Episode 22 - 1/26/2024: Listener Comments, NH Primary Results, & Alabama Execution

hi everybody thank you for joining us for another episode of a little friendly fire with your hosts Tim and Joe today we talk about Ben Shapiro's rap album we talk about Nikki Haley surprise in New Hampshire will Congress ever pass anything in the death penalty real light episode coming at you now thanks for joining [Music] can I can I start can I can I just can I start talking to you about this let's do it I just have there's so many of these things I just want to talk to you about just like I'm just interested to hear your perspective on them you know what I mean actually before we go in uh I think we should start with reviewing last week since we have some listener comments oh yes yes yes yes so Eric who filled in for us at a different point in time and has not been shy about letting me know his thoughts which I very much appreciate I love I remember Eric yes you brought him up before yes he's just like you have some people you've talked to about who fill you in on their thoughts you know Eric one of people who consistently fills me in on his and I'm happy that I got him to put down the long and short of it I think yeah yeah so just I think General observations from last week he couldn't believe that I can't write cursive uh he's like he he curses without cursing the f is the matter with you um but I I think I'd like to clarify that I can read cursive no problem I learned it in third third grade as I'm sure you did and then after third grade as I'm sure most people of our age and time period you were given the choice of do you write in cursive or print the rest of your life and then since computers evolved as we grew up I learned how to become a very good typer and I've never gone back to cursive so yeah I know what each letter looks like but to make my hand actually do the motion is chicken scratch so yeah I feel you like I don't remember is an uppercase K just a k with some loopies on it like is it just a fancy uppercase regular K there's a few letters that I bet most people don't remember in cursive I know it when I see it but I honestly could not make my hand make whatever the K is supposed to look like and I think that's one of those examples in education where it's important that we don't forget it and we include it but it's not something that we have to spend you know 3 years in elementary school making sure they remember how to write their perfect cursive I don't understand why it's necessary at all to teach the kids cursive ever again I think I think you have to know how to read it personally just because that's my as a history person as I said last time if you can't read it then all of a sudden we have hundred years of American History documents that we can no longer go back and read personally I feel that I feel that but like um how far back does that go like do you feel bad you can't read like Plato in its original text well all these so what all these documents like eventually be yeah but there's somebody out there who still knows Greek for sure and I guess I guess some just like people know Latin people will know script yes I read script professionally I could write in script you wouldn't believe it let me write your name in scripts that's probably just me getting old in holding on to something that's going to be slipping away you're right at some point they'll be an expert in cursive and scripts instead of an expert in another language that'll have to tell us what the Declaration venant says and we have to trust them instead of reading it ourselves well I mean it is I I don't want to I don't want to spoil the surprise to but you can find the full text of the Declaration of Independence right now oh I that's not in script yes but we live in an era where it's very hard to know what's real and what's not and I wouldn't be surprised if at some point in time we're going to get a conspiracy theorist telling us that there's something in the Declaration penants or not in the Declaration of penants and it's all a big conspiracy online and if you can't go back you turned script writing into fake news and that was the most amazing thing I've ever heard you do in this podcast that was amazing that was brilliant Master Class well I can draw it straws everywhere I guess H that was funny that's a good one I like that one so he also uh brought up for you he's like how do you not cite any of the articles that you brought up for what you read last week when you were thinking about when we were talking about the college loan and people moving away from colleges and stuff like that but you did cite Tupac he's like what f is matter are you give me the Articles you reading because I want to know well the most important thing to remember is that I don't remember anything about these articles after I read them I don't remember what they're named I don't remember I've gone back like sometimes I'll read an article on Monday and I go try to find it on Friday it's gone forever I have no idea what the person's name who wrote it is the title instantly dissipates I pull like three or four sentences that are interesting to me and then that's it it disappears forever I don't even think it exists anymore whereas Tupac he lives in my heart Wall Street journ JN one of the other many uh Publications you probably get links through social media or wherever else you navigate right yeah I do the um there's that little scroll thing at the bottom left of your computer that gives you just like that little splattering of