Reacting to the New Statement on Wearing LDS Garments with Hayley Clark | Third Hour | Episode 35

Intro I think modesty in terms of what I know the end goal is like that is I think that that I'm not trying I'm trying to make sure play correct but I think I think without a doubt modesty and woman being a to be modest now is is a Heavenly power I think they they're orain with some kind of power that I don't even think men if they were women could pull off so why do I wear garments and like having a little moment of introspect introspection I think that's the word but like really like okay okay this is why I'm doing this and like a recommitment to it instead of just feeling frustrated by my garments I'm like this is symbolizing Jesus Christ and what an honor it is for to be to be wearing this right now right right hey guys welcome back to the Third Hour podcast my name is Mimi basum and I'm joined by my co-host Bachelor Johnson how are you I'm good I am hyped to be here we're so excited to have you back bachelor's obviously just like the biggest star and so it's it's an honor when we get to chat with him so thanks for coming I'm glad got the invite to be here so and we have another like star with us here too Bard her with questions literally we're so excited to have Haley Clark how are you Haley I'm great I haven't seen you like for a good minute it's been a long time we've both had like babies I think since since we've seen each other so good to see you too okay so Haley is an entrepreneur um I feel like people know you a lot from your content on Instagram you talk a lot about modesty and garments and so that's going to be a lot of what we talk talk about today we're going to get into the real questions we're going to get into some tea there was actually some recent tea I maybe I shouldn't call it tea is that like there's some not even controversy it's not even bad but there was a recent Instagram post from the church that we'll kind of dive into as well we'll talk about being a mom and being in the workforce um but we wanted to start by just asking you you could tell us a little bit about yourself oh yeah um I mean the most interesting thing about me is that I'm a convert like I think Hayley’s conversion story & business that's usually what I start off with when I introduced myself I was baptized into the church um when I was 18 and we had actually I moved from like one side of Washington state to the other so I'm not actually from Utah which usually surprises a lot of people they just assume that I'm like straight Utah native which I don't know if I'm supposed to be like offended by that a little bit I never know yeah um but we we had moved and I made friends and they introduced me to the church up in Washington and then um I moved my dad got a job in Utah when I was 16 so he moved here and so I was baptized here when I was 18 because I had to wait until my um my birthday my parents basically just decided that it was not they were not going to give me permission to get baptized and they just I think really they wanted to make sure it was my choice and I actually love them for that I always tell people I had like five years really to gain my own testimony and figure out that it's exactly what I wanted to do and I'm a super non-committal person and so it was actually great it like it really did prove to myself to too that like it's exactly what I needed for me so those 5 years really helped me and then yeah I was baptized and years later now I'm guess I'm talking about it on Instagram I don't know like life is so weird right like how things are but um and then yeah I I started a modest swimsuit company we launched in 2021 and um it's been great I don't really know like it's yeah that's that's where I am right now what else about me I have four kids um I was telling I was talking to you guys earlier I homeschooled them and and um while so while running my own business and then my husband actually runs his own business as well technically to two restaurants so so power couple yeah we're a little bit of a a crazy a I don't know about power but like yeah we're a little crazy yeah no that is so cool and you have just the cutest family like a new baby which is so exciting but I want to ask you too like how did you actually get into creating LDS content yeah um what actually happened I've heard a conference talk one time I remember listening to conference and telling my husband I really wanted to create more content online that was like um going to bring like Christians together and so I started actually talking about Christ in a very kind of again like a non-committal way in a sense where of where I was coming from not a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints but just like a general Christian and it it didn't really resonate like it started kind of and I was like okay like this is good I just wanted to put feelers out there for just to kind of bridge the gap I guess is what I was trying to do at first then I went to the temple one day and had a really strong impression that I was supposed to actually be talking about the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and specifically and I was like oh I just don't know it was I mean it was after 2020 it was after like a lot of there was a lot of division I feel like within the country within even like my own friend group right and it was just a little tough and I said okay I'm I'm going to move forward with I'm going to do that um and I started posting um LDS content and then I had one reel it's like my one reel that went viral um that was just about how I like edit I adjust my clothing to be more modest because I wear garments and it blew up in like kind of I mean good in a bad way there's a lot of negative comments a lot of great comments I'm sure you guys can both relate to that and um it helped a lot of people actually like find me and realized that there were women like my age kind of there like 20 like older 20s younger 30s that were like still solid members of the church and it actually helped bring like a lot of other friendships into my life and just a lot of really cool experiences and opportunities so that's really how I got into it it kind of was a random thing it just happened I guess oh my gosh okay that's incredible and I feel like I wonder if you relate to this Thoughts on modesty too but I feel like so many people when they start creating content they start with a more General Christian audience because you feel like it's going to be like less I don't know like did like excluding people did you experience that at all when you started well you just full send it well I honest you know me I just I just posted whatever and things took off it was similar to like you I had that one real that just took off for me I was just amazed at I think like what you're doing is great because it gives us the opportunity to honestly learn especially outside of our ignorance and for me I'm just interested in like as you as a woman putting yourself out there in terms of being proud of being modest especially for us growing up it was not that was not you know that wasn't the move that wasn't cool that wasn't really the thing to do so I'm interested in you raising your social media presence how was that feeling those conversations where it's like yeah I enjoy you know being modest but I'm not shaming you for not and it's like how did you like was that weird first starting off on social media yeah it's like a really tricky balance I mean so in talking about like my conversion story right I I will tell people day in and day out that the way that I really learned about the church that sounds weird but was I noticed that the girls especially and the boys too but that were members of the church were dressed differently than other people because in Washington it's not a majority right like where you go to high school and everybody's LDS it was a very small little Community within my high school and I I knew exactly who was and I knew who was wasn't based on the my first like instinct was their way that they were dressed and that really hit me as I got older and I grew up and then we moved to Utah and nobody was really following like whatever standards I thought you were supposed to hold my friend invited me to a St dance in Washington one time and it was very much like you wear you know your skirt to your knees your shorts to your knees whatever it is and I was like okay like that's the standard and then we got to Utah and I was like there is no standard or nobody's going to church and that was not in a judgmental way but it was just very much like that was my exp erience as a non-member at the time and so being able to talk about it now I I relate back to that a lot where like that's your uniform right like that's the standard that you're setting and it's not it's it's between you and Jesus ultimately right at the end of the day but it's important like modesty is important it's um going back to president Oak's talk from this last joural conference he talked about um like military personnel and doctors and firefighters they all have different uniforms at they wear on the outside and I just feel like that's like modesty for us and it's we're not the only ones in the world that are like we should be modest because we believe in Jesus there's so many other Christian denominations that believe that as well and it's it's really not weird like it should be a thing where you're like it's not I'm covering myself up it's just a I don't really know it's it's a it's like a it's a good it's a healthy thing to do it's a sophisticated thing to do I I seriously I love being modest I it's always just been something that I've liked it's a I don't know something it's hard I guess it's a challenge um Bachelor you won't really know about this but Mimi understands finding cute modest like women's clothing is really difficult really is it's so hard it's discouraging like you walk into the mall okay you can laugh don't walk don't walk and you like there's one thing I can wear in this entire store yeah and it's ugly it's ugly okay now this is like the reason why I I can't relate I for sure can't relate but the the funny thing is is like I'm just imagining it cuz I will say that growing you know growing up I'm obviously around guys and so the whole talks it's just like yeah you go to you go to Target and you see you see the The Cheeky swimsuits and then you see the suits that aren't supposed to be cheeky and you're like that's the show cheeky and then and then and then you get to the mon swimsuit and you like I wouldn't even want to see my mom in that cuz like it's that bad like I don't want my mom looking looking bum like like for sure it's it's just a tough Dynamic so I'm laughing because because like on one hand it's like nobody wants to look bad no but on the other