to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not debating because you know just like the prize fighters who ask for a rematch they're the losers and he's not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the Harvard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released them we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high some were were down you know affirmative action uh here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I see it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if your numbers are the same it means means man affirmative action was doing its job it was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and my take it's on the alde blog the Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed it they bought it they played to their self-interest and in doing so they got rid of one of the best tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down to every form of admissions or every form of of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to achieve all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they play to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrifice all that for their for their just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discriminating no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect scores and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are they comp oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone and we're left with this colorblind BS where we don't know where we are the the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzalez in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well [Music] so here he is Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend Professor College of ethnic studies San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the asian-americans who were duped and put out there as the perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down a system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now are inconclusive well uh yeah the all they did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stayed the same at 37 yeah yeah but and but we only constitute we constitute less than 6% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admissions that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher it would be in the 40s 43 depends on who yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's what I that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of equity to prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians who were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is just as bad because the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because say exactly because if was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah and and uh that's interesting right that it's that it's steady I I I've always questioned why people are so uh interested right at at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say uh highly a culturation and assimilationist value yeah it it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to Harvard because ishmail Reed said the same thing it's like what's a big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is Harvard is the Louis Vuitton of schools and and and and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're into the the the designer education but you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the guy from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's uh the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejected and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race-based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents were saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have a new one allegedly color blind well that's the thing how how how colorblind and you know one of the things about you can't tell uh what's happening uh because whites have the option not to say their race or people have their option not to say their race so and Harvard didn't even release the official whites you know number how many whites in the population that's right yeah so they only listed yeah yeah so you can't you can't really tell Asians others yeah Asians were 37 blacks are at eight we're we're we're at 18 now 14 18 and that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many questions that people really aren't uh inclined to deal with that have a lot more to do with you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any school uh elite school because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard Bearer that you know that that was used that say Hey look we'll use har because if we go to if you if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding everyone that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess yes uh you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it it epitomizes uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness okay so but then then the question is as a practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among the those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cache when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivy league Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a masters and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there was a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then uh go on for the Masters and so hey look even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to Accidental yeah and then he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he he still was at Princeton right for for the under oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shopping well certain members of the Marcos family would be very disappointed in your attitud about oh that's right they they like princ well I'm just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PHD that's right but those of us who went to the college we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is the we we are that is the cradle that is the Cradle of well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no college at all right well yeah it makes it makes the Mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago uh I wasn't able to be on last week but um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States um in the uh in the Republican party right of South Asian descent yeah uh two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she still has a significant you know uh cach you're talking about Nikki Haley you're talking about Nikki Haley yeah yeah Niki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh lobbying business now well she's for now for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's where that's where we are and I and I know a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and uh thought that the cachet would get them in and around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no and they were really disappointed you know so of them were in business related areas or were in you know business um and and I and I told them when they left the city uh the only thing that's worthwhile in business is is only two things and one of them is getting a masters in Biz at bad right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if you're not an accounting major in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you know I don't care if you went to Harvard yeah well here they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was uh racial uh discrimination um you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher ad level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfish re or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own meritocracy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare handout it's just equity and fairness you know an equal Shake as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's okay if we're going to go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my class is can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job or um at a an institution uh on the west coast which has a substantial Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimination and therefore uh find uh a need to at least study the law and their rights you know and and assert them uh the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the emplo you know at HR right at the human resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's already happened there there are already institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top asian-americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who studied this thing they they warned the selfish Asians to say we don't you know we we we have straight A's we can get in we we we can rely on meritocracy we don't need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not higher ed not you know post post uh post you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asian-americans are about the same exactly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asians with 4.0 getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess they can't claim discrimination because there's no race I guess by being against affir affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is yeah is done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that uh race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of the them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they're they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asians you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would on my my knowledge because good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with a four you know 4.0 and you know going on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not and this is this is why in my column on the ALF blog a df.org Blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the foresight to understand that you are being used and this is going to backfire and it's going to You're Gonna Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything has come down for everyone not yeah it's it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color they're in favor of others okay and and the implication is their discrimination against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting white racist superiority oh yeah oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the bone because they you you just said they're adopting racist views about they're they're adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they're adopting this is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test score Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about it's they want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimacy that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments uh some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familial uh Legacy yes exactly familial Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football what I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of affirmative action but the T was would they extend that Legacy to my son or daugh you know my my right right and they could have to say hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law school or the business school but we'll bring him into the college uh they didn't they rejected my my my son went to UC UC Berkeley well wow what a sad story yeah exactly see that's the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah Hammer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get into Harvard so a lot of them got into Stanford or or they got into UC see oh tough right yeah I I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right we are not going to look favorably on the asian-americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what are and they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is we don't know that yeah we don't know because because the the percentage of the class for the blacks the Asians and the Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and he successful use of the Asians he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white representation right that fa faed that failed miserably yeah you know I just don't know to what extent it failed right yeah proven is that they're people of color who qualify yeah you know so yeah that was always a fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than they thought affirmative action for whites is not easy not an easy thing well people don't even think of about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank yeah right and and and other obviously you know Hank Shen you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint in the United States I said well let me check it out and so i' go and look at see what their staff looked like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an MBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as tokens you know well that's that's it you 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we Dan where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know uh I was getting A's in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh well so where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded taking the word equity and substituting it for the n-word that's essentially what they've done the nword yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an end oh I see I see and yet see this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deep sixed everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for every body and and there there were Asian-American civil rights groups saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for everyone yep for being selfish all right let's uh let's move on let's swish [Music] out got my Swisher working Dan let let's go back to top topic a is still oh the debate still the debate all right so what debate we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column alde blog Asian-American legal defense and education F Al def df.org blog and I said I I was hesitant to say that KLA Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that KLA Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she was n as good as I'd hop she was on some specific things she relied too much on I'm I'm I'm G get I'm gonna give small businesses $50,000 I mean she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I didn't agree I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not Total Domination but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did you did she was it Total Domination was it a well it may be a shock to you but I have complete agreement with you oh well yeah see I'm I'm a moderate I'm a moderate next next topic I I uh I'm complete agreement with you I was somewhat disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of a couple of opportunities in particular and um one of them was uh you know you hate to go toe-to-toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the Border Zar stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and uh you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct she could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but there you go exactly but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartisan deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair someone thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump what will you comment on the border the Border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that's sort of a gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do you that that's terrible though right I mean terrible go it's terrible that that that the general public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but but D it's a it's about the slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the Border issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and cats which is a slur which is it is it is intentionally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist and it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yes I I would say I would say definitely I was but but and I thought you were gonna say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs dog me because first of all it was cat cat cat me which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in and they ate lion so I guess technically I had CAD uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the puror well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of other Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians who yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know are you gonna eat that you just it was a standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh you know eat eat everything before you die was title from one of his books yeah well but you know D this is the standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and you know Asians should have felt that right to the core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic IC it's racist but it works amongst some whites today still uh some some well you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know it would resonate with some but not all do you think all no I know I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of race Notions right some level it's so it's a question of degree and and and most people would readily deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that that I might at least that you know yeah at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they oh just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you got to cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it my God it's still happen still happening today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and yeah it's already been it's been debunked but the geese the geese they had I saw a picture online though gu car a goose but but you know they had this this one woman Laura lumer has oh man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when margerie Taylor Green in no way in no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than margorie Taylor green I mean it really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lumer up to this to make margorie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else say I I think that's where this is going when comparison comparison she she might that but that might not be good for for her reelection I mean she's in she's in the lower house man she got a run every two years so she's up yeah but right now and that might that might lessen her cache man her value in her in her home constitu I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lomer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote over margin all right so you're realizing we're starting to sound real Radical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate rightwing vote moderate right no no I liked your earlier statement better hey look I just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas Tribune festival and it is you know predictably kind of a sort of a moderate left kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro was there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump and he's the guy you know who you know Carl Rove Le Atwater all those people put Bush Bush's brain yeah put Bush's put Bush on the on the map in terms of you know how he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah well Dad was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of white yeah right so you know that that kind of moderates him a little bit but you know well he also well he was critical if people um uh uh endangering the lives of Muslims after 911 you know there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at the the triing Fest and the thing about it is that they were all kamla Harris supporters they're all never trumpers Lincoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're Filipino yeah we talked a littleit you have a major interest in the area around the former uh Naval Base yeah but but I just you know I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans you were saying that they were all never trumpers and yeah Pro Harris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has got a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a [Laughter] way oh oh that hurt well I'm just saying not not in terms of I mean you know he's the new he's the new that you really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you know he's uh he's uh not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist and misogynist as hell yeah and you know what with more I mean I'll say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding mental health she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that she either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can agree with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what does it say about American politics now you see after the debate more Republicans join there's gonna be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterms after after November you know like in in uh 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve a significant amount of what they State their agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system um and and put more judges out there uh that's what they need to do uh you know the Republicans blame the Democrats for all of the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah right they don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they wantan to they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services uh but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right post Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything the government does is all socialist and they're saying that again they you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell Marx uh has been saying he call you she's a Marxist you know a grouo Marxist or so no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government uh the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know except existing companies who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh they're targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them Greener I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things ridiculously complex so I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes to your point about government is so complex getting grants of the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive and so that people can really access things like if someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumers anyway uh you're you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad well Wildfire uh season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who's burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that might be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh Looney bins Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida and now Senator you know denying that there's any kind of climate change and all the rest of that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is going to flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for him okay so they're going to have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh Inland mid mid peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're going to pay a price and this is the thing about when they people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they dare me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I celed a couple friends of mine that owned property uh around the Russian River uh you know you got it I don't know I don't know you should be holding on to that this is the thing that I you know community outreach um they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfortunately especially local press which is really what matters yeah local press ethnic press and what scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this is this is the thing about KLA Harris and that the debate on U on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and you said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high inflation is and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or mortgage rates or who's GNA you know make my gas gas prices lower who's going to lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's a liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers and hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure sure I I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows the the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when you yeah coming up I think uh yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed yeah and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he wouldn't go for another debate yeah well he's saying he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Waltz campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like Kamala porn or something you know Oh you mean like uh you know sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you know which she says that you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a star they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I think on the right on his the Trump I think he was helped by it well I think a lot of guys especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're gonna vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about men of color and kamla Harris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump in larger numbers than people would think well what's going on I am not I am not a psychologist St psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an African-American psychologist okay PhD in Psychology uh longterm uh uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something you know so anyway uh Laura headed is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross loss and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and her students uh were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and I you know you you lose track after a few years at who specifically was in your class but but uh Linda was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic mentor to these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who's a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more you know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in African studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hip-hop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when uh women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of African-American men and a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean that they're not talking about her policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman hey I've had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buying into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know I mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said what the hell what the hell difference is that make what difference did it make that Obama has was half white actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said at nabj well sometime is she black I just you know yeah you know it's the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the stations but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a c yeah was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their panel uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had an African-American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call ay you know he was you know moderately light-skinned and um and uh and younger maybe even only in his 20s you know like right out of college um and he they both were trumpers and they both and they both said well you know I haven't heard enough from either of them and then they were asked Point Blank right well are you going to is there any chance that you would vote for for how you know for Kamala and one guy said no outright I'm a conservative you know I wouldn't do that and the other one said uh no I'm definitely leaning Trump so w had no effect on these two guys and they were within the age range that we're talking about right now yeah I just don't I just don't see that I you know he it's man of color you see it or you can't believe it I well I just I I have a hard time believing that uh okay that's happening but also look it's men of color plus white women because I see the the focus groups that have white women saying oh well she sounds nice she sounds smart but I I think Donald Trump has far more experience oh yeah experience with felies I mean I there a lot of things I don't get all right you know what that is okay underlying all of this stuff at the root of everything is race oh yeah of course the root of everything is race and so not yeah and then and then when you move over to men of color and trying to explain their problem okay underlying everything is misogyny and it it's it saddens me to be able to say that but I have to say that based on my own experience observation and also in terms of academic data yeah well racism and misogyny whenever you have an Asian-American African-American woman for the first time running for president you will have aspects of racism and misogyny and it's too bad it's too bad us what you're saying is you're having a difficult time accepting that uh men of color particularly Latinos and African-Americans yeah um subscribe to those values I I do have a hard time because it's it's against their self-interest well but there's people who vote against their self-interest all the time there's people who drive against their self-interest there's people who make left turns left turns in front of me with no signal right yeah look we just talked we just talked about affirmative action too so yeah people people working against but affirmative action is a little deeper and and and the people all when they make erroneous uh decision decisions like that okay anti-affirmative action it's because they're accepting the shallow definition of the circumstances they're not they're not ex they're not seeing all of the permutations all of the facts that are involved in that process you know the general perspective on affirmative action has always been that people are using race and race only to their advantage and that's the only reason that people are getting voted in or chosen for admissions or hired is because of race and and and that is not a qualifying Factor they feel that the persons are not qualified otherwise that they would never have been chosen if they were not uh a person of color or if they were not a person of color or a woman okay and maybe lgbtqq so right that's what they do so yeah you you except for those categories of Suspicion right that's what they're called in the court is a suspect category if you're not in one of those suspect categories right uh then then people don't assume that you're incompetent but if you are from one of those suspect categories and you have a freaking job right that that you know they'll say well you know they got that job because uh you they got we saw an extremely competent woman Asian-American African-American woman trounce a white former president she is a Dei hire in all its full-blown Glory she was better than a white man that that's what we can say that's what we can say she performed better than that particular white man I would hate to hold all white men to that standard well you know and the fact is Donald Trump is there because he has benefited from a kind of white privilege and white affirmative action whites wanted him to carry their mantle you know you wanted him as their standard Bearer and look where it's getting them I think in the end it's going to be the wrong choice for a guy to be president a second time around so yeah okay yeah but if he if he is elected and he gets that second time around uh we will all be visited by by the we will all be vulnerable to that comes from that well I think people better pay attention because uh you know Donald Trump If he if he wins I don't think he'll have any qualms or any hesitation to do all the things that he says he wants to do you know the dictatorship on day one yeah when he's R when he's doing his rally speeches I don't have any I I I think so too and it's G to be interesting I mean if he wins I'd be really interested in seeing how the people who thought they could control him the first time around right they're not there they he's talking to Lura lumer he's the people the people trying to help him out aren't there hey look in the time remaining let's look at some of the facts that the key facts on the on the economic front people thinking about inflation he said a lot of things about uh inflation and the tariffs first the tariffs yeah tariffs tariffs are not paid for by a foreign company tariffs are paid for by the consumer timately ultimately the consumer it's it's paid for actually by the Importer which and the costs are passed on to the consumer Trump may deny it's a sales tax but those costs are going to be passed on to the consumer and the they already are they already are we already are suffering the consequences of that one of them is that when it comes to electric cars the the better electric cars are are being made right now in in in not only South Korea and Japan but also in China right China big time and even India is starting to get into the act and there are tariffs against all of them because they they are able to sell here much more cheaply than American made electric cars and they're much more dependable they right people just need to know that the way tariffs Works work Donald Trump doesn't understand tariffs he doesn't understand tariffs when he says that he's going to make China pay I think he does I think he does I think he does and I think he's just willing to lie his ass off I mean I think he you know that is so simplistic it is so stupid right and he keeps bragging about Wharton Wharton Wharton you know I went to business school Wharton Wharton Wharton hey one of the first things you learn is about tffs yeah and knowing at Wharton says that uh there's a professor Warden said I don't know anyone here at Warden who backs Donald Trump so there it is yeah so all right now he also said he said Donald Trump said I had no I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation I had no inflation virtually virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation they the Biden Harris had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worse period of time and and the Washington Post fact checked and said Biden did not have the highest inflation in US history yeah inflation spiked to 9% mid 2022 y but it was as high as 13.3% in 1979 right and or actually 13.3% yeah in 1979 12.5% in 1980 and it was 18.1% in 1946 and so he's the war ended the war stopped right you know so production production stopped uh unemployment skyrocketed right all the rest of that so yeah uh okay so there that is um also one of the yeah well from let's do some more of the fact check so the the two the two key ones are uh the tariffs and inflation because people are you know they're bothered by inflation uh inflation which right now currently is at 2.5% and we're probably going to get uh some kind of uh help from the FED when they lower rates when they lower interest rates and that's going to lower rates on credit cards and car interest yeah but I I think they're only going to move by a quarter this time I was hoping for half half a point but I think they're only going to move by about a quarter it's not going to be the big one but it's it's gonna help you know inflation all right here's here's another thing Trump said he said we have we have millions of people pouring into our country from prisons and jails from mental inations and insane asylums I mean where does he get that right I mean this is another xenophobia the same place he got his poll polling statistics yeah this is anti-immigrant uh the the post called it poppycock there is no way that they're coming out of any of those places and the number uh the number let's see uh a research associate for institute for crime and Justice policy research in Britain says the number let's see says in 2013 10.2 million people were in prison globally and that had grown to 10.7 S say where were this it says uh so people basically yeah but the biggest prison population is the US prison population right right but most people disagree with what Trump said that they're coming out of you know jails and asylums okay now let's see I I guess you know those are the big things people should go to I mean we we debunked the the dog and cat Springfield Ohio story that was debunked well before he even repeated them people are still people are still repeating it and they're still looking for pictures and you know they're doing you know the um I don't know they they didn't even get into education or any of that stuff oh they didn't get into education and there was only one line where they got into lgbtq issues when they talked about some guy going into a bathroom and getting an operation which is like in the bathroom yeah yeah was that surgeon in this what yeah there's just a lot of baloney there I can't see anyone voting for Trump but you know uh we're dealing with the United States so um it's GNA be close it's going to be a close uh election well that's what that's the scary part and that's the part that I always tell people people who get engage in conversations with me including my neighbors I said you know I you know even if Trump loses you know he's not GNA go away unless he leaves the country because he doesn't want to go to jail you know but he well that's gonna be it yeah but but but his people won't go away they're G to be here and when you see close to 50% of all of the voters in the United States uh willing to support a guy like that they're not going to go away that their their values and the things that that uh uh motivate them to vote for people like this are are clearly indications of how they think yeah and and and they're going to be there and they always have been there that's what I keep trying to tell my students yeah look at the history if you look at the history that element of of racist nationalism has always been there and Trump just gave him a reason to come out unfortunately and and this is the bad thing because when I was at that uh that this thing in Texas I I don't think I ever met so many Republicans that I liked that was a in in in my experience there are so many nice Republicans I said GE I hope this is a trend I hope this is a trend because we're talking to each other and maybe we can come up with policy that makes sense I hope if if Harris wins there is that sense because people will realize she's not some she's not comrade kamla she's not a Marxist she is a Centrist and we have a shot at creating a government that can work for everyone well that was that was the knock that she took from progressives and and liberals oh yeah yeah she was she they saw her as a right winger just by being a DA you know you know and I know that's the case there's a lot of people on the the left and the extreme left who look at KLA Harrison and say oh no thank you oh no thank you and and you know and people in the extreme right who's say oh no thank you oh no thank you and really it's it's the people in the middle who say yeah you know K she deserves a shot she she she can do it but let's see how close Hey listen Dan uh thanks for being with me uh talking about this thanks for having me thanks for having me pleasure being back yeah and we'll we'll talk again soon uh I I don't know what's gonna happen that we'll follow the campaign we'll follow I mean North Carolina looks like they're they're moving toward KLA uh you got Wisconsin I guess Pennsylvania will still be very critical um Nevada Nevada is gonna be and Michigan look like they're moving in her Direction definitely but but you know it's just polls yeah well we'll see more Nevada I'm with you I think Nevada and Arizona are GNA really be significant well if if you if you need pad and someone there someone's gonna need pad they're gonna they're gonna need it all but I think what with the debate if any I mean I I said this after I saw her speak at the DNC that if anyone had any doubts but this was like 67 million people watching this and all people not just Democrats it was Republicans too if they saw this they know now that KLA Harris is more than capable more than qualified and what scared me a little bit over the last three years is how everyone had such jaundice view of kamla Harris all the the the you know the mainstream press when when there was a big takeout in one of the papers the New York Times Washington Post you name it they would always approach the profile as if H we don't know about this Comm oh there's something something wrong I never I I had some my issues with her but I was not as skeptical as the Washington press Corp and well your issues were real issues you in other words there were things that she did that that you either found uh contributed to a more just Society or that you found uh were likely to cause a greater amount of Injustice that you know that's when you're looking at at a DA or an attorney general that's generally what you're looking at right yeah and so your criticisms of her were legitimate criticisms just as my points uh of reminders to you that she did some good things about youth uh uh uh you know you she wasn't quite an advocate but she definitely started up programs um that were more likely to uh keep youth away from uh adult prisons and more likely instead to give them Alternatives right to to criminal well here's the thing that you learned about people's past you know they're not perfect right they might might go this way on one issue and the other way another that's right in the end uh she's running today against Donald Trump and compared to Donald Trump comml Harris looks like uh like she's Heaven Sent right compared to Donald's Donald Trump and I I think people are gonna have to make up their own minds uh and not rely on Taylor Swift unfortunately but yeah what can I say and not rely on uh Beyonce or Jay-Z or I know wuen you have you know I discovered wuen Clan recently yeah you know you co you know wuang Clan Ain't Nothing To with that's nothing with they're my favorite Asian-American rap [Laughter] group I I know they're not I they're from Brooklyn they're from qu yeah I know I know all right Dan hey thanks uh stick around we'll talk uh there but there he goes Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend College of Ethics stud he Asian American studies San Francisco State University far more radical than I am which is why I like to bring him in you know usually on Fridays so I can tell if my my barometer is still working yeah I'm a little more to the center a little more to the center hey check out my columns on the alff blog a df.org blog you know I'm I'm moving the column the column's going to go somewhere else here here if you want to play this game with me should where should I move it to substack or move it to patreon uh just go to your the form here just or go to am.com and say Emil you should go here or Emil you should just shut up no one cares about you or you know just tell me because uh I won't be at Al f um for for much longer but let me know let me know you can catch my columns here now my back columns at AAL df.org blog and um let's see what else are we doing oh you know I have discovered something I have discovered intentional laughter and it's helped me a lot just laughing on purpose not because I I said something funny like you know Dan was laughing um you know before because I had I was doing my trump my trump impression this is laughter non dependent on a trump impression non- dependent on anything it's just I call it intentional laughter and it's helped it's helped and check out I'll do some things probably in a week I'll start my intentional after things here on this show I I still do meditation cuz that's helped me helped me a lot helped me a lot calm down about everything that's come down the pike you know my Yogi say hey stop watching the news you want to feel happy stop watching the news but these news meditations have also helped me so anyway meditation is help news meditation story meditation loving kindness sending it out to you out there and then cuz it come was back twofold three-fold four-fold and so as I wish for me I wish for you may you be safe may you be happy may you be healthy and may you live with ease Emil goo here catch us on YouTube at Amil amuk One X at Amil amuk FB Facebook at Emil goo. Media or my name Emil GMO have a great weekend till next time Mahal and you found us hi everyone it's Emil it's Emil GMO a m to you thank you for catching us here on my my takeout my Emil among takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes and all things considerable I this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well H and with Ishmael I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still factchecking we're going to try to fact check Washington posted a big fact check trying to see who lied trying to see what was said because you know it's hard to to it it really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he won in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse than being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lomer yesterday with ishmail ishmail I hadn't heard of Lisa L but Lisa lomer was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday KLA Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's going to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not debating because you know just like the prize fighters who ask for a rematch they're the losers and he's