news so every once in a while I go on there and it's like half of it is ads and half of it is pop culture which I love you know may I always try to keep up on pop culture I really like enjoying that stuff so and it gives you a wide variety it gives you foxes on there and CNN just little blurbs of popular articles from all over the web so I jump on there a few times a day just to like scroll through and see if there's anything that tickles my fancy that's what I try and do with Google News because it'll give me a wide variety of places that I wouldn't always go to naturally yeah so I do the same thing he also noted for education I think I mentioned this that schools are now required to teach personal finance but as in any sub subject that does depend on the teacher um that is something he personally taught so he's very aware of how much kids pay attention to it and what the likelihood is of the students actually benefiting from the class based off what teacher they get and stuff like that and dude my right after that I found out that my wife was in a meeting for her school and they were like hey K starting from K we're teaching money money's back so like the first grade teacher the was like well that's good I never stopped teaching it so it's it's fine so just like to your point it's becoming a thing again but some people never left it you know what I mean they've been apparently doing it the whole time he he's got I still have a couple more to hit here so I'm going to try and go through quickly oh sorry no no no no problem and he did it very organized I like it so I can really follow along here I'm so chatty you know what I mean I have so many things I've been excited to talk to you loan forgiveness uh he he referenced a little bit of the programs out there he went through a a program himself but it took him 5 years of phone calls emails although he personally actually agrees with you that he's not really for loan forgiveness but he wasn't going to not take advantage of the program available everybody take advantage for everything you can you can disagree with something still take advantage of to for for it to be there I get it don't die on that principle you know what I mean and then this one I I got out of texting with him he didn't include his initial thoughts but I thought it was hilarious and must be brought up there has been a COR in the rising number of student debt and fans only Pages coincidence question mark oh my gosh now first of all we mean only fans right not fans only yes that's how I I I read it exactly as it worded but yes he means only fans I think um man definitely can I tell you something if I could pull it off I would have an only fans 100% you I there's no speculation needed if I could pull that off that's where I would be that's what I would do for a living surprised here I am on only fans well this is really what we're doing right we're just building up enough name recognition so that way when you unleash it you have a builtin base already oh God like for $50 I'll get on the phone and argue with you about almost anything you want without a shirt see and that's where you that's where I get lost right now you know what I mean Tim your phone would be backing up you would be like Joe n you know what n it's okay voice for radio face for radio face for radio and and lastly he said kudos to the point on the Millennials in the housing market he thought that was a very good point oh thank you thank you I've been I've been thinking about blood at housing more than people should I you know I just feel so bad for a generation I was talking about you know and we don't get any credit and we just get pooped on the other the greatest generation is literally called the greatest generation right now Millennials are like treated as the [ __ ] stain of society and I just I fight for us I I think that's gen Z right now gen Z is the one that gets all of the [ __ ] right now and we're the ones that we're the Forgotten ones because everything bad has happened to us so they're like a Millennials those they never had a [Laughter] chance oh God speaking of what a segue here never having a chance New Hampshire I was riveted by New Hampshire all of it I ate it up I couldn't get enough tell me everything you think about it I was kind of well so after we recorded our last episode we recorded on a Friday and I think that Sunday right before we release this one DeSantis drops out and immediately I was like that was probably the worst timing for Nikki Hy because Dan santis was more likely to siphon off Trump votes right yeah so as soon as that happened I thought I bet you his lead is going to jump up to 25 points or something and the fact that it didn't makes it a little interesting but he you know still handily won I find it interesting more of what's happened since the New Hampshire results have come out how Trump's gotten like a little more on the attack with her even though he's in a stronger position so I don't know what his feelings are there or and then Nikki Hy has raised so much money from his comments regarding he doesn't want any Nikki Hy donors to come to his side like this just seems weird squabbling to me yeah I first of all the santis i' he has been just despicable from the start and it definitely was a plan it defin you feel it happening you feel you like I'm sure we'll talk about it later about what's going on in Congress and the Border deal and stuff Republicans are starting to bow to Trump again they are starting to literally just pave the way that Tim Scott whatever that