Ellie Simmonds: Making impact beyond the pool

[Music] hello and welcome to the game changers I'm Su anus and this is the podcast where you'll hear from trailblazing women in sport exploring their stories as we consider wider issues around equality in sport and Beyond I'd like to start with a big thank you to our partners sport England who support the game changers to a national lottery award [Applause] my guest today is Ellie Simmons one of the world's most celebrated paralympians a five-time Paro Olympic champion and 14 time world champion Ellie shot to fame when she won her first par Olympic medals age just 13 at the Beijing par Olympic Games after two gold medals there in 2008 Ellie went even better at London 2012 as a poster girl for the home games she won four medals including two Golds and broke two World Records the success in London helped Ellie become one of the most recognized par Olympic athletes in Great Britain if not the world Rio 2016 saw Ellie once again top of the podium winning another gold and setting a new world record in the individual medal Ellie retired from the pool in 2021 after her fourth par Olympic Games in Tokyo finishing her career with an incredible five par Olympic goals 14 World titles 10 European titles and countless World Records broken along the [Music] way Ellie continues to work with a variety of Charities including the dwarf Sports Association Water Aid the scouts and I am water in recent years it's been fabulous to see ell's work in the media along with making powerful documentary Al has been a guest on some of the country's most popular shows including celebrity goggle box celebrity Master Chef which she won and her appearance on BBC Strictly Come Dancing last year which cemented her status as one of the nation's most well-loved personalities so Ellie I'd like to start if I can with the work that you're doing now um and especially around the working with the oceans I know that ocean conservation's been a passion of yours for many many years so can you tell us how that interest started in the first place yeah I think for me like I love water not just because it's been my Sport and my life for so so many years Larn to swim at the age of five and then with what I've gone and done the par Olympics and World Championships and smelling of chlorine every single day a bar Sunday sometimes if I could get it off me and but yeah for me I was loved water but there was always a bit of that fear of the ocean I think a lot of people have the are a bit scared of the ocean I think it's always portrayed in quite a negative way in the media know with the likes of Jaws and all that type of stuff and I had this amazing opportunity I've always had a dream you know when you you you're a kid you have dream of like swimming with dolphins or swimming in the sea and I had a dream of swimming with Dolphin way back in 2016 before my third par Olympics in Rio I got an amazing opportunity to go out South Africa and swim with Dolphin for an ITV documentary and it was about conquering that fear and since I had that trip and coner that fear it's enlightened my world it shown me such a different side and now my love for the ocean and what's out there has grown so I went on that trip as well I got friendly with a lady called Hanley prino who's actually a free diver and also it as well it clicked because of her training was all about holding her breath and with swimming as well like it was really important for me to try and hold my breath as long as possible and really get in that meditated state of super real when you're racing and stuff so we worked really really well together and we clicked and her training like I learned from her a lot with my training and we just yet got really really good friends and she's also so so passionate about ocean conservation in South Africa because that's where she lives and she's got a charity called I am water which um I started like getting involved in and and actually volunteered some of my time and and went to South Africa for a month afterwards and stuff and it just yet opened my world and I feel right now there's so much more we can do about oceans and saving that massive massive world out there because majority of this world is covered by water even us in the United Kingdom we've got rivers lakes you know in Birmingham there the canals and we've got the sea around us and it's so important that we show people what the beauty that is out there and to save it as well and especially in the media now there's all about climate change which is is impacting every single one of us and I think sometimes we get that but actually it is and it's really really important that we all do something about it and to not just save this planet but save this beautiful oceans and the creatures that are in them and can you tell us a little bit about the the Shea Coral restoration program you've been supporting I've been watching on Instagram and seeing the amazing posts that you've played there oh that's been an incredible opportunity so I've been working with Shiva and who are part of Mars corporations and um their one of their initiatives is coral restoration and for me that just fits and is part of my passion as well about saving not just the creatures but also Coral as well because Coral has a it's like trees in the ocean so I've been very very lucky to go out to Indonesia and to see one of the projects and meet full hand the whole community that is getting part of the coral reef restoration but now it's not just it started in Indonesia way back in 2019 but now there's so many other countries that are following that program so it's spread to I think 32 countries now are um using this whole Coral restoration program to to make change into the oceans and yeah it was definitely one of those trips that I absolutely loved and it just again opened my eyes to that beautiful world