hand you don't want to look bum yeah but then it to look good means that you have to like wear dang near nothing and to be modest means you got to look there got to be some happy middle ground something in the middle so shout out to Haley I know right and before and I want to talk Importance of having personal relationships with their covenants about honey Mark cuz I I'm obsessed with everything you guys have but I wanted to touch on something you said I thought was so interesting um you talked about living in Washington all the members as far as dress standards go were very strict like for strength of Youth which has changed now um but then when you moved to Utah people were a little more LAX with their modesty um I I can't remember if I've shared this on the podcast before but I was actually 13 12 or 13 when I moved to Utah from Michigan and I remember my Bishop telling me he's like okay like you probably think moving to Utah is going to be so much easier to be a member but it's actually not it's going to be way harder and I was like what do you mean like I struggled with peer pressure and like you know trying to fit in when I was in Michigan and he's like you just you can't let anybody else's testimony or their decisions dictate your own you need to have a personal relationship with the savior because we can't base what we do on other members and I feel like it's such a struggle in Utah when it's like oh Mom why can't I wear this crop top our neighbor is she's The Bishop's Daughter you know what I mean it's like it's so easy to compare and especially as a teenager like going to your parents about things like that so like what are your thoughts on that and I guess as a parent how like what advice would you have yeah I mean I think ultimately again it comes back to like your relationship with Jesus Christ and what that looks like and and I think we initially like as a church a lot of us started talking about modesty in like the cover yourself up cuz you don't want to affect the thoughts of others which that's not what it's supposed to be about right like you shouldn't be dressing a certain way because you don't want people to judge you you should be dressed in a certain way because of the relationship that you have with Jesus Christ and ultimately I will start to talk about my garments with my kids right now I talk about not just my garments just being you know underwear which I think with a huge like buzz thing on social media right now um but I talked to them about like we wear them because of the covenants that we've made and then I just will talk about covenants and so if you are kind of thinking with like the end in mind you're going to want to dress modestly because I I'm sure we know like a lot of girls who will be like Oh I'm getting married I'm going to get married in the temple I'm so stoked about that and that's wonderful but they have to change their entire wardrobe because they maybe didn't start with the end in mind when they were you know dating or whatever it might be right like they have to literally change the way that they're dressing and then that doesn't feel good right like to just you're like oh my gosh I I don't have the old shorts that I used to wear that I used to love or I don't have the tank tops or whatever it might be and so I think if you start with the end in mind and start with modesty from the beginning like try right it's not it's not going to be perfect I don't think anybody's perfect at it but if you can try and then understand like how important your covenants are with Jesus Christ and with heavenly father and being modest and dressing modestly is going to be so much easier easier throughout your entire life and with your kids and and all of that and it's boys and girls I think that's like one thing that's really important is to make sure you're talking about with your boys too I've seen a lot of guys in short turs lately so I'm like listen obviously I need to have the conversation with them too like I don't know the world has changed the world has changed I don't know I I I would argue that maybe it's back to how it was in the 80s cuz I just see a bunch of dudes just in straight short shorts in tank tops and it's all that but I do have a question um and me please chime in um so how do you balance because you mentioned you're not supposed to dress based off How to teach the rising generations someone else's perception yeah I love that yeah um I know for me I've had this conversation actually with my girlfriend and I'm going to be very like I'm going to be very transparent so you understand how it goes so she asked me how I felt about um because she was a someone with a fitness influencer and so a lot of the stuff that she wore compliment her body and that's how she worked out it was easy for her to work out yeah and so she asked me how I felt about it cuz you know maybe in past relationships they felt a little uncomfortable and so I told her like you're a grown woman you make your own decisions because I have been on the other side where I have been like oh no you can't wear that because of this this and this because of what this guy's going to think and I'm like and then I started thinking to myself I don't like that at all CU it's not my job to do that and so but I shared her my experience of I said if I were to go see your parents and um and I was sagging my pants and I wear my I have a grill and I said I wear my grill and you know I go want a hoodie and a bandana what would your parents think and she was just like oh you know they probably think like you're like a thug or something and I I said well is that fair is that fair to me but I do understand that there are certain rules in society that you have to play by to kind of like and and it's and is it is it fair not at all but how do you handle those conversations where on one end you do understand that there are some sick people in the world and there's especially there's some sick guys in the world and they try to justify oh this how Bor no you just have lack of self-control right but then on the other hand you're just like I should be able to wear whatever I want and but whatever I want you hope that it would you would choose to do something that aligns with whatever moral code that you live by so for you having to navigate those tough conversations especially with with young girls coming up in this generation how do you do it oh I think that's first of all such a good analogy like I love that so much because my husband and I have talked about this where um back in 20201 they talked a lot about skin color again kind of divisive we both talked about how clothing like what somebody was wearing like we were judging them way more by like their clothing than we were by their skin color right because if I saw a white guy same thing wearing like a grill of bandan and a hoodie and just kind of look you know like has a certain stance I would be like okay I'm a little more worried about you than if a man with dark skin came up to me in like a buttonup shirt you know what I mean like very very different and so I think it comes back to like dressing for the part that you want like dress for the job that you want not like maybe the job that you have that whole thing right like and I think um maybe giving really good examples to our kids I think sharing about these really successful women and maybe like maybe they're not wearing like the same thing as um what we would normally wear like I I look at like President Freeman love her so much know her personally Love Her Style and I'm like I would love to be able to be like here look at this like she's a a great example of spiritual strength and also like dresses really modestly and it's looking really nice I wonder if we can give more examples like that um but also coming back to your girlfriend I had this thought that if that's her job then like that's a totally different thing right like I know girls who I used to live in LA I don't know if we really talked about this before but I um I grew up as a dancer and so a lot of the time I was wearing like a leotard a tank top short shorts whatever it might be I moved to Los Angeles and um it was after I was baptized and so even there I was like trying to be more modest trying to like always go to church trying really hard not to give into peer pressure and um wear certain things right but when I was dancing I was wearing the stuff that I would wear when I was dancing right like and that was my like job at the time my job right now is like to wear my swimsuit in videos and I'm sure there's people that are like what you said you were supposed to be modest why are you wearing your swimsuit and I'm like that's my job like kind of modeling what I'm doing and so yes like there is kind of that fine line where like you you don't want to over overdo it you don't want to say well this is my job and I'm just going to do whatever I want and kind of flaunt right like modesty isn't only about the way you dress though I think I made a whole real about this like a year and a half ago but like modesty is also about like your humility and having meekness and understanding that like you're not dressing to like fla right you're dressing for whatever job it is that you are doing or that you want to have right and so maybe that comes back to like on Sunday right I think there's some women ooh that we can talk about like the pants when women were like I want to wear pants to church I'm like that's great if you feel like the job you want requires you to wear pants to church that you know and by job I mean even like essentially you're talking about like your relationship with heavenly father in Jesus Christ your spiritual relationship that's your job when you go to church right is like figuring out that and so if wearing pants does that for you that's awesome like go ahead I want to wear a dress am I going to wear a ball gown probably not and so I think yeah maybe just talking about that a little bit more I think and just being open open about it I have a lot of friends that are like we just didn't talk about things and that's why we're doing this why that's why these conversations are happening now because I think this new generation that's like up and coming they need to talk about it a little bit more so need it and you look at the new for strength of Youth pamphlet and just like how like I was reviewing it for this episode cuz we'll talk about like modest swimsuits and what's modest and what's not and spoiler alert there's not one thing in the first strength of Youth pamphlet that says wear this and not this which there used to be to used to be but you guys even I listened to a talk from like 1970 and it was I mean it was very specific about like what to wear What Not to Wear and like I mean I kind almost to the point where it was a little