was situation that picture of him just standing behind Trump with that smile on his face was like jarring it was a jarring image that whole situation was crazy but dude Nikki Haley finishing within nine points of trump like that to me was like amazing I felt the same way Nikki Haley did people are like Nikki Haley made victory speech I was like yeah and Trump made a a loser speech they each say switched roles Haley was like this is great praise be to God we got this and Trump was like I don't get mad I get even you know what I mean like it was so bizarre but that's what happened right Trump looked at those numbers he has to look at them this way anybody else looked at them none of the Nikki Haley voters are going to vote for Trump they straight up said they're not going to vote for him that remember how he said there's a contingent of me out there and it made me feel like we all are there and we're like the Republican independent voters right now and Trump doubled down and and my wife is right next to me she will admit I said this I was willing I'm like I am not saying who I'm voting for this election I might vote for Trump I might vote for Biden you know I have I am going to wait until it gets to the point where like they win or lose my vote and then literally Trump does everything in his power to say I don't want you guys I don't need you guys don't come here this is just us and I'm like okay well he made this super easy thanks anyway I get the feeling you know but it was um I know Nikki Haley's done she she was like oh we're on to South Carolina because she knows she's going to lose Nevada so badly right like I love that she's staying in because it just is making Trump so angry and that's hilarious to me because it really is showing a highlight on his diminishing cognitive uh abilities right he is is losing his mind him and Biden are just literally the two most bumbling people I've ever seen in like run for office before and George W Bush was like comical you laughed all the time these two it's almost like sad you watch them and like Joe Biden's completely incoherent at times Donald Trump doesn't even know where he is or who he's talking to who he's talking about slurring his speech he's like these two are I can't even believe it's real yeah well I I'm surprised you're so enthusiastic about the Nikki Haley 9% loss I I thought like a week ahead of time that 9% was going to be worse than what she was going to get I thought she was going to get like I don't know within 5% I thought there was like a real legit shot she'd be in that almost margin of error in like a normal poll and then this s just drops out and there was a poll right beforehand thinking he was going to win by 20 or whatever I and I mean I I guess I agree that this is kind of she might be able to set herself up as the clear 2028 oh she is but by by continuing on a little bit and proving her validity in a difficult Republican primary situation as long as Maga loses if Maga wins she's still the eneme so it's just how many more I guess she could continue attracting more members of the conservative party she takes more moderate she goes more moderate and she pulls in the Democrats that's how she would have to do it right cuz those Maga people are gone but those people are crazy you know they are they are the minority they're going to be moving away so she takes all of May the moderate liberals it's a spot man that's a spot well could it also be I doubt this but could it also be a strategy of like this is a way she can hurt Trump without having to say say that she's against Trump I I know she's been ramping up her attacks particularly since New Hampshire when he started ramping his attacks up against her but if she drags out this primary even knowing she's not going to win when know even she's going to be forcing Trump to spend time and resources on the primary as opposed to shifting everything to the general election and oh yeah keeping the Republicans from getting United pretty much guaranteeing uh the the the shot that MAA might die with him in 2024 I am so anti-a for so many reasons most of them have to do with the economy honestly his 10% and I'm not going to get into it because it's probably boring 10% tariff plan that he has on everything is the craziest thing I've ever heard somebody say I I just cannot believe that's even policy that he would even say out loud it just is it is absolutely mindboggling to me so just anybody who cares about the economy whatsoever to believe in what they're what they're selling you is is a load of of Croc he's moved away from everything he believed in himself in 2016 you know what I mean he is not he's not pushing the same economic agenda he's just saying let's go back there but everything he's saying he's going to do takes you away from what he was doing you know what I mean like you're trying to promise people the economy that they had preo but the actions you're saying you want to move our economy in are opposed to what you were doing before you know what I mean he used to be anti- entitlement right he was anti-obamacare he was anti giving this and now he saw all the positive press he got from covid and he is just throwing money he is just wants to spend spend spend spend and raise money by taxing like Imports that's like like hurting he said he was going to literally remove inflation in the same thought as doing this 10% tariff I'm what in the world is going on here you are literally raising the costs of goods by putting a 10% tariff on everything so how is that affecting inflation