out there it's lovely and a power of you of me only seeing that through watching your Instagram and seeing what you're doing and learning too so it's a hugely powerful way to communicate about it too and I wonder what's it like now swimming with a mask and fins and you know in a wet suit rather than being in the pool does it bring you the same joy in the in the sea and swing in the sea yeah no it does definitely I think that's now my love you know for a different type of water give me a bit of sea salt you know I'm not still not a fan of getting my mask or goggles filled with water when I was a swimmer that was one of my massive fears of when I used to race I used to try and suck my goggles to my eyes so that like no water would get in but I think for me now like I've swam for so many years like I love swimming and I love everything about it but I think I need the need a bit of a mental break from that that lane swimming so now it's like yet it's changed to wearing a wet suit wearing a mask a snorkle getting into the sea but I absolutely love it I'm I'm still not a fan of cold water you know so I'm give me hot sea and I'm I'm happy you know but coldy is definitely a different ball game I'm a cold water fan so I I'll have to get you get you involved in that more I love cold water yeah this Open Water Swimming is it's gone huge and I I'm so so so happy about it I saw on your show your movie chatting to people that were open oh actually you were Open Water swimming at the start yeah and doing in that Lake and yeah it's a massive passion and it's amazing that so many people are getting into that passion and getting into that um thing that of Open Water swimming and swimming because it's I again I've not done it I've only done it in hot places but I think it's quite liberating isn't it and it wakes you up and it starts your day and just swimming in cold water yeah good for the soul I say good for the soul so I wonder if I can take you out of the ocean and back into the pool but the young Ellie you talk about that kind of love of swimming that you had so how did you first Discover it how did you first come to swimming um so it started at the age of five do you know just like in majority of children out there just learning to swim to be safe around the water I'm from a big big family I've got three sisters and one brother and my parents gave them the opportunity to learn to swim and I remember sitting at the sidelines watching my sister swiming and next thing I know it was me learning to swim so it wasn't a factor of like this is what I'm going to do for the rest of my life it was just because to be safe around the water but actually where I learned to swim in Bow swiming Club in in suon coold field in Birmingham it wasn't just a learn to swim side of the swimming club there was also a competitive side as well and me I've even now as a as a 28y old I've throughout my life I'm very very competitive and when I was younger I was um do you know when you're young you want to get your 10 meter badge your 20 meter badge all these different types of badges that was me I wanted to get everything I was like I want to be better every single time I swim and where I learned to swim the coach at the time Ashley Cox used to come to the learn to swim side and the swimming club and used to come and say like oh like this is the competitive side this is like the training we think you might be good for it come and come and try it out and yeah I just ended up going and learning and swimming for the competitive side of the swimming club and when I was younger I didn't just swim I did so many other activities as well I was very much I think my mom was very happy that I was the youngest because I was always doing something I was never one of those children that could sit and watch TV like that wasn't me I was never sit and watch TV type person I was always doing either like ballet stage School swimming even outside on my bike you know in the in the C act playing with friends or on the trampoline and for me like swimming ended up just taking over because I realized that actually I just loved it because of the friends I say I'll swimming once a week I remember going home to to my mom and saying well Ashley said if I want to be a bit better I need to swim a bit more so all the other activities would end up going and I'll be doing like swimming twice a week three times a week and then on the weekends I started swimming for my swimming club competitively at the local gers on a weekend and there's are loads of children out there that do that like they called didy GTH and I just loved it like I absolutely loved swimming competitively and I I didn't do well like but it was actually more just the fact that what I realized Looking Back Now which Ashley and Bal swimming club were amazing at was including me like everyone else like yes I had to work harder but they were so good at adapting and treating me like every single other child out there even though I didn't swim well for the swimming club I didn't get them points or anything but for me it was just being part of that team being part of the Friendship going on the mini bus like everyone else being part of that whole team just brought me so much joy and it was so amazing and I think like now I say to to coaches out there in clubs like if you have a disabled swimmer treat them exactly the same as anyone else because it gives them so much joy and being part of it is just it's just life changing and I think having to work that bit harder to keep up with my non-disabled P actually made me work harder so now I think that's why in a sense what I've achieved because of when I was younger I wanted to be with them I wanted to keep up with them and at those scarers I wasn't yeah wasn't winning but I still just loved it but I think the life-changing moment was actually watching Athens 2004 par