like rude nowadays right back then I think they were just like this is how it is and now looking at it from our you know our lens it would we would all just be beside ourselves I feel like the way that it was talked about so there's a way to talk about it I think Personal revelation and the new For the Strength of Youth and we'll probably get into that too but I I just love like just thinking about the personal revelation aspect of it because I feel like anytime you put on clothes any girl at least I can't speak for men but like you can put on an outfit and be like okay this is my intention with this like I before I was endowed like I definitely modesty was hard for me cuz like I love fashion and I did pageants and so it's also like this is a competition like a sport so I need to dress it's like athletes in their uniforms and but it's also like a personal representation of your style and your standards and like it's a whole other thing but I feel like anytime you like put on an outfit you know you're like okay this is my intention with what I'm wearing this is how I want people to see me and I think it's just like you need to go into it and like every situation is different like you talk about your job where you're wearing swimsuits or your girlfriend's job doing fit and I feel like you just need to take it with a case by case basis and really like tune out other people because if you're really in tune with the spirit and like this is my intention with what I'm wearing yeah like people get mad that the BYU cougarettes are like not they're like are they wearing their garments with that I'm like they're dancing they're they're cheering like Lally it's their job it's literally their job so I think it just really needs to be like a one-on-one thing with God because that's why I choose to dress modestly it's for him and for my relationship with him and I want my looks and my you know everything to be the least interesting thing about me I want to be able to be receptical and like his tool and so anyway we can go way more into this I I had one more thing that I thought of when I when I lived in La my friends and I would get dressed and then we would come out and be like well what about this like is this too short is this sleeve to you know whatever or how does this like is this neckline too plunging and I would if somebody would tell i' always say if you have to ask it probably isn't the right thing to wear because you're looking for that validation of like no it's fine like you're good you're fine right if you don't have to ask then you know and like you said like usually you do know like when you put it on you usually know like it's good or it's not right and so you kind of but it might be hard without like the first strength of Youth pamphlet now because again it was a lot more like shorts to the knees and that's what it is and now it's probably like here you go like it's between you and God and you're living higher and Holier and like what does that mean to you you and so now it's a little more like open to interpretation totally so I don't is that a good thing or a bad thing I don't really know yeah know I feel like it makes it a lot more difficult what do you think but even with that I think like the biggest thing I've taken away just listening to you guys is how much modesty stems from your internal values because I think you can line up 10 different women who have great testimonies about modesty and they're all going to dress different totally and I absolutely love the fact that you guys can highlight that cuz I can't speak to the exper and I think we all know that women get hit harder with these perceptions of modesty than men do you can go to the gym and see a man working out shirtless people are going to be like oh like he's working on he's working out and I'm and it's it isn't it isn't fair so as I navigate this conversation like listen to you okay well that makes sense how people feel internally they know for themselves and obviously having to handle perceptions of the world is tough and I know you probably navigated that pretty well but internally I love that I love how you pointed that out yeah I love that yeah okay let's dive into modest swimsuits I'm sorry I to realize I'm like bachelor's here and we're talking about women it's good from a male perspective totally yeah I love this I've never been able to speak on mod it's never a thing Is modest actually more attractive? I've ever wanted to speak on cuz it just makes me just cuz I know the rules don't apply the same but I also know that's how it goes for like racial topics I know there's a bunch of white people that have great great Nuance of conversation that can apply something but I think they're probably a little nervous about I don't know if I can say anything so for me I don't mind I'm sitting here just learning I'm like oh it's going to make me a better future husband I'm just taking notes in my head so I'm just eating it all up hey wait let me ask you this because I feel like this was a question I had a lot as like a youth especially I always wondered like as an LDS Youth as a girl do young men actually like find modesty more attractive than like an immodest outfit that's question what do you think and I'm sure it differs yeah like in it's situation I don't know like does depend we WEAU him okay here's the thing Temple batch and pre-t Temple batch yeah yeah you know may had different no I'm kidding no I I think um it on I don't want to speak for all elas men but there were guys who preferred women you know neck to toes covered up but at the same time they was was some of the guys you know feing for you know these girls that they see in magazines I know for me personally um I had to my my mom was some so like my mom I we would go to the pool and she' be in like basketball shirts at a t-shirt a t-shirt and basketball shorts like but interally what we find more attractive I think you would find that um I think dressing now is an expression of who you are on the inside and what are you cool with the world being being um you're cool with the per the world gives you and um with that I will say as a as a man now I think modesty is is extremely attractive not not just because oh like you're covered up it's not that it's the fact that you're doing what what you choose to do in my head it's like you know what you get the you you're taking control of the narrative they push out because you know having a sister and seeing her having to deal with these perceptions of no you're empowered if you wear less I'm just like dang like how do you feel about that and her trying to be in spaces where you know they wouldn't they wouldn't maybe accept her if she was if she was more modest and now her being a mother and her raising a daughter now I'm just thinking to myself like that is a tough thing to navigate so women now in 2024 choosing to be modest that's extremely powerful because you you're you know you're you're damned if you do damned if you don't and I sit there and I think to myself you know that that is a person that can raise a a son that might be struggling with his internal problems and so I think modesty and in terms of what I know the end goal is like that is I think that that I'm not trying I'm trying to make sure I'm pretty correct but I think I think without a doubt modesty and woman being a to be modest now is is a Heavenly power I think they're they're ordained with some kind of power that I don't even think men if they were women could pull off so love hearing that my job for that one going come from no no no I think it's and it's like maybe there are some men who would prefer the least modest and I think maybe your I feel like your values have to align if you want a healthy relationship anyway and so I feel like it's different for everyone I will say yeah just to make sure we understand the podcast My Friends Ask me like well what if I what if I I want to be with a what if I want to be with this girl and she doesn't you know wear what I like maybe go choose to be with somebody else cuz she don't got to wear what she like so it's as simple as that so like people like if if you if if you want to be with a girl who just as modest want to be the girl who doesn't dress modest just gool find the person like you said just find the person that aligns with your values keep it simple you don't need the whole world to approve if you just want that one person literally so true so just like be Be confident in your modesty confident like I wish if I could say anything to myself when I was younger I was so insecure about dressing modestly and especially when it's compared to my other LDS friends who I feel like were not dressing up to the standards that I wanted to hold myself to like just be confident in the decisions that you're making be confident in the choice and the why of why you're dressing mod I just wish everyone knew that yeah I think it becomes a lot easier to dress modestly when you know like your Divine word you know who you are as like a daughter of God right like it really does it that totally changed it for me when you become confident in yourself not in how you look but who you are like you were saying like your inside that changes everything it totally changes how you want to look and that's what is attractive it's the confidence attractive and that's that's backed by scripture DNC it says like you have access to through the principles of and access to that priesthood power and I always tell me like how are you they asked me about my confidence I was like back then I can understand that was fake confidence totally but once I got endowed and I was just like oh my gosh the only thing that determines my worth is how I treat myself and other people oh my goodness it made it so much easier so everything like how you express yourself in dress I feel like becomes so much easier for a man but I say for a man I'm everything I say for a man wait it's the same it's the same for us I think yeah Shopping for swimsuits male perspective let me ask you this as a man okay well I feel like so shopping for my husband uh swimsuits we're switching to swimsuits now I feel like there's so many that are so short now have you ever like has the modesty kind of like conversation ever gone through your mind when you're looking for swimsuits or you ever like this is like shorter than I'm comfortable with or I feel like as a guy is it just like okay it's swim trunks I think God just say it's just swim trunks I have some friends who are from um different countries and the normal swimwear is Speedos yeah oh yeah yeah never will you catch me in like no never you're not comfortable yeah I I don't have the physique like that I'm going say like that but for me I've never had an issue cuz I'm you know they some you know some of these dudes have uh you know they