it's it's it's literally it it's just asinine it's just as I I I got so derailed I don't even remember what my point is anymore but I am thrilled you know what oh here it is I don't care if if if Republicans lose his election cuz Biden is so bad even already and four more years of him there's no chance the Democrats win the next election after this there's just like there's a zero unless Biden goes into a coma and then somebody else comes up like some democrat literally is going to have to like really be something special to come up and overshine every current member in the Democratic party right now to be able to take people's eyes off of the corpse who's going to be our president for the next four years so like maggot's out Nikki Haley comes in Republicans can ride a wave here you know what I mean take another four years of anel that's fine we don't have our stuff in order right we don't want to lead right now we can't we can't figure out what's going on at home right let's get our stuff together and let's really push for 2028 it's going to be like a slam dunk well I disagree with some of what you're talking about with the negativity of another four years of BU but I do think you offered really good segue into the inability of Republicans to lead and Trump just destroying the Republican party and the [Music] any possible messaging they can put out there that they can lead with what happened with the Border Ukraine uh deal this week unbelievable bro unbelievable well from the Senate side there has been work for months now two or three months at least on trying to create a package that combines Ukraine Aid as well as some other foreign aid with border changes uh including up spending on the border and agents and and other kinds of stuff like that and some some changes in policy that Republicans want to see and the house had already passed their own Republican only version that was very very strict and they've already kind of made it clear it was hr2 yes it was hr-2 unlikely that they would agree Dead on Arrival dead that's a dead Bill no chance yes the hr2 yes yes and so anyway the the Senate version if it had passed there there was maybe a small pathway but there was a pathway for something to happen since Republicans any any Republican that's not an extremist knows that when you're have such a slim majority in only one part of the government and the Democrats control the other parts to get any kind of win you're going to have to make some compromises and you can just say like we got part of what we wanted we forced the Democrats to do a few things they didn't want to do and when we get back in power we'll do the rest right they they could easily spin that for a win and Trump essentially made it publicly declared this week that he wants the bill killed so they have the issue that he can run on in the general election yep yep I I think it's absolutely amazing that Biden's like yo guys we got to get some some Aid to Ukraine we got to do it right stop Putin his Vance let's do this guys and Republicans are like no what we really have to do is border security put this border security in this bill Biden's like all right you got it and boy a beautiful Act of people doing things together I don't agree I don't think with either part of it you know what I mean I think I hate the entirety of this thing and I hope it does Fall to Pieces honestly but and then Trump comes out it's just like nah no no nah the economy is doing too good now the the economy is not going to collapse so we can't say everything's terrible in the economy so what are we going to do we can't fix this border issue so we have to just let it linger just kill this bill I have to show that something's terrible like don't you feel like that would be exposed like instantly if anyone again I don't know how many times I have to say this if anyone would say this other than Trump they would be demolished and forced out of politics and he can say things that no one else can ever get away with yeah I'm sure there have been times where the uh upcoming elections of some Congress person Senator president whatever where they've tried to finagle the timing or but it's all like Hush Hush wink wink it's it's something that can't be done where it's ever obvious because it's immoral it's against your what you stand for when you're a leader in government right you're supposed to be yeah focusing on doing the job for the Americans not for keeping your position and to be so open and Brazen and saying just like how dare you do any thing to help the Democrats even if it's something we've been calling for for 10 years if it's going to help their election chances like that's just it's just so anti-democratic it is unbelievable it's it's unreal this guy it's just and did you hear today he lost that uh or they he lost the lawsuit for the uh defamation charges so he had already lost the lawsuit he was just figure out the amount this was yeah the the case this week was just a jury case determining how much he owed and this was the second defamation case that this person had brought against him because after the first defamation case he was so upset he defamed her again oh yeah and so they just piled it on yeah yeah they said it was like uh it was $83 million and they broke it down and it was like 16 million was because he did it and 18 million was cuz of pain and suffering and 60 million was because he just kept doing it and didn't care you know what I mean it was like the the grand majority broken up into three categories and the third category was