Olympics because at that time even before that 9 10 year old I didn't know that there was disability gers I didn't know there was actually disability competitions I was just like I said competing for my swing club against non-disabled athletes um but that turning point was Athens 2004 sitting on that sofa and realizing that there's people like me on the TV that there's Paralympics swimming that there is the Paralympics and I remember saying to my mom like how old do you have to be to go to the paral Olympics what do you have to do and my mom was like oh you just have to be really really good you can be any age well there is an age limit there's 12 you have to be older than 12 but um and I think as a kid like that was when my dreams started I was like I want to be a par Olympian I want to get a gold medal that is my dream never thinking that it was going to be achieved or four years later I was going to achieve it but that was the starting point and I think that's why TV and coverage of not just the Olympics but Paro Olympics and sport in general is so powerful because you never know who's sitting on the sofa and can get inspired and eventually maybe become an Olympian or par Olympian absolutely absolutely just find the joy for for life isn't it and I I've watched your incredible moving documentary my secret family on on ITV for those that haven't seen it yet I would advise that they do which is it was absolutely fantastic but it really does paint a lovely picture of home life and such a happy happy childhood that you have so how did your dwarfism impact your young life growing up because from all you described and and all that you did as a young person it doesn't feel like it was as negative as some might believe no no no not not at all it's never really impacted me I think again from the big family that I have and growing up and my parents have been amazing at just treating us and showing us that we can do anything no matter what like we might have to adapt um so I think they gave me re a really really good outlook on life from growing up to to where I am now so I think in a what sense like having that Outlook of life and having those parents that gave me such a positive childhood and a great child it's just yeah no had no no no impact at all and this next next to me has dwarfism and my sister has learning difficulties so I've always been around people who have different disabilities and I think again that's been a really really positive thing and you obviously had this huge success as a as a young swimmer was there a moment you can look back when you think back and remember when you realize that you were so good in the pool I think it was actually Beijing in 2008 I think that was the turning point because I think like before that I was just doing what I loved and I still love it now but I mean I was just a kid you know I was 12 13 I was just competing swimming and not really thinking about it just having fun with friends having fun fun with the team and going away all the time and I again I qualified had an amazing 2018 trials in April qualified for the Paralympics never but even then not like that was the first first time I ever broke a world record even then I never realized that actually I was good I think it was actually going into Beijing and getting the gold medal and especially that first one in the 100 meters freestyle I think that's when it clicked that actually oh my gosh Ellie you're the best in the world you've just got a par Olympics but I think sometimes like I know even looking back now in my career I think when you're an athlete you never really look back at your past career you're always moving forward and I think I've always been like that and a sense maybe Looking Back Now I should have and stopped a bit more and really really took in like my achievements and really took in those moments where I swam well or got medals or got gold medals or stood on the podium because I was always thinking forward all the time like even in Beijing like we were going to those games for experience and then we knew that we had London 2012 which was going to be the biggest games biggest par Olympics ever so even in Beijing I was just yeah was thinking forward which I think now looking back I probably should have stopped and taken it in a bit more absolutely you moved to Swansea with your mom when you were just 11 so you could train at the world class facility with a Elite Squad how hard was that as you look back to leave hom and go friends and and friendship groups at that time you know what actually like it was the best thing I've ever done like I loved my Swansea time and I think it shows like just how incredible my parents are for making that sacrifice and that dedication to give me the amazing opportunity to train in Swansea with Billy pie who I started training with when I was 12 and I retired with him with 28 we've gone through my whole career together and he's not just the most amazing coaches but he's my best friend and family friend now and I see him like I went hiking with him on the weekend in Wales and stuff so to have that relationship with him from all those years but I think for me like hand up I don't think I would have done what I did in my career if we hadn't made that that move and to credit to my parents for the sacrifice and stuff but for me it was the the most amazing thing I got to go to to Swansea and train in a par Olympic Squad who who were like family it was the best years there was 12 of us training towards Beijing and training towards towards London 2012 and we were like family we were not just training together all the time but we used to go out in the evening you know celebrate everyone's birthdays go away on camps all the time and then also the school in Swansea Oka I moved to when I was in year seven and left um in after six form was the most amazing school and Welsh