not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the Harvard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released them we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high somewh were down you know affirmative action uh here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I see it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if your numbers are the same it means man affirmative action was doing its job it was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and my take it's on the alde blog the Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed that they bought it they played to their self-interest and in doing so they got rid of one of the best tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down to every form of admissions or every form of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to a all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they play to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrifice all that for their for the just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discriminated no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect scores and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are they oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone and we're left with this colorblind BS where we don't know where we are the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzalez in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well [Music] so here he is Daniel Phil gonzale is my friend Professor College of ethnic study San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the asian-americans who were duped and put out there as the perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down a system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now are in conclusive well uh yeah the all they did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stayed the same at 37 yeah yeah but and but we only constitute we constitute less than 6% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admission that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher it would be in the 40s 43% on who yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's what I that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of equity to Prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians who were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is just as bad because the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because say exactly because if there was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah yeah and and uh that's interesting right that it's that it's steady I I I've always questioned why people are so uh interested right at at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say uh highly a culturation and assimilationist value yeah it it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to Harvard because ishmail Reed said the same thing he's like what's the big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is Harvard is the Louis Vuitton of schools and and and and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids to go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're into the the the designer education but you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the guy from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's uh the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejecting did and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race-based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents were saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have a new one allegedly colorblind well that's the thing how how how colorblind and you know one of the things about you can't tell uh what's happening uh because whites have the option not to say their race or people have their option not to say their race so and Harvard didn't even release the official whites you know number how many whites in the population that's right yeah so they only listed yeah yeah so you can't you can't really tell Asian others yeah Asians were 37 blacks were at eight were were we're at 18 now 14 18 and that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say that's I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many questions that people really aren't uh inclined to deal with that have a lot more to do with uh you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any School uh elite school because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard Bearer that you know that that was used that say Hey look we'll use har because if we go to if you if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding everyone that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess uh you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it rep it epitomizes uh uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness okay so but the then the question is as a practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cash when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivy league Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a masters and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there was a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then go on for the Masters and so but even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to Accidental yeah and he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he he still was at Princeton right for for the under oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shopping well certain members of the Marcos family would be very disappointed in your attitude about oh that's right they they like prin well I'm just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PHD that's right but those of us who went to the college we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is we we are that is the cradle that is the Cradle of the well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no College at all right well yeah it makes it makes the Mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago uh I wasn't able to be on last week but uh um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States um in the uh in the Republican party right of South Asian descent yeah two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she still has significant you know uh cach you're talking about Nikki Haley you're talking about Nicki Haley yeah yeah Nicki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh lobbying business now well she's for now for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's where that's where we are and I and I know a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and uh thought that the cachet would get them in and around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no and they were really disappointed you know some of them were in business related areas or were in you know business um and and I and I told them when they left the city uh the only thing that's worthwhile in business is is only two things and one of them is getting a masters in Biz bad right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if you're not an accounting major in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you know I don't care if you went to Harvard yeah well here's the they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surp surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was uh racial uh discrimination um you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher ed level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfish re or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own meritocracy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare handout it's just equity and fairness you know an equal Shake as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's okay if we're going to go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my classes can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job or um at a an institution uh on the west coast which has a substantial uh Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimination and therefore uh find uh a need to at least uh study the law and their rights you know and and and assert them uh at the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the emplo you know at HR right at the resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's already happened there there there are already institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top asian-americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who studied this thing they they warned the selfish Asians to say we don't you know we we we have straight A's we can get in we we we can rely on meritocracy we don't need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not higher ed not you know post post post you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asian-americans are about the same exactly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asians with 4.0 getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess we can't claim discrimination because there's no race I guess by being against affir affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is yeah is done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so you were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that uh race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they're they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asians you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would rely on my my knowledge because good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with a four you know 4.0 and you know on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there's there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not and this is this is why in my column on the ALF blog AAL df.org blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the foresight to understand that you are being used and this is going to backfire and it's G to you're going to Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything has come down for everyone not yeah it's it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color oh they're in favor of others okay and and the implication is their discrimination against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting white racist superiority oh yeah oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the bone because they you you just said they're adopting racist views about they're they're adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they're adopting this is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test score Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about it's they want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimacy that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familial uh Legacy yes exactly familial Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football what I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of airm action but the was would they extend that Legacy to my son or daugh you know my my right right and they could have to say hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law school or the business school but we'll bring him into the college uh they didn't they rejected him my my my son went to you see you see Berkeley well wow what a sad story yeah exactly see the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah ammer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get into Harvard so a lot of them got into Stanford or or they got into UC oh tough right yeah I I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right they are not going to look favorably on the asian-americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what and they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is we don't know that yeah we don't know because because the the percentage of the class for the blacks the Asians and the Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and successful use of the Asians he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white representation right that failed that failed miserably yeah you know I just don't know to what extent it failed right yeah proven is that they're people of color who qualify yeah you know so yeah that was always a fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than they thought affirmative action for whites is not easy not an easy thing well people don't even think about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank right and and and other obviously you know Hank Shang you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint in the United States I said well let me check it out and so I'd go and look at see what their staff looked like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an MBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as tokens you know well that's that's it you know 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we Dan where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know uh I was getting A's in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh well so where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded in taking the word equity and substituting it for the n-word that's essentially what they've done the nword yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an end oh I see I see and yet see this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deep sixed everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for everybody and and there there were Asian-American Civil Rights group saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for everyone yep for being selfish all right let's uh let's move on let's swish out got my Swisher working Dan let let's go back to top topic a is still oh the debate still the debate all right so what debate we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column Ali blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund ald df.org blog and I said I I was hesitant to say that KLA Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that kamla Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she wasn't as good as I'd hope she was on some specific thing she relied too much on I'm I'm I'm get I'm going to give small businesses $50,000 I mean she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I didn't agree I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not Total Domination but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did you did she was it Total Domination was it a but well it may be a shock to you but I have complete agreement with you oh well yeah see I'm I'm a moderate I'm a moderate next next topic I I uh I'm in complete agreement with you I was somewhat disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of uh couple of opportunities in particular and um one of them was uh you know you hate to go toe-to-toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the Border Zar stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and uh you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct she could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but there you goly but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of hers that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartisan deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair some I thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump will you comment on the border the Border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that's sort of a gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do that that's terrible though right I mean people go it's terrible that that that the general public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but but D it's a it's about the slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the Border issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and cats which is a slur which is it is it is intense enally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist and it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yes I I would say I would say definitely I was but but and I thought you were gonna say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs do me because first of all it was cat cat cat meat which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in the and they ate lion so I guess technically I had CAD uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the purported well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of other Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians who yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know are you gonna eat that you just it was a standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh uh you know eat eat everything before you die was a title from one of his books yeah well but you know this is the standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and you know Asians should have felt that right to the core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic it's racist but it works amongst some whites today still uh some some well you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know it would resonate with some but not all do you think all no I don't I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of racist Notions right some level so it's a question of degree and and and most people would Al deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that I might at least that you know at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you got to cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it God it's still still happening today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and yeah it's already been it's been debunked but geese the geese they had I saw a picture online though guy caring Goose but but you know they had this this one woman Laura lumer oh man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when margerie Taylor green this is in no way in no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than Marjorie Taylor green I mean it really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lumer up to this to make Marjorie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else say I I think that's where this is going when compar and she she might but that might not be good for for her reelection I mean she's in she's in the lower house man she got a run every two years so she's up yeah but up right now and that might that might lessen her cache man her value in her in her home constitu I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lomer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote over Mar tayor all right so you're realizing we're starting to sound real radical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate rightwing V right no no I liked your earlier statement better hey look I just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas tribun festival and it is you know predictably a kind of a sort of a moderate left kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro is there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump and he's the guy you know who you know Carl Rove Le Atwater all those people put Bush's brain yeah put Bush's put Bush on the on the map in terms of you know how he he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah well D was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of white yeah right so you know that that kind of moderates him a little bit but you know well he also well he was critical if people um uh endangering the lives of Muslims after 911 you know he came there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at the the tribing Fest and the thing about it is that they were all kamla Hara supporters they're all never trumpers Lincoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're a Philipino yeah we talked a little bit you have a major interest in the area around the former uh Naval Base yeah but but I just you know uh I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans you were saying that they were all never trumpers and yeah Pro Harris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has gotten a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a [Laughter] way oh oh that hurt well I I'm just saying not not in terms of Poli I me you know he's the new he's the new that you really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you he's uh he's uh not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist and misogynist as hell yeah and you know what more I mean I'll say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding metal heal she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that she either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can agree with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what does it say about American politics now you after the debate there more Republicans Jo I think there's going to be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterms after after November you know like in in uh 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve a significant amount of what they state they're agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system um and and put more judges out there uh that's what they need to do uh you know the Republicans blame the Democrats for all of the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah they don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they want to they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services uh but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right post Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything the government does is all socialist and they're saying that again they you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell Marx uh has been saying he calls you she's a Marxist you know a grouo Marxist or so no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government uh the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know except existing companies who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh they're targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them Greener I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things are ridiculously complex so I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes to your point about government is so complex getting grants from the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive so that people can really access things like if someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumers anyway uh you're you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad well Wildfire uh season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who's burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that may be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh Looney bins Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida and now Senator you know denying that there's any kind of climate change and all the rest of that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is going to flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for him okay so they're going to have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh Inland mid mid Peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're going to pay a price and see this is the thing about people when they they people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they dare me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I counselled a couple of friends of mine that owned property uh around the Russian River uh you know you got it I don't know I don't know you should be be holding on to that this is the thing that I you know community outreach um they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfortunately especially local press which is really what matters yeah local press ethnic press and what scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this this is the thing about KLA Harris and the the debate on U on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and he said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high inflation is and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or mortgage rates or who's going to you know make my gas gas prices lower who's going to lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's a liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers and hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I don't know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure I I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows the the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when yeah coming up I think uh yeah yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed yeah and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he wouldn't go for another debate yeah well he's saying he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Walts campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like uh Kamala porn or something you know Oh you mean like uh you know sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you know she says that you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a star they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I think on the right on his the Trumper side I think he was helped by it well let's go I think a lot of guys especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're going vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about men of color and KLA Harris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump in larger numbers than people would think well what's going I am not I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and were voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an African-American psychologist okay PhD Psychology uh longterm uh uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and uh she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something and you know so anyway uh Laura headed is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross lost and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and her students uh were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and I you know you you lose track after a few years at who specifically was in your class but but uh Linda was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic mentor to these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who's a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more you know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in African studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hip-hop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when uh women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of uh African-American men and a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I yeah I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean that they're not talking about her policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buying into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know you mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said what the hell what the hell difference does that make what difference did it make that Obama has was halfway actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said at nabj well sometime is she black I just you know yeah you know it the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the station but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a c yeah it was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their panel uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had a a American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call ay you know he was you know moderately lkin and um and uh and younger maybe even only in his 20s you know like right out of college um and he they both were trumpers and they both and they both said well you know I haven't heard enough from either of them and then they were asked Point Blank right well are you going to is there any chance that you would vote for for how you know for comma and one guy said no outright I'm a conservative you know I wouldn't do that and the other one said uh no I'm definitely leaning Trump so w had no effect on these two guys and they were within the age range that we're talking about right now yeah I just don't I just don't see that I you know he it's man of you see it or you can't believe it I well I just I have a hard time believing that that's happening but also look it's men of color plus white women because I see the the focus groups that have white women saying oh well she sounds nice she sounds smart but I I think Donald Trump has far more experience oh yeah experience with felies I mean I there a lot of things I don't get all right you know what that is okay underlying all of this stuff at the root of everything is race oh yeah of the root of everything is race and so not yeah and then and then when you move over to men of color you trying to explain their problem okay underlying everything is misogyny and it it's it saddens me to be able to say that but I have to say that based on my own experience observation and also in terms of academic data yeah well racism and misogyny whenever you have an Asian-American africanamerican woman for the first time running for president you will have aspects of racism and misogyny and it's too bad it's too bad what you're saying is you're having a difficult time accepting that uh men of color particularly Latinos and African-Americans yeah um subscribe to those values I I do have a hard time because it's it's against her self-interest well but there's people who voted against their self-interest all the time there's people who drive against their self-interest there's people who make left turns left turns in front of me with no signal right yeah look we just talked we just talked about affirmative action too so yeah people people workself yeah but affirmative action is a little deeper and and and the people all when they make erroneous uh decisions like that okay anti-affirmative action it's because they're accepting the shallow definition of the circumstance they're not they're not they're not seeing all of the permutations all of the facts that are involved in that process you know the general perspective on affirmative action has always been that people are using race and race only to their advantage and that's the only reason that people are getting voted in or chosen for admissions or hired is because of race and and and that is not a qualifying Factor they feel that the persons are not qualified otherwise that they would never have been chosen if they were not uh uh a person of color or if they were not a person of color or a woman okay lgbtqq so right that's what they do so you you except for those categories of Suspicion right that's what they're called in the court is a suspect category if you're not in one of those suspect categories right uh then then people don't assume that you're incompetent but if you are from one of those suspect categories and you have a freaking job right that that you know they'll say well you know they got that job because uh you they got welli we saw an extremely competent woman Asian-American African-American woman trouts a white former president she is a Dei hire in all its full-blown Glory she was better than a white man that that's what we can say that's what we can say perform better than that particular white man I would hate to hold all white men to that standard well you know and the fact is Donald Trump is there because he has benefited from a kind of white privilege and white affirmative action whites wanted him to carry their mantle you know you wanted him as their standard Bearer and and look where it's getting them I think in the end it's going to be the wrong choice for a guy to be present a second time around so yeah okay yeah but if he if he is elected and he gets that second time around uh we will all be visited by by the we will all be vulnerable to that comes from that well I think people better pay attention because uh you know Donald Trump if he if he wins I don't think he'll have any qualms or any hesitation to do all the things that he says he wants to do you know the dictatorship on day one yeah when he's rallying when he's doing his rally speeches yeah don't have any I I I think so too and it's gonna be interesting I mean if he wins i' be really interested in seeing how the people who thought they could control him the first time around right no they're not there they're he's talking to Lura lomer he's the people the people trying to help him out aren't there hey look in the time remaining let's look at some of the facts that're the key facts on the on the economic front people thinking about inflation he said a lot of things about uh inflation and the tariffs first the tariffs yeah tariffs tariffs are not paid for by a foreign company tffs are paid for by the consumer the timately ultimately the consumer it's it's paid for actually by the Importer which and the costs are passed on to the consumer Trump may deny it's a sales tax but those costs are going to be passed on to the consumer and the they already are they already are we already are suffering the consequences of that one of them is that when it comes to electric cars the the better electric cars are are being made right now in in in not only South Korea and Japan but also in China right China big time and even India is starting to get into the act and there are tariffs against all of them because they they are able to sell here much more cheaply than American made electric cars and they're much more dependable they right people just need to know that the way tariffs Works work Donald Trump doesn't understand tariffs he doesn't understand tariffs when he says that he's going to make China pay I think he does I think he does I think he does and I think he's just willing to lie his ass off I mean I think he you know that is so simplistic it is so stupid right and he keeps bragging about Wharton Wharton Wharton you know I went to business school Wharton Wharton Wharton hey one of the first things you learn is about tariffs yeah and knowing at Wharton says that uh there's a professor Wharton said I don't know anyone here at Warden who backs Donald Trump so there it is yeah so all right now he also said he said Donald Trump Saidi had no I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation I had no inflation virtually virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation they the Biden Harris had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worse period of time and and the Washington Post fact checked and said Biden did not have the highest inflation in US history yeah inflation spiked to 9% mid2 22 Yeah but it was as high as 13.3% in 1979 right and or actually 13.3% yeah in 1979 12.5% in 1980 and it was 18.1% in 1946 and so he that was because the war ended the war stopped right you know production production stopped uh unemployment Skyrocket right all the rest of that so yeah uh okay so there that is um also one of the yeah well iay from let's do some more of the fact check so the the two the two key ones are uh the tariffs and inflation because people are you know they're bothered by inflation uh inflation which right now currently is at 2.5% and we're probably going to get uh some kind of uh help from the FED when they lower risk rates when they lower interest rates and that's going to lower rates on credit cards and car interest yeah but I I think they're only going to move by a quarter this time I was hoping for half half a point but I think they're only going to move by about a quarter it's not going to be the big one but it's it's gonna help you know inflation all right here's here's another thing Trump said he said we have we have millions of people pouring into our country from prisons and jails from mental and insane asylums I mean where does he get that right I mean this is another xenophobia the same place he got his poll polling statistics yeah this is anti-immigrant uh the the post called it poppycock there is no way that they're coming out of any of those places and the number uh the number let's see uh a research associate for institute for crime and Justice policy research in Britain says the number let's see says in 2013 10.2 million people were in prison globally and that had grown to [Music] 10.77% to I mean we we debunked the the dog and cat Springfield Ohio story that was debunked well before he even repeated them people are still people are still repeating it and they're still looking for pictures and you know they're doing you know the um I don't know they they didn't even get into education or any of that stuff oh they didn't get into education and there was only one line where they got into lgbtq issues when they talked about some guy going into a bathroom and getting an operation which is like in the bathroom yeah was that surgeon in this what yeah there this a lot of baloney there I can't see anyone voting for Trump but you know uh we're dealing with the United States so um it's going to be close it's going to be a close uh election well that's what that's the scary part and that's the part that I always tell people who get engage in conversations with me including my neighbors I said you know I you know even if Trump loses you know he's not goingon to go away unless he leaves the country because he doesn't want to go to jail you know but he's well that's gonna be it yeah but but but his people won't go away they're G to be here yeah and when you see close to 50% of all of the voters in the United States uh willing to support a guy like that they're not going to go away that their their values and the things that that uh uh motivate them to vote for people like this are are clearly indications of how they think think yeah and and and they're going to be there and they always have been there that's what I keep trying to tell my students look at the history if you look at the history that element of of racist nationalism has always been there and Trump just gave him a reason to come out unfortunately and and this is the bad thing because when I was at that uh that this thing in Texas I I don't think I ever met so many Republicans that I liked that was a in in in my experience there are so many nice Republicans I said GE I hope this is a trend I hope this is a trend because we're talking to each other and maybe we can come up with policy that makes sense I hope if if Harris wins there is that sense because people will realize she's not some she's not comrade kamla she's not a Marxist she is a Centrist and we have a shot at creating a government that can work for everyone no that was that was the knock that she took from progressives and and liberals oh yeah yeah she was she they saw her as a right winger just by being a DA yeah know you know and I know that's the case there's a lot of people on the the left and the extreme left who look at KLA Harrison and say oh no thank you oh no thank you and and you know and people in the extreme right who say oh no thank you oh no thank you and really it's it's the people in the middle who say yeah you know KY she deserves a shot she she she can do it but let's see how close Hey listen Dan uh thanks for being with me uh talking about this thanks for having me thanks for having me pleasure being back yeah and we we'll talk again soon uh I I I don't know what's gonna happen that we'll follow the campaign we'll follow I mean North Carolina looks like they're they're moving toward KLA uh you got Wisconsin I guess Pennsylvania will still be very critical um Nevada Nevada is GNA be Michigan look like they're moving in her Direction definitely but but you know it's just polls yeah well we'll see more Nevada I'm with you I think Nevada and Arizona are gonna really be significant well if if you if you need pad and someone there someone's gonna need pad they're gonna they're gonna need it all but I think what with the debate if any I mean I I said this after I saw her speak at the DNC that if anyone had any doubts but this was like 67 million people watching this and all people not just Democrats it was Republicans too if they saw this they know now that kamla Harris is more than capable more than qualified and what scared me a little bit over the last three years is how everyone had such a jaundice view of KLA Harris all the the the you know the mainstream press when when there was a big takeout in one the papers the New York Times Washington Post you name it they would always approach the profile as if H we don't know about this Comm ER oh there's something something wrong I never I I had some my issues with her but I was not as skeptical as the Washington press Corp and well your issues were real issues you know in other words there were things that she did that that you either found uh contributed to a more just Society or you found uh were likely to cause a greater amount of Injustice that you know that's when you're looking at a at a DA or an attorney general that's generally what you're looking at right yeah and so your criticisms of her were legitimate criticisms just as my points uh of reminders to you that she did some good things about youth uh uh uh you know you know she wasn't quite an advocate but she definitely started up programs um that were more likely to uh keep youth away from uh adult prisons and more likely instead to give them Alternatives right to to criminal well here's the thing that you learned about people's past you know they're not perfect right they might might go this way on one issue and the other way on another issue that's right in the end uh she's running today against Donald Trump and compared to Donald Trump uh KL Harris looks like uh like she's Heaven Sent right compared to Donald's Donald Trump and I I think people are going to have to make up their own minds uh and not rely on Taylor Swift unfortunately but yeah what can I say and not rely on uh Beyonce or Jay-Z or I know wuang you know I discovered wuang Clan recently yeah you know know you know D wuang Clan Ain't Nothing To with that's nothing with they're my favorite Asian-American rap [Laughter] group I I know they're not I they're from Brooklyn they're from qu yeah I know I know all right Dan hey thanks uh stick around we'll talk uh but there but there he goes Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend College of Ethics studies asian-americans studies San Francisco State University far more radical than I am which is why I like to bring him in you know usually on Fridays so I can tell if my my barometer is still working yeah I'm a little more to the center a little more to the center hey check out my columns on the alff blog a df.org Blog you know I'm I'm moving the column the column's going to go somewhere else here here if you want to play this game with me should where should I move it to substack or move it to patreon uh just go to your the form here just or go to am.com and say Emil you should go here or Emil you should just shut up no one cares about you or you know just tell me because uh I won't be at alev um for for much longer but let me know let me know you can cat my columns here now my back columns at AAL df.org blog and um let's see what else are we doing oh you know I have discovered something I have discovered intentional laughter and it's helped me a lot just laughing on purpose not because I said something funny like you know Dan was laughing um you know before because I had I was doing my trump my trump impression this is laughter non dependent on a trump impression non- dependent on anything it's just I call it intentional laughter and it's helped it's helped and check out I'll do some things probably in a week I'll start my intentional laughter things here on this show I I still do some meditation because that's helped me I helped me a lot help me a lot calm down about everything that's come down the pike you know my Yogi say hey stop watching the news you want to feel happy stop watching the news but these news meditations have also helped me so anyway meditation is help news meditation story meditation loving kindness sending it out to you out there and then because it comes back twofold threefold fourfold and so as I wish for me I wish for you may you be safe may you be happy may you be healthy and may you live with ease Emil goo here catch us on YouTube at Amil amuk One X Amil amuk FB Facebook at Emil G mod. media or my name Emil garmo have a great weekend till next time Mahal and you found us hi everyone it's Emil it's Emil GMO a Muk to you thank you for catching us here on my my takeout my Emil auk takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes on all things considerable uh this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well H and with ishmail I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still factchecking we're going to try to fact check Washington Post did a big fact check trying to say who lied trying to see what was said because you know it's hard to to it really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he won in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse than being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lumer yesterday with ishmail ishma I hadn't heard of Lisa but Lisa lomer was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday KLA Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's going to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not debating because you know just like the prize fighters who ask for a rematch they're the losers and he is not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so any that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the Harvard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released them we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high somewhere were down you know affirmative action