clearly just said it's because you're an [ __ ] you know what I mean like I was read stuff from the thing that he would just be like loudly whispering to like his lawyers be like this is a hoax this is a conspiracy it's a Witch Hunt and they'd be like please please stop stop I'm going to throw you out of here but youd love that wouldn't you and he goes I absolutely would yes like he didn't have to be in any of these courtt cases no he chose to go there because it would help his political chances and hurt I'm sure his chances in this case because no juror who's going to watch him act like this is going to think this guy's anything less than a douchebag you know what I mean even so this is a New York jury so they'll you're going to find less Trump supporters in it but if you're even a trump supporter in this joury and you know that like as a juror you're being held to a high standard where if you whispered that out loud man this is a political hoax like you would be in serious trouble the court would hold you in serious trouble and watching him do it from that position and just knowing that he can get how that's got to Rattle you right like it's got to make you realize this is wrong nobody should be able to get away with this yeah yeah uh it it's just uh I I feel less worried about the election that I have so far because just looking at The Independents who voted in New Hampshire and just the the feelings of people he's like down in every category he was in when he lost last year you know what I mean so like all of these important categories that he didn't have when he because he lost the election is worse now you know what I mean the people like he is just pushing away everybody I just feel like it's just now going to start piling on this guy like people are going to turn on him everyone's kind of let him be he's been running for office for like two and a half years now you know what I mean he put out his bid so long ago he's just been kind of always here and you feel the heat starting to turn up on him right Biden is forced to be out he's forced to be doing these things and he's getting made fun of all the time and for every article I see about Biden being incoherent and old there's one for Trump now you know what I mean he is he is losing it so I I am not really worried about him you know there's a few States I feel like but um I don't know I I don't feel like he has a legitimate chance to win honestly that's just what my gut's telling me I would say you're I'm in agreement with your gut at this point in time but we're also 10 months away n and a half months away and a lot can change in nine and a half months so we'll definitely be keeping an eye on that I'm sure yeah I I I guess but like Biden's going to do what he's been doing which is just be quiet right if it wasn't for Israel he'd be doing like okay you know Trump has to make a Ruckus all the time and that's only going to turn away people you know every time he says it he's going to turn away one person who it's their pet peeve you know what I mean just like one person every day is going to be like that's enough you know what I mean he's just going to just Whittle people away and Whittle people away and uh I don't want to live four more years of this isn't this exhausting mhm it reminds me of when he was in office it was terrible it was terrible it just people turning up that's the thing that makes me feel like it's not going to happen now you don't feel that same tenacity yet I don't know if it's coming soon or people still aren't paying attention than just you and I are because we're crazy about it but I don't know I'm not as optimistic at just with how much time there still is to go between now and then I mean this would be a great segue I can make right here about the death of Trump's chances and the death of uh Mr Smith in Alabama yes I am really this is this whole thing I read an article or two about it today and holy mackerel this is this is a twisted case yeah he was like on death row for like 25 35 years the original crime that he was found guilty for goes back to around the time we were born I believe it was 1988 yeah 1988 the murder that he was found guilty with other people for occurred in 1988 I don't know exactly when he was like he was like a he was a murder For Hire right murder for high Cas yes just a few of the things I guess that interest me because I don't know much about the crime and to be honest with you it's been 35 years so like I'm less interested in the crime honestly at this point you know I I just to be honest with you the fact that he they tried to execute him once with Le and Jackson and it didn't take and they like were stabbing his arm for hours or like I I for hours or just dozens of tries it just sounds like I thought I learned that if somebody tried to like you tried to flip the switch electric chair and the power went out that you're off you're clear it's like act of God you're you're safe to go now like how did they stick him in the arm with lethal injection and then still wait a few more years then execute him again so well the reason I brought this case up because we haven't mentioned it yet is because this was the first execution that occurred with a new method the first at least known in the world where they tried to kill him with nitrogen the exact term nitrogen hypoxia which is I I to my understanding they what take like a gas mask put it over your face and the only thing that gets to your face is nitrogen so you're deprived of oxygen and this took place in Alabama and the Alabama