people I don't know if you see if you've been to Wales but Welsh people are the most friendliest people ever like they're literally so so nice and they welcome me into the school and welcome me into Swansea like like a massive bear hug it was just the most amazing time and I still go back to whales like like I said I went last weekend and I've still got great friends and family and well not family but they are like family to me in Wales and still it it it was the most great seven years of my my life in terms of the Paralympics and and being in Beijing you were the youngest person in that team at 13 which we often talked about but did you really feel that you were included as part of a team with those older swimmers there yeah I think you know what I think when you're a kid when you're 13 you don't really think of the pressure because I think you're still a kid aren't you and I think it's not till like in 2012 and Beyond you actually realize how big a par Olympics is and actually take like the outer World on board but for me going as a 13-year-old going to Beijing and then afterwards my teammates my friends my British women team were the most amazing team ever like the likes of Liz n all the girls and all the boys like took me just under their wing and like I'm best friends with all of them still now like it was just I was so thankful for that that they looked after that they yes like you said I was the youngest person by quite a long time on the team but they were like my my big sisters they were just the most amazing teammates amazing friends ever they they even included me in everything you know in not the drinking or the I couldn't go out with them which I was always so sad about I had to stay stay in the hotel when I was 18 on the team I was so happy because I could join in all the party in but beforehand I was like oh no but no they're so good like all of them and during the team and I think that's one of the amazing things about the support team of British women like we had someone to help with school work again I was off school a lot of times like I did my gcss in a Spanish school when we were training I did my a levels abroad as as well like I was away from school quite a lot didn't realize that wow that is incredible I was ask I was going to ask you about that balancing for those two Olympic cycles of school but I hadn't even thought about that you're literally not being there at all moving on to London 2012 you're at 17 years old then and you're like the poster girl for the London Paralympics so what kind of pressure did you feel ahead of those games when you almost talked about going into Beijing and not having the pressure but how different did it feel coming into London 2012 oh London 2012 was a different kettle of fish the pressure on not just my shoulders but I think a lot of the Home British athlete soldiers was immense and I think in a way of what I had achieved in Beijing with those two goals and then coming home as soon as I landed from Beijing I think maybe the media sponsors just like attached themselves to me um which was good but it also had it like and ner racking things as well because again being like one of the home favorite it just meant that the pressure was immense because people even before I was going to London and even before I raced people were expecting me to get those Golds already and it just created a massive massive pressure on my shoulders and I think going into those those games real made me realize how important psychologists were and my support team like my parents and my coach because they really helped like chat things through really focus on the psychological side of the sport whereas before that I really didn't take it that on board I was just going out racing where actually the mental side had a massive part to play in it so for me London 2012 was just the most nerve-wracking experience and when I got that first go medal I think the feeling had changed like with Beijing it was all amazing when I got the gold it was just incredible was the when I touched the wall on first 400 meters freestyle and S I did the PB and world record and gos the feeling was relief that i' done it that I could finally say I got a gold medal around my neck and all those expectations and pressure from sponsors the public sport the people in the crowd all of those like I could finally say I've got the gold medal and it was just yet relax after that like I've just done it and I think I hear like a lot of athletes actually felt that in L in 2012 especially home athletes you know because there was a lot of being the home games we had home crowd you know had friends family in the audience in the audience I'm sounding like I'm back on St in the in the spectators you know but yeah I was gonna say as I had that image of you from London of walking on PO side in your fantastic robe with your poison posture and a head phones and you kind of look so confident so it is interesting I was going to ask you whether you whether you were as you looked but I guess so much of that is the psychology of putting yourself in a place where you know that you can do it and and just to be po side on the Aquatic Center do you still think about that today what that was like gives me Goose pumps thinking about it and I wasn't even there yeah it's funny I think there there's that Eminem song isn't there on the surface you look calm already but in the side you're about to drop bombs and that was totally my feeling like coming from the C room to to the dive Block in London 2012 I was trying to like be positive and strong but actually inside I was so nervous I was the nervous the most nervous I've ever been and I was shaking and I was thinking why am I putting myself through this it's a horrible horrible feeling but then that's when my psychologist all her work that she done with me had a massive part to play