here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I see it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if your numbers are the same it means man affirmative action was doing its job he was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and and my take it's on the alde blog the Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed it they bought it they played to their self- interest and in doing so they got rid of one of the best tools tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down to every form of admissions or every form of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to achieve all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they play to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrifice all that for their for their just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discriminated no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect scores and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are they comp oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone and we're left with this color blind BS where we don't know where we are the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzalez in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well [Music] so here he is Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend Professor College of ethnic studies San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the asian-americans who were duped and put out there as the perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down a system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now are in conclusive well uh yeah the all they did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stayed the same at 37 yeah yeah but and we only constitute we constitute less than 6% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admission that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher it would be in the 40s 43% yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's what I that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of equity to Prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians who were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is just as bad because the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because say exactly because if there was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah and and uh that's interesting right that it's that it's steady I I I've always questioned why people are so uh interested right at at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say uh highly a culturation and assimilationist value yeah it it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to Harvard because ishmail Reed said the same thing he like what's the big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is Harvard is the Louis Vuitton of schools and and and and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids to go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're into the the the designer education but you you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the guy from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's uh the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejected and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents were saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have a new allegedly colorblind well that's the thing how how how colorblind and you know one of the things about you can't tell uh what's happening uh because whites have the option not to say their race or people have their option not to say their race so and Harvard didn't even release the official whites you know number how many whites in the population right yeah so they only listed yeah yeah so you can't you can't really tell Asians others yeah Asians were 37 blacks were at eight were we're we're at 18 now 14 18 and that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many questions that people really aren't uh inclined to deal with that have a lot more to do with uh you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any school uh elite school because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard that you know that that was used that say Hey look we'll use because if we go to if if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding everyone that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it rep it epitomizes uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness okay so but then then the question is as a practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cache when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivy league Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a masters and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there's a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then go on for the Masters and so even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to Accidental yeah and then he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he he still was at Prin right for for the under oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shoing well certain members of the Marcos family would be very disappointed in your attitude about oh that's right they they like princing well I'm just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PhD that's right but those of us who went to the college we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is we we are that is the cradle that is the Cradle of the well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no college at all right well yeah it makes it makes the Mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago uh I wasn't able to be on last week but uh um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States um in the uh in the Republican party right of South Asian descent yeah two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she still has a significant you know uh cach you're talking about Nikki Haley you're talking about Nikki Hal yeah yeah Nicki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh lobbying business now well for now for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's where that's where we are and I and I know uh a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and thought that the cache would get them in and around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no and they were really disappointed you know some of them were in business related areas or were in you know business um and and I and I told them when they left the city uh the only thing that's worthwhile in business is there only two things and one of them is getting a masters in Biz bad right right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if you're not an accounting major in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you know I don't care if you went to Harvard yeah well here's they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was uh racial uh discrimination uh you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher aded level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfish re or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own meritocracy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare handout it's just equity and fairness you know an equal Shake as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's okay if we're going to go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my my classes can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job or um at a an institution uh on the west coast which has a substantial uh Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimin a and therefore uh find uh a need to at least study the law and their rights you know and and assert them uh at the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the employ you know at HR right at the human resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's happened there there are already institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top asian-americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who studied this thing they they warned the selfish Asians to say we don't you know we we we we have straight A's we can get in we we we can rely on meritocracy we don't need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not higher ed not you know post post uh post you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asian-americans are about the same exactly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asians with 4.0 getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess we can't claim discrimination because there's no race I guess by being against affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is is done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so you were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that uh race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know know uh I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they're they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asians you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would rely on my my knowledge because so good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with a four you know 4.0 and you know going on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there's there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not and this is this is why in my column on the ALF blog a df.org Blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the foresight to understand that you were being used and this is going to backfire and it's gon to you're going to Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything is come down for everyone not yeah it's it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color they're in favor of others okay and and the implication is their discrimination against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting quite racist superiority oh yeah oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the bone because they you you just said they were adopting racist views about they're they're adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they adapting this is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test score Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about it's they want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimacy that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments uh some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familial uh Legacy yes exactly familial Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football what I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of affirmative action but the T was would they extend that Legacy to my son or daugh you know my my right right right and they could have to say hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law school or the business school but we'll bring him into the college uh they didn't they rejected him my my my son went to UC you see Berkeley well wow what a sad story exactly see that's the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah hmer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get into Harvard so a lot of them got into Stanford or or they got into UC oh tough right yeah I I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right they are not going to look favorably on the asan Americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what are and they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is we don't know that yeah we don't know because because the the percentage of the class for the blacks the Asians and the Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and successful use of the Asians he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white representation right that failed that failed miserably yeah you know I just don't know to what extent it failed right yeah being proven is that they're people of color who qualify yeah you know so yeah that was always a fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than they thought affertive action for whites is not easy not an easy thing well people don't even think about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank yeah right and and and other obviously you know Hank Shen you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint in the United States I said well let me check it out and so I'd go and look at see what their staff looked like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an MBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as tokens you know well that's that's it you know 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we Dan where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know I was getting A's in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh so where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded in taking the word equity and substituting it for the nword that's essentially what they've done the n-word yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an end oh I see I see and yet see this this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deeped everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for everybody and and there there were Asian-American Civil Rights group saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for everyone yep for being selfish all right let's uh let's move on let's swish [Music] out got my Swisher working Dan let let's go back to top topic a is still oh the debate still the debate all right so what debate we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column alde blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund Al a df.org Blog and I said I I was hesitant to say that K La Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that KLA Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she wasn't as good as I'd hop she was on some specific thing she relied too much on I'm I'm I'm G get I'm gonna give small businesses $50,000 I'm she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I didn't agree I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not Total Domination but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did you did she was it Total Domination was it a well it may be a shock to you but I am complete agreement with you oh well yeah see I'm I'm a moderate I'm a moderate next next topic I I uh I'm complete agreement with you I was somewhat disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of a couple of opportunities in particular and um one of them was uh you know you hate to go toe-to-toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the Border Zar stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and uh you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but there you go but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of hers that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartisan deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair some I thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump will will you comment on the border the Border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that's sort of a gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do that that's terrible though right I mean people go it's terrible that that that the general public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but but Dan it's a it's about the slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the Border issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and cats which is a slur which is it is it is intentionally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist go it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yes I I would say I would say definitely I was but but and I thought you were gonna say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs do me because first of all it was cat cat cat meat which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in the 80s and they ate lion so I guess technically I had CAD uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the purported well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of other Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians who yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know are you gonna eat that you just it was a standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh you know eat eat everything before you die was titled from one of his books yeah well but you know D this is a standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and you know Asians should have felt that right to the core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic it's racist but it works among some whites today still uh some some well you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know it would resonate with some but not all do you think all no I don't I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of racist Notions right some level so it's a question of degree and and and most people would readily deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the stand standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that that I might at least that you know at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you gotta cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it God it's happening today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and it's already been it's been debunked but geese the geese they had I saw a picture online though a guying goose but but you know they had this this one woman Laura lomer oh man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when margerie Taylor green so this in no way in no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than Marjorie Taylor green I mean it really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lumer up to this to make Marjorie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else say I I think that's where this is going when my comparison you know she she might but that might not be good for for her reelection I mean she's she's in the lower house man she got to run every two years so she's up yeah but right now and that might that might lessen her cach man her value in her in her home constitu I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lomer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote over maror all right so you're realizing we're starting to sound real Radical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate right Wing right no I liked your earlier statement better hey look I just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas triban festival and it is you know predictably a kind of a sort of a modate left kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro was there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump and he's the guy you know who you know Carl Rove Le Atwater all those people put Bush's brain yeah put Bush's put Bush on the on the map in terms of you know how he he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah D was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of white yeah right so you know that that kind kind of moderates him a little bit but you know well he also well he was critical if people um uh uh endangering the lives of Muslims after 911 you know he came there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at the the triming Fest and the thing about it is that they were all kamla Harris supporters they're all never trumpers Lincoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're a Filipino yeah we talked a littleit you have a major interest in the area around the former uh Naval Base yeah but but I just you know uh I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans you were saying that were all never trumpers and yeah Pro Harris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has gotten a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a way oh oh that hurt well I I'm just saying not not in terms of I me you know he's the new he's the new that you really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you know he's uh he's uh not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist and misogynist as hell yeah and you know what more I mean I'll say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding metal health she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that she either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can agree with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what does it say about American politics now you see after the debate there more Republicans join think there's gonna be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not an anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterms after after November you know like in in uh 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve a significant amount of what they State their agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system and and put more judges out there that's what they need to do uh you know the Republicans blame the Democrats for all of the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah we don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they want to they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services uh but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right post Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything the government does is all socialist and they're saying that again you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell Marx uh has been saying he calls she's a Marxist you know a grouo Marxist or so no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government uh the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know except existing companies who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh they're targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them Greener I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things are ridiculously complex so I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes to your point about government is so complex getting grants of the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive and so that people can really access things like if someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumer anyway uh you're you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad W Wildfire uh season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who's burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that may be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh Looney bins Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida and now Senator you know this denying that there's any kind of climate change and all the rest of that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is going to flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for him okay so they're going to have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh Inland mid mid Peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're gonna pay a price and this is the thing about people when they people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I Consul a couple of friends of mine that owned property uh around the Russian River uh you know you got it I don't know I don't know you should be holding on to that this is the thing that I you know community outreach um they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfortunately especially local press which is really what matters yeah local press ethnic press and what scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this is this is the thing about KLA Harris and the the debate on um on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and he said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high inflation is and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or Mor trates or who's gonna you know make my gas gas prices lower who's gonna lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's a liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers and hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I don't know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure I I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows the the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when yeah coming up I think um yeah yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed yeah and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he wouldn't go for another debate yeah well he's saying he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Walt's campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like uh Kamala porn or something you know or you mean like uh you know sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you that she says you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a star they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I think on the right on his the Trumper side I think he was helped by it well let's go think a lot of guys especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're gonna vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about men of color and KLA Harris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump in larger numbers than people think well what's going I am not I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an African-American psychologist okay PhD pschology uh longterm uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something you know so anyway uh Laura head is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross law and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and her students were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and I you know you you lose track after a few years at who specifically was in your class but but uh Linda was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic mentor to these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who's a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in Africana studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hip-hop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when uh women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of African-American men and a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean that they're not talking about our policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman hey I've had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buying into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know you mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said what the hell what the hell difference does that make what difference did it make that Obama has was half white actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said in Naj well sometime is she black I just want you know yeah you know it's the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the stations but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a c yeah it was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their panel uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had an African-American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call ay you know he was you know moderately lightskinned and um and uh and younger maybe even only in his 20s you know like right out of college um and he they both were trumpers and they both and they both said well you know I haven't heard enough from either of them and then they were asked Point Blank right well are you gonna is there any chance that you would vote for for how you know for a comma and one guy said no outright I'm a conservative you know I wouldn't do that and the other one said uh no I'm definitely leaning Trump so w had no effect on these two guys and they were within the age range that we're talking about right now yeah I just don't I just don't see that I you know he it's men of color you see it or you can't believe it I well I just I have a hard time believing that that's happening but also look it's men of color plus white women because I see the the focus groups that have white women saying oh well she sounds nice she sounds smart but I I think Donald Trump has far more experience oh yeah experience withies I mean I there a lot of things I don't get all right you know what that is okay underlying all of this stuff at the root of everything is race oh yeah of course at the root of everything is race and not yeah and then and then when you move over to men of color and trying to explain their problem okay underlying everything is misogyny and it it's it saddens me to be able to say that but I have to say that based on my own experience observation and also in terms of academic data yeah well racism and misogyny whenever you have an Asian-American African-American woman for the first time running for president you will have aspects of racism and and it's too bad it's too bad what you're saying is you're having a difficult time accepting that uh men of color particularly Latinos and African-Americans yeah subscribe to those values I I do have a hard time because it's it's against their self-interest well but there's people who vote against their self-interest all the time there's people who drive against their self-interest there's people who make left turns left turns in front of me with no signal right yeah look we just talked we just talked about affirmative action too so yeah people people work against your yeah but affirmative action is a little deeper and and and the people all when they make erroneous uh decisions like that okay anti-affirmative action it's because they're accepting the shallow definition of the circumstances they're not they're not they're not seeing all of the permutations all of the facts that are involved in that process you the general perspective on affirmative action has always been that people are using race and race only to their advantage and that's the only reason that people are getting voted in or chosen for admissions or hired is because of race and and and that is not a qualifying Factor they feel that the persons are not qualified otherwise that they would never have been chosen if they were not uh a person of color or if they were not a person of color or a woman okay and lgbtqq so right that's what they do so you you except for those categories of Suspicion right that's what they're called in the court is a suspect category if you're not in one of those suspect categories right uh then then people don't assume that you're incompetent but if you are from one of those suspect categories and you have a freaking job right that that you know they'll say well you know they got that job because uh how they got therei we saw an extremely competent woman Asian-American African-American woman trouts a white former president she is a Dei hire in all its full-blown Glory she was better than a white man that that's what we can say that's what we can say better than that particular white man I would hate to hold all white men to that standard well you know and the fact is Donald Trump is there because he has benefited from a kind of white privilege and white affirmative action whites wanted him to carry their mantle you know you wanted him as their standard Bearer and look where it's getting them I think in the end it's going to be the wrong choice for a guy to be present a second time around so yeah okay yeah but if he if he is elected and he gets that second time around uh we will all be visited by by the we will all be vulnerable to Har that comes from that well I think people better pay attention because uh you know Donald Trump If he if he wins I don't think he'll have any qualms or any hesitation to do all the things that he says he wants to do you know the dictatorship on day one yeah when he's ring when he's doing his rally speeches yeah don't have any I I I think so too and it's gonna be interesting I mean if he wins I'd be really interested in seeing how the people who thought they could control him the first time around right oh no they're not there they're he's talking to Laura lomer he's the people the people trying to help him out aren't there hey look in the time remaining let's look at some of the facts that're the key facts on the on the economic front people thinking about inflation he said a lot of things about uh inflation and the tariffs first the tariffs yeah tariffs tariffs are not paid for by a foreign company tariffs are paid for by the consumer the person buys the prodct ultimately the consumer it's it's paid for actually by the Importer which and the costs are passed on to the consumer Trump made deny it's a sales tax but those costs are going to be passed on to the consumer and the they already are they already are we already are suffering the consequences of that one of them is that when it comes to electric cars the the better electric cars are are being made right now in in in not only South Korea and Japan but also in China right China big time and even India is starting to get into the act and there are tariffs against all of them because they they are able to sell here much more cheaply than American made electric cars and they're much more dependable they right PE people just need to know that the way tariffs Works work Donald Trump doesn't understand tariffs he doesn't understand tariffs when he says that he's gonna make China pay I think he does I think he does I think he does and I think he's just willing to lie his ass off I mean I think he you know that is so simplistic it is so stupid right and he keeps bragging about Wharton Wharton Wharton you know I went to business school Wharton Wharton Wharton hey one of the first things you learn is about tariffs yeah and no one at Wharton says that uh there's a professor at Wharton said I don't know anyone here at Warden who backs Donald Trump so there it is yeah so all right now he also said he said Donald Trump said I had no I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation I had no inflation virtually virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation they the Biden Harris had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because never seen a worse period of time and and the Washington Post fact checked and said Biden did not have the highest inflation in US history yeah inflation spiked to 9% mid 2022 y but it was as high as 13.3% in 1979 right and or actually 13.3% yeah in 1979 12.5% in 1980 and it was 18.1% in 1946 and so he's that was because the war ended the war stopped right yeah production production stopped uh unemployment skyrocketed right all the rest of that so yeah uh okay so there that is um also one of the yeah well iay from let's do some more of the fact check so the the two the two key ones are uh the tariffs and inflation because people are you know they're bothered by inflation uh inflation which right now currently is at 2.5% and we're probably going to get uh some kind of uh help from the FED when they lower rates when they lower interest rates and that's going to lower rates on credit cards and car interest yeah but I I think they're only going to move by a quarter this time was hoping for half half a point but I think they're only going to move by about a quarter it's not going to be the big one but it's it's going to help you know oh inflation all right here's here's another thing Trump said he said we have we have millions of people pouring into our country from prisons and jails from mental inss and insane asylums I mean where does he get that right I mean this is another xenophobia the same place he got his poll polling statistics yeah this is anti-immigrant uh the the post called it poppycock there is no way that they're coming out of any of those places and the number uh the number let's see uh a research associate for institute for crime and Justice policy research in Britain says the number let's see says in 2013 10.2 million people were in prison globally and that had grown to 10.77% say where were this it says uh so people basically yeah but the biggest prison population is the US prison population right right but most people disagree with what Trump said that they're coming out of you know jails and asylums okay now let's see I I guess you know those are the big things people should go to I mean we we've debunk the the dog in cat Springfield Ohio story that was debunked well before he even repeated them uh are still people are still repeating it and they're still looking for pictures and you know they're doing you know the um I don't know they they didn't even get into education or any of that stuff oh they didn't get into education and there was only one line where they got into lgbtq issues when they talked about some guy going into a bathroom and getting an operation which is like in the bathroom yeah yeah was that surgeon in this what yeah there's just a lot of baloney there I can't see anyone voting for Trump but you know uh we're dealing with the United States so um it's going to be close it's G to be a close uh election well that's what that's the scary part and that's the part that I always tell people who get engage in conversations with me including my neighbors I said you know I you know even if Trump loses you know he's not going to go away unless he leaves the country because he doesn't want to go to jail you know but he well that's going to be it yeah but but but his people won't go away they're going to be here and when you see close to 50% of all of the voters in the United States uh willing to support a guy like that they're not going to go away that their their values and the things that that uh uh motivate them to vote for people like this are are clearly indications of how they think yeah and and and they're going to be there and they always have been there that's what I keep trying to tell my students look at the history if you look at the history that element of of racist nationalism has always been there and Trump just gave him a reason to come out unfortunately and and this is the bad thing because when I was at that uh that this thing in Texas I I don't think I ever met so many Republicans that I liked that was a in in in my experience there are so many nice Republicans I said GE I hope this is a trend I hope this is a trend because we're talking to each other and maybe we can come up with policy that makes sense I hope if if Harris wins there is that sense because people will realize she's not some she's not comrade kamla she's not a Marxist she is a Centrist and we have a shot at creating a government that can work for everyone well that was that was the knock that she took from progressives and and liberals oh yeah yeah she was she they saw her as a right winger just by being a da yeah you know and I know that's the case there's a lot of people on the the left and the extreme left who look at KLA Harrison and say oh no thank you oh no thank you and and you know and people in the extreme right who say oh no thank you oh no thank you and really it's it's the people in the middle who say yeah you know KY she deserves a shot she she she can do it but let's see how close Hey listen Dan uh thanks for being with me uh talking about this thanks for having me thanks for having me being back yeah and we'll we'll talk again soon uh I I don't know what's going to happen that we'll follow The Campaign Will Follow I mean North Carolina looks like they're they're moving toward KLA uh you got Wisconsin I guess Pennsylvania will still be very critical um Nevada Nevada is Wisconsin and Michigan look like they're moving in her Direction definitely but but you know it's just polls yeah well we'll see more Nevada I I'm with you I think and Arizona are going to really be significant well if if you if you need pad and someone there someone's going to need pad they're gonna they're gonna need it all but I think what with the debate if any I mean I I said this after I saw her speak at the DNC that if anyone had any doubts but this was like 67 million people watching this and all people not just Democrats it was Republicans too if they saw this they know now now that KLA Harris is more than capable more than qualified and what scared me a little bit over the last three years is how everyone had such a jaundice view of KLA Harris all the the the you know the mainstream press when when there was a big takeout in one of the papers the New York Times Washington Post you name it they would always approach the profile as if H we don't know about this Comm oh there's something something wrong I never I I had some my issues with her but I was not as skeptical as the Washington press Corp and well your issues were real issues you know in other words there were things that she did that that you either found uh contributed to a more just Society or that you found uh were likely to cause a greater amount of Injustice that you know that's when you're looking at at a DA or at a attorney general that's generally what you're looking at right yeah and so your criticisms of her were legitimate criticisms just as my points uh of reminders to you that she did some good things about youth uh uh uh you know you know she wasn't quite an advocate but she definitely started up programs um that were more likely to uh keep youth away from uh adult prisons and more likely instead to give Alternatives right to to crimin well here's the thing that you learned about people's past you know they're not perfect right they might might go this way on one issue and the other way on another issue that's right in the end uh she's running today against Donald Trump and compared to Donald Trump KL Harris looks like uh like she's Heaven Sent right compared to Donald's Donald Trump and I I think people are going to have to make up their own Minds uh and not rely on Taylor Swift unfortunately but yeah what can I say and not rely on uh Beyonce or Jay-Z or I know wuang have you know I discovered wuang Clan recently yeah you know know cool you know wuang Clan Ain't Nothing To with that's nothing with there my favorite Asian-American rap [Laughter] group I I know they're not I they're from Brooklyn they're from qu yeah I know I know all right Dan hey thanks uh stick around we'll talk uh there but there he goes Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend College of ethnic studies Asian-American studies San Francisco State University far more radical than I am which is why I like to bring him in you know you usually on Fridays so I can tell if my my barometer is still working yeah I'm a little more to the center a little more to the center hey check out my columns on the alff blog a df.org Blog you know I'm I'm moving the column the column's going to go somewhere else here here if you want to play this game with me should where should I move it to substack or move it to patreon uh just go to your the form here just or go to am.com and say Emil you should go here or Emil you should just shut up no one cares about you or you know just tell me because uh I won't be at alev um for for much longer but let me know let me know you can cat my columns there now my back columns at a df.org Blog and um let's see what else are we doing oh you know I have discovered something I have discovered intentional laughter and it's helped me a lot just laughing on purpose not because I said something funny like you know Dan was laughing um you know before because I had I was doing my trump my trump impression this is laughter nonone dependent on a trump impression non- dependent on anything it's just I call it intentional laughter and it's helped it's helped and check out I'll do some things probably in a week I'll start my intentional laughter things here on this show I I still do some meditation because that's helped me helped me a lot help me a lot calm down about everything that's come down the pike you know my Yogi say hey stop watching the news you want to feel happy stop watching the news but these news meditations have also helped me so anyway meditation is help news meditation story meditation loving kindness sending it out to you out there and then because it comes back twofold three-fold fourfold and so as I wish for me I wish for you may you be safe may you be happy may you be healthy healthy and may you live with ease Emil goo here catch us on YouTube at Amil amuk One X Amil amuk FB Facebook at amo. Media or my name Emil goo have a great weekend till next time Mahal get and you found us hi everyone it's Emil it's Emil GMO auk to you thank you for catching us here on my my takeout my Emil auk takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes on all things considerable uh this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well H and with Ishmael I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still factchecking we're going to try to fact check Washington Post did a big fact check trying to say who lied try to see what was said because you know it's hard to to it really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he won in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse than being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lomer yesterday with ishmail ishma I hadn't heard of Lisa L but Lisa lumer was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday KLA Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's going to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not the ating because you know just like the prize fighters who ask for a rematch they're the losers and he's not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so any that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the Harvard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high some were were down you know affirmative action here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I see it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if your numbers are the same it means man affirmative action was doing its job he was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and my take it's on the ALF Blog the Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed it they bought it they played to their self-interest and in doing so they got rid of one of the best tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down down to every form of admissions or every form of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to achieve all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they played to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrifice all that for their for their just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discriminated no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect scores and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are they comp oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone we're left with this colorblind BS where we don't know where we are the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzalez in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well [Music] so here he is Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend Professor College of ethnic studies San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the asian-americans who were duped and put out there as the perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down a system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now are inconclusive well uh yeah the all they did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stayed the same at 37 yeah yeah but and and so constitute we constitute less than 6% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admissions that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher it would be in the 40s 43% depends on who yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's what that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of equity to Prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is just as bad because the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because say exactly because if there was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah and and uh that's interesting right that it's that it's steady I I I've always questioned why people are so uh interested right at at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say highly a culturist and a simulationist value yeah it it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to Harvard because ishmail Reed said the same thing he like what's the big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is Harvard is the Louis Vuitton of schools and and and and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids to go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're into the the the designer education but you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the guy from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejected and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents were saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have the now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have a new one allegedly color blind well that's the thing how how how color blind and you know one of the things about you can't uh what's happening uh because wh have the option not to say their race or people have their option not to say their race so and Harvard didn't even release the official whites you know number how many whites in the population that's right yeah so they only listed yeah yeah so you can't you can't really tell Asian others yeah Asians were 37 blacks were at eight were were were at 18 now 14 18 and that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many questions that people really aren't uh inclin Ed to deal with that have a lot more to do with uh you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any school uh elite school because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard Bearer that you know that that was used that say Hey look we'll use because if we go to if you if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding every one that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess uh you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it rep it epitomizes uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness okay so but then then the question is as a practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cache when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivy league Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a master's and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there was a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then go on for the Masters and so even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to Accidental yeah and then he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he he still was at Princeton right for for the undergound oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shopping well certain members of the Marcos family would be very disappointed in your attitude about oh that's right they they like princing well I'm just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PHD that's right but those of us who went to the college we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is the we we are that is the cradle that is the Cradle of the well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no college at all right well yeah it makes it makes the Mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago I wasn't able to be on last week but uh um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States in the uh in the Republican party right of South Asian descent yeah two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she still has a significant you know uh cash you're talking about Nikki Haley you're talking about Nikki Haley yeah yeah Niki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh Lobby business now well for now for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's where that's where we are and I and I know uh a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and uh thought that the cache would get them in and around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no and they were really disappointed you know some of them were in business related areas or were in you know business um and and I and I told them when they left the city uh the only thing that's worthwhile in business is is only two things one of them is getting a masters in bisad bad right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if you're not an accounting major in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you know I don't care if you went to Harvard yeah well here they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was uh racial uh discrimination um you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher aded level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfish re or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own meritocracy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare hand it's just equity and fairness you know an equal Shake as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's okay if we're GNA go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my class is can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job J or um at a an institution uh on the west coast which has a substantial uh Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimination and therefore uh find uh a need to at least uh study the the law and their rights you know and and assert them uh at the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the employ you know at HR right at the human resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's already happened there there are already institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top asian-americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who studied this thing they they warned the selfish Asians to say we don't you know we we we have straight A we can get in we we we can rely on meritocracy we don't need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not higher ed not you know post post post it you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asian-americans are about the same exactly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asians with 4.0 getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess we can't claim discrimination because there's no race I guess by being against affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is yeah it's done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so you were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that uh race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asians you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would rely on my my knowledge because good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with a four you know 4.0 and you know going on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not and this is this is why in my column on the ALF blog a df.org Blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the forsight to understand that you were being used and this is going to backfire and it's gonna you're going to Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything has come down for everyone not just yeah it's it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color they're in favor of others okay and and the implication is their discrimination against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting quite racist superiority oh yeah oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the bone because they you you just said they're adopting racist views about they're they're adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they're adopting this is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test score Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about it's they want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimacy that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments uh some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familial uh Legacy yes exactly familial Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football what I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of affirmative action but the was would they extend that Legacy to my son or daugh you know my my right right right and they could have to say hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law scho the business school but we'll bring him into the college uh they didn't they rejected him my my my son went to UC UC Berkeley well wow what a sad story yeah exactly see that's the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah Hammer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get Harvard so a lot of them got into Stanford or or they got into UC oh tough right yeah I I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right we are not going to look favorably on the asian-americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what are and they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is we don't know that yeah we don't know because because the the percentage of the class for the blacks the Asians and Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and he successful use of the Asians he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white representation right that failed that failed miserably yeah you know you just don't know to what extent it failed right proven is that they're people of color who qualify yeah you know so yeah that was always the fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than they thought affirmative AC for whites is not easy not an easy thing well people don't even think about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank yeah right and and and other obviously you know Hanks Shen you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint in the United States I said well let me check it out and so I go and look at see what their staff look like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an MBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as tokens you know well that's that's it you know 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we Dan where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know uh I was getting A's in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded in taking the word equity and substituting it for the n-word that's essentially what they've done the nword yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an in oh I see I see and yet see this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deep six everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for everybody and and there there were Asian-American civil rights groups saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for everyone yep for being selfish all right let's Let's uh let's move on let's swish [Music] out got my Swisher working Dan let let's go back to top topic a is still oh the debate still the debate all right so what debate we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column alde blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund Alf a df.org Blog and I said I I was hesitant to say that Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that KLA Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she wasn't as good as I'd hoped she was on some specific thing she relied too much on I'm I'm I'm G get I'm gonna give small businesses $50,000 I mean she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I did age I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not Total Domination but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did did she was it Total Domination was it a well it may be a shock to you but I have complete agreement with you oh well yeah see I'm I'm a moderate I'm a moderate next next topic I uh I'm complete agreement with you I was somewhat disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of couple of opportunities in particular and um one of them was uh you know you hate to go Toe to Toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the Border Zar stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and uh you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct she could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but there you go exactly but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of hers that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartisan deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair some I thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump will you comment on the border the Border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that's sort of a gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do that that's terrible though right I mean people go it's terrible that that that the general public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but it's a it's about the slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the Border issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and catch which is a slur which is it is it is intentionally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist there you go it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yes I I would say I would say definitely I was but but and I thought you were gonna say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs do me because first of all it was cat cat cat meat which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in the 80s and they ate lion so I guess technically I had CAD uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the purported well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of other Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians who yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also e they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know uh are you gonna eat that just it was a standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh you know eat eat everything before you die was titled from one of his books yeah well but you know D this is the standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and you know Asians should have felt that right to the Core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic it's racist but it works amongst some whites today still uh some some well but you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know it resonate with some but not all do you think all no I don't I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of racist Notions right yeah some level so it's a question of degree and and and most people would readily deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that that I might at least that you know yeah at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you gotta cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it oh my God it's still happening today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and yeah it's already been it's been debunked but geese the geese they had I saw a picture online though a guy car but but you know they had this this one woman Laura lumer oh man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when margerie Taylor green this way in no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than margorie Taylor green I mean it really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lumer up to this to make Marjorie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else I I think that's where this is going when comparison you know comparison she she might that but that might not be good for for her reelection I mean she's in she's in the lower house man she got to run every two years so she's up yeah but right now and that might that might lessen her cache man her value in her in her home constitu I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lumer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote Marg all right so you're realizing we're starting to sound real Radical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate rightwing vote moderate right know I liked your earlier statement better hey look I just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas tribun festival and uh it is you know predictably a kind of a sort of a moderate left kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro was there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump um and he's the guy you know who you know Carl Rove Le Atwater all those people put yeah put Bush's put Bush on the on the map in terms of you know how he he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah Dad was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of light yeah right so you know that that kind of moderates him a little bit but you know well he also well he was critical if people um uh uh endangering the lives of Muslims after 911 you know came there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at the the tribing Fest and the thing about it is that they were all kamla Harris supporters they were all never trumpers Lincoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're a Filipino yeah we talked a you have a major interest in the area around the former uh Naval Base yeah but but I just you know uh I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans yeah you were saying that they were all never trumpers and yeah Pro haris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has gotten a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a [Laughter] way oh that hurt well I'm just saying not not in terms of Poli I mean you know he's the new he's the new that you really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you know he's uh he's uh not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist and misogynist as hell yeah and you know what with more I mean I say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding mental health she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that she either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can agree with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what does it say about American politics now you see after the debate more Republicans join the think there's gonna be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterm terms after after November you know like in in 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve a significant amount of what they State their agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system um and and put more judges out there uh that's what they need to do uh you know the Republicans blame the Democrats for all the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah right we don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they wna they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services uh but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right post Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything government does is all socialist and they're saying that again you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell Marx uh has been saying he call you she's a Marxist you know grouo Marxist or so no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government uh the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know except existing companies who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh they're targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them green I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things are ridiculously complex so I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes to your point about government is so complex getting grants of the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive and so that people can really access things like if someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumers anyway uh you you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad well Wildfire uh season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who was burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that might be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh looney bin Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida and now Senator you know denying that there's any kind of climate change in all the rest of that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is gonna flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for him okay so they they're going to have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh Inland mid mid Peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're going to pay a price and see this is the thing about people when they people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they dare me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I celled a couple of friends of mine that owned property uh around the Russian River uh you know you got it I don't know I don't know you should be holding on to that this is the thing that you know community outreach uh they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfortunately especially local press which is really what matters yeah press ethnic press and what scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this is this is the thing about KLA Harris and the the debate on U on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and you said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high inflation is and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or mortgage rates or who's gonna you know make my gas gas prices lower who's going to lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's the liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers and hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure sure I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows the the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when yeah coming up I think uh yeah yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah and so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed yeah and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he wouldn't go for another debate yeah well he's saying he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Waltz campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like uh Kamala porn or something you know Oh you mean like uh you know sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you she says that you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a star they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I think on the right on his the Trumper side I think he was helped by it well let's I think a lot of guys of especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're gonna vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about man of color and KLA Harris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump in larger numbers than people would think well what's going I am not I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and who are voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an African-American psychologist okay PhD Psychology uh longterm uh uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and uh she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something you know so anyway uh Laura head is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross loss and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and her students uh were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and I you know you you lose track after a few years who specifically was in your class but but uh Linda was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic mentor to these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who's a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more you know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in African studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hip-hop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when uh women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of African-American men and a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean that they're not talking about her policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman hey I've had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buying into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know I mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said what the hell what the hell difference does that make what difference did it make that Obama has was half white actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said in Naj well sometime is she black I just want you know yeah you know it the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the stations but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a c it was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their par uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had an African-American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call a Lighty you know he was you know moderately light-skinned and um and and younger maybe even only in his 20s you know like right out of college um and he they both were trumpers and they both and they both said well you know I haven't heard enough from either of them and then they were asked Point Blank right well are you gonna is there any chance that you would vote for for how you know for Kamala and one guy said no outright I'm a conservative you know I wouldn't do that and the other one said uh no I'm definitely leaning Trump so w had no effect on these two guys and they were within the age range that we're talking about right now yeah I just don't I just don't see that I you know he it's man of see it or you can't believe it I well I just I have a hard time believing that okay that's happening but also look it's men of color plus white women because I see the the focus groups that have white women saying oh well she sounds nice she sounds smart but I I think Donald Trump has far more experience oh yeah experience with melies I mean I there a lot of things I don't get all right you know what that is okay underlying all of this stuff at the root of everything is race oh yeah of course at the root of everything is race and so yeah and then and then when you move over to men of color and trying to explain their problem okay underlying everything is misogyny and it it's it saddens me to be able to say that but I have to say that based on my own experience observation and also in terms of academic data yeah well racism and misogyny whenever you have an Asian-American African-American woman for the first time running for president you will have aspects of racism and misogyny and it's too bad it's too bad us what you're saying is you're having a difficult time accepting that um men of color particularly Latinos and African-Americans yeah subscribe to those values I I do have a hard time because it's it's against their self-interest well but there's people who vote against their self-interest all the time there's people who drive against their self-interest there people who make left turns left turns in front of me with no signal right yeah look we just talked we just talked about affirmative action too so yeah people people work against yeah but affirmative action is a little deeper and and and the people all when they make erroneous uh decisions like that okay anti-affirmative action it's because they're accepting the shallow definition of the circumstances they're not they're not they're not seeing all of the permutations all of the facts that are involved in that process you know the general perspective on affirmative action has always been that people are using race and race only to their advantage and that's the only reason that people are getting voted in or chosen for admissions or hired is because of race and and and that is not a qualifying Factor they feel that the persons are not qualified otherwise that they would never have been chosen if they were not uh uh a person of color or if they were not a person of color or a woman yeah okay and this lgbtqq so right that's what they do so you you except for those categories of Suspicion right that's what they're called in the court is a suspect category if you're not in one of those suspect categories right uh then then people don't assume that you're incompetent but if you are from one of those suspect categories and you have a freaking job right that that you know they'll say well you know they got that job because uh they got we saw an extremely ENT woman Asian-American African-American woman TRS a white former president she is a Dei hire in all its full-blown Glory she was better than a white man that that's what we can say that's what we can say she performed better than that particular white man I would hate to hold all white men to that standard well you know and the fact is Donald Trump is there because he has benefited from a kind of white privilege and white affirmative action whites wanted him to carry their mantle you know you wanted him as their standard Bearer and look where it's getting them I think in the end it's going to be the wrong choice for a guy to be present a second time around so yeah okay yeah but if he if he is elected and he gets that second time around uh we will all be visited by by the we will all be vulnerable to that comes from that well I think people better pay attention because uh you know Donald Trump If he if he wins I don't think he'll have any qualms or any hesitation to do all the things that he says he wants to do you know the dictatorship on day one yeah when he's rallying when he's doing his rally speeches yeah don't have any I I I think so too and it's going to be interesting I mean if he wins I'd be really interested in seeing how the people who thought they could control him the first time around right oh they're not there they're he's talking to Laura lumer he's there the people the people trying to help him out aren't there hey look in the time remaining let's look at some of the facts that the key facts on the on the economic front people thinking about inflation he said a lot of things about uh inflation and the tariffs first the tariffs yeah tariffs tariffs are not paid for by a foreign company tars are paid for by the consumer The Bu The prodct ultimately the consumer it's it's paid for actually by the Importer which and the costs are passed on to the consumer Trump may deny it's a sales tax but those costs are going to be passed on to the consumer and the they already are they already are we already are suffering consequences of that one of them is that when it comes to electric cars the the better electric cars are are being made right now in in in not only South Korea and Japan but also in China right China big time and even India is starting to get into the act and there are tariffs against all of them because they they are able to sell here much more cheaply than americanmade electric car and more dependable right people just need to know that the way tariffs Works work Donald Trump doesn't understand tariffs he doesn't understand tariffs when he says that he's gonna make China pay I think he does I think he does I think he does and I think he's just willing to lie his ass off I mean I think he you know that is so simplistic it is so stupid right and he keeps bragging about Wharton Wharton Wharton you know I went to business school Wharton Wharton Wharton hey one of the first things you learn is about tariffs yeah and no one at Wharton says that uh there's a professor at Wharton said I don't know anyone here at Warden who backs Donald Trump so there it is yeah so all right now he also said he said Donald Trump said I had no I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation I had no inflation virtually virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation they the Biden Harris had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worst period of time and and the Washington Post fact checked and said Biden did not have the highest inflation in US history yeah inflation spiked to 9% mid 2022 y but it was as high as 13.3% in 1979 right and oh actually 13.3% yeah in 1979 12.5% in 1980 and it was 18.1 present in 1946 and so he that was because the war ended the war stopped right you know production production stopped uh unemployment skyrocketed right all the rest of that so yeah uh okay so there that is um also one of the yeah well from let's do some more of the fact check CLE so the the two the two key ones are uh the tariffs and inflation because people are you know they're bothered by inflation at inflation which right now currently is at 2.5% and we're probably going to get uh some kind of uh help from the FED when they lower rates when they lower interest rates and that's going to lower rates on credit cards and car interest yeah but I I think they're only going to move by a quarter this time I was hoping for half half a point but I think they're only going to move by about a quarter it's not going to be the big one but it's it's gonna help you know oh yeah inflation all right here's here's another thing Trump said he said we have we have millions of people pouring into our country from prisons and jails from mental and insane asylums I mean where does he get that right I mean this is another xenophobia the same place he got his poll polling statistics yeah this is anti-immigrant uh the the post called it poppycock there is no way that they're coming out of any of those places and the number uh the number let's see uh a research associate for institute for crime and Justice policy research in Britain says the number let's see says in 2013 10.2 million people were in prison globally and that had grown to 10.77% but most people disagree with what Trump said that they're coming out of you know jails and asylums okay now let's see I I guess you know those are the big things if people should go to I mean we we've debunked the the dog and cat Springfield Ohio story that was debunked well before he even repeated them people are still people are still repeating it and they're still looking for pictures and you know they're doing you know the um I don't know they they didn't even get into education or any of that stuff oh they didn't get into education and there was only one line where they got into lgbtq issues when they talked about some guy going into a bathroom and getting an operation which is like in the bathroom yeah yeah was that surgeon in this what yeah there's just a lot of baloney there I can't see anyone voting for Trump but you know uh we're dealing with the United States so um it's going to be close it's going to be a close uh election well that's what that's the scary part and that's the part that I always tell people who get engage in conversations with me including my neighbors I said you know I you know even if Trump loses you know he's not going to go away unless he leaves the country because he doesn't want to go to jail you know but he well that's gonna be it yeah but but but his people won't go away they're gonna be here and when you see close to 50% of all of the voters in the United States uh willing to support a guy like that they're not going to go away that their their values and the things that that uh uh motivate them to vote for people like this are are clearly indications of how they think yeah and and and they're going to be there and they always have been there that's what I keep trying to tell my students yeah look at the history if you look at the history that element of of racist nationalism has always been there and Trump just gave him a reason to come out unfortunately and and this is the bad thing because when I was at that uh that this thing in Texas I I don't think I ever met so many Republicans that I liked that was a in in in my experience there are so many nice Republicans I said GE I hope this is a trend I hope this is a trend because we're talking to each other and maybe we can come up with policy that makes sense I hope if if Harris wins there is that sense because people will realize she's not some she's not comrade kamla she's not a Marxist she is a Centrist and we have a shot at creating a government that can work for everyone well that was that was the knock that she took from progressives and and liberals oh yeah yeah she was she they saw her as a right winger just by being a DA yeah you know you know and I know that's the case there's a lot of people on the the left and the extreme left who look at KLA Harrison and say oh no thank you oh no thankk you and and you know and people in the extreme right who say oh no thank you oh no thank you and really it's it's the people in the middle who say yeah you know KLA she deserves a shot she she she can do it but let's see how close Hey listen Dan uh thanks for being with me uh talking about this thanks for having me thanks for having me it's pleasure being back yeah and we we'll talk again soon uh I I I don't know what's going to happen that we'll follow the campaign will follow I mean North Carolina looks like they're they're moving toward KLA uh you got Wisconsin I guess Pennsylvania will still be very critical um Nevada Nevada is G wiconsin and Michigan look like they're moving in her Direction definitely but but you know it's just polls yeah we'll see more Nevada I I'm with you I think Nevada and Arizona are gonna really be significant well if if you if you need pad and someone there someone's going to need pad yeah they're going to need it all but I think what with the debate if any I mean I I said this after I saw her speak at the DNC that if anyone had any doubts but this was like 67 million people watching this and all people not just Democrats it was Republicans too if they saw this they know now that KLA Harris is more than capable more than qualified and what scared me a little bit over the last three years is how everyone had such a jaundice view of KLA Harris all the the the you know the mainstream press when when there was a big takeout in one of the papers the New York Times Washington Post you name it they would always approach the profile as if ah we don't know about this Comm oh there's something something I never I I had some my issues with her but I was not as skeptical as a Washington press Corp and well your issues were real issues you know in other words there were things that she did that that you either found uh contributed to a more just Society or that you found uh were likely to cause a greater amount of Injustice that you know that's when you're looking at at a DA or an attorney general that's generally what you're looking at right yeah and so your criticisms of her were legitimate criticisms just as my points uh of reminders to you that she did some good things about youth uh uh uh you know you she wasn't quite an advocate but she definitely started up programs um that were more likely to uh keep youth away from uh adult prisons and more likely instead to give them Alternatives right to to CRI well here's the thing that you learn about people's past you know they're not perfect right they might might go this way on one issue and the other way on another issue that's right in the end uh she's running today against Donald Trump and compared to Donald Trump KL Harris looks like uh like she's Heaven Sent right compared to Donald's Donald Trump and I I think people are gonna have to make up their own minds uh and not rely on Taylor Swift unfortunately but yeah what can I say and not rely on uh Beyonce or Jay-Z or I know wuang have you know I discovered wuang Clan recently yeah you know do you know cool you know D wuang Clan Ain't Nothing To with that's nothing with they're my favorite Asian-American rap [Laughter] group I I know they're not I they're from Brooklyn they're from qu yeah I know I know all right Dan hey thanks uh stick around we'll talk uh but there but there he goes Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend College of ethnic studies Asian-American studies San Francisco State University far more radical than I am which is why I like to bring them in you know usually on Fridays so I can tell if my my barometer is still working yeah I'm a little more to the center a little more to the center hey check out my columns on the alff blog a df.org Blog you know I'm I'm moving the column the column's going to go somewhere else here here if you want to play this game with me should where should I move it to substack or move it to patreon uh just go to your the form here just or go to am.com and say Emil you should go here or Emil you should just shut up no one cares about you or you know just tell me because uh I won't be at alev um for for much longer but let me know let me know you can cast my columns there now my back columns at AAL df.org blog and um let's see what else are we doing oh you know I have discovered something I have discovered intentional laughter and it's helped me a lot just laughing on purpose not because I said something funny like you know Dan was laughing um you know before because I had I was doing my trump my trump impression this is laughter nonone dependent on a trump impression non- dependent on anything it's just I call it intentional laughter and it's helped it's helped and check out I'll do some things probably in a week week I'll start my intentional after things here on this show I I still do some meditation because that's helped me I helped me a lot help me a lot calm down about everything that's come down the pike you know my Yogi say hey stop watching the news you want to feel happy stop watching the news but these news meditations have also helped me so anyway meditation is help news meditation story meditation loving kindness sending it out to you out there and then because it comes back twofold three-fold fourfold and so as I wish for me I wish for you may you be safe may you be happy may you be healthy and may you live with ease Emil goo here catch us on YouTube at Emil amuk One X Amil amuk FB Facebook at ammo. Media or my name Emil GMO have a great weekend till next time Mahal and you found us hi everyone it's Emil it's Emil GMO auk to you thank you for catching us here on my my takeout my Emil amuk takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes on all things considerable uh this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well and with Ishmael I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still factchecking we're going to try to fact check Washington Post did a big fact check trying to say who lied try to see what was said because you know it's hard to to it really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he won in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse than being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lomer yesterday with ishmail ishma I hadn't heard of Lisa L but Lisa lumer was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday KLA Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's going to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not debating because you know just like the prize fighters who ask for a rematch they're the losers and he's not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so any that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the Harvard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released them we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high some were or down you know affirmative action here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I see it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if your numbers are the same it means man affirmative action was doing its job was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and my take it's on the alde blog the Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed it they bought it they played to their self-interest and in doing so they got rid of one of the best tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down to every form of admissions or every form of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to achieve all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they