they spend a lot of time in the gym and they have these true trunk legs and so they want to want to show those off and I think to myself I don't know how much different that is from you know a girl that just hit a 6 to8 we glute program and wants to wear a certain swims and I might have like oh my gosh the Paradigm is completely flipped but we don't talk like people don't talk about it ever how okay I don't know if yall can answer but how do y'all feel about that like does that not get y'all no it's infuriating yeah it's when you see the double standard it gets a little bit you're like okay what's happening but again I think it really does come back to like what you're comfortable with because I know a lot of women who are like I feel like I have to wear a certain swimsuit like a bikini even though they're not comfortable in it I know a lot of women who don't even feel comfortable in one piece probably your mom because she was like I feel comfortable in basketball shorts and a t-shirt and so that's what I'm going to wear and there are a lot of guys who are like I want to show off my legs so I'm going to wear the short shorts and no shirt but then I know a lot of dads that are like I'm going to wear full clothes to the pool and I am not going to take them off you know like so it comes back I guess to what you're comfortable with and what inside you feel like as well and what do you guys think that stems from inside cuz I would say when I first got endowed like a week or two later I Dressing with the Holy Garment went to Mexico and I went to the beach with my garments on in a long sleeve shirt some long shorts I posted a the crazy part is I posted a picture in I was getting unlimited Char they bringing them in I was just in the full they're like bash bro like it's human outside why are you wearing a long sleeve and I said bro I just don't I just don't know if I could they're like no you're allowed to to go swim without your gments on I'm just like listen let me just sit in relish relishing this new power that I feel like I have oh I love that though but I asked you like but then start I started to get lenient and then I start going out and I'm thinking to myself this jacket would look good with a tank top but I can't wear it because you know garments or I'm thinking to myself H I don't know if I I want to be able to wear this this Kobe Bryant Jersey and I can't wear it because of my garment so now I start to think like like how can I and I'm like oh my gosh this is just for a couple items women got to go through a whole change it's everything I'm glad that you like acknowledging cuz I start looking at different things and I'm just like oh man like this is I'm over here complaining I start feeling bad I'm like you know what yeah I can't say nothing just put the garments on get out the way cuz I know my girl my girlfriend when she got owed yeah we had to we're going shop I'm taking a shoping I'm trying my first time having an actual real job I'm like you know go to the SP me you going to get anything you want we going to each store yeah she can't bu can't go here can't go here can't go here and I'm like well you know do you have you know I'm like all right what am I talking so I said that's her that's her business but how do you guys get to the point where you decide like internally how do you navigate that like like when you talk about you know when does it get to the point where it just becomes habitual or is it something that you're going to have to just go through the rest of your life and I think everybody has to go through it at some point I think some people go through it when they're little like honestly they're like I just want to be modest all the time for whatever reason it is I think it's like part of like a part of conversion almost right if that makes sense but I think at different times in your life it's different like I definitely want to dress more modestly now because of my kids like I want to have be that example for them and like allow them to have that but I don't know about everybody right like I don't know what that looks like for others I don't I feel like it's like anytime you have to go shopping for something new really it's like it's a lifelong thing and anytime you're in a different phase of life like now that I'm pregnant again I'm like going to be pregnant through this whole summer I'm literally going to die of heat like what am I supposed to why am I supposed to wear another layer another layer no totally and so I feel like I think for me when I was adjusting to garments like just like your girlfriend it was very difficult and I did try to you know up my modesty in the Years leading up to getting endowed um but even with modest clothes there are some art articles of clothing that just don't work with garments either it's to seethrough the you can see it like you even if you wore all modest clothes you might have to go through and get a whole wardrobe refresh like that's my biggest tip for anyone who messages me that's like I'm getting a d soon like what advice you have for garments I'm like just save up a little money so you can go thrifting or like just treat yourself to some new pieces that you don't have to worry about like adjusting to work with your garments but it is a hard transition and I think that just goes to show that like garments are an everyday sacrifice but how I've been trying to look at it is cuz sometimes you do get frustrated you're shopping you're like oh I just wish it was a little bit shorter or whatever and what I've been trying to do is anytime I'm in a position where I'm like okay I got to change because I can see my garments through this is instead of just looking at that and like being oh like garments suck I wish I didn't have to deal with this is being like okay why do I wear garments and like having a little moment of intro introspection I think that's the word but like really like okay this is why I'm doing this and like a recommitment to it instead of just feeling frustrated by my garments I'm like this is symbolizing Jesus Christ and what an honor it is for to be to be wearing this right now right right yeah I think about the pioneers and what like they I mean and honestly even like modern day Pioneers that are striving so hard to get to the temple to like receive their endowment to receive that power that you were talking about right and so it does kind of feel like a thing like to think like I just have to dress modestly today but it sucks so I don't want to you know what I mean just to give up that power like you think about what you're giving up for to like to live certain way like it's wild too even with those conversations cuz people talk about the magic underwear or whatever but they don't realize throughout scripture we've seen God asking for something super small for a payoff super big yes even like Moses and the Moses and the staff all you have to do is just look at the staff and you're healed and it is interesting I think perception rules all but for you I have a specific question about honey Mar yeah I'm All about Honey Mark curious you're being a woman as a business owner you have found purpose in a business and have been able to you know in a way be able to take care of your family teach your family through that how has that been like how was it being like being able to be a business owner a mother and then combining both of those purpose into your job is that got to be some kind of dream yeah it's um wow I think a lot of the time Heavenly Father Works through people like to fulfill a calling to fulfill whatever it might be like a purpose um with problems so I know I was we were talking about this I had four kids my first three were um 2 and a half years apart so my oldest was 2 and a half when my youngest was born and we were like really struggling financially um a lot of the time I just tell people like it was just hard and they're like well what was hard and I'm like literally everything it wasn't like we just didn't have money but like we were fine other ways it was like our our family relationships were kind of strained and we were living off of uh my husband was had a food truck at the time and so like that I will tell you right now don't open a food truck it is not lucrative it is not something you want to jump into like obious now it's great like obviously we're we're good now but like it was not and and we had three kids and just like no help and anybody that did want to help helped me also had their own kids so I was like you're a drowning person trying to help another drowning person like we cannot help each other if we're all drowning like it was just we were in survival mode all the time and on top of that I feel like like when you're when you're pregnant and when you're going through like motherhood and you have no sleep you're not really taking care of your body because you're taking care of somebody else I mean three other people um your spirituality does kind of like it doesn't shrink it it shrinks a little bit like Jesus just has to meet you where you are like while you're washing dishes instead of in the temp you just don't have that opportunity to go as much and to do as many things um and so it was it was like a rough time and I um I this is like one of my my best part of my stories honestly is my husband came home one day and with like a a black Sketchbook and I I don't sketch I always told myself I'm not creative I'm not artsy granted I'm like was a dancer so like obviously I was creative I actually grew up my mom knew how to sew and would sew some of our dance costumes and she taught me how to sew and I would like re like you call it refashioning where you get a piece of clothing and then you like sew it and you adjust it and whatever um and I used to do that like in high school and out of high school and um my husband came home with that book and he was like you need to start sketching you know swimsuits and I was like no like I don't really know how to do that wait he just like he was like I I had talked about it before right like it was things that I was like I it needs to be something different I actually used to work for like a popular um like women's apparel company not designing stuff ice work at lul lemon and just as a like an educator and so but I was aware of like what kind of support women could have I heard all of their complaints every swimsuit season it was like complaint after complaint right and like there was no support and this doesn't cover it's very bum I actually love I like love that term it's but I obviously you don't want to be bum you know um but like it I always was like okay what why isn't anything changing because it was year after year summer after summer it like nothing ever changed and um so I would talk to my husband and he was just like you just need to start designing