and also the confidence in yourself as well that moment of self-belief you know I'd done everything I've possibly could in training and I had the most amazing lead up to 2012 because that's what I wanted to do I even though you can't control your seven other competitors my stance going into those games was don't have any regrets at all so in myself I was strong and like confident in myself but also very very nervous and yeah I don't actually want to go back through to that feeling to be honest because it was a horrible feeling of the nerves and all that type of stuff and but so yeah I'll just enjoy it from now looking back but I will definitely don't want to transport myself back to that feeling I love that you've obviously you've had this massive success across your career right from the start but there must have been disappointments too and losses and injuries so I wonder personally how do you cope when things aren't going to plan and I I've listened to you talking on the things I know that you're quite a planner an organized person but how do you cope when things don't go to plan to be honest I'm a bit of a I spoke to some kids yesterday about it who are athletes and I must put my turned up I was quite a sore loser definitely very much a sore loser and I'll take it a lot out of myself like I'll never blame other people but I would always like get so angry and so upset with myself because I would evaluate what did I do wrong but actually those times looking back in my career now those times where I didn't go to plan like races or I didn't win or something didn't go right actually I learned more about myself than when things went well I remember like I had a race I think I can't remember I remember just being in um einthoven in Holland and I had a 53 that just did not go right and as soon as I I I finished I and I looked at the boards and I got upset with myself and had a good cry that's what I always do like let these emotions out and then as soon as I swam down and then as soon as I got my team around me and we sat down and we evaluated everything and actually then the next day and after my holiday and after my break I was so much more motivated going into training because I was like I don't want to have that feeling again I want to do everything I can and even better next time so actually those times where it didn't go well I just evaluated my R my races a lot more was when a race went really really well I would just be as high as a kite all night and the next day and I'll never actually look back at them and evaluate what went well and what didn't so actually looking back yeah I learned a lot more about myself and my race and my swimming when races didn't go to plan yeah it's hard isn't we hear that with that kind of it's the the failure and learning from fa that's where we'll learn and grow but it's hard to take that on board sometimes isn't it either as an athlete or just generally so also as well I think what I learned later on in life we going from Rio to to to Tokyo and I think maybe age had a massive factor with like being a woman as well and being on your period that really affected my training I used to take it really really out on myself when sessions didn't go well but then also now well when I was older I used to think we're not robots are we there's some days where sessions aren't going to go well like our body's not going to be on it all the time we're just going to have those sessions where you just don't swim well and there's no other reasons but especially like when I was on my period and like again I said mentioned my coach knew me from so so many years and he would be like Al are you feeling okay like what's coming on like what time of the month is it all that type of stuff and we were a really great to have that open relationship and talk about those types of stuff because I think being a woman in sport is is is tough when you're on your period or coming on your period and stuff and yeah I think it's not really spoken about much I mean it's great to hear you're talking about it but it is it does feel like right now with the work that the likes of Emma Ross and uh Georgie brunville and others are doing in this space as we are now beginning at last to have those conversations about bodies and periods and how we how imps it's Madness isn't it that it wasn't talked about in the past yeah I know it is crazy but like you said there's some amazing women and people that are searching and doing some research and finding out because it does it does have a massive impact and so many people are different like for me I always used to performed so so good after my period but it took me ages to figure that out it was later on in my career that I realized that maybe it should have been at the start you know I think women we need to be open a lot more and not just it's not our fault at all but I mean like the people just yeah be able to talk about it in a comfortable Manner and you mentioned obviously your fantastic coach from from Swansea you had such a positive experience there and that's continued through uh and obviously reflected in your success in Beijing and London but but sadly there were issues with a bit of a bullying culture in Paris swimming ahead of Rio 2016 and you'd moved to Manchester to the high performance center so I wonder how that hostile environment with with that coach not the coach that you had for all those years uh but how did that impact you and your performance you know what um I think actually it still impacts me sometimes now oh W and I don't haven't really yeah I think it's it's crazy when you you're I think this it shouldn't be like when you're in an environment that someone is putting you down every single day and something that you think you're good at and they tell you you're not good at it it's those words it's the mannerisms and it's it definitely has a