played to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrifice all that for their for their just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discriminated no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect scores and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are they comp oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone and we're left with this colorblind BS where we don't know where we are the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzalez in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well [Music] so here he is Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend Professor College of ethnic studies San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the asian-americans who were duped and put out there as the perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down a system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now are in conclusive well uh yeah the all the did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stayed the same at 37 yeah yeah but and but we only constitute we constitute less than six% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admissions that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher it would be in the 40s 43% depends on who yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's what I that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of equity to Prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians who were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is just as bad because the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because say exactly because if there was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah and and uh that's interesting right that it's that it's steady I I I've always questioned why people are so uh interested right at at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say highly a culturist and assimilationist value yeah it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to Harvard because ishmail Reed said the same thing he's like what's a big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is Harvard is the Louis Vuitton of schools and and and and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids to go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're into the the the designer education but you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the guy from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejected and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race-based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents were saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have a new one allegedly color blind well that's the thing how how how color blind and you know one of the things about you can't tell uh what's happening uh because whites have the option not to say their race or people have their option not to say their race so and Harvard didn't even release the official whites you know number how many whites in the population that's right yeah so the only listed yeah yeah so you can't you can't really tell Asian others yeah Asians were 37 blacks were at eight were were were at 18 now 14 18 and that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many questions that people really aren't uh inclined to deal with that have a lot more to do with uh you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any school uh elite school because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard Bearer that you know that that was used that say Hey look we'll use har because if we go to if you if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding everyone that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess uh you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it rep it epitomizes uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness okay so but then then the question is as a practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cache when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivu League Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a master's and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there was a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then go on for the Masters and so look but even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to Accidental yeah and then he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he he still was at Princeton right for for the under oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shopping well certain members of the Marco's family would be very disappointed in your attitude about oh that's right they they like princ well just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PHD that's right but those of us who went to the college we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is the we we that is the cradle that is the Cradle of the well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no college at all right well yeah it makes it makes the Mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago I wasn't able to be on last week but uh um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States um in the uh in the Republican party right of South Asian descent yeah two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she still has a significant you know uh cach you're talking about Nikki Haley you're talking about Nikki Haley yeah yeah Nicki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh lobbying business now well she's for now for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's what that's where we are and I and I know a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and uh thought that the cachet would get them in and around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no and they were really disappointed you know some of them were in business related areas or we're in you know business um and and I and I told them when they left the city uh the only thing that's worthwhile in business is is only two things and one of them is getting a masters in bad bad right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if you're not an accounting major in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you know I don't care if you went to Harvard yeah well here they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was uh racial uh discrimination um you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher aded level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfish re or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own meritocracy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare handout it's just equity and fairness you know an equal Shake as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's okay if we're going to go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my class is can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job or um at a an institution uh on the west coast which has a substan Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimination and therefore uh find uh a need to at least uh study the law and their rights you know and and and assert them uh at the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the emplo you know at HR right at the human resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's already happened there there are already institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top asian-americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh yeah people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who studi this thing they they warned the selfish Asians to say we don't you know we we we have straight A's we can get in we we we can rely on meritocracy we don't need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not higher ed not you know post post uh post it you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asian-americans are about the same exactly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asians with 4.0 getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess we can't claim discrimination because there's no race I guess by being against air affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is yeah is done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so you were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that uh race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they're they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asians you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would rely on my my knowledge because I'm so good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with a four you know 4.0 and you know going on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not and this is this is why in my column on the aliff blog a df.org Blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the foresight to understand that you are being used and this is going to backfire and it's going to you're going to Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything has come down for everyone not yeah it's it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color they're in favor of others okay and and the implication is they're discrimin against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting white racist superiority oh yeah oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the point because they you you just said they're adopting racist views about they're they're adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they're adopting this is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test score Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about they you want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimacy that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments uh some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familial uh Legacy yes exactly familial Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football but I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of affirmative action but the T was would they extend that Legacy to my son or daugh you know my my right right and they could have to say hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law school or the business school but we'll bring him into the college uh they didn't they rejected and my my my son went to UC UC Berkeley well wow what a sad story yeah exactly see that's the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah hmer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get into Harvard a lot of them got into Stanford or or they got into UC oh tough right yeah I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right they are not going to look favorably on the asian-americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what and they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is we don't know that yeah we don't know because because the the percentage of the class for the blacks the Asians and the Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and successful use of the Asians he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white representation right that failed that failed miserably yeah you know I we just don't know to what extent it failed right being proven is that they're people of color who qualify yeah you know so yeah that was always a fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than they thought affirmative action for whites is not easy not an easy thing well people don't even think about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank yeah right and and and other obviously you know Hank Shang you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint in the United States I said well let me check it out and so i' go and look at see what their staff looked like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an NBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as tokens you know well that's that's it you know 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we Dan where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know I was getting A's in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh well so where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded in taking the word equity and substituting it for the end N word that's essentially what they've done the nword yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an in oh I see I see and yet see this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deep sixed everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for everybody and and there there were Asian-American civil rights groups saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for everyone yep for being selfish all right let's uh let's move on let's swish out got my swisser working Dan let let's go back to top topic a is s oh the debate still the debate all right so what debate we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column Alf blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund alde df.org blog and I said I I was hesitant to say that KLA Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that KLA Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she wasn't as good as I she was on some specific thing she relied too much on I'm I'm I'm G get I'm G to give small businesses $50,000 I mean she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I didn't agree I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not total Domin but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did you did she was it Total Domination was it a well it may be a shock to you but I have complete agreement with you oh well yeah you see I'm I'm a moderate I'm a moderate next next topic I I uh I'm complete agreement with you I was somewhat disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of couple of opportunities in particular and U one of them was uh you know you hate to go Toe to Toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the bordar stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and uh you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct she could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but there you go exactly but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of hers that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartisan deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair some I thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump will you comment on the border the Border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that's sort of a gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do that that's terrible though right I mean people go it's terrible that that that the general public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but it's a it's about the slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the Border issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and cats which is a slur which is it is it is intentionally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist and it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yes I I would say I would say definitely I was but but and I thought you were gonna say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs dog me because first of all it was cat cat cat meat which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in the 80s and they ate lion so I guess technically I had CAD uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the purported well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of othera Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians who yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also e they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know are you gonna eat that you just it was a standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh you know eat everything before you die was titled from one of his books yeah well but you know D this is the standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and you know Asians should have felt that right to the core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic it's racist but it works among some whites today still uh some some well you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know it would resonate with some but not all do you think all no I don't I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of racist Notions right some level it's so it's a question of degree and and and most people would readily deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that that I might at least that you know yeah at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you gotta cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it my God it's happening today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and yeah it's already been it's been debunked but the geese the geese they had I saw a picture online though a guy caring a goose but but you know they had this this one woman Laura lumer has oh man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when margerie Taylor green this no way in no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than margorie Taylor green I mean it really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lumer up to this to make margorie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else say I I think that's where this is going when by comparison comparison she she might that but that might not be good for for her reelection I mean she's in she's in the lower house man she got to run every two years so she's up she up right now and that might that might lessen her cache man her value in her in her home constituent I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lomer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote over Mar all right so you're realizing we're starting to sound real Radical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate rightwing vote moderate right no I liked your earlier statement better hey look I just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas tribun festival and it is you know predictably a kind of a sort of a moderate kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro was there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump um and he's the guy you know who you know Carl Ro Le Atwater all those people put Bush's brain yeah put Bush's put Bush on the on the map in terms of you know how he he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah well Dad was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of white yeah right so you know that that kind of moderates him a little bit but you know well he also well he was critical of people um uh uh endangering the lives of Muslims after 911 you know there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at U the tribing Fest and the thing about it is that they were all kamla haris supporters they were all never trumpers linkoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're a Filipino yeah and we talked a little you have a major interest in the area around the former uh base yeah but but I just you know uh I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans you were saying that they were all never trumpers and yeah Pro Harris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has gotten a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a [Laughter] way oh oh that hurt well I'm just saying not not in terms of Poli I mean you know he's the new he's the new that really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you know he's uh he's uh not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist and misogynist as hell yeah and you know what more I mean I'll say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding mental health she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that she either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can agree with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what is does it say about American politics now you after the debate more Republicans join think there's G to be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterms after after November you know like in in 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve a significant amount of what they State their agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system um and and put more judges out there uh that's what they need to do uh you know the Republicans blame the Democrats for all of the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah we don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they wantan to they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services uh but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right post Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything the government does is all socialist and they're saying that again there you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell Marx uh has been saying he calls you she's a Marxist you know a grouo Marxist or no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government uh the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know except existing companies who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh their targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them Greener I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things are ridiculously complex so I I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes to your point about government is so complex getting grants of the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive and so that people can really access things like if someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumers anyway uh you you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad well Wildfire uh season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who's burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that may be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh Looney bins Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida and now Senator you know denying that there's any kind of climate change and all the rest that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is going to flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for him okay so they they're going to have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh Inland mid mid Peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're going to pay a price see this is the thing about when they people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they dare me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I counseled a couple of friends of mine that owned property uh around the River uh you know you got it I don't know I don't know you should be holding on to that this is the thing that I you know community outreach um they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfortunately especially local press which is really what matters yeah local press ethnic press and what scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this is this is the thing about KLA Harris and the the debate on U on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and you said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high inflation is and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or mortgage rates or going to you know make my gas gas prices lower who's going to lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's a liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers and hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure sure I I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows the the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when yeah coming up I think uh yeah yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed yeah and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he would go for another debate yeah well he's saying he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Waltz campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like uh Kamala porn or something you know Oh you mean like uh you know sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you know she says that you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a star they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I I think on the right on his the Trumper side I think he was helped by it well think a lot of guys especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're going to vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about man of color and comla Harris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump in larger numbers than people would think well what's going I am not I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and who voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an African-American psychologist okay PhD Psychology uh longterm uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and uh she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something you know so anyway uh Laura headed is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross loss and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and her students uh were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and I you know you you lose track after a few years who specifically was in your class but but uh Linda was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic mentor to these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who's a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more you know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in African studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hip-hop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when uh women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know uh that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of African-American men a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean they're not talking about her policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman hey I've had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buying into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know I mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said what the hell what the hell difference does that make what difference did it make that Obama has was half white actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said at Naj well sometime is she black I just want you know yeah you know it the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the stations but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a c yeah was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their panel uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh Young younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had an African-American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call a Lighty you know he was you know moderately light-skinned and um and and younger maybe even only in his 20s you know like right out of college um and he they both were trumpers and they both and they both said well you know I haven't heard enough from either of them and then they were ask Point Blank right well are you going to is there any chance that you would vote for for how you know for Kamala and one guy said no outright I'm a conservative you know I wouldn't do that and the other one said uh no I'm definitely leaning Trump so w had no effect on these two guys and they were within the age range that we're talking about right now yeah I just don't I just don't see that I you know he it's man of color or you can't believe it I well I just I have a hard time believing that that's happening but also look it's men of color plus white women because I see the the focus groups that have white women saying oh well she sounds nice she sounds smart but I I think Donald Trump has far more experience oh yeah experience with felies I mean I there a lot of things I don't get all right so you know what that is okay underlying all of this stuff at the root of everything is race oh yeah of course at the root of everything is race and so yeah and then and then when you move over to men of color and try to explain their problem okay underlying everything is misogyny and it it's it saddens me to be able to say that but I have to say that based on my own experience observation and also in terms of academic data yeah well racism and misogyny whenever you have an Asian-American African-American woman for the first time running for president you will have aspects of racism and misogyny and it's too bad it's too bad what you're saying is you're having a difficult time accepting that uh men of color particularly Latinos and African-Americans yeah um subscribe to those values I I do have a hard time because it's it's against their self-interest well but there's people who vote against their self-interest all the time there's people who drive against their self-interest there people who make left turns left turns in front of me with no signal right yeah look we just talked we just talked about affirmative action too so yeah people people work against yeah but affirmative action is a little deeper and and and the people all when they make erroneous uh decisions like that okay anti-affirmative action because they're accepting the shallow definition of the circumstances they're not they're not they're not seeing all of the permutations all of the facts that are involved in that process you know the general perspective on affirmative action has always been that people are using race and race only to their advantage and that's the only reason that people are getting voted in or chosen for admissions or hired is because of race and and it and that is not a qualifying Factor they feel that the persons are not qualified otherwise that they would never have been chosen if they were not uh uh a person of color or if they were not a person of color or a woman okay and this lgbtqq so right that's what they do so you you except for those categories of Suspicion right that's what they're called in the court is a suspect category if you're not in one of those suspect categories ories right uh then then people don't assume that you're incompetent but if you are from one of those suspect categories and you have a freaking job right that that you know they'll say well you know they got that job because uh how they got there well look we saw an extremely competent woman Asian-American African-American woman trouts a white former president she is a Dei hire in all its full-blown Glory she was better than a white man that that's what we can say that's what we can say she performed better than that particular white man I would hate to hold all white men to that standard well you know and the fact is Donald Trump is there because he has benefited from a kind of white privilege and white affirmative action whites wanted him to carry their mantle you know you wanted him as their standard Bearer and look where it's getting them I think in the end it's G to be the wrong choice for a guy to be present a second time around so yeah okay yeah but if he if he is elected and he gets that second time around uh we will all be visited by by the we will all be vulnerable to that comes from that well I think people better pay attention because uh you know Donald Trump If he if he wins I don't think he'll have any qualms or any hesitation to do all the things that he says he wants to do you know the dictatorship on day yeah when he's rallying when he's doing his rally speeches yeah I don't have any I I I think so too and it's going to be interesting I mean if he wins I'd be really interested in see seeing how the people who thought they could control him the first time around right no they're not there they're he's talking to Lura lumer he's there the people the people trying to help him out aren't there hey look in the time remaining let's look at some of the facts that're the key facts on the on the economic front people thinking about inflation he said a lot of things about uh inflation and the tariffs first the tariffs yeah tariffs tariffs are not paid for by a foreign company tars are paid for by the consumer the buys the prod ultimately the consumer it's it's paid for actually by the Importer which and the costs are passed on to the consumer Trump may deny it's a sales tax but those costs are going to be passed on to the consumer and the they already are they already are we already are suffering the consequences of that one of them is that when it comes to electric cars the the the better electric cars are are being made right now in in in not only South Korea and Japan but also in China right China big time and even India is starting to get into the act and there are tariffs against all of them because they they are able to sell here much more cheaply than americanmade electric cars and they're much more dependable right people just need to know that the way tariffs works work Donald Trump doesn't understand tariffs he doesn't understand tariffs when he says that he's GNA make China pay I think he does I think he does I think he does and I think he's just willing to lie his ass off I mean I think he you know that is so simplistic it is so stupid right and he keeps bragging about Wharton Wharton Wharton you know I went to business school Wharton Wharton Wharton hey one of the first things you learn is about tariffs yeah and knowing at Wharton says that uh there's a professor Wharton said I don't know anyone here at Wharton who backs Donald Trump so there it is yeah so all right now he also said he said Donald Trump said I had no I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation I had no inflation virtually virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation they the Biden Harris had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worst period of time and and the Washington Post fact check and said Biden did not have the highest inflation in US history yeah inflation spiked to 9% mid 2022 y but it was as high as 13.3% in 1979 right and oh actually 13.3% yeah in 1979 12.5% in 1980 and it was 18.1% in 1946 and so that was because the war ended the war stopped right you know and production production stopped uh unemployment skyrocketed right all the rest of that so yeah uh okay so there that is um also one of the yeah well from let's do some more of the fact check coule so the the two the two key ones are uh the tariffs and inflation because people are you know they're bothered by inflation uh inflation which right now currently is at 2.5% and we're probably going to get uh some kind of uh help from the FED when they lower rates when they lower interest rates and that's going to lower rates on credit cards and car interest yeah but I I think they're only going to move by a quarter this time I was hoping for half half a point but I think they're only going to move by about a quarter it's not going to be the big one but it's it's gonna help you know inflation all right here's here's another thing Trump said he said we have we have millions of people pouring into our country from prison and jails for mental and insane asylums I mean where does he get that right I mean this is another xenophobia same the same place he got his poll polling statistics yeah this is anti-immigrant uh the the post called it poppycock there is no way that they're coming out of any of those places and the number uh the number let's see uh a research associate for Institute for crime and Justice policy research in Britain says the number let's see says in 2013 10.2 million people were in prison globally and that had grown to 10.77% [Music] let's see I I guess you know those are the big things people should go to I mean we we debunk the the dog and cat Springfield Ohio story that was debunked well before he even repeated them people are still people are still repeating it and they're still looking for pictures and you know they're doing you know the um I don't know they they didn't even get into education or any of that stuff oh they didn't get an education and there was only one line where they got into lgbtq issues when they talked about some guy going into a bathroom and getting an operation which is like in the bathroom yeah yeah was that surgeon in this what yeah there's just a lot of baloney there I can't see anyone voting for Trump but you know uh we're dealing with the United States so um it's G to be close it's G to be a close uh election well that's what that's the scary part and that's the part that I always tell people who get engage in conversations with me including my neighbors I said you know I you even if Trump loses you know he's not going to go away unless he leaves the country because he doesn't want to go to jail you know but he well that's gonna be it yeah but but but his people won't go away they're gonna be here yeah and when you see close to 50% of all of the voters in the United States uh willing to support a guy like that they're not going to go away that their their values and the things that that uh uh motivate them to vote for people like this are are clearly indications of how they think yeah and and and they're going to be there and they always have been there that's what I keep trying to tell my students yeah look at the history if you look at the history that element of of racist nationalism has always been there and Trump just gave him a reason to come out unfortunately and and this is the bad thing because when I was at that uh that this thing in Texas I I don't think I ever met so many Republicans that I liked that was a in in in my experience there are so many nice Republicans I said g I hope this is a trend I hope this is a trend because we're talking to each other and maybe we can come up with policy that makes sense I hope if if Harris wins there is that sense because people will realize she's not some she's not comrade kamla she's not a Marxist she is a Centrist and we have a shot at creating a government that can work for everyone well that was that was the knock that she took from progressives and and liberals oh yeah yeah she was she they saw her as a right- Winger just by being a DA yeah you know and I know that's the case there's a lot of people on the the left and the extreme left who look at KLA Harris and say oh no thank you oh no thank you and and you know and people in the extreme right who say oh no thank you oh no thank you and really it's it's the people in the middle who say yeah you know K she deserves a shot she she she can do it but let's see how close Hey listen Dan uh thanks for being with me uh talking about this thanks for having me thanks for having me it's pleasure being back yeah and we we'll talk again soon uh I I I don't know what's G to happen that we'll follow the campaign we'll follow I mean North Carolina looks like they're they're moving toward kamla uh you got Wisconsin I guess Pennsylvania will still be very critical um Nevada Nevada and Michigan look like they're moving in her Direction definitely but but you know it's just polls yeah well we'll see more Nevada I'm with you I think Nevada and Arizona are gonna really be significant well if if you if you need pad and someone there someone's gonna need pad they're gonna they're gonna need it all but I think what with the debate if any I mean I I said this after I saw her speak at the DN see that if anyone had any doubts but this was like 67 million people watching this and all people not just Democrats it was Republicans too if they saw this they know now that kamla Harris is more than capable more than qualified and what scared me a little bit over the last three years is how everyone had such a jaundice view of kamla Harris all the the the you know the mainstream press when when there was a big takeout in one of the papers the New York Times Washington Post you name it they would always approach the profile as if ah we don't know about this Comm ER oh there's something something wrong I never I I had some my issues with her but I was not as skeptical as the Washington press Corp and well your issues were real issues you know in other words there were things that she did that that you either found found uh contributed to a more just Society or that you found uh were likely to cause a greater amount of Injustice that you know that's when you're looking at a at a DA or an attorney general that's generally what you're looking at right yeah and so your criticisms of her were legitimate criticisms just as my points uh of reminders to you that she did some good things about youth uh uh uh you know you she was isn't quite an advocate but she definitely started up programs um that were more likely to uh keep youth away from uh adult prisons and more likely instead to give them Alternatives right to to criminal well here's the thing that you learn about people's past you know they're not perfect right they might might go this way on one issue and the other way on another issue that's right in the end uh she's running today against Donald Trump and compared to Donald Trump KL Harris looks like uh like she's Heaven Sent right compared to Donald's Donald Trump and I I think people are gonna have to make up their own minds uh and not rely on Taylor Swift unfortunately but yeah what can I say and not rely on H Beyonce or Jay-Z or I know Wang you know I discovered wuang Clan recently yeah you know you co you know wuang Clan Ain't Nothing To with that's nothing with they're my favorite Asian-American rap [Laughter] group I I know they're not I they're from brookin they're from qu yeah I know I know all right Dan hey thanks uh stick around we'll talk uh but there but there he goes Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend College of ethnic studies Asian-American studies San Francisco State University far more radical than I am which is why I like to bring them in you know usually on Fridays so I can tell if my my barometer is still working yeah I'm a little more to the center a little more to the center hey check out my columns on the ALF blog a df.org Blog you know I'm I'm moving the column the column's going to go somewhere else here here if you want to play this game with me should where should I move it to substack or move it to patreon uh just go to your the form here just or go to am.com and say Emil you should go here or Emil you should just shut up no one cares about you or you know just tell me because uh I won't be at alde um for for much longer but let me know let me know you can cat my columns there now my back columns at AAL df.org blog and um let's see what else are we doing oh you know I have discovered something I have discovered intentional laughter and it's helped me a lot just laughing on purpose not because I said something funny like you know Dan was laughing uh you know before because I had I was doing my trump my trump impression this is laughter non dependent on a trump impression non-dependent on anything it's just I call it intentional laughter and it's helped it's helped and check out I'll do some things probably in a week I'll start my intentional laughter things here on this show I I still do some meditation because that's helped me I helped me a lot help me a lot calm down about everything that's come down the pike you know my Yogi say hey stop watching the news you want to feel happy stop watching the news but these news meditations have also helped me so anyway meditation is help news meditation story meditation loving kindness sending it out to you out there and then because it comes back twofold three-fold fourfold and so as I wish for me I wish for you may you be safe may you be happy may you be healthy and may you live with these Emil GMO here catch us on YouTube at Amil among One X at Amil amok FB Facebook at amo. media or my name Emil goo have a great weekend till next time Mahal and you found us hi everyone it's Emil it's Emil GMO Emil I'm up to you thank you for catching us here on my my take out my Emil amuk takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes on all things considerable uh this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well H and with ishmail I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still factchecking we're going to try to fact check Washington Post did a big fact check trying to say who lied trying to see what was said because you know it's hard to to it really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he won in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse than being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lomer yesterday with with ishmail ishmail I hadn't heard of Lisa but Lisa lomer was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday K Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's going to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not debating because you know just like the prize fighters who ask for a rematch they're the losers and he's not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so any that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the hard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released them we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high some were were down you know affirmative action uh here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I see it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if your numbers are the same it means man affirmative action was doing its job it was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and my take it's on the alde blog the Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed it they bought it they played to their self-interest and in do doing so they got rid of one of the best tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down to every form of admissions or every form of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to achieve all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they play to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrific all that for their for their