and it didn't happen right then like my designs that I have currently are not the same as what I was sketching like things have definitely evolved but having my kids in that short amount of time like we would just go to the splash pad and I would just look around at every other mom there and just they all just looked so like sad kind of just disappointed and nobody was really involved with their kids cuz they were wearing like full clothes and I was like why like why isn't there something I would go in like a sports bra a tank top and running shorts I'm like why isn't this just a swimsuit and so that's literally what I ended up designing was because of like the problems that I have and actually my friends went to BYU Women's Conference this last weekend and they heard um from Sarah son and she talked to she Sarah had this quote that said um let your test become your testimony and your mess become your message and I was like oh my gosh that that is me isn't that so good she's so good I love her um but like that that to me I like that is exactly what happened to me it was literally like I was in the pit of like whatever mess I was in and like it became my message where I was like I I know I'm not the only one I'm know I know I'm Not the Only Mom that like needs this that wants this that deserves this because we want to be like hanging out with our kids we want to be modest not even because like I just want to be modest I literally want to be able to bend over pick something up without my cheeks hanging out you know like or something flashing somebody like literally don't want to have to wear basketball shorts and a t-shirt like I I should be able to like find that middle ground and actually so honey Mark is a is a term for sweet spot so it's an idiom cuz honey for sweet and Mar for spot so we were trying to find The Sweet Spot of like being fashionable being comfortable helping you to feel confident while also being like flattering and and like coverage right and so that's that's why we named honeywork what we did what I did and yeah I mean basically to answer your question it's like it's been so amazing to be able to show my kids first of all that like if you have something not like a dream but like if you have a calling that you feel like called to like God will like make a way like he will literally like part the Red Sea and make it happen for you if it's supposed to happen um so it's been so great to see like spiritually like they've been able to see that but also like they've been able to see my work ethic um they've been able to see that like I obviously make sacrifices like I don't wear bikinis that go up my but when we go to the beach I make those sacrifices I don't really want to wear that but I for some people I know that's a sacrifice some people have a great body and they're like that's what I want to wear and they choose to wear something different anyway and I'm like that's great like that's a great sacrifice to make for you know being modest and for your inside so that you can show how your inside feels on the outside did that answer your question at all that's dope learning a life story yeah how your purpose align with with your morals and yeah honestly I think it's tough to especially in our were with alas creators you know we're not we're minority of the world and so even being able to have a thriving podcast you know like it's tough because the audience you don't feel like it could reach many but then you realize the principles that we do live by is global there's some there's something for everybody so I love Yeah we actually didn't like I purposely didn't call it like modest swimwear because modesty has kind of a derogatory yes isn't that so strange like the definition it's not but people think of it in like a bad way it has a bad connotation and so I wanted to make sure that we just put it out there we actually call it swim Leisure so instead of a Leisure it's swim Leisure cuz you can wear it like if you put it on when you're on your way to the pool and you have to run inside the gas station for snacks you don't feel like you have to cover yourself up right away right now on the flip side it does play a little bit of a like an iffy controversial part because I know my days I'm like I'll wake up and I'll just put on my swimsuit and then I'll go to Walmart and then we'll go to the beach and then we'll come back home or whatever and I'm like oh did I put on my garments throughout the day like I could have I could have changed my clothes so I loved um in the new like updated uh like little message that they have about the Garment in the temple recommend questions they they talked about um it says seek to restore the Garment as like quickly as possible and I love those words because it's it's again it's more about you it's more about like what you're doing and it has that phrase has like run through my head quite a bit lately not that I'm just like not wearing my garments but it does help me to remember like just seek to restore it as soon as possible I think sometimes What are the "rules" for LDS swimwear? even like I get out of the shower and I'm like I'm going to do my hair and I'm and I like oh I should just wear my garments first right like that should just be the first thing that I do so sorry not to flip it and talk about gar but no I love that and we're going to dive into that CU I love the new statement that's there um but I and I I think it's so cool hearing you talk about um like why you actually decided not to Market it as m modest we had another guest who who came on and she has a clothing line and hers she same thing she's like I want it to be High coverage instead of modest just because of the connotations um but a question I get a lot and I'm sure you get a lot too um just from other Latter-Day Saints on Instagram is like what are the rules for LDS swimsuits so I want to ask you is there any rules like what's modest what's not and I think again it really does just depend as much as hard as that is like you don't want to sit here and be like there's a lot of gray area but like there's a lot of gray area I don't know if my grandma would be like well that what you're wearing isn't modest like I don't know if she would say that I mean I think um I always in my head it was like one pieces but I also didn't grow up in the church that was just what I thought was modesty right but then I had friends that would wear tankinis and I had friends that would get in trouble for wearing bikinis and I think to me modest is like trying to make sure your private parts are covered and go from there cuz there's also a lot of s suits that don't even cover that there's one pieces that are less modest than two pie yeah absolutely is so which is why I think there actually aren't any rules like written down in the LDS like in the handbook in the first strength of Youth there's nothing that says what's a modest Susu and what's not and I think that can be difficult but I think it really it just puts it on the members to make that decision for themselves and I always come back to intention if I'm like okay really like this swimsuit like is it cuz it's cute or is it oh cuz I think I'm going to look really cute in it like what is my intention cuz for me a swimsuit the purpose is to get wet and go swimming you know what I mean or get a tan if that's what I'm doing that day it shouldn't be about like okay what how do people see me in this exactly so I guess that's kind of how I see it but like how do you cuz and another thing too is like body types it's so different like I have friends who like have a really long torso and like a swimsuit that's a one piece is actually going to be less modest on them because of the way it comes down lower comes up higher and the bottom so like for some people a bikini is going to be more modest um then there's tankinis but then some tankinis like show your stomach but like it really isn't like there's not rules like that I don't know like what are what are your thoughts on maybe if you're talking to like a young adult or a teenage girl who's a latterday Sayan is like I just want to wear like a modest swimsuit like what does that look like yeah what's interesting I think we talk about adults like having a really hard time finding swim teenagers have a really hard time like I used to be in the Young Women's Presidency and I would hear a lot of the time that those girls like I just can't find anything to wear um and so they're getting targeted as well I feel like as you know women are um first of all I would tell them to shop at Honey Mark instead of anywhere else um no but really like find something like you really have to dig and I think that's true with any clothing right find something that you're going to feel as comfortable in as you will find something that's going to cover you right like find something that you can run around in be like you aren't a mannequin you know what I mean you're like a living breathing human being you're going to be doing things you're not just going to be standing there all the time sometimes you'll be laying out and like maybe that's when you need a bikini like go ahead if if you feel like that's what you want is to like burn your skin and like get super tan and you need your bikini to do that that's fine I'm like what if you're in your backyard like go ahead whatever but again it's more about like how comfortable you are in whatever it is that you're going to do right like if you're on a house Boo and you're going to go wakeboarding later or whatever you might want something that like is has a little more coverage maybe get some little like uh like shorts like running shorts right even that like there's things that you can do to make things more comfortable I think yeah instead of just kind of going with whatever Trends are happening in the world totally no I'm with you it's so hard for young women now a day like I feel for them so much and I feel like um I know it's just interesting to see cuz like obviously when we were growing up I think it did say like one pieces are recommended or like or and then people were like well tinini is basically the same because it's just a one piece in two different parts but definitely all it's way more personal now so just think about the intention and probably an intention take a shot of Diet Coke every time I say intention as we're talking about this but like it's about the intention of why you're wearing what you're wearing so I love that love that and just be comfortable um okay we want to talk about like garments and stuff with you too while you're here but I thought we could take a break and do something a little fun are you down sure okay it's nothing it's nothing crazy okay great Quiz. Which biblical woman are you? we're going to do a little quiz did you see what it was I saw it I saw it