massive massive impact and especially when you're performing at in sport it's it's hard it's pressurized it's hard it's not easy like it's not something like yeah you see us at um at a Paralympics or an Olympics and it's all amazing but there's it's it's tough like especially swimming it's you're in the costume you know I remember I used to be I was so skinny like looking back I remember I used to weigh myself every single day I used to have like half a bagel because I was worried about my weight and it was a very very tough time but also as well I look back and I think it made me now realize that like people like that who who put people down like now I've got more confidence to to stand up for myself but also my teammates as well and hopefully as well it's given a wakeup call to to British women but also in sport in general that that shouldn't be you know it's about being when you've got a coach or when you've got your team your your team around you that they should work to in to to better you not just as an athlete but as a person and putting yourself down and telling you using that old characteristic W and that old style of coaching just doesn't work to have that open relationship and talking and to to support the person as a human and not just an athlete yeah it it's better but you live and learn and stuff and yeah he's not that individual isn't in the sport hopefully not but I don't know and do you think that British sport is better now in terms of find that balance between athlete welfare and the pursuit of Olympic and Par Olympic medals I can I can only vouch for swimming but I think it's getting better I think what's happened in the past they've learned from it um again I'm not much into that world at the moment so I don't know but um from when we had our moments and the time in in Rio and afterwards it definitely changed but again I hope it has and I hope it's staying in the positive way and I hope it continues and you learn from it and I know that British gymnastics and gymnastics as a whole has had it and it's happened a few times in sport and hopefully for future athletes and not just the youngsters Grassroots and Olympians paralympians that it doesn't happen absolutely thank you for that your retirement had huge publicity in 20121 There's real outpouring of love and emotion from people who' found such joy in in following your performance over those years so I wonder as you look back at that time you know if if you had to think of one or two achievements of the the medals that you are most proud of is that probably a question you're often asked but but it are there moments or is it the kind of hole of your career you reflect on you know but I think like definitely my whole career but I think for me if I could say one thing it was London 2012 I think it wasn't just because I had a great great games and I swam the best I ever had with personal best in the Heats personal best in the finals and having the whole medal collection as well was really nice even though I think it would have been nice to get a you know an an go but I got s of bronze and I absolutely love it because I can look I've got all the colors and from 2012 but I think for me just being El to be part of that change in perception of disability and Paro Olympic sport and saying I was able to be included in that you know and I think what 2012 did wasn't just change perception of disability sport but changed deception of disability in society and I think it was a catalyst and it was the most amazing thing to see and be part of because the likes of the last leg the likes of disability and Society was changing and it still needs to get better still even though in 2023 but it was that changing point then and people were wanting to come and watch us the tickets were getting sold the venues were packed out people not just in the media but in the crowds in London in the United Kingdom people were just Glu to the TV and to the success of the British par Olympic athletes and just par Olympics as a whole it was just the most amazing thing to be part of and we we talk a lot today don't we about how hard it is for elite athletes to transition from sport especially after such high-profile careers as you had for such a long time too so how has that been for you that new identity Beyond Ellie Simmons the extraordinary par Olympic champion I think for me I was always a bit like I always knew going into Tokyo I wanted to retire and I think that was really nice to be in control of that but there's always that fear isn't it of that unknown and especially for me and loads and loads of athletes out there swimming or your sport is your a massive identity of yourself it was huge for me I have a plan like you said every single day I knew where I've got to be every single day you've got your four years plan youve got your year plan your month plan your week plan and all of a sudden you come off that plane and it's like wow like what am I going to do tomorrow let alone next week or in a few months and yeah it's quite liberating it's really really nice but it's also a bit scary as well but it's been a very much of a roller coaster like I've been able to do some incredible amazing things like strictly like the two documentaries I've done like TV stuff and meet some amazing people but there has been days where it's a bit like what actually is it what I want to do you do get a bit lost and stuff but a majority of the time it is I've had a great retirement so far and it's actually two years since I've retired so two years has definitely flown by but um yeah it's been a really really good so far career in life and it's been wonderful to see you working in sport now you're out of the pool but still pool side and you are real natural I think it's great to see you reporting and commentating at the world swimming championship with the lovely Ashley Wilmer I'm a