just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discri no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect scores and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are they oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone and we're left with this color blind BS where we don't know where we are the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzalez in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well [Music] so here he is Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend Professor College of ethnic studies San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the Asian Americans who were duped and put out there as the perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down a system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now are in conclusive well uh yeah the all they did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stayed the same at 37 yeah yeah but and but we only constitute we constitute less than 6% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admission that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher it would be in the 40s 43% depends on who yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's what I that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of equity to Prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is just as bad because the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because say exactly because if there was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah and and uh that's interesting right it's that it's steady I I I've always questioned why people are so uh interested right at at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say uh highly a culturist and assimilationist value yeah it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to Harvard because ishmail Reed said the same thing he's like what's a big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is Harvard is the Louis Vuitton of schools and and I and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids to go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they had they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're in to the the the designer education but you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the guy from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's uh the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejected and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race-based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents we saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have a new one allegedly color blind well that's the thing how how how color blind and you know one of the things about you can't tell uh what's happening uh because whites have the option not to save their race or people have their option not to say their race so and Harvard didn't even release the official White you know number how many whites in the population that's right yeah so they only listed yeah yeah so you can't you can't really tell Asians others yeah Asians were 37 blacks were at eight were we we at 18 now 14 18 and that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many questions that people really aren't uh inclined to deal with that have a lot more to do with uh you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any school uh Elite School because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard Bearer that you know that that was used that say Hey look we use har because if we go to if if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding everyone that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess uh you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it it epitomizes uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness MH okay so but then then the question is as a practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cache when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivu League Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a masters and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there was a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then go on for the Masters and so hey look even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to Accidental yeah and then he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he he still was at Princeton right for for the undergound oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shopping well certain members of the Marcos family would be very disappointed in your attitude about oh that's right they they like princing well I'm just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PHD that's right but those of us who went to the college we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is the we we are that is the cradle that is the Cradle of the well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no college at all right well yeah it makes it makes the mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago uh I wasn't able to be on last week but uh um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States um in the uh in the Republican party right of South Asian descent yeah two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she still has a significant you know uh cash you're talking about Nikki Haley you're talking about Nikki Haley yeah yeah Nicki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh lobbying business now well she's for now for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's what that's where are and I and I know a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and uh thought that the cache would get them in and around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no and they were really disappointed you know some of them were in business related areas or were in you know business um and and I and I told them when they left the city uh the only thing that's worthwhile business is is only two things one of them is getting a masters in bisad bad right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if you're not an accounting major in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you if you went to Harvard yeah here they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was uh racial uh discrimination um you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher aded level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfish or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own phogy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare handout it's just equity and fairness you know and equal Shake as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's the okay if we're GNA go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my class is can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job or um at a an institution uh on the west coast which has a substantial uh Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimination and therefore uh find uh a need to at least uh study the law and their rights you know and and and assert them uh at the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the implo you know at HR right at the human resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's already happened there there are already institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top asian-americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who study this they they warned the selfish Asians to say we don't you know we we we have straight A's we can get in we we we can rely on meritocracy we don't need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not higher ed not you know post post uh po post it you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asian-americans are about the same exactly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asians with 4.0 getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess we can't claim discrimination because there was no race I guess by being against air affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is yeah is done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so you were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that uh race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they're they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asians you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would rely on my my knowledge because good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with a four you know 4.0 and you know going on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not and this is this is why in my column on the aliff blog AAL df.org blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the foresight to understand that you are being used and this is going to backfire and it's going to you're going to Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was this discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything has come down for everyone not yeah it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color they're in favor of others okay and and the implication is their discrimination against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting quite racist superiority oh yeah oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the bo because they you you just said they're adopting racist views about they're adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they're adopting is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test score Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about it's they want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimacy that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments uh some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familial uh Legacy yes exactly familial Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football what I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of affirmative action but the T was would they extend that Legacy to my son or daugh you know my my right right and they could have to say hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law school or the business school but we'll bring him into the college uh they didn't they rejected and my my my son went to UC UC Berkeley well wow what a sad story yeah exactly see that's the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah ammer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get into Harvard so a lot of them got into Stanford or or they got into UC oh tough right yeah I I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right they are not going to look favorably on the asian-americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what and they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is we don't know that yeah we don't know because because the the percentage of the class for the blacks the Asians and the Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and successful use of the Asians he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white representation right that failed that failed miserably yeah you know I we just don't know to what extent it failed right being proven is that they're people of color who ify yeah you know so yeah that was always a fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than they thought affirmative action for whites is not EAS not an easy thing well people don't even think about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank yeah right and and and other obviously you know Hanks Shang you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint in the United States I said well let me check it out and so I go and look at see what their staff looked like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an MBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as to tokens you know well that's that's it you know 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we Dan where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know uh I was getting A's in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh so where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded in taking the word equity and substituting it for the n-word that's essentially what they've done the nword yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an oh I see I see and yet see this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deep sixed everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for everybody and and there there were Asian-American civil rights groups saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for everyone yep for being selfish all right let's uh let's move on let's swish [Music] out got my swisser working Dan let let's go back to top topic a is still oh the debate still the debate all right so what debate we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column alde blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund alde df.org blog and I I I was hesitant to say that K Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that KLA Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she wasn't as good as I'd hop she was on some specific thing she reli too much on I'm I'm I'm G get I'm gonna give small businesses $50,000 I'm she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I didn't agree I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not Total Domination but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did you did was it Total Domination was it a well it may be a shock to you but I have complete agreement with you oh well yeah see I'm a moderate I'm a moderate next next topic I I uh I'm complete agreement with you I was somewhat disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of a couple of opportunities in particular and uh one of them was uh you know you hate to go toe-to-toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the borders are stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and uh you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct she could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but there you go but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of hers that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartisan deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair some I thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump will will you comment on the border the border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that's sort of a gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do you that that's terrible though right I mean people go it's terrible that that that the General Public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but but it's a it's about the slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the Border issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and cats which is a slur which is it is it is intentionally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yes I I would say I would say definitely I was but but and I thought you were gonna say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs dog because first of all it was cat cat cat me which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in the 80s and they ate lion so I guess technically I had CAD uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the purported well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of other Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians who yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also e they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know are you gonna eat that you just it was a standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh you know eat eat everything before you die was titled for one of his books yeah well but you know D this is the standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and you know Asians should have felt that right to the core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic it's racist but it works among some whites today still uh some some well you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know it would resonate with some but not all do you think all no I don't I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of racist Notions right some level it's so it's a question of degree and and and most people would readily deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that that I might at least that you know at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you gotta cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it God it's still today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and it's already been it's been debunked geese the geese they had I saw a picture online though of a guy carrying a goose but but you know they had this this one woman Laura lumer oh man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when Margie Taylor green this so this no way no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than margerie Taylor green I mean it really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lommer up to this to make marjerie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else say I I think that's where this is going when by comparison by comparison she she might that but that might not be good for for her reelection I mean she's in she's in the lower house man she got to run every two years so she's up yeah but right now and that might that might lessen her cache man her value in her in her home constitu I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lumer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote all right you're realizing we're starting to sound real erical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate rightwing vote moderate right no I like your earlier statement better hey look I just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas tribun festival and it is you know predictably a kind of a sort of a moderate left kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro was there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump um and he's the guy you know who you know Carl Rove Le Atwater all those people put bu Bush's brain yeah put Bush's put Bush on the on the map in terms of you know how he he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah well Dad was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of white yeah right so you know that that kind of moderates him a little bit but you know also well he was critical of people um uh uh endangering the lives of Muslims after 911 you know came there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at the the tribing Fest and the thing about it is that they were all kamla Harris supporters they were all never trumpers Lincoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're a Filipino yeah and we talked you have a major interest in the area around the former uh Naval Base yeah but but I just you know I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans you were saying that they were all never trumpers and yeah Pro Harris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has gotten a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a [Laughter] way oh oh that hurt well I I'm just saying not not in terms of I mean you know he's the new he's the new that you really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you know he's uh he's not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist in misogynist as hell yeah and you know what more I mean I'll say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding mental health she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that she either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can agree with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what does it say about American politics now you you after the debate more Republicans join I think there's going to be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterms after after November you know like in in uh 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve uh a significant amount of what they State their agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system um and and put more judges out there that's what they need to do uh you know the Republicans blame the Democrats for all of the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah they don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they want to they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services uh but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right post Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything a government does is all socialist and they're saying that again you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell Marx uh has been saying he call she's a Marxist you know a grouo Marxist or so no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government um the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know except existing companies who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh they're targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them Greener I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things are ridiculously complex so I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes through your point about government is so complex getting grants of the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive and so that people can really access things like someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumers anyway uh you you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad well Wildfire uh season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who's burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that may be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh Looney Bin's Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida and now Senator you know denying that there's any kind of climate change and all the rest of that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is going to flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for them okay so they they're gonna have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh Inland mid mid Peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're GNA pay a price and this is the thing about people when they people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they dare me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I counselled a couple of friends of mine that owned property uh around the Russian River uh yeah you know you got it I don't know I don't know you should be holding on to that this is the thing that I know community Outreach um they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfortunately especially local press which is really what matters yeah local press ethnic press and well what scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this is this is the thing about KLA Harris and the the debate on uh on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and you said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high inflation is and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or mortgage rates or who's gonna you know make my gas gas prices lower who's gonna lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's a liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers and hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I don't know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure I I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows the the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when yeah coming up I think um yeah yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed yeah and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he wouldn't go for another debate yeah well he's saying he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Waltz campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like uh Kamala porn or something you know Oh you mean like uh you sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you she says that you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a star they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I think on the right on his the Trumper side I think he was helped by it well I think a lot of guys especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're gonna vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about man of color and KLA haris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump in larger numbers than people would think what's going I am not I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an African-American psychologist okay PhD Psychology uh longterm uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something you know so anyway uh Laura headed is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross loss and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and her students uh were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and I you know you you lose track after a few years who specifically was in your class but but uh Lind was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic mentor to these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who's a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more you know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in African studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hip-hop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when uh women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of African-American men and a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean they're not talking about her policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman hey I've had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buying into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know you mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said what the hell what the hell difference does that make what difference did it make that Obama has was half white actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said at navg well sometime is she black I just want you know yeah you know it the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the stations but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a c yeah it was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their panel uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had an African-American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call a Lighty you know he was you know moderately lightskinned and um and uh and younger maybe even only in his 20s you know like right out of college um and he they both were trumpers and they both and they both said well you know I haven't heard enough from either of them and then they were asked Point Blank right well are you gon to is there any chance that you would vote for for how you know for Kamala and one guy said no outright I'm a conservative you know I wouldn't do that and the other one said uh no I'm definitely leaning Trump so w had no effect on these two guys and they were within the age range that we're talking about right now yeah I just don't I just don't see that I you know he it's man of color you see it or you can't believe it I well I just I have a hard time believing that uh that's happening but also look it's men of color plus white women because I see the the focus groups that have white women saying oh well she sounds nice she sounds smart but I I think Donald Trump has far more experience oh yeah experience with felies I mean I there a lot of things I don't get all right you know what that is okay underlying all of this stuff at the root of everything is race oh yeah of course the root of everything is race and so yeah and then and then when you move over to men of color and try to explain their problem okay underlying everything is misogyny and it it's it saddens me to be able to say that but I have to say that based on my own experience observation and also in terms of academic data yeah well racism and misassy whenever you have an Asian-American African-American woman for the first time running for president you will have aspects of racism and misogyny and it's too bad it's too bad what you're saying is you're having a difficult time accepting that uh men of color particularly Latinos and African-Americans yeah um subscribe to those values I I do have a hard time because it's it's against their self-interest well but there's people who vote against their self-interest all the time there's people who drive against their self interest people who make left turns left turns in front of me with no signal right yeah look we just talked we just talked about affirmative action too so yeah people people work against yeah but affirmative action is a little deeper and and and the people all when they make erroneous uh decisions like that okay anti-affirmative action it's because they're accepting the shallow definition of the circumstances they're not they're not ex they're not seeing all of the permutations all of the facts that are involved in that process you know the general perspective on affirmative action has always been that people are using race and race only to their advantage and that's the only reason that people are getting voted in or chosen for admissions or hired is because of race and and and that is not a qualifying Factor they feel that the persons are not qualified otherwise that they would never have been chosen if they were not uh uh a person of color or if they were not a person of color or a woman okay and this this lgbtqq so right that's what they do so you you except for those categories of Suspicion right that's what they're called in the court is a suspect category if you're not in one of those suspect categories right uh then then people don't assume that you're incompetent but if you are from one of those suspect categories and you have a freaking job right that that you know they'll say well you know they got that job because you how they got there well we saw an extremely competent woman Asian-American African-American woman trouts a white former president she is a Dei hire in all its full-blown Glory she was better than a white man that that's what we can say that's what we can say she performed better than that particular white man I would hate to hold all white men to that standard well you know and the fact is Donald Trump is there because he has benefited from a kind of white privilege and white affirmative action whites wanted him to carry their mantle you know you wanted him as their standard Bearer and look where it's getting them I think in the end it's going to be the wrong choice for a guy to be present a second time around so yeah okay yeah but if he if he is elected and he gets that second time around uh we will all be visited by by the we will all be vulnerable to that comes from that well I think people better pay attention because uh you know Donald Trump If he if he wins I don't think he'll have any qualms or any hesitation to do all the things that he says he wants to do you know the dictatorship on day one yeah when he's rallying when he's doing his rally speeches yeah don't have any I I I think so too and it's going to be interesting I mean if he wins I'd be really interested in seeing how the people who thought they could control him the first time around right no they're not there they're he's talking to Laura lomer he's the people the people trying to help him out aren't there hey look in the time remaining let's look at some of the facts they're the key facts on the on the economic front people thinking about inflation he said a lot of things about uh inflation and the tariffs first the tariffs yeah tariffs tariffs are not paid for by a foreign company tariffs are PID for by the consumer the person buys the prodct ultimately the consumer it's it's paid for actually by the Importer which and the costs are passed on to the consumer Trump may deny it's a sales tax but those costs are going to be passed on to the consumer and the they already are they already are we already are suffering the consequences of that one of them is that when it comes to electric cars the the better electric cars are are being made right now in in in not only South Korea and Japan but also in China right China big time and even India is starting to get into the act and there are tariffs against all of them because they they are able to sell here much more cheaply than American made electric cars and they're much more dependable they right PE people just need to know that the way tariffs Works work Donald Trump doesn't understand tariffs he doesn't understand terce when he says that he's gonna make China pay I think he does I think he does I think he does and I think he just willing to lie his ass off I mean I think he you know that is so simplistic it is so stupid right and he keeps bragging about Wharton Wharton Wharton you know I went to business school Wharton Wharton Wharton hey one of the first things you learn is about tariffs yeah and KN one at Wharton says that uh there's a professor at Wharton said I don't know anyone here at Wharton who backs Donald Trump so there it is yeah so all right now he also said he said Donald Trump said I had no I had Terror and yet I had no inflation I had no inflation virtually virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation they the Biden Harris had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worst period of time and and the Washington Post fact checkon said Biden did not have the highest inflation in US history yeah inflation spiked to 9% mid 2022 yeah but it was as high as 13 3% in 1979 right and oh actually 13.3% yeah in 19799 12.5% in 1980 and it was 18.1% in 1946 and so that was because the war ended the war stopped right you know production production stopped uh unemployment skyrocketed right all the rest of that so yeah yeah uh okay so there that is um also one of the yeah well aray from let's do some more of the fact check cou so the the two the two key ones are uh the tariffs and inflation because people are you know they're bothered by inflation uh inflation which right now currently is at 2.5% and we're probably going to get uh some kind of uh help from the FED when they lower rates when they lower interest rates and that's going to lower rates on credit cards and car interest yeah but I I think they're only going to move by a quarter this time I was hoping for half half a point but I think they're only goingon to move by about a quarter it's not GNA be the big one but it's it's gonna help you know inflation all right here's here's another thing Trump said he said we have we have millions of people pouring into our country from prisons and jails from mental and insane asylums I mean where does he get that right I mean this is another xenophobia the same place he got his poll polling statistics yeah this is anti-immigrant uh the the post called the poppycock there is no way that they're coming out of any of those places and the number uh the number let's see uh a research associate for institute for crime and Justice policy research in Britain says the number let's see says in 2013 10.2 million people were in prison globally and that had grown to [Music] 10.77% Ohio story that was debunked well before he even repeated them people are still people are still repeating it and they're still looking for pictures and you know they're doing you know the um I don't know they they didn't even get into education or any of that stuff oh they didn't get an education and there was only one line where they got into lgbtq issues when they talked about some guy going into a bathroom and getting an operation which is like in the bathroom yeah so was that surgeon in this what yeah there's just a lot of baloney there I can't see anyone voting for Trump but you know uh we're dealing with the United States so um it's gonna be close it's gonna be a close uh election well that's what that's the scary part and that's the part that I always tell people who get engage in conversations with me including my neighbors I said you know I you even if Trump loses you know he's not gonna go away unless he leaves the country because he doesn't want to go to jail you know but he well that's gonna be it yeah but but his people won't go away they're going to be here yeah and when you see close to 50% of all of the voters in the United States uh willing to support a guy like that they're not going to go away that their their values and the things that that uh uh motivate them to vote for people like this are are clearly indications of how they think yeah and and and they're G to be there and they always have been there that's what I keep trying to tell my students yeah look at the history if you look at the history that element of of racist nationalism has always been there and Trump just gave him a reason to come out unfortunately and and this is the bad thing because when I was at that uh that this thing in Texas I I don't think I ever met so many Republicans that I liked that was a in in in my experience there are so many nice Republicans I said GE I hope this is a trend I hope this is a trend because we're talking to each other and maybe we can come up with policy that makes sense I hope if if Harris wins there is that sense because people will realize she's not some she's not comrade kamla she's not a Marxist she is a Centrist and we have a shot at creating a government that can work for everyone well that was that was the knock that she took from progressives and and liberals oh yeah yeah she was she they saw her as a right winger just by being a DA yeah know you know and I know that's the case there's a lot of people on the the left and the extreme left who look at KLA Harris and say oh no thank you oh no thank you and and you know and people in the extreme right who say oh no thank you oh no thank you and really it's it's a people in the middle who say yeah you know cly she deserves a shot she she she can do it but let's see how close Hey listen Dan uh thanks for being with me uh talking about this thanks for having me thanks for having me it's pleasure being back yeah and we'll we'll talk again soon uh I I I don't know what's going to happen that we'll follow the campaign we'll follow I mean North Carolina looks like they're they're moving toward KLA uh you got Wisconsin I guess Pennsylvania will still be very critical uh Nevada Nevada Wisconsin and Michigan look like they're moving in her Direction definitely but but it's just polls yeah we'll see more Nevada I I'm with you I think Nevada and Arizona are going to really be significant well if if you if you need pad and someone there someone's gonna need pad they're gonna they're gonna need it all but I think what with the debate if any I mean I I said this after I saw her speak at the DNC that if anyone had any doubts but this was like 67 million people watching this and all people not just Democrats it was Republicans too if they saw this they know now that KLA Harris is more than capable more than qualified and what scared me a little bit over the last three years is how everyone had such a jaundice view of KLA Harris all the the the you know the mainstream press when when there was a big takeout in one of the papers the New York Times Washington Post you name it they would always approach the profile as if ah we don't know about this Comm ER oh there's something something wrong I never I I had some my issues with her but I was not as skeptical as the Washington press Corps and well your issues were real issues you know in other words there were things that she did that that you either found uh contributed to a more just Society or that you found uh were likely to cause a great amount of Injustice that you know that's when you're looking at at a DA or an attorney general that's generally what you're looking at right yeah and so your criticisms of her were legitimate criticisms just as my points uh of reminders to you that she did some good things about youth uh uh uh you know you she wasn't quite an advocate but she definitely started up programs um that were more likely to uh keep youth away from uh adult prisons and more likely instead to give them Alternatives right to to criminal well here's the thing that you learn about people's past you know they're not perfect right they might might go this way on one issue and the other way on another issue that's right in the end uh she's running today against Donald Trump and compared to Donald Trump KL Harris looks like uh like she's Heaven Sent right compared to Donald's Donald Trump and I I think people are going to have to make up their own minds uh and not rely on Taylor Swift unfortunately but yeah what can I say and not rely on uh Beyonce or Jay-Z or I know wank you know I discovered wuang Clan recently yeah you know you know cool you know wuang Clan Ain't Nothing To with that's nothing to with they're my favorite Asian-American rap [Laughter] group I I know they're not I they're from Brooklyn they're from qu yeah I know I know all right Dan hey thanks uh stick around we'll talk uh there but there he goes Daniel Phil Gonzales my friend College of ethnic studies Asian-American studies San Francisco State University far more radical than I am which is why I like to bring them in you know usually on Fridays so I can tell if my my barometer is still working yeah I'm a little more to the center a little more to the center hey check out my columns on the alff blog a df.org Blog you know I'm I'm moving the column the column's going to go somewhere else here here if you want to play this game with me should where should I move it to subst or move it to patreon uh just go to your the form here just or go to am.com and say Emil you should go here or Emil you should just shut up no one cares about you or you know just tell me because uh I won't be at alde um for for much longer but let me know let me know you can cast my columns there now my back columns at AAL df.org blog and um let's see what else are we doing oh you know I have discovered something I have discovered intentional laughter and it's helped me a lot just laughing on purpose not because I said something funny like you know Dan was laughing um you know before because I had I was doing my trump my trump impression this is laughter non dependent on a trump impression non-dependent on anything it's just I call it intentional laughter and it's helped it's helped and check out I'll do some things probably in a week I'll start my intentional laughter things here on this show I I still do some meditation because that's helped me helped me a lot helped me a lot calm down about everything that's come down the pike you know my Yogi say hey stop watching the news you want to feel happy stop watching the news but these news meditations have also helped me so anyway meditation is help news meditation story meditation loving kindness sending it out to you out there and then because it comes back twofold three-fold fourfold and so as I wish for me I wish for you may you be safe may you be happy may you be healthy and may you live with these Emil GMO here catch us on YouTube at amil1 X amok FB Facebook at Emil goo. Media or my name Emil GMO have a great weekend till next time Mahal and you found us hi everyone it's Emil it's Emil GMO ail auk to you thank you for catching us here on my my takeout my Emil amuk takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes on all things considerable uh this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well uh and with ishmail I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still fact Che we're going to try to fact check Washington Post did a big fact check trying to say who lied try to see what was said because you know it's hard to to it really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he w W in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse than being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lomer yesterday with ishmail ishmail hadn't heard of Lisa but Lisa lomer was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday KLA Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's going to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not debating because you know just like the prize fighters who ask for a rematch they're the losers and he's not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so any that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the Harvard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released them we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high some were were down you know affirmative action here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I see it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if your numbers are the same it means man affirmative action was doing its job it was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and my take it's on the alep Block the Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed it they bought it they played to their self-interest and in doing so they got rid of one of the best tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down to every form of admissions or every form of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to achieve all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they played to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrific all that for their for the just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discriminating it no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect scores and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are thinking oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone and we're left with this color blind BS where we don't know where we are the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzalez in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well [Music] so here he is Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend professor of college of ethnic studies