on the way here I said wait I'm down I'm down to see who my my my comp is and if you were if you were not happy about it I'm going to say if the roles were okay I'm going to say it's it's which biblical woman are you and I'm like okay if we were women doing which profit are you that's it's not not normal so I'm like you can be a Biblical woman no I think I could I just didn't know how y'all felt about me being involved in it that's why I was like you might do you want me to just ask or can I can I inv need to do it for sure I'm for sure going to do it I was looking at it and I was but I was first trying to see who like who do I think I am I know okay so which biblical woman are you like what who are we wanting who do we want to be eser I'm Queen Esther 100% I love Esther I could see you as Esther honestly I feel like sometimes I'm sah just based on like what my life experience has been and literally like following my husband into like literal Wilderness with so many kids like I don't know what's happening and then it all works out oh my gosh I like that too can we talk about like the sacrifice that women make like if their husband is the main bread bread winner like just following their jobs wherever they end up like it's it's a lot yeah okay hold on let me pull this up and I'm going to send it to you so this these quizzes are all found on thir .org you can follow along with us we'll have it in the description so I'll read the question it's it's fast Sunday and the spirit prompts you to share your testimony what would you most likely say I know that this trial has made me grow and I'm grateful for the lessons it provided okay this opportunity to serve others help me develop charity for God's children cool I know Jesus Christ is our savior and then God created the perfect plan so we can live with our families forever I I feel like those are all those are yeah I mean I would I would want to I would I feel like I would maybe say all three I actually probably would say the third one more than any of the other ones just because don't know what time of life this is talking about I also feel like I personally don't get up and like I've had a really hard trial like I'm not one to do that like I'm not super vulnerable about that so I number three for me just I like your reing yeah no that makes sense about you I'm way too much of a open book so I'm number one I always be we going do something really [Laughter] hard like guys please bring me meel I'm needing it no I'm saying you know I I go up there after after I realize the tri made me better but in the midst of it when I was struggling but I might go home at the first hour but now I'm I'm play okay I'll go I'm going to go with the fourth one because I feel like I always end up as just like a sappy like I love my family so that that's me okay the missionary's called another member can't come with a lesson and now need someone to accompany in an hour do promise to meet them in 10 see if they could might be able to reschedule you want to help but can't right now apologize that you can't but let them know who might be able to help that's still nice um or politely decline you've got a talk to WR a child to pick up family coming to town and just a little too much going on right now I'm probably number four see it depends I feel like this could be I know it just depends yeah there's no option where it's like okay you know what they do cover all the bases okay let's pretend this is tomorrow so it's like a realistic but it says promise to meet them in 10 the whole point is like if it's like a weekday so let's say this is on Monday this comes Monday okay okay okay come to a lesson and they need you in hour like so they take they just hit you up at 2:00 p.m. and 3 p.m. is your entire time and why do you need to meet them in 10 if they don't need you for an hour are you going to press you're extra prepared you are you are extra prepared yeah okay as much as I want to say one I'll I'll do two and the only reason I'll do two is because not the only reason why but I get the opportunity to do two because of I live a flexible life I don't have kids and no that to attend to but for you guys I'm not going to judge you guys if you say I am straightforward like no matter what day we are probably somewhere else like we are probably not home you have a lot going on yeah I'll do three I just have one kid but I'm also pregnant and I'm like I'm napping right now but here you can call someone else I feel like that's reasonable okay a difficult trial comes up in your life you're unsure if you're strong enough to overcome this difficult difficulty what do you do look for the good in the situation God must have a reason for allowing this to happen if either you pick that then good for you uh face it with quiet dignity you know God won't ask you to do something impossible serve others your own trials seem lighter when you can help others wow that's a really that's not me pray for any trial you know you can overcome it with God's help yeah whoever picks three they got to be that they got to be that's hay oh I mean with kids you like already are serving others all the time right moms moms are the only moms can qualify that for that one moms can qualify no doubt I'm for sure one just because I'm delusional so um it's not even because I have a great testimony I was on the way to uh I was on the way to to do this Youth Event and um I got in a car accident and then what shut up oh yeah and I got I got in a bad car car accident and like my shoulder my shoulder separated and um I was just sitting there just like oh yeah this is about to be the best weekend because that was Satan I think oh my are number one was driving that car it wasn't it wasn't my fault or other person's fault that was save it oh my God I look back I said no I for sure could have would have different around to get there we said we were going to leave at 12 we left at 6 that was not saying but no that's why I am very delusional but I am like a Dallas Cowboy fan I don't know if you're like you watch love sports but we believe every year we're going to win so I'm fully convinced that living in the dulu we all need a little dulu though okay oh I love that what are you doing I honestly I feel like I'm number three because mostly because I feel like I need to distract myself and I have personally seen that when I serve others I do feel better so it's like a selfish service like I'm definitely not like it's of my heart that is the goodness that your goodness to like even think to do that honestly okay I'll do pray I'll at least pray I'll cry every day I'll complain but I will at least pray that's good there was not a fifth option which is unfairly take it out on the people closest to you roll up in a ball in your bed and Cy all day so okay the bishop challenges the W to find someone to serve this week who do you serve oh anyone I'm truly serving the lord when I serve others someone I don't really know too well service is the best way to learn to love someone my family the best work is always done the home or whoever needs my time and love the most whom the spirit will guide me to I feel like these are all good answers they're great I want to say three or four I was just thinking today about how I end up like if I go out with my kids sometimes they end up in like the weirdest like coincidental places where like somebody's there and I'm like wow how are we just here at the same time like that's so crazy but I know like I know it's not a coincidence I know it's God like I know it's a tender Mercy but it's not me like reaching out to serve sometimes it's just me like showing up totally so I don't really know about that that's so Co it's so cool how the spirit yeah absolutely works like that though I'm going to see my family hey I'll do four I feel like I would love to be four that's like my dream to be four you'll get there I still don't know how I feel the spirit I just like go and so in my head it's just I'm just one like anyone anyone just Ser that that's not of that the thing is though like anyone could be your roommate when it doesn't take that much effort but anyone also could be something dramatic but you're just you're uh you're playing I don't want to say Russian that cuz you're just playing some sort of roulette but yeah I want to be for so I can be like oh the spirit led me to this situation I feel like that is an actual superpower but yeah for me I do not in the 26 years of my life I still can't tell when I'm feeling the spirit so I just won no I feel like that's so interesting to hear that from you because I feel like I mean I don't know you super well but like whenever I talk to you like your insights like you're so insightful and I'm like he just seems so in tune with the spirit we'll have to talk about like do a whole episode about feeling the spirit or like my therapy says I'm add so I don't know if I can even focus ad is like a superpower cuz you can hyperfocus on certain things right but have you ever heard of the the Goldfish analogy I think Brad will Cox talks about this where he's like when you're a goldfish and you're living in water all the time you don't realize what it feels like until you're out of the water and so you probably just feel the spirit all the time wa I appreciate next question okay oh my gosh this is long okay how often do you speak up in Sunday school oh gosh I usually apologize for talking a lot at least once a lesson that's laugh hard I I thought you were I thought you were about to you for sure won huh oh my gosh I I literally never talk in school way I almost feel like it's because I get it all out online like I hardly Bear My Testimony at church cuz I'm like I just feel like I already do it and part of me is probably like I'm just going to give other people an opportunity but I'm like too scared okay off um I always make sure to study the lesson beforehand good for you um only when the spirit prompts me to share or hardly ever I prefer to keep my thoughts to myself I'm three I used to be one and I have since tried to pull myself back and I feel like I'm number three now where I'm like when the spirit's like yeah yeah this thought keeps coming to my head then I share it cuz I'm I actually am the same way where I'm like I want other people to share and I used to teach gospel Doctrine and some people would share and i' be like okay like I don't know if that was like NE NE but like thank you for sharing and other people I'm like such a good comment like the spirit really really like drove that so I'm like I think it's good sometimes to just kind of sit back and wait and let the spirit and sometimes it'll prompt you more than once like I need you don't do you not up I speak up but I'm not apologetic about it so I'm then you're number one we'll keep it simple okay next one okay you have an