massive fan of Ashley yeah um so I just wonder was that was that second nature to you that being with the microphone and just talking or or were you really out of your comfort zone there you know what I love it like I really really enjoy it and like you said to still be part of the sport and to still do the swimming like again having that amazing opportunity last year at the Commonwealth Games and then they share at the world swimming championships and we've got the Paris Olympics and Par Olympics next year so hopefully that but yeah I think like it's always learning isn't it and I've been able to speak to CLA balding who oh my gosh she is the most talented amazing woman and you just learn from her every single day and the loveliest human ever and she's so so nice and to to learn from her and to see her do her thing and stuff and to watch her and then yeah just I think I learn every single time I do it and like I'd still I have cock-ups I have times where it goes wrong and stuff but we're healing you know and I do get super super nervous because I just want to I want to do a good job and I want to do a good job not just for me but for the sport and for the channel I'm working for but it it's been really really fun to to have a mic and to interview the athletes and to just be involved in sport I heard you talk about the beautiful flow that comes from being at the very best of yourself and how you used to find that in the pool so I wonder kind of where you're finding that in life today and whether you got that in strictly and that learning of new uh skills and so on yeah um I think that I did strictly was the most amazing experience ever like it was so so lovely and to learn how to dance and stuff was just fabulous even like you know for me being a swimmer for a long long time smelling of chlorine all the time H normally having my hair in a bun you know wearing swimming costumes you know and that whole different world of like having fake turn on getting my hair done makeup done dresses all that type of stuff wearing heels every day and you know that was tough because I the blisters that I got but just that whole different world and open up my eyes to it and to to be partnered with Nikita and to learn how to dance and to do that most amazing thing and to also as well to like we had a lot of people question as well what we were going to do again he's an average hype person I've got dwarfism we weren't the stereotypical size for like Ballroom or Latin and people were questioning how we were going to dance and he's love danced with someone like me before and I've never danced really like well never done Latin or Ballroom apart from say your Saturday nights you know when you're at a disco and things you're like raving or do pulling out those classic moves but um it was just the most amazing experience and then afterwards not just doing the show but getting to go on the tour as well and being like a rock star for six weeks doing 32 shows all across the country was just life changing and the most amazing experience ever and whoever I say go do strictly it's just yeah do it literally just say yes it's so fabulous oh it's lovely I love it a big fan big fan of so I guess finally it's been such a joy to follow your career over the past 20 OD years and yet you'd be very justified in choosing a a quieter life now but I don't feel that's the you're likely to take so I just wonder what are your Ambitions you've had this two years since retirement but do you have kind of Ambitions for what you'd like to do what you like to achieve in the future you know what and normally I am very driven and very much know what I want to achieve but actually like still I've not really got any goals or Ambitions like I'd love to be part of the par Olympics and go to Paris next year and see it from a different side like that's definitely a massive dream of mine but away from that you know I'm just taking each day as it comes and just saying yes to all these amazing opportunities and not knowing where I want to be in a couple years time I I definitely want to give back a bit more I want to help more children and help more people with different disabilities as well that's definitely a big ambition of mine and also my massive hobby is also traveling I love traveling and seeing the world and seeing how beautiful it is and just yeah also as well getting like my confidence back as well and just traveling on my own and just being okay on my own and things that's definitely a massive ambition of mine but helping people bit more giving back and yeah traveling I think that's my free ambition [Applause] actually how lovely is Ellie what a joy to hear more about her career and all she's doing now if you enjoy the podcast there are over 160 episodes featuring conversations with Trailblazers in women's sport and they're all free to listen to on podcast platforms or at the Fearless women website Fearless women.co previous guests include Elite Sports women broadcasters coaches administrators scientists and CEOs from a vast range of sports the whole of my book game on the Unstoppable rise of women's sport is also free to listen to on the podcast every episode of Series 13 is me reading a chapter of the book thank you once again to sport England for backing the game changers through a national lottery award and also thanks to Sam Walker at what goes on media who does such a fantastic job as our EX executive producer thank you also to my brilliant colleague at Fearless women Kate [Music] [Applause] Hannon do follow us to make sure you don't miss out on future episodes and if you have a moment to leave us a lovely five-star review or rating that would be fantastic as it really does help us to reach new audiences come and say hello on social media where you'll find me on LinkedIn Twitter and Instagram at sue anstis the game changers Fearless women in sport