San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the asian-americans who were duped and put out there as a perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down A system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now we're in conclusive well uh yeah the all they did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stay the same at 37 yeah yeah but and but we only constitute we constitute less than 6% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admissions that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher it would be in the 40s 43% depends on who yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's what that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of equity to Prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians who were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is justed is bad because the the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because say exactly because if there was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah and and uh that's interesting right that it's that it's steady I I I've always questioned why people are so uh interested right at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say highly a culturist and assimilationist value yeah it it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to harv because ishmail Reed said the same thing he's like what's the big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is har is the Louis Vuitton of schools and and and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids to go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're into the the the designer education but you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the guy from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's uh the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejected and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race-based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents were saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have a new one allegedly color blind well that's that's the thing how how how colorblind and you know one of the things about you can't tell uh what's happening uh because whites have the option not to save their race or people have their option not to say the race so and Harvard didn't even release the official whites you know number how many whites in the population that's right yeah so they only listed yeah yeah so you can't you can't really tell Asians others yeah Asians were 37 blacks were at eight were we we at 18 now 14 18 that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many questions that people really aren't uh inclined to deal with that have a lot more to do with uh you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any school uh elite school because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard Bearer that you know that that was used that say Hey look well use har because if we go to if if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding everyone that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess uh you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it rep it epitomizes uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness M okay so but then then the question is as a practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into the Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cache when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivy league Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a master's and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there was a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then go on for the Masters and so he look even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to Accidental yeah and then he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he he still was at Princeton right for for the undergound oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shopping well certain members of the Marcos family would be very disappointed in your attitude about oh that's right they they like princing well I'm just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PHD that's right but those of us who went to the College we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is the we we are that is the cradle that is the Cradle of the well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no college at all right well yeah so it makes it makes the Mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago I wasn't able to be on last week but uh um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States um in the uh in the Republican party right of South Asian descent yeah two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she still has a significant you know uh cache talking about Nikki Haley you're talking about Nikki Haley yeah yeah Niki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh lobbying business now well she's cross for now for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's where that's where we are and I and I know a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and uh thought that the cash would get them in and around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no and they were really disappointed you know some of them were in business related areas or were in you know business uh and and I and I told them when they left the city the only thing that's worthwhile in business is there only two things and one of them is getting a masters in bisad bad right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if you're not an accounting major in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you know I don't care if you went to Harvard yeah here they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was racial uh discrimination um you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher ad level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfishly or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own meritocracy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare handout it's just equity and fairness you know and equal Shake as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's okay if we're gonna go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my class is can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job or um at a an institution uh on the west coast which has a substantial Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimination and therefore uh find uh a need to at least study the law and their rights you know and and assert them uh at the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the emplo you know at HR right at the human resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's already happened there there there are already institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top asian-americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who studied this thing they they warned the selfish Asians say we don't you know we we we have straight A's we can get in we we can rely on meritocracy we don't need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not higher ed not you know post post post you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asianic amans are about the same exactly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asians with 4.0 getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess we can't claim discrimination because there was no race I guess by being against affir affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is yeah is done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so you were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that uh race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know uh I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they're they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asian you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would rely on my my knowledge because good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with a four you know 4.0 and you know going on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not and this is this is why in my column on the aliff blog a a df.org Blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the foresight to understand that you are being used and this is going to backfire and it's gonna you're gonna Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything has come down for everyone not yeah it's it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color they're in favor of others okay and and the implication is their discrimination against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting white racist superiority oh oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the B because they you you just said they're adopting racist views about adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they're adopting this is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test es or Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about it's they want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimacy that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familiar uh Legacy yes exactly familial Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football what I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of affirmative action but the test was would they extend that Legacy to my son or do you know my my right right right and they could have to say Hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law school or the business school but we'll bring him into the college uh they didn't they rejected and my my my son went to UC UC Berkeley well wow what a sad story yeah exactly see that's the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah hmer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get into Harvard so a lot of them got into Stanford yeah or or they got into UC oh tough right yeah I I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right they are not going to look favorably on the asian-americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what and they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is no we don't know that yeah we don't know because because the the percentage of the class for the blacks the Asians and the Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and he successful use of the Asians he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white representation right that failed that failed miserably yeah you know I just don't know to what extent it failed right being proven is that they're people of color who qualify yeah you know so yeah that was always the fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than than they thought affirmative action for whites is not easy not an easy thing well people don't even think about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank yeah right and and and other obviously you know Hank Shen you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint the United States I said well let me check it out and so I go and look at see what their staff looked like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an NBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as tokens you know well that's that's it you know 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we Dan where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know uh I was getting a in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh so where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded in taking the word equity and substituting it for the nword that's essentially what they've done the nword yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an N oh I see I see and yet see this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deep sixed everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for everybody and and there there were Asian-American civil rights groups saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for everyone yep for being selfish all right let's uh let's move on let's swish [Music] out got my Swisher working Dan let let's go back to top topic a is still oh the debate still the debate all right so what debate we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column alde blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund Alf a df.org Blog and I said I I was hesitant to say that KLA Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that KLA Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she wasn't as good as I'd hop she was on some specific things she relied too much on I'm I'm I'm G get I'm gonna give small businesses $50,000 I'm she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I didn't agree I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not Total Domination but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did you did she was it Total Domination was it a butt may be a shock to you but I have complete agreement with you oh well yeah see I'm I'm a moderate I'm a moderate next next topic I I uh I'm complete agreement with you I was somewhat disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of a couple of opportunities in particular and U one of them was uh you know you hate to go toe-to-toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the borders are stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and uh you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct she could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but that's there you go but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of hers that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartison deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair some I thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump will will you comment on the border the Border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that's sort of a gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do you that that's terrible though right I mean people go it's terrible that that that the general public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but but D it's a it's about slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the Border issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and cats which is a slur which is it is it is intentionally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist and it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yes I I would say I would say definitely I would say but but and I thought you were gonna say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs dog me because first of all it was cat cat cat me which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in the 80s and they ate lion so I guess technically I had cat uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the purported well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of other Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians who yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know are you going to eat that you just it was a standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh you know eat eat everything before you die was titled for one of his books yeah but but you know D this is the standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and you know Asians should have felt that right to the core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic it's racist but it works amongst some whites today still uh some some well you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know resonate with some but not all do you think all no I don't I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of racist Notions right some level so it's a question of degree and and and most people would readily deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that that I might at least that you know at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they say oh just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you gotta cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it my God it's still happen still happening today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and yeah it's already been it's been debunked geese the geese they had I saw a picture online though a guy caring a goose but but you know they had this this one woman Laura lumer oh man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when Mary Taylor Green in no way in no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than than margorie Taylor green I mean it really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lumer up to this to make margorie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else say look I I think that's where this is going when by comparison comparison she she might that but that might not be good for for her reelection I mean she's in she's in the lower house man she got to run every two years so she's yeah but I right now and that might that might lessen her cache man her value in her in her home constitu I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lomer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote all right you're realizing we're starting to sound real Radical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate right wing vote moderate right no no no I liked your your statement better hey look I just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas Tribune festival and it is you know predictably a kind of a sort of a moderate left kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro was there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump um and he's the guy you know who You Know Carl Rove Le Atwater all those people put Bush's brain yeah put bushes put Bush on the on the map in terms of you know how he he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah Dad was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of white yeah right so you know that that kind of moderates him a little bit but you know well he was critical of people um uh endangering the lives of Muslims after 911 you know there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at U the tribing Fest and the thing about it is that they were all KLA Harris supporters they were all never trumpers Lincoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're a Filipino yeah and we talked a little bit you have a major interest in the area around the former uh Naval Base yeah but but I just you know I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans you were saying that they were all never trumpers and yeah Pro Harris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has gotten a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a [Laughter] way oh oh that hurt well I I'm just saying not not in terms of I mean you know he's the new he's the new that you really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you know he's uh he's uh not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist and mogy as hell yeah and you know what more I mean I'll say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding mental health she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that you either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can agree with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what does it say about American politics now you you see after the debate more Republicans join I think there's going to be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterms after after November you know like in in uh 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve a significant amount of what they State their agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system um and and put more judges out there uh that's what they need to do uh you know the the Republicans blame the Democrats for all of the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah right we don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they want to they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing ing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services uh but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right the PO Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything the government does is all socialist and they're saying that again there you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell marks uh has been saying he calls you she's a Marxist you know a grouo Marxist or so no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government um the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know I except existing companies who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh they're targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them Greener I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things are ridiculously complex so I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes to your point about government is so complex getting grants of the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive and so that people can really access things like if someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumers anyway uh you you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad well Wildfire uh season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who's burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that may be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh Looney Bin's Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida and now Senator you know denying that there's any kind of climate change and all the rest of that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is going to flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for them okay so they they're going to have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh Inland mid mid Peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're goingon to pay a price and this is the thing about people when they people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they dare me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I celled a couple of friends of mine that owned property uh around the Russian River uh you know you get got it I don't know I don't know you should be holding on to that know this is the thing that I you know community outreach um they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfortunately especially local press which is really what matters yeah local press ethnic press and what scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this is this is the thing about KLA Harris and the the debate on U on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and you said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high inflation is and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or mortgage rates or who's gonna you know make my gas gas prices lower who's going to lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's a liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers and hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I don't know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure sure I I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows the the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when coming up I think um yeah yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed yeah and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he wouldn't go for another debate yeah well he's saying he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Waltz campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like uh Kamala porn or something you know Oh you mean like uh you know sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you she says that you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a start they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I think on the right on his the Trumper side I think he was helped by it well I think a lot of guys especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're gonna vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about man of color and KLA Harris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump uh in larger numbers than people would think well what's I am not I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an africanamerican psychologist okay PhD Psychology uh longterm uh uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and uh she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something you know so anyway uh Laura headed is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross loss and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and her students uh were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and I you know you you lose track after a few years who specifically was in your class but but uh Linda was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic IC mentor to these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who's a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more you know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in African studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hip-hop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when uh women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of African-American men and a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean they're not talking about her policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman hey I've had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buing into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know you mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said what the hell what the hell difference does that make what difference did it make that Obama has was half white actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said at nabj well sometime is she black I just you know yeah you know the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the stations but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a c it was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their panel uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had an African-American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call a Lighty you know he was you know moderately light-skinned and um and uh and younger Maybe even only in his 20s you know like right out of college um and he they both were trumpers and they both and they both said well you know I haven't heard enough from either of them and then they were asked Point Blank right well are you gonna is there any chance that you would vote for for how you know for Kamala and one guy said no outright I'm a conservative you know I wouldn't do that and the other one said uh no I'm definitely leaning Trump so w had no effect on these two guys and they were within the age range that we're talking about right now yeah I just don't I just don't see that I you know it's man of color you see it or you can't believe it I well I just I have a hard time believing that okay that's happening but also look it's men of color plus white women because I see the the focus groups that have white women saying oh well she sounds nice she sounds smart but I I think Donald Trump has far more experience oh yeah experience with felies I mean I a lot of things I don't get all right you know what that is okay underlying all of this stuff at the root of everything is race oh yeah of course the root of everything is race and so not yeah and then and then when you move over to men of color and trying to explain their problem okay underlying everything is and it it's it saddens me to be able to say that but I have to say that based on my own experience observation and also in terms of academic data yeah well racism and misogyny whenever you have an Asian-American African-American woman for the first time running for president you will have aspect of racism and misogyny and it's too bad it's too what you're saying is you're having a difficult time accepting that uh men of color particularly Latinos and African-Americans yeah um subscribe to those values I I do have a hard time because it's it's against their self-interest well but there's people who vote against their self-interest all the time there's people who drive against their self-interest there's people who make left turns left turns in front of me with no signal right yeah look we just talked we just talked about affirmative action too so yeah people people work yeah but affirmative action is a little deeper and and and the people when they make erroneous uh decisions like that okay anti-affirmative action it's because they're accepting the shallow definition of the circumstances they're not they're not ex they're not seeing all of the permutations all of the facts that are involved in that process you know the general perspective on affirmative action has always been that people are using race and race only to their advantage and that's the only reason that people are getting voted in or chosen for admissions or hired is because of race and and and that is not a qualifying Factor they feel that the persons are not qualified otherwise that they would never have been chosen if they were not uh uh a person of color or if they were not a person of color or a woman okay and this this lgbtqq so right that's what they do so you you except for those categories of Suspicion right that's what they're called in the court is a suspect category if you're not in one of those suspect categories right uh then then people don't assume that you're incompetent but if you are from one of those suspect categories and you have a freaking job right that that you know they'll say well you know they got that job because uh you how they got there well look we saw an extremely competent woman Asian-American African-American woman trouts a white former president she is a Dei hire in all its full-blown Glory she was better than a white man that that's what we can say that's what we can say she performed better than that particular white man I would hate to hold all white men to that standard well you know and the fact is Donald Trump is there because he has benefited from a kind of white privilege and white affirmative action whites wanted him to carry their mantle you know you wanted him as their standard Bearer and look where it's getting them I think in the end it's going to be the wrong choice for a guy to be present a second time around so yeah okay yeah but if he if he is elected and he gets that second time around uh we will all be visited by by the we will all be vulnerable to that comes from that well I think people better pay attention because uh you know Donald Trump If he if he wins I don't think he'll have any qualms or any hesitation to do all the things that he says he wants to do you know the dictatorship on day one when he's rallying when he's doing his rally speeches yeah don't have any I I I think so too and it's going to be interesting I mean if he wins I'd be really interested in seeing how the people who thought they could control him the first time around right no they're not there they he's talking to Lura lumer he's the people the people trying to help him out aren't there hey look in the time remaining let's look at some of the facts that're the key facts on the on the economic front people thinking about inflation he said a lot of things about uh inflation and the tariffs first the tariffs yeah tariffs tariffs are not paid for by a foreign company tariffs are paid for by the consumer The Bu The prodct timately ultimately the consumer it's it's paid for actually by the Importer which and the costs are passed on to the consumer Trump may deny it's a sales tax but those costs are going to be pass passed on to the consumer and the they already are they already are we already are suffering the consequences of that one of them is that when it comes to electric cars the the better electric cars are are being made right now in in in not only South Korea and Japan but also in China right China big time and even India is starting to get into the act and there are tariffs against all of them because they they are a ble to sell here much more cheaply than American made electric cars and they're much more dependable they right PE people just need to know that the way tariffs Works work Donald Trump doesn't understand tariffs he doesn't understand terce when he says that he's gonna make China pay I think he does I think he does I think he does and I think he's just willing to lie his ass off I mean that's I think he you know that is so simplistic it is so stupid right and he keeps bragging about Wharton Wharton Wharton you know I went to business school Wharton Wharton Wharton hey one of the first things you learn is about tariffs yeah and knowing at Wharton says that uh there's a professor at Wharton said I don't know anyone here at Wharton who backs Donald Trump so there it is yeah so all right now he also said he said Donald Trump said I had no I had tariffs and yet I had no inflation I had no inflation virtually virtually no inflation they had the highest inflation they the Biden Harris had the highest inflation perhaps in the history of our country because I've never seen a worst period of time and and the Washington Post fact checkon said Biden did not have the highest inflation in US history yeah inflation spiked to 9% mid 2022 yeah but it was as high as 13.3% in 1979 okay and or actually 13.3% yeah in 1978 12.5% in 1980 and it was 18.1% in 1946 and so yeah that was because the war ended the war stopped right you know production production stopped uh unemployment skyrocketed right all the rest of that so yeah uh okay so there that is um also one of the yeah well iay from let's do some more fact check so the the two the two key ones are uh the tariffs and inflation because people are you know they're bothered by inflation at inflation which right now currently is at 2.5% and we're probably going to get uh some kind of uh help from the FED when they lower rates when they lower interest rates and that's going to lower rates on credit cards and car interest that kind of yeah but I think they're only going to move by a quarter this time I was hoping for half half a point but I think they're only going to move by about a quarter it's not going to be the big one but it's it's going to help you know inflation all right here's here's another thing Trump said he said we have we have millions of people pouring into our country from prisons and jails from mental inss and insane asylums I mean where does he get that right I mean this is another xenophobia the same place he got his poll polling statistics yeah this is anti-immigrant uh the the post called it poppycock there is no way that they're coming out of any of those places and the number uh the number let's see uh a research associate for institute for crime and Justice policy research in Britain says the number let's see says in 2013 10.2 million people were in prison globally and that had grown to 10.77% yeah but the biggest prison population is the US prison population right right but most people disagree with what Trump said that they're coming out of you know jails and asylums okay now let's see I I guess you know those are the big things if people should go to I mean we we debunked the the dog and cat Springfield Ohio story that was debunked well before he even repeated them people are still people are still repeating it and they're still looking for pictures and you know they're doing you know the um I don't know they they didn't even get into education or any of that stuff oh they didn't get an education and there was only one line where they got into lgbtq issues when they talked about some guy going into a bathroom and getting an operation which is like in the bathroom yeah yeah was that surgeon in this what yeah there's just a lot of baloney there I can't see anyone voting for Trump but you know uh we're dealing with the United States so um it's going to be close it's going to be a close uh election well that's what that's the scary part and that's the part that I always tell people who get engage in conversations with me including my neighbors I said you know I you even if Trump loses you know he's not gonna go away unless he leaves the country because he doesn't want to go to jail you know but he well that's gonna be it yeah but but but his people won't go away they're gon to be here and when you see close to 50% of all of the voters in the United States uh willing to support a guy like that they're not going to go away that their their values and the things that that uh uh motivate them to vote for people like this are are clearly indications of how they think yeah and and and they're going to be there and they always have been there that's what I keep trying to tell my students look at the history if you look at the history that element of of racist nationalism has always been there and Trump just gave him a reason to come out unfortunately and and this is the bad thing because when I was at that uh that this thing in Texas I I don't think I ever met so many Republicans that I liked that was a in in in my experience there are so many nice Republicans I said GE I hope this is a trend I hope this is a trend because we're talking to each other and maybe we can come up with policy that makes sense I hope if if Harris wins there is that sense because people will realize she's not some she's not comrade kamla she's not a Marxist she is a Centrist and we have a shot at creating a government that can work for everyone well that was that was the knock that she took from progressives and and liberals oh yeah yeah she was she they saw her as a right winger just by being a DA yeah know you know and I know that's the case there's a lot of people on the the left and the extreme left who look at KLA Harrison and say oh no thank you oh no thank you and and you know and people in the extreme right who say oh no thank you oh no thank you and really it's it's the people in the middle who say yeah you know K she deserves a shot she she she can do it but let's see how close Hey listen Dan uh thanks for being with me uh talking about this thanks for having me thanks for having me it's pleasure being back yeah and we'll we'll talk again soon soon uh I I I don't know what's going to happen that we'll follow the campaign we'll follow I mean North Carolina looks like they're they're moving toward KLA uh you got Wisconsin I guess Pennsylvania will still be very critical um Nevada Nevada is Wisconsin and Michigan look like they're moving in her Direction definitely but but you know it's just polls yeah well we'll see more Nevada I I'm with you I think Nevada and Arizona are going to really be significant well if if you if you need pad and someone there someone's going to need pad they're gonna they're going to need it all but I think what with the debate if any I mean I I said this after I saw her speak at the DNC that if anyone had any doubts but this was like 67 million people watching this and all people not just Democrats it was Republicans too if they saw this they know now that KLA Harris is more than capable more than qualified and what scared me a little bit over the last three years is how everyone had such a jaundice view of KLA Harris all the the the you know the mainstream press when when there was a big takeout in one of the papers the New York Times Washington Post you name it they would always approach the profile as if ah we don't know about this Comm oh there's something something wrong I never I I had some my issues with her but I was not as skeptical as the Washington press Corps and well your issues were real issues you know in other words there were things that she did that that you either found uh contributed to a more just Society or that you found uh were likely to cause a greater amount of Injustice that you know that's when you're looking at at a DA or an attorney general that's generally what you're looking at right yeah and so your criticisms of her were legitimate criticisms just as my points uh of reminders to you that she did some good things about youth uh uh uh you know you she wasn't quite an advocate but she definitely started up programs um that were more likely to uh keep youth away from uh adult prisons and more likely instead to give them Alternatives right to to criminal well here's the thing that you learn about people's past you know they're not perfect right they might might go this way on one issue and the other way on another issue that's right in the end uh she's running today against Donald Trump and compared to Donald Trump KL Harris looks like uh like she's Heaven Sent right compared to Donald's Donald Trump and I I think people are going to have to make up their own minds uh and not rely on Taylor Swift unfortunately but yeah what can I say and not rely on uh Beyonce or Jay-Z or I know wuang you know I discovered wuang Clan recently yeah you know you cool you know wuang Clan Ain't Nothing To with that's nothing to with they're my favorite Asian-American rap group I I know they're not I they're from Brooklyn they're from qu yeah I know I know all right Dan hey thanks uh stick around we'll talk uh there but there he goes Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend College of ethnic studies Asian-American studies San Francisco State University far more radical than I am which is why I like to bring him in you know usually on Fridays so I can tell if my my barometer is still working yeah I'm a little more to the center a little more to the center hey check out my columns on the ALF blog a df.org Blog you know I'm I'm moving the column the column's going to go somewhere else here here if you want to play this game with me should where should I move it to substack or move it to patreon uh just go to your the form here just or go to Amo k.com say Emil you should go here or Emil you should just shut up no one cares about you or you know just tell me because uh I won't be at alev um for for much longer but let me know let me know you can cast my columns here now my back columns at AAL df.org blog and um let's see what else are we doing oh you know I have discovered something thing I have discovered intentional laughter and it's helped me a lot just laughing on purpose not because I said something funny like you know Dan was laughing um you know before because I had I was doing my trump my trump impression this is laughter non dependent on a trump impression non- dependent on anything it's just I call it intentional laughter and it's helped it's helped and check out I'll do some things probably in a week I'll start my intentional after things here on this show I I still do some meditation because that's helped me helped me a lot helped me a lot calm down about everything that's come down the pike you know my Yogi say hey stop watching the news you want to feel happy stop watching the news but these news meditations have also helped me so anyway meditation is help news meditation story meditation loving kindness sending it out to you out there and then because it comes back twofold three-fold fourfold and so as I wish for me I wish for you may you be safe may you be happy may you be healthy and may you live with these Emil GMO here catch us on YouTube at Amil amuk One X Amil amuk FB Facebook at Emil goo. Media or my name Emil GMO have a great weekend till next time Mahal and you found us hi everyone it's Emil it's Emil GMO Emil I'm up to you thank you for catching us here on my my takeout my Emil among takeout it's sort of like a no door Dash needed just coming up take it out my takes and all things considerable uh this is show 752 if you saw 751 you know we had the esteemed writer ishmail Reed we have another esteemed guest coming up today as well uh and with ishmail I talked about well topic the big topic is the debate everyone still wants to talk about the debate because it has these repercussions it has you know people are still factchecking we're going to try to fact check Washington posted a big fact check trying to say who lied trying to see what was said because you know it's hard to to it really is hard to assess when you have to this day Donald Trump insisting that he won that debate he did not win that debate I think I mean maybe he won in terms of lies in terms of falsehoods but he did not win the debate I I think we should establish that and yet as I said there are people out there because under the Hitler Theory and the Hitler theory is a real thing because he said this Hitler said you say a lie enough times and people start believing it that that's Hitler's Theory it's Donald Trump's Theory that's why he lies all the time it's worse than being a pathological liar what what is worse being a pathological liar but he's a liar and so we'll go over that fact check people people talking about the debate and then people we talked about Lisa lomer yesterday with ishmail ishma hadn't heard of Lisa but Lisa lomer was in the news people talking about her like who is this woman with Donald Trump oh she's the one spreading the Springfield Ohio rumors of course so that's still a discussion point and then yesterday uh KLA Harris announced you know she has raised more money in 24 hours or you know post debate and that's going to mean she's gon to have two three times the amount that Trump has to pump into the campaign Trump is going to need to debate if he wants to stay in it but he says he's not debating because you know just like the prize fighters who asked for a rematch they're the losers and he's not the loser he's not the loser although he's the loser so any that's politics in America I I do want to talk about the Harvard numbers I talked about that with ishmail but you'll see I mean I think you need to talk about the Harvard numbers the post affirmative action numbers uh now that Harvard finally released them we were all waiting with baited breath we saw how the numbers were all over the board at all different