entire day to do anything that you want what do you want to do finally read a book that's been on your shelf for months why are you laughing okay okay B's not going to pick one be with family they're the light of your life after all try to learn something new like sign language or painting in one day yeah what yeah go for it look for small ways to serve others simple things can often make a huge difference oh I was hoping like the temple I feel like these got to be like principal so I feel like the first one is like studying like like relaxing like I guess for you is like I guess what find I guess getting to something that you've been putting off sure you know and then the second one running my errands back to Target second yeah yeah make myself lunch for the week be with family I'm assuming be with those who you love um try to learn something I guess that's not even Hobbies because you're trying to learn something new yeah um and then four service service um if we're I'm not gonna pick the fourth one if we're being so for real I mean I don't know because it's tough cuz entire I'm not going to spend an entire day doing one thing right right that's yeah so you could serve but if if you want me to serve the entire day you're out of luck that's crazy like what tired I do anything I want to do like anything ever yeah wow I can serve like serving from like 99 to 11: to start the day I feel like is effective yeah solid two hours yeah I I for sure do too yeah too okay how long okay this is the last question a love one tells you that they're struggling with their testimony and don't know what to believe do you promise to love them no matter what they're God's child after all quietly pray for guidance on how to help them the Lord knows how to best help them answer any questions that you can and promise to help them find more answ ERS and bear simple testimony about what um what you do know to invite the spirit to trust I feel like we should do all of these yeah yeah number two to me is like the most important though you always want to pray to have like the spirit with you to know what they need yeah because you could totally mess up cuz people spread love in a way that they want to receive love and that's actually pretty selfish without knowing and i' I say people be I've had a habit of doing that so I've learned listening listening doing more listening is is for sure better absolutely yes answer any questions yeah I feel I want to put one cuz I feel like I'm like that is first and foremost right yeah my cousin Told Me Maybe maybe they don't want that though right maybe they don't want to know like okay it's great that you love me but like I'm telling you I'm having a really hard time right with what I'm going through and it's yeah it's great it's great that you love me but like what else do they need to hear yeah yeah but it's not obviously it's not bad to say that no no it's it's so interesting though like just the different ways which is why you need be tun with the spirit yeah I think I would do four cool because I had an experience with my cousin and I just kind of told her like I'm not the tough love guy I'm like yeah that's life I think it's arrogant to think that your testimony is just going to be on a high the whole time but it's also condescending to yourself you think your testimon is going to be low I just that's like enjoy the you got to be able to enjoy the the struggling moments cuz this is the only time in life we get to we get to struggle afterwards where it's it's Disneyland in Bliss not that Disneyland is a Celestial Kingdom like went to Disneyland had a great experience it's always fun I just got to make sure I don't get always that no lions that is AAL king united for unlimited churos yeah you see with the Instagram caption that's what I still from you but no I I um yeah so I think I'm to Bear my testimony and fight the spirit that's a nice way of putting it what I would say cool it's cool we all put different things okay wait did you guys get your result it was I thought at all who did you get I got Eve oh so did I period are we all Eve no I got Ruth you got Ruth I got Ruth that's a good one do you want to read it what it says for Eve sure yeah while many criticize Eve for the fall her transgression show shows tremendous faith and understanding on her part she understood the necessity of knowing good and evil to progress and how it all leads to the Joy of redemption you are someone who can face any trial with the same dignity and Grace Eve had you have enough understanding of God's plan to move forward with faith even when you don't know everything while you're maybe a little misunderstood no one can deny the love you have for others and the tremendous faith in your heart and then Eve story where it can be found I like that love that gosh that is so look at you guys being eeve okay I got Ruth so it says she left her Homeland to stay with her mother-in-law whom she loved dearly Ruth followed Naomi because she knew it was the right thing to do and cared for her all her life your family is the most important thing to you and nothing can shake the love you feel for them you attune your life to the spirit so you know the way he wants for you sometimes the spirit asks us difficult things but you understand that he will always lead you down you and your family down the best paths you feel confident in whatever Direction the Lord guides you because you know he will never fail you this this is very nice this is very aspirational for me no you have great and you're a family woman my potential oh that's who you are you guys are too in the early stages this was fun though this was I love that now we know I know you guys have been wondering like which biblical woman am I now we know okay um oh my gosh we only have a couple minutes left this is like flown by and I feel like we've already kind of talked about garments a little bit um but but the church updated their statement about the temple garment that's read in the temple recommend interview questions um so on here um if you want to look I can kind of look at his so I have the old version and the new version and I kind of New statement on wearing LDS Garments highlighted some of the um noteworthy changes but I feel like one of the big ones that I've seen talked a lot about online um is in the old version it just says the temple garment when worn properly throughout the life blah blah blah and then the new version says um you should wear the Garment day and night throughout your life and I feel like that was a big conversation for a long time on social media some members saying okay wearing it throughout my life that could be once a week that could be when I go to the temple it's not necessarily a day and night thing and I think like where did the day and night thing first come from because I know it was somewhere and then I feel like it went away and now it's back yep am i c like that actually it was in the older version and then they came out with this updated and then now this new version so yeah they took it away they brought it yeah they brought it back yeah CU at first I I was like oh you know we're we were a law of Moses type of people and now were moving to the law of Christ and then I feel like they gave us yes be free and then these did not listen yeah and that's what I thought cuz when it says it's worn properly throughout your life in my head I was just like oh yeah just I just wear it whenever I'm not working out swimming showering yeah and then you know I seen some buddies it's like and I just thought to myself I thought when you put on the Garment that's like you wearing Christ so wouldn't you wear that every day that's what I'm thinking in my mind but the thing is I don't know is that like is is that doctor no or is that yeah yeah and it says it later on in this too how like it's a symbol of the veil and the veil is a symbol of Christ but I mean this is the ated version and so I feel like it is interesting how like I feel like a lot of things have been more like okay personal revelation but then with this specifically I feel like they like kind of real at that which like why and I feel like they are aware of like conversations that are happening online I don't know I want to get what do you think 100% they're aware of it I think that the old statement was like kind of being weaponized a little bit like I think members were using it as something to be like oh it's just a little more laax you know um and I love the clarity of the new version not because they're trying to like control what we're wearing but because they want us to know how important it is to wear it I have heard numerous stories about the Garment and the protection that it brings not just physically I have I'm sure you guys have heard some stories right like somebody was in a fire all the burns were on everywhere that their garment was not right but it's more about like spiritually I know when I am wearing the Garment and I am wearing it properly doesn't just mean like not altering it for fashion or whatever but it's wearing it so that you're not resenting it wearing it when you know what it actually means wearing it with faith wearing it with the understanding of what happens in the temple and why you received your you know that Covenant that you made um understanding the endowment right things like that and so when you are aware of those things and you are feeling like more secure in that you will feel strength and protection against like words against people who are negative online against people who are trying to you know contradict your faith and you're trying to you know stand up for it and be confident in it you can do that because of like the power from like wearing the Garment right y yeah I don't think that's far stretch at all I I think what's what's crazy to me is um how you brought up in the beginning you said you start with the end goal in mind and I think people's perception if you can shift your perception I think it helps you wear your garments and and and if you say you know the garments are going to be a daily reminder for me you're like okay like I want my daily reminder with me because I am human yeah but if you look at it as oh they're trying to tell me what to wear now you're start like you're starting with I don't know if that's the right perspective to go into you know and I know for me um I've had to wear my garments when I go play in my recck leagues because I have a history of maybe not being the most Christlike when I encounter competition you know I get a little too competitive and has genuinely helped me out I don't know how I don't know how it could just be Placebo in my head but I don't believe there are coincidences like like you mentioned and like do you like in terms of that power do you guys think you said it stretches beyond the