authorities were claiming that this was supposed to essentially put you to sleep or make you unconscious in a very short period of time and then it would be a painless death as you just like were deprived of oxygen but I had noticed this before the execution actually took place I don't know if you saw saw that before the execution no the UN there was like an agency in the UN that put out a notice saying like Alabama don't do this this is going to be torture there was already big authority figures stepping in saying this is not going to go the way you think this is probably going to lead to like seizures or something and it's it's an untested method and the reason Alabama was going to it is because I've read this over the years is it's become hard for them to come across the drugs that they use for lethal injection so yeah you can't get them states have been looking for new ways to execute people or are going back to old ways to execute people and I've seen a lot of Supreme Court cases related to death penalty stuff in the past couple years and this is just a weird one because yes they tried to kill him I don't remember how long ago it was but it was years right it was like it was it was some time five six years ago like it was minute ago and the number in my head is two years I don't remember it was a non insignificant amount of time oh you're right it wasn't like November 2022 so like a little over a year and the reason they couldn't was they had a very shortened time frame because when they authorize a death penalty they give you like until this point in time they can try and kill you I don't know why that I'm sure there's some legal reason to it doesn't make sense to me but when they do it like here's your time frame to do it and they waited till closer to I guess the midnight of the deadline and by the time they had them all set up they couldn't get the vein that they needed so when they were trying to stab him with the needle for the injection they they couldn't find the place it would go properly to make sure he received the drugs to kill him so he survived it Tim you talking about the method of this guy trying to be executed and then it being unsuccessful brought me to a question I wanted to get your perspective on how do you feel about that reasoning like if you tried to execute somebody and it doesn't work and then they're off the hook is that like is that a real thing first of all I don't know if legally speaking that's a real thing anywhere do I think it should be I I am fairly certain if you like do something and it doesn't work then you're free to go I I think in certain circumstances that might make sense like if they had successfully gotten the drugs in him and it did not kill him if made him go through crazy violent reaction and they ended up he ended up Surviving it I don't know like they gave him the punishment and he somehow survived the punishment but by not being able to actually even give him the drugs I'm not sure I I brought this up more so because this is such a unique situation really to get your thoughts on what you think about capital punishment in general but did you see oh yeah the actual results of the execution of what the descriptions were coming out I didn't see it like I didn't watch it but I read about what happened yeah obviously nobody I think could see it unless you were in the room to see it but the descriptions from the journalists that were in there was essentially like he convulsed and there were different explanations being given to it the Alabama Authority said like he was trying to hold his breath at first and then was fighting the restraints and I think some of the reporters were and even the pastor or whoever it was the religious figure he was allowed to have there for him was describing it as like it seemed violent and torturous for minutes not like a like a short like one and then you know unconscious so yeah I don't know if we have any results proving one way or the other yet if it was a peaceful way to go as Alabama would claim or a violent way to go as the critics would would argue I I read that it was like in my mind it was like 20 minutes of like breathing then several minutes of writhing then several minutes and that's the word they use was writhing it was W Street Journal and then several minutes of deep breathing so it seemed like it was like a long time of nothing happening then it wasn't good for a while and then it was like calm and then off to the end but um how do I feel about capital punishment in Tim I didn't know I I brought myself in a lot of different places to think about this so right off the bat do you know where you are on the issue or you do you feel strongly I I I had a feeling we're probably both somewhere in the middle on this I I don't really know we've never had this discussion before yeah but we have probably some areas of disagreement which I'm sure we can find here I think it is only consistent with a lot of my other beliefs like morally I don't believe in capital punishment but I think that our justice system and the history of Justice systems in general like to say there's never a circumstance where capital punishment is acceptable is just something we probably can't do I I would just like to see it as limited as possible I think that's the big picture position I would describe I I feel that like I I started with the extreme serial killers yes yes I think so now that comes with uh me very well knowing that everything that has like the capital punishment has murdered people for has killed people