institutions some were high some were were down you know affirmative action here here's what if you're anti-affirmative action you said hey we don't need race we got exactly the same thing and what how I see it is no it shows you you do need race because without thinking about race if if your numbers are the same it means man affirmative action was doing its job it was creating equity and now when you ban racial considerations you've just stopped all progress and my take it's on the alde blog the Asian-American legal defense and education fund my take is it just proves that asian-americans were duped they were put up there by white anti-affirmative action people as the perfect victims and they played the part they believed it they bought it they played to their self-interest and in doing so they got rid of one of the best tools for racial equity and higher education and maybe the rest of society because it this will trickle down to every form of missions or every form of application process from jobs to you name it it's it's going to happen it's going to be much harder to achieve all because of a bunch of selfish asian-americans who said I'm the perfect victim I was discriminated against they play to their self-interest at the risk of threatening a way that all racial minorities all ethnic minorities could get some sense of equity and fairness in admissions they sacrifice all that for their for their just for themselves for for their own self- edification I was discriminating no you weren't because here's the thing with those Asian-American numbers they stayed the same with or without you know any kind of racial boost they stayed the same which means if they stayed the same there were some asian-americans with perfect score and 4.0 who did not get in and are they complaining are they oh we didn't get in we're discriminated against no the truth is you were never discriminated against you were never discriminated against and because of your selfishness a tool that was used to create equity and college admissions is now gone and we're left with this colorblind BS where we don't know where we are the numbers for Harvard are out and we can't say exactly where we are at best we can say is we have a nuanced situation so we'll talk about that with my guest coming up Professor Daniel Phil Gonzalez in fact let me bring him in now and then we'll talk about the debate and the fact check as well [Music] so here he is Daniel Phil Gonzalez my friend professor of college of ethnic studies San Francisco State University Dan thank you for uh being on the show you heard what I said about the Harvard numbers you saw them you know they've been published they were published on Wednesday I mean my take is that the asian-americans who were duped and put out there as a perfect victims were used and because they were so selfish they took down a system that was good for everyone and now we're left with a system that we don't know how good it is because the numbers right now are conclusion well uh yeah the all they did was release raw stats and uh you know what's going to be interesting for me is what the reaction is going to be from the general society when they see how high the Asian-American percentages were Oh you mean well at Harvard they stayed the same at 37 yeah yeah but and but we only constitute we constitute less than 6% if you go aapi oh yeah yeah but I I'm saying that the fear was at this first go round with no you know racial you know with colorblind admissions that there would be a reduction no no the fear was that there would be higher there would it be in the 40s 43% depends on who yeah it I don't I didn't understand where fear from which perspective right that that's what I that's right that's right you're right I mean for for people who wanted a sense of Equity to Prevail the fear was that oh the Asian numbers are going to go way high because if it's all on this quote unquote meritocracy then all those 4.0 Asians who were rejected they'll get in presumably but they didn't which shows I don't know it shows that maybe this new system is just as bad because the asian-americans who were rejected are they saying they were discriminated against or are they saying they got a fair Shake now because no exactly because if there was no movement in in either direction it means that their stuff was appears to be steady yeah and and uh that's interesting right that it's that it's steady I I I've always questioned why people are so uh interested right at at going to that particular institution uh and and they're so driven by it and and the only thing I can come come up with is that is it is the very I don't want to call it conservative but let's say uh highly a culturist and assimilationist value yeah it's funny you should say that it's funny you should say why are people so concerned about going to Harvard because ishmail Reed said the same thing it's like what's a big deal about Harvard and it really boils down to Harvard is like the LV on a woman's handbag it is Harvard is the Louis Vuitton of schools and and and and all you have to do is read some of my pieces going back to 2015 2016 where I went back to Harvard Yard and saw Asians not just asian-americans but Asians from Asia coming here soon to be you know they've got young kids soon to be uh they want to immigrate they want their kids to go to Harvard to see how they viewed Harvard they they really they they had to get here I mean maybe it's a culturation maybe it's you know just you know they they they're into the the the designer education but you know that was a standard and you know this is what Ed Blum the guy from who started students for yeah the person who financed it all yeah students for fair admissions he's uh the white anti-affirmative action advocate he found he he went out beat beat the bushes and tried to find the asian-americans who were rejected and tried to find the perfect victims after failing with a white victim at Texas to reverse you know race-based admissions he said let's find the perfect victim asian-americans and he found enough they they went all the way to the Supreme Court and they won and it's uh it's sad because all this time affirmative right right affirmative action proponents were saying nothing wrong with the system you know but now we don't have now we don't have the system now we have this colorblind thing and who knows what we have new one allegedly colorblind well that's the thing how how how color blind and you know one of the things about you can't tell uh what's happening uh because whites have the option not to save their race or people have their option not to say their race so and Harvard didn't even release the official whites you know number how many whites in the population that's right yeah so they only listed yeah yeah so you can't you can't really tell Asians others yeah Asians were 37 blacks were at eight were we're we at 18 now 14 18 and that's a drop to go from 18 to 14 is a significant drop or would you say that I uh well okay I I just don't want to beat the hell out of this this topic but you know there's so many questions that people really aren't uh inclined to deal with that have a lot more to do with uh you know once again why people want to go so badly to to to Harvard or any ivy and actually it's any any school uh elite school because but but Harvard was sort of the the standard Bearer that you know that that was used that say Hey look we'll use because if we go to if we if we dump Harvard if we ding Harvard we ding everyone that was the strategy yeah I think uh yeah I guess uh you know Harvard represents whiteness right it it it epitomizes uh academic and social achievement uh based on uh the substantially mythological notion of whiteness okay so but then then the question is as a practical matter does it have cache and so on the Practical side there has to be a belief among those asian-americans and other people of color who who want so badly to get into Harvard right they have to believe that there's going to be an instant cache when they get out yeah okay well one of the things that I tell my my my students and their families if their families ask is don't spend your money on on a a high-end uh ivy league Institution for undergrad because you you know in virtually any profession you need a master's for for real Mobility you need a master's and if you want to get into the academy you need the doctorate okay and plus some advanced studies and so uh there was a lot of people who have taken my advice um some of them even took the advice to save money at the undergraduate level by going to a community college first yeah and and all that and then go on for the Masters and so hey look even even Barack Obama took your advice he went to oxidal yeah and then he went to Harvard Law Ted Cruz took your advice he went to Princeton and then he went to Harvard yeah but he he still was at Princeton right for for the under oh but Princeton that's like that's not even a Louis Vuitton bag that's like a it's like a Louis Vuitton shopping well certain members of the Marcos family would be very disappointed in your attitude about oh that's right they they like prin well I'm just I'm just saying that uh I think you're right that uh that the the people who are the real movers and shakers they go to the business school the law school they get the PHD that's right but those of us who went to the college we we consider it that is that is the mothership that that is the we we are that is the cradle that is the Cradle of the well particularly if you're from a family where uh there hasn't been anybody you know I mean everybody's either gone to Public Schools or no college at all right well yeah it makes it makes the Mandate you know that internal mandate if the kids have it you know to go to Harvard now you know the most advanced academically I I I think I brought this up the last time we spoke a couple weeks ago uh I wasn't able to be on last week but uh um and I talked about the how quickly uh the South Asian communities you know particularly the Indian immigrants right have uh not only grown in size but grown in terms of economic proportion and most importantly political representation oh yeah right I mean we got people running for president of the United States um in the uh in the Republican party right South Asian descent yeah two of them you know and and uh one was relatively serious and she still has a significant you know uh cache you're talking about Nikki Haley voters you're talking about Nikki Haley yeah yeah Niki well actually she's now out of politics she's gone into she's gone into the uh lobbying business now well she's cross for now right you know I I think I think she'll she'll be back you know but but anyway I I agree with you she's out of it for now yeah but she's got a cushy place to land you know the economics is good so yeah but that's where that's where we are and I and I know a lot of people who uh did the uh undergrad thing and uh thought that the cachet would get them in and around when they uh when they got back to the Bay Area or or the West Coast anyway and no they were really disappointed you know some of them were in business related areas or were in you know business um and and I and I told them when they left the city uh the only thing that's worthwhile in business is is only two things and one of them is getting a masters in bad bad right business administration and the other one for undergrad is accounting yeah so if if you're not an accounting Manor in undergrad uh you're not even guaranteed a job I don't care where you went you know I don't care you went to Harvard yeah here they were really surprised they were really surprised and they were they were now I'm talking about 70s and 80s you know maybe early 90s they were really surprised and they were especially surprised by what they started to suspect was racial uh discrimination um you know in the business world oh well see here's the thing if you cut out and this is this is a link and you made the link there if you cut out affirmative action at at the higher aded level right yeah and you see it's all meritocracy you know people who go for selfish re or selfishly say I don't need affirmative action you know I'm I'm good enough on my own meritocracy etc etc they may find they may need affirmative action later on as they enter the workplace they may find that they may need what what is called affirmative and it's not a welfare handout it's just equity and fairness you know and equal shape as opposed to racism and discrimination that they would feel if you know people were left on you know left on their own yeah yeah well here's the okay if we're gonna go down that that that lane uh one of the questions that I ask of white students in my class is can you imagine a circumstance where uh uh a white individual who's applied for a job or um at a an in institution uh on the west coast which has a substantial Asian population Asian-American population can you imagine where a white person need to look at the racial discrimination and therefore uh find uh a need to at least study the law and their rights you know and assert them uh at the initial level right as a complaint uh at the uh at the emplo you know at HR right at the human resources level and they said yeah they could imagine that and I said well it's a good thing that you can because I think it's already happened there there are already institutions uh that are heavily influenced by uh people at the top Americans and then in the in the areas of HR uh also uh people especially first generation immigrants yeah you know a lot of people sociologists who studied this thing they they warned the selfish Asians say we don't you know we we we have straight A's we can get in we we we can rely on meritocracy we don't need affirmative action and it was the warning was hey wait a minute don't ditch affirmative action because you may need it later you may need a little help later when you go into the institutions of real life not higher ed not you know post post post you know your secondary education and I think what we have here when the numbers for asian-americans are about the same exactly the same as they were under the old system you didn't see a big boost you didn't see all those Asian with 4.0 is getting in and you know perfect they got rejected now do they claim oh I guess they can't claim discrimination because there was no race I guess by being against affir affirmative action you just cut yourself down to size with no complaints and yeah well yeah now the the device by which you could have made a complaint right yeah is yeah is done it's and you killed it you help you helped to kill it so you were standing there you know blaming everybody else and uh and not understanding that uh race race and racism can be very subtle okay and and that's what people find out when they get into the real world as we just said you know I had students who were complaining that they were way more uh knowledgeable about uh Asian markets and uh and and they understood the culture much better because some of them were first generation immigrants others were second generation but they were fully conversent in their parents home language so they were they said we they're they're having a stay in Hawaii uh and represent the company from there and then advise white people who are dealing with the Asians you know all over Asia from from South Korea all the way down to India you know and I said well what did you expect I thought they would rely on my my knowledge because good I'm bilingual I'm trilingual I you know I graduated from Yale with a four you know 4.0 and you know on for my masters all that stuff and I said yeah well there there's a reality there's a sociocultural reality sometimes it's subtle sometimes it's not and this is this is why in my column on the aliff blog a a df.org blog I just said a shame on you asian-americans for not having the foresight to understand that you are being used and this is gonna backfire and it's gonna you're gonna Ru the day that you said hey Harvard was discriminatory against me because they weren't and now everything has come down for everyone not yeah it's it's worse than that it's worse than that Emil they're saying that Harvard was discriminatory against me in favor of other people of color oh in favor of others okay and and the implication is their discrimination against me was wrong because those others clearly aren't qualified oh yeah so they're they're adopting white racist superiority oh oh yeah that's a little nastier is it not that is nastier than my my my knife wasn't that sharp you're you're you're going down to the bone now now you're I was a pin prick you're down to the bone now you're down to the point because they you you just said they're adopting racist views about adopting white Superior racist positions that's exactly what they're adopting this is the next step then because if maybe the numbers work out and some of those 4.0 you know uh perfect test score Asians get in then those Asians they become they adopt a white mentality they are white my my position is they had it all along because that's part of the motivation once again uh of wanting to go to Harvard Yale Princeton Etc you know um that's it that that that's that's what it's about it's they want to hold it out as a standard of proof that I'm just as good as any white person that's what you're trying to do in great part okay yeah that's the legitimate that they seek but the legitimization is based on a mythology of whiteness okay this was uncovered in many treatments uh some whole books on uh on the affirmative action for white people which is which is of course uh uh you know familial uh Legacy yes exactly familiar Legacy wealthy wealthy Legacy and uh also ath athletic Legacy I mean you don't have to be wealthy if you can throw a football what I was hoping for if they never they never said I got in to Harvard because of affirmative action but the T was would they extend that Legacy to my son or daugh you know my my right right and they could have to say hey look you know it may take it may take another generation to get someone into the law school or the business school but we'll bring him into the college didn't they rejected and my my my son went to UC UC Berkeley well wow what a sad story yeah exactly see that's the thing that's the thing the Asians back then they should have just said okay we didn't get into Harvard so what I'll get into a lot of them got into Brown Princeton yeah yeah Hammer you know like okay so was it really that bad you didn't get into Harvard so a lot of them got into Stanford or or they got into UC oh tough right yeah I I think the lesson we learned is that a lot of us I mean when looking back in history people look at how affirmative action swung the other way right they are not going to look favorably on the asian-americans nope uh and then that's another point that I tried to make earlier is how are people going to react when they see that 37% yes it's consistent with the past but that'll make them even angrier wait a minute you mean those people are getting in at almost the same rate as white people you know what they didn't put the white people statistics in there but you can bet that it's it's over 50% right so well there it is no we don't know that yeah we don't know because because the the percentage of the class for the blacks the Asians and the Hispanic it's about 65 so does that put the whites at 35 yeah I'm yeah that's right I'm I'm wondering yeah uh we should be asking what what constitutes 100% you know of the admissions right oh yeah because we don't know we don't know that they they don't get into that analysis and so we're just because we're colorblind we're still speculating but it doesn't feel good it doesn't feel like the old affirmative action which we knew we we had a sense that at least we were tilting toward Equity instead of this where we're tilting away from it well see that's the laugher right because if if uh Bloom was banking on the use of the Asians and he successful use of the asan he got himself uh the right kind of decision by the Supreme Court and and all that and if he was thinking that by eradicating those programs he was going to increase whiteness right the white represent that failed that failed miserably yeah you know I just don't know to what extent it failed right yeah being proven is that they're people of color who qualify yeah you know so yeah that was always the fear that maybe it would hurt whites that's right more than they thought affirmative action for whites is not easy not an easy thing well people don't even think about it people don't even think about it but in the 70s when I was looking at like Sumit Tomo Bank yeah right and and and other obviously you know Hank Shen you know and all and these these companies that were just establishing uh a footprint in the United States I said well let me check it out and so I'd go and look at see what their staff looked like and it looked overwhelmingly Asian okay yeah so so then all right what happens if somebody comes out with an NBA and they want to apply to these places to to get a gig you know are they going to get fair treatment or are they just going to be treated as tokens you know well that's that's it you 70s 80s 90s that was the token token period that's right and so now now we're I don't know where we're at we're the pendulum is swinging the other way where are we man where well you know this is all completely anticipable everything is completely anticipable okay I had written papers on this just before I graduated in the late 60s early 70s and you know uh I was getting A's in class but you know how far did my thinking go uh so where are we going I mean I guess we got to keep fighting we have to keep fighting for fairness okay what what has happened is the right again has succeeded in taking the word equity and substituting it for the n-word that's essentially what they've done the nword yeah if you if you are about Equity you're an end oh I see I see and yet see this is the thing it's equity for all this is why the selfishness of the asian-americans mostly Chinese Americans really didn't make sense because they deep sixed everybody they they took down the whole damn thing yep for everybody and and there there were Asian-American civil rights groups saying don't do it we're for affirmative action most asian-americans were for affirmative action but this handful of people who said I got a 4.0 I should have gotten into Harvard I was discriminated against and look at this personality test look at all this proof positive we were discriminated against they took it down for everyone yep for being selfish all right let's uh let's move on let's swish out got my swisser working Dan let let's go back to top topic a is still oh the debate still the debate all right so what we're gonna go into some factchecking but now all right I wrote a column aliff blog Asian-American legal defense and education fund alde df.org blog and I said I I was hesitant to say that KLA Harris kicked Donald Trump's butt because he was still standing and still capable of lying saying he won so it's it's sort of like a uh it's sort of like the cartoons you know you punch him and he bounces back up he doesn't down but here's the thing about about Trump uh the the other thing about about Trump is that kamla Harris well I I I I just I just thought that she wasn't as good as I'd hop she was on some specific things she relied too much on I'm I'm I'm G get I'm gonna give small businesses $50,000 I mean she kept repeating that she kept you know harping on some of the her key points I know it's a two-minute debate you know and but still uh I thought she could have been even better so I I didn't agree I didn't say she kicked his butt I said General domination a general do not Total Domination but a general domination so I was still saying that she had the upper hand but what did you think did you did she was it Total Domination was it a but it may be a shock to you but I have complete agreement with you oh well yeah see I'm I'm a moderate I'm a moderate next next topic I I uh I'm complete agreement with you I was so what disappointed that she didn't take advantage of of a couple of opportunities in particular and U one of them was uh you know you hate to go toe-to-toe with the guy every time he lies because you know 99% of what he said was was I'll give him 95% of what he said was false yeah but but uh there were a couple things that he did say that were useful I would I wanted her to counter the Zar the Border zar stuff oh yeah you know because that's one of the strongest issues really that they have and you know and so I I think that in in many places it is as strong as the abortion issue yeah she could have been more direct she could have said borders are I was in charge of this this much but there you go ex here but here's what she said that was good she said and she she's repeated this before this is a standard line of hers that says you know we we had a deal we had a bipartisan deal and yeah and you Donald Trump you you said kill this bill so so that he would have something he would have a problem to run on not a solution to run on which I thought was a good line and and then David mure I know that the ABC folks got got criticized I don't think they were unfair I thought they were very fair some I thought they could have nailed him on a bunch of stuff yeah yeah but they nailed him on this they said Mr you know Trump Mr Trump W will you comment on the border the Border deal that that you killed and Donald Trump wouldn't answer it that's right he he refused to answer it and then that but that's sort of a gift because that led to the dog and cat eating story in in Springfield Ohio so in many ways I guess that was a positive for Harris but so what do you that that's terrible though right I mean people go it's terrible that that that the general public seizes on the pets you know we they ate your pets story but Dan it's a it's about the slur it's about the fact that the only PE the only way people can relate the only way Donald Donald Trump can relate to others about the issue and immigrants is those people are so bad they're eating your dogs and cats which is a slur which is it is it is intentionally a slur to make people emotional about these people who don't belong here that that's his argument and it shows how racist and it shows how and and this is the same kind of racism we've seen throughout in American history because you know Asians were eating dogs well before the Haitians were yeah before people accuse us of being academics who only refer to textual history um have you ever had any direct experiences with racism yourself who me yeah oh yes yeah I I would say I would say definitely I was but but and I thought you were gonna say have you ever had a direct experience with dogs dog me because first of all it was cat cat cat me which I have been to a a safari game Feed years ago in the 80s and they ate lion so I guess technically I had cat uh it is it is very oily and not very I mean you know I've never eaten dog knowingly but I'm just saying that Asians have always been the people who were the purported well the Filipinos the famous dog eaters right well but when you check out other Asian cultures there's all kinds of other Asian cultures particularly Southeast Asians oh yeah yeah there there are other Asians who yeah and and and and Chinese have been known you know to to also they dabble they dabble that's a big yeah it's a standard joke for us in Asian-American studies you know you know are you gonna eat that you just a it was a standard joke you know because uh you know for a good friend of mine who passed away unfortunately a few years back right yeah uh you know eat eat everything before you die was a title from one of his books yeah well but you know D this is the standard right this is a standard racist ethnic joke and you know Asians should have felt that right to the core that oh my God he's going after them and it's wrong and it's xenophobic it's racist but it works amongst some whites today still uh some some well you think most yeah oh I I was trying to give him some benefit of the doubt that some would you know would resonate with some but not all do you think no I don't I'm not saying all either but I'm saying everybody has some level of racist Notions right some level so it's a question of degree and and and most people would readily deny that they that they think in any racist fashion whatsoever but when you establish what the standard for racism is you know what the criteria are specific standard for racism and you you establish that all you got to do is think that one race is superior to another in some way shape or form and then and then that is your minimum right criteria then everybody goes oh yeah well I guess I would have to admit that that I might at least that you know yeah at least that but when people you know even in my classes I I get students who say you know I I don't think racism affects us that much and uh so I have to go through then when they see the history they quiet down yeah they say oh just because they see the history doesn't mean they accept it but at least you know it causes them to quiet down yeah you gotta cop to the fact that there's a pattern you can see it oh my God it's still still happening today hey so Dan uh all right so there's a lot of play about the dog and the cat and yeah it's already been it's been debunked but the geese the geese they had I saw a picture online though a guy caring a goose but but you know they had this this woman Laura lumer man yeah she's been now you know she's got to be bad when margerie Taylor green this in no way in no way does she represent Marga th this is really a sad commentary that there is someone more racist than Marjorie Taylor green I mean really it scares me it scares me because I think they put her they put Laura lumer up to this make marjerie Taylor green more acceptable to everyone else say I I think that's where this is going when by comparison by comparison she she might that but that might not be good for for her reelection I mean she's in she's in the lower house man she got to run every two years so she's up yeah but she up right now and that might that might lessen her cache man her value in her in her home constitu I don't know if if she says look I'm racist but not as not as racist as Laura lumer I mean that might that might get the moderate vote over all right so you're realizing we're starting to sound real Radical by saying that would get the moderate vote right well the moderate right the moderate rightwing vot moderate right no no I liked your earlier statement better hey look I just came back from um Texas where I went to this Texas Tribune festival and uh it is you know predictably a kind of a sort of a moderate left kind of affair and if there were Republicans there now Carl Ro was there he was there and he wrote a scathing piece that uh in the Wall Street Journal the other day that really criticized uh Donald Trump um and he's the guy you know who you know Carl roly at water all those people put Bush's brain yeah put Bush's put Bush on the on the map in terms of of you know how he he is I mean Bush isn't all that much different from Trump but he's in a nicer little you know he's got the Kinder gentler dad and yeah well Dad was the origin of Kindler gentler and a thousand points of white yeah right so you know that that kind of moderates him a little bit but you know well he also well he was critical of people um uh uh endangering the lives of Muslims after you know there's a little soft spot there but you know he's so different from Trump but anyway but Carl Rove was was at this thing John Bolton there were a lot of Republicans at U the tribing Fest and the thing about it is that they were all kamla Harris supporters they were all never trumpers Lincoln project people George Conway was there I Met George Conway I said hey you're a Filipino yeah and we talked a little bit have a major interest in the area around the former uh Naval Base yeah but but I just you know I I I don't know what's um I lost my thought there about when I was talking about Republicans you were saying that they were all never trumpers and yeah Pro Harris right yeah they're all pro Harris uh I think uh I'm seeing this happening where you know Harris has gotten a bump since the debate I I she she insists she's the underdog but after seeing Donald Trump if you're a republican could you really uh back this guy I mean if you want to win I guess you do but Donald Trump is a new Joe Biden in a [Laughter] way oh oh that hurt well I'm just saying not not in terms of I mean you know he's the new he's the new that you really you know he's who he's the really old guy now yeah you know he's uh he's uh not that competent when it comes to uh following his thought pattern yeah and plus he's he's racist and misogynist as hell yeah and you know what more I mean I'll say at the Texas Tribune the I wrote about this Liz Cheney was was there and boy she she made a lot of sense on that one point because if you look at her voting record 99% of the time she's voting totally opposite you know the way I would think she's against mental health I mean not she's against funding metal health she voted against some bills I mean just just some you know basic bills that she either didn't vote for or didn't show up for I mean I but the one thing that you can age with her is that Donald Trump is not fit to be president so what does it say about American politics now you after the debate more Republicans join the I there's GNA be a lot more common ground I'm I'm hoping there's going to be a lot more common ground I you know I shouldn't say I think I'm not anticipating that to happen unless uh the Democrats do really well in the upcoming midterms after after November you know like in in uh 26 if and if they stay strong um they're able to achieve a significant amount of what they State their agenda is and if they particularly do the big thing about immigration and that's to redo the damn system um and and put more judges out there uh that's what they need to do uh you know the the Republicans blame the Democrats for all of the stuff that we're going through and the reality is the Republicans are more at fault in most instances because they're the guys who have the standard of uh lowering government uh costs and lowering government program Outreach yeah right we don't want people messing in our lives and so you know they want to cut everything they wanna they don't want to recognize they absolutely resist recognizing that uh American society has gotten so complicated that you actually need more government services uh but they're not they're not looking at that at all I mean they're they're they're insisting like this is the 1950s right post Second World War uh that everything's socialist you know that that everything the government does is all socialist and they're saying that again they're you know look at this look at what the the idiot that doesn't even know how to spell Marx uh has been saying he calls you she's a Marxist you know a grouo Marxist or so no uh you know here's the thing that you just said uh about government um the Biden Harris Administration is announcing some greenhouse gas funds to help communities it sounds good they've got tens of millions of dollars and but who can apply for this you know except existing companies who are you know climate change uh experts or climate experts I mean nothing boils down to the consumer and and these monies are targeting uh they're targeting communities that have been left behind left behind by who by the corporations that didn't want to bother with these communities so these monies are probably going to go to those companies so they can service these people and because I don't see this as a consumer thing where consumers can apply for these funds and then fix their own houses and make them Greener I mean first of all you know it's a government grant program and those things are ridiculously complex so I I just you know this is the thing about government you know this is a democratic plan but it just goes to your point about government is so complex getting grants of the government you know are so complex that you need more help you know and the people who can take advantage of this are the people who screwed up the the communities ignored the communities in the first place so I'm I'm just com I just went to a thing this morning about this government grant program and I'm just saying yeah you know we need government to be simpler to be more responsive and so that people can really access things like if someone announces funds for you know Green programs yep it should help consumers anyway uh you're you're saying it exactly I think they should follow you know after uh particularly the the really bad well wildfire season that we had like three years ago yeah where the you know everything out to the Rockies right who's burning um but and then we had the floods as well uh we didn't have that much of a hurricane season although you know that make be coming up the um uh all of a sudden the Republicans were going with you know and I say this every time you get somebody like uh Looney Bin's Rick Scott you know the former Governor of Florida I Senator you know denying that there's any kind of climate change and all the rest of that stuff and I said well you know it's going to be impossible to do that in in in another couple of years because uh half of Florida is going to flood every time the the moon goes High you know and so so uh he but he still takes that position and the people still vote for him okay so they they're going to have to suffer the consequences you know Coastal Texas uh inland mid mid Peninsula Florida and the whole Gulf Coast they're going to pay a price and this is the thing about people when they people vote wrong they don't understand what they're doing and and then when I say you know you're making a vote against your own interest they they dare me to explain to them how how that could be yeah and and and I and I ask you know what do you know about the flooding in your area what do you know about uh fire in your area I I celled a couple of friends of mine that owned property uh around the Russian River uh you know you got it I don't know I don't know you should be holding on to that this is the thing that I you know community outreach uh they rely on you know you know the press and the Press is pretty decimated and unfortunately especially local press which is really what matters yeah local press ethnic press and well what's scares me is that government tries to do these things to help and yeah you know and how how do you make sure that these monies get to the people who need them and this is this is the thing about KLA Harris and the the debate on U on Tuesday you know like if you were going to that debate and you said and you said look I'm really bothered because groceries are too high gas is too high inflation is and if you're listening to that debate and you're saying where do I find the answers you know who's talk you know who's telling me about you know who's going to like lower interest rates or mortgage rates or who's going to you know make my gas gas prices lower who's going to lower my food I mean there there's nothing direct that said oh this is why the your egg prices are going down or this is why your gas prices are going down uh at all you have is this visceral sense of I like this person I like that person this person's a liar this person's telling the truth and and then you cross your fingers and hope you don't get screwed I I that's why I don't know I think KLA Harris came across a lot better than Donald Trump who was scowling and not friendly sure sure I I I think yes for the typical um for the typical voter let's put it that way um everybody knows the the behavior pattern right that they don't really start paying attention to stuff until maybe two months at the earliest before uh before for the election and one of those signals is the opening of of uh early early balloting right when you coming up I think um yeah yeah well it's already started in in several States yeah so so that that's the signal that you maybe you ought to pay a little more closer attention so the debate from that perspective uh was really well timed yeah and I also thought that if Trump felt that he didn't do well then uh uh the likelihood would be that he wouldn't go for another debate yeah well he said he's saying he's not should he I I hope he does yeah and and because I think that uh the Harris Waltz campaign will have uh even sharper uh responses to whatever it is he throws and the thing is we already know what he's got he's already put the majority of everything that I can think of unless they can find something that's really hot blackmail you know like like uh Kamala porn or something you know Oh you mean like uh you know sort of like the Access Hollywood tapes yeah you know she says that you can grab them by the thing because you know when you're a star they let you yeah but Trump wasn't hurt by that during the Clinton uh you know campaign I think he was helped I think on the on his the Trumper side I think he was helped by it well let's I think a lot of guys especially men of color I think they really said that was cool and you know they're gonna vote for him just because they're misogynistic as hell all right so now you mentioned it uh first and uh this has come up what is the thing about men of color and kamla Harris they don't like her they uh are they're moving toward Trump in larger numbers than people would think well what's going on not I am not a psychologist or a psychiatrist okay however however however I I know quite a few and uh and voting for Trump one that was close to me personally was an African-American psychologist okay PhD Psychology uh longterm uh uh colleague in the College of ethnic studies and and she was in Black studies well it's Africana studies now but you know we her office was only two doors down from mine and so we we had conversations about everything all the time and she would lend me books you know if I if I was curious about something you know so anyway uh Laura headed is her name I I you know and she passed away several years ago uh it was a gross loss and she was a she was an AKA by the way so she was and her students uh were also AKA and when uh Linda and I my wife and I attended her commemoration uh a lot of her students came over to to say hi um and I you know you you lose track after a few years who specifically was in your class but but uh Linda was really impressed with the fact that they they kept on saying how much they enjoyed my class and all the rest of that stuff but Laura was a fantastic mentor to these young women and she she said very simply oh and and one of her other colleagues who is a social scientist but not a not a psychologist the the two of them said this black men don't like women who are who may be they fear women who may be smarter than them okay and and they want women to look more you know to have straight hair and look more like white women or Asian women you know so if you've got a a higher education okay and and if you wear your hair in a natural and both of these women uh I'm talking about in African studies had wore their hair natural they they said we're people are men are less likely to be attracted to us okay and more likely to be attracted to the other and then they said very simply all you got to do is look at hipop all you got to do is look at rap culture all you got to do is look at everything after the 50s when when when women found out that they could get hair relaxer that that didn't fry their hair off you know that was a little safer and and they're right uh a lot of African-American men and a lot of Latinos really don't like uh women who are uh potentially more smarter than they are you know more intelligent particularly if they have academic status wait I I can't believe that it's it boils down to that kind of a sexist thing I mean they're not talking about her policy they're not talking about you know what what she stands for they just look at her and say oh she's an African-American woman hey I've had I've I've this has been right in my face I've had African-American men say is she even black I mean you know and I said what you're buying into you're buying into the criticism that you just turned black and they go well you know you mean she's half she's half you know Indian and I said the hell what the hell difference does that make what difference did it make that Obama has was half white actually you know the way you said that quoting your black friend black male friend sounds just like what Donald Trump said at nabj well sometimes is she black I just you know yeah you know it the criticism and and that came up in the debate and it was all like it was dismissed it was not it came up like in the last 20 minutes but it was almost like it like almost old news but it's it's not apparently for for some in the community well after the debate I was watching I was switching back and forth between uh all of the stations but particularly uh CNN and MSNBC had panels right and uh I think I I want to be sure but I I am not absolutely sure but MSNBC had a c yeah was MSNBC they had a couple of members of their panel uh and and I was interested in their panel particularly because they had a Latino uh younger guy he he looked like he was in his 30s at the oldest and they had an African-American uh you know uh what what African-Americans call a Lighty you know he was