Donald Trump's outspoken niece is back revealing even more personal stories of what she calls her family's deep dysfunction in her new book who could ever love you a family Memoir Marielle Trump details how her father Freddy endured years of insults from his younger brother Donald Trump and his father Fred Trump senior Mary describes how that abuse decimated her father Freddy's confidence and set him down a path ultimately leading to his death at age 42 following a struggle with alcohol and Mary L Trump joins us now I guess we'll start there thank you for coming on the show um but Fred Trump senior you describe him as a sociopath who was incapable of loving anyone yeah first of all it's it's wonderful to be here thank you for having me than for coming on um Fred Trump as I say was was a straight up sociopath uh and I mean that diagnostically not colloquially uh he had he and my grandmother had five children and I think you could describe every single one of them as a destroyed human being uh we see this with Donald the result of growing up in a family that didn't have any love uh that had no real affection and uh a family in which honestly money was the only currency uh so the ethos in the family was the more you have the more you're worth right in every sense of the word and I think good to point out for those who don't know it you have a degree in Psychology correct yeah yes I have a PhD in Clinical Psychology okay so does that help give you a little bit more insight into what you're what you were seeing because as a younger person it must have been very confusing actually as a kid and I think this is true for most of us it was normal it's how our families are exactly you knew families are closed systems it's very difficult to see what goes on inside other people's families or to compare uh so it yes it wasn't until I actually sat down to write my first book that I started thinking about my family through the lens of a clinician and it was very revelatory um I don't think it helped me in any particular way but it helped I think other people make sense of what was going on so tell us a little more if you would about the relationship between your father and his brother Donald Trump because there have been a moments where Donald Trump as president has spoken about uh his his brother even with a for him a little degree of emotion loss there um but you say that that relationship was also deeply tortured yeah honestly uh they were so many years apart that they didn't really grow up together my dad was almost eight years older and because he was the oldest son and the namesake the burden was on him so for many years the younger children in my family and my aunt marann who was the oldest but a girl were essentially ignored by my grandfather so Donald had the benefit of watching how my grandfather placed all of the onus on my dad to become the killer to become the man who would take over the Empire and fail uh so he saw how my dad got dismantled as soon as my grandfather realized that Freddy was not going to cut it whatever that meant in my grand grandfather's uh point of view so it wasn't until much later when Donald sort of leap frogged my dad to become the president of trump management after my dad had worked there for 11 years and my dad sort of fell away because of his illness and because of his perceived failures that Donald took over the mantle and uh their relationship actually became um more of the conquered and the Conqueror uh there was never any competition my dad didn't see Donald's competition he was so much younger and he knew what his role was supposed to be so it wasn't until the end of my Dad's life uh that it became obvious uh that he was completely cast off and the only person in the family who mattered was Donald speaking of Donald is there one incident and I I know you've written about this about him that was kind of a tell of where he was ending up as a human being remember anything as a young person yeah I I mean he just never seemed interested in other people uh it was all about what he was doing his his accomplishments his successes or his perceived accomplishments I should say and uh it it was he was very much the same person then as he is nowt way who said this that was actually from my first uh my first piece of hate mail which I got when I was in fifth grade some Anonymous parent had their child write a letter to my mom uh about what an awful person I was and I still I don't know who wrote it I don't know what the motivation was and why did you make it the title of the book because I sort of how I grew up uh I grew up feeling that I was not lovable that I was not worthy of my place in the world and pretty much like everybody else in my family although I didn't know it at the time um I felt I had to justify find ways to justify my existence but unfortunately all of us were doing it to people who didn't care