for has like sometimes been things that aren't real right like you're a witch and sometimes there are things that um that probably can be fixed or more understood now in a way that they wouldn't have back then so like I am definitely I understand that in 250 years from now there might be like a cure for the mental illness that comes along with some of these people that are doing these things right so like right now here's my problem you have these human beings who cannot live within our society for whatever reason it is right it's like you cannot stop being with children you cannot stop murdering people right like if you cannot be with the general population what do you do with them I I don't think it's Humane just like what are you going to put a bunch of violent dogs in one Shelter by themsel and just be like go at it guys I hope none of you guys get out of here no you you take those violent animals and you and you put them to sleep right because they're violent you can't have them around so I I feel like it it pains me it pains me deeply and I feel like that there should be um every effort given to try to avoid this but like I read some things about this guy and he's in prison for 35 years and they were like he was in prison for longer than he had with his mother you know what I mean so like he was a person who is a product of a situation just like anybody else is right so I don't know all the facts of this case to say whether or not I agree with this one in particular but I would say that I agree with capital punishment and I think it should be the most humane way possible to me lethal ejection makes the most sense that's like if it was me I'd like to go while I'm sleeping so just give me something in my arm that puts me to sleep that's like you do it with your p that's how I would want to be put down I think that's like why you don't have to hurt the person the goal is to get that person out of the pool you're out you can't be here with us anymore we're just letting you free we're letting you go you're obviously in pain anyway you know what I mean I like your logic of the historical like the uses of it in the past we don't necessarily find acceptable today and you're right I never thought about hey maybe in 200 years from now you're right there could be some kind of understood treatment that would prevent or resolve the problems these people who are committing these crimes so that's interesting to think about I've never thought about it that way but I would argue that there are probably just as many if not more people who oppose putting down dogs than putting down people right so just because we do it with dogs doesn't necessarily mean we should do it with people in this particular case I think the two things that troubled me most were that they were trying a new method I think that's what Drew my attention to it and that there was great debate over whether or not by people around the world paying attention to Alabama's execution about if this was a good idea or not and then the other thing that troubled me which is no longer a problem but I don't know if you saw this detail at the time he was convicted of the crime the jury recommended life in jail I think they said the vote was 11 to1 they used to and no longer allow judges to override jury's decisions on the sentencing and the judge overrode the jury's decision to execute him so a single person overrode the jury of his peers that voted 11:1 to life in prison now I think I read that that's also no longer allowed in any state in the country but they clearly thought it was wrong got rid of it and they still made him suffer I guess by the decision they realized was probably the wrong way to go yeah they didn't realize that so that sucks that sucks it's uh man people got big egos you know what I mean there's like there's no willingness to admit wrongness you know what I mean it's just it's so crazy it's so crazy that you would do all of this for for what is there like a like a hatred in you like like how well it's just it it it surprises me it surprises me that action of of of capital punishment to me is not retribution or revenge based because that doesn't give you anything right like that is an action wholly separate to what happened to you right you had a circumstance that happened to you that affected your mind and potentially your body and then whatever happens to the person who did it to you does not affect you in any way right like you choose to allow these factors to come in to affect you as much or as little as you want like we know it's not healthy revenge and retribution are not healthy habits to have right so I just don't understand why that like why people would even think in those terms you know what I mean if if the goal is to remove dangerous people from our society and a jury said yeah keep them there what what's the difference to you why why would you need to override that why would you feel the need well we're getting at trying to understand I guess what is the point of the justice system in general there and I yeah it's not a Revenge system it's a justice system there may have been ego involved or not that that it could be related or not related but I'm sure the judge spent time thinking about what the family would feel at the end with the punishment that was being given and I don't know if that's something that should be completely removed obviously it shouldn't be up to the family it's a just supposed to be an unbiased justice system but part of the reason we have a justice system put in place is not just