physical do you think it stretches even beyond the spiritual and Taps into your mental oh yeah oh yeah because of the reminder that it is right um I thought about this the other day that it really is the first thing that you choose to put on right other sacred vestments that other religions wear where whether it's like a yamaka or you know a priest wears that that's usually on the outside the fact that we wear ours inwardly against our skin first of all it's our largest organ we absorb whatever is on our skin and so when we're absorbing like we literally have it as close to us as we possibly can like we want that's how close we want Christ to us is as close to us as we possibly can get him you know what I mean like and it's against our skin and so we're absorbing I thought about the other day I was like I'm like absorbing such a Heavenly thing because it's literally it's the one thing that we take away from the temple right it's we don't usually wear I mean I don't know who does so you might wear your temple dress right that you wear in the temple in your everyday life maybe you do and that would be really cute I love that but but most of the time the one thing that you bring out of the temple with you is the Garment and it is like such a sacred reminder so yes mentally I totally believe that it affects you 100% yes I I'm so with you and I love in this statement to um at the end I believe here sorry can I read this last part it just talks about how um as you keep your covenants including the sacred privilege to wear the Garment as instructed in the initiatory ordinances you will have greater access to the savior's Mercy protection strength and power and I believe that a th% from my experience wearing garments but I have seen um some people take a little bit of issue to that of like why well do I just not have like as much access to the savior if I'm not wearing garments like how does that work and how would you respond to that so hard cuz you want right like of course I want to tell everybody oh you have the same access but like unfortunately you don't like you have more access because of the Covenant it's and it's not the magical underwear right it's not this thing that I'm wearing like allows me to like I'm you know talking to Christ all the time I don't know like it's not that it's the Covenant that you're making and keeping that because president n has talked about how like when you are yolked to the Savior like through your covenants and you're staying on the Covenant path I'm picturing me and Christ right like yolked together because that's what it looks like is that but it's like that's when you will have access to that power because you're doing it together right and you have like that ultimate like the rest I think is what he talks about right um I've I've seen a lot of people have like take issue with like the savior's Mercy cuz I think they they assume that you're saying that like you won't be saved unless you make these covenants or unless you wear the temple garment and I don't necessarily think that's what it's saying you just have access to like his his Mercy In Like A in a different way like a and I'm like greater yes they they use that word greater and obviously we know from other rasband that like Words matter so obviously they put that in there on on purpose intentionally there was an intention behind it but I would also use the word like different right like maybe just a different access right to that to that power to that Mercy that protection than what like the rest of the world thinks does that make sense no totally totally it's just it's it's interesting because I know Sister Dennis's quote I'm sure you guys have probably talked about this to you were blue in the face but after the women's like conference that we had had um the Relief Society she had that quote about priesthood power and how like we like more women are endowed with like this access to priesthood power than any other religion and so many people were so frustrated because they're like no look at these women in this non-denominational Christian Church that can be you know priests and pastors and teachers and things like that and I'm like oh they it's it's different though their their mentality of what like priesthood power is is not do you know what I'm saying like it's just it's not the same and so when we say we have greater access to the savior's Mercy power and strength it it's because of that Covenant and if they don't understand the Covenant then unfort like they don't understand it and it's not a bad thing it's just that's that is how it is that this is what we receive like that's part of the we received from the covenants that we've made and wearing the temple garment is what helps us like with that as a reminder being there with Jesus Christ like that it's it's part of it and then coming back to like we wear that as a uniform right it's part of our uniform like that's what we wear as Disciples of Christ as members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints right I love that so much and I feel like The more I've studied and learned about covenants is I definitely used to see the Covenant path as a checklist first you do and because you have to go into specific orders like first you do this then you do this and then you do this when really and I feel like there have been so many talks about this in recent conferences that the Covenant path it's more how to build a relationship the Covenant is about a relationship and so when we talk about having different or greater access to the mercy and power it's just it's different because it's it's the Covenant it's the commitment you've made so it's it's a different relationship than someone who hasn't gone through and made those covenants and just to be so clear those that access to making those covenants is open to everyone it's open to anybody and so I feel like it's like it may seem exclusive right now CU it's like okay you're saying this to people who wear garments but like anyone can wear garments it's the commitment that you want to make with the Savior so anyway thank you for kind of clearing that up and I feel like that's super helpful do you have anything else on garments or modesty or honestly you said it I it's just funny um obviously dealing with social media you're going to have people that get offended by certain things and sometimes it's it's warranted but in this situation I think it's interesting because we pay that certain respect to different relationships because you can be dating somebody for 10 years and you can say that you know you truly love them yeah but when you get married there's going to be a different love when you have kids there's going to be a different love there's going to be different expectations as well right but we pay that respect to those things that we can I guess fully understand so I feel like when people start to understand fully what it means to be a covenant person it's not like oh B you get to wear garments you have access to all this power there's also a burden though like there's a burden a responsibility responsibility I say bur I'm here fighting my natural man no I'm get serious though like the responsibility for me when I go into the initiator and I see I I feel like oh I'm expected to I'm reminded of the covenants that I've made and I'm reminded okay B like to tell you guys I want to be a good person I could do that all day right but when you get in the temple and you tell the Lord hey I'm going to be a good person and this altar I'm going to sacrifice everything here and I'm going to wear these garments and I'm going to treat myself with love and I'm going to treat others with love as well that's a different that's a different expectation when you go I'm assuming one day when I get married my wife is going to be very much she's going to expect just a different level than she expected when when we were girlfriend right as opposed to when we were talking as opposed to we first met but I don't understand like why we can't understand that they're are different it's different for good reasons for everybody because you don't want to have the expectation of someone who has covenants and understanding of covenants as opposed to someone who just you know found out about Jesus Christ right that's such a good point well in going back to like you were talking about Small sacrifices and big blessings making those like small sacrifices and having these huge blessings I think that's part of this like greater access right we make that that small sacrifice like I mean in in my mind now like it's I think for it used to be a big sacrifice to like go to the temple right now it's like a small sacrifice like go to the Temple and so many big blessings come from that including greater access because of the like relationship that we're having you when you're married you have a better relationship with them and so you do have like greater access right like I feel like I have like a better relationship with my husband now than we did 10 years ago when we were first married and so yeah like in a way you have greater access to each other's like compassion because you've been through so much together you maybe You' had the wrestle right and so if you have that with the Savior and with Heavenly Father you're you're allowed to have that access oo I love this so much that like actually really I like had a whole light bul moment that was so great oh my gosh I love this this has been so great guys know it's it's in the gospel is always perception it's like tithing oh 10% or is it oh I get to keep 90% because 100% came from God anyways it's not mine so I think like perception with everything kind of rules where you view testimony but as I said I'm speaking as a man with modesty women got know I know like it's even hard for you Bachelor no this has been so good like and and talking about I feel like we can talk about this for like six more hours but we won't keep you I cannot thank you How to keep up with Hayley enough for being here like this has been so fun to get to know you more and hear your perspective on things tell everyone where they can keep in touch with you okay so I am my spiritual account is at the Haley Clark and then my swim account is at the honey Mark so it's cute because it Rhymes um you can find me there and then you can just find me at Honey mark. that's where swim swim is oh my gosh run up the numbers it's summer time if you want to do a little discount code we can talk offline and and we can put it in the description no pressure but if you want to but this has been so so fun thank you so much and thank you Bachelor for being here yes thank you Bachelor thank you guys this was super super fun I appreciate y being patient with me as I'm learn no we love it you're learning so good okay we'll see you guys later