to remove the people who commit crimes but also to create what we think is the fair punishment to the crime committed meaning you have to kind of consider what actions they took on not just the person but that that if they went and killed the guy's wife they killed Somebody's Mother they killed somebody's grandmother like I don't think that's wrong to keep that as part of your thought process I do just because it's an emotion it's a feeling that's just a feeling none of that is based in reason or fact that's all the way that you feel about these things happening and to me that doesn't have a place anywhere like you're making you're making a decision here what's the court for did you do it yes or no all right then it's the punishment right and to me the punishment is it's got to be some kind of Rehabilitation effort because the goal isn't capital punishment is never Rehabilitation though yeah but that means you can't fix that person to me capital punishment is this person cannot be fixed there's not and they are a danger to every person around them like to me I would never want a person whose job it is to be a a a security guard at a Maximum Security Prison to be forced to be around somebody who would kill them I I just I like that why would you make innocent people have to do that for this person so that person could live by himself in solitude in some cage like that's not Humane either like I understand capital punishment for what it is you know what I mean and that means that there is no Rehabilitation so if we can't fix these people I think that's what that's what the inevitable conclusion is but it has nothing to do with the feelings of the family like is that person going to be safe is he gonna life to me life in prison is you made a terrible mistake that you have to pay for for the rest of your life but you're no harm to anybody around you I I don't know if I mean that the feelings of the family should be considered per se but for every crime there's pretty much a range of punishments that can be doled out correct for for sure so between jury or judges whoever is making that decision they have to then way where in the range of punishments for this particular crime should the person fall so there is some subjectivity emotion considerations to what the person did in their actions that makes their murder different than another murder or their whatever crime different than somebody else who committed the crime so there is some room for maneuvering in there let me ask you this question let me ask you this question completely hypothetical 250 years in the future chat GPT is a is a the jury of your peers convicts you of guilty or not of a crime chat GPT Justice comes in it knows everything about your whole life and it dos out to you a punishment that has the highest statistic probability of you not recommitting this act or rehabilitating you would you take that in an instant or not I I what you described is probably what will happen within 250 years right so and and can I tell you what that is that is zero feelings zero emotions this is a transaction why have why have we not done that yet there's we there's going to be you're telling me that there's not going to be if we are successfully around as a society and AI has not overwhelmed us as every movie would tell us in 250 years from now we've probably added some sort of basic human element to AI so it doesn't out logic that we need it needs to destroy us so it can save the world or whatever right like so there has to be we haven't reached that point of giving it some of the human style thinking yet I imagine if we get to that point there will be some chat GPT version you know 863 will have some human element in there in its logic that that is that is a fair point wellmade sir well made potentially but mine is a theoretical may never happen option I'm just saying if I could develop a perfect system with zero emotion that gives you the right answer every time would you take it and I think would probably yes yeah not saying that that's possible to ever be you describe something very interesting to think about but can I tell you though my core belief is that either we are continuing on this road that we are now and we will not continue to survive right we are just going to continue to get angrier and figher and weapons get more dangerous and we wipe yourselves out or you get to a point where you um I imagine that you move beyond that and you and you learn that like the way other people are and act and be has nothing to do with you and you could live a happy life without all of these things I think that you your Society can move to a point Beyond these things Beyond these constructs right and I think that those are kind of the two directions it could go um and I'd like to believe that we can get there Tim what what has happened to you Joe you have become The Optimist believing that there will be a Utopia that we all live in one day I think that's the only two options only two options apocalypse or Utopia apocalypse or Utopia that's it there is no in between that's what I believe believe for us at least I I think Humanity in 250 years from now will be like Humanity now and that there will be plenty of good and progress that we have made and plenty that still needs to be addressed what a safe answer what a safe our entire human history I think it's a very reasonable pragmatic answer that we are never going to be perfect beings very reasonable unless chat GPT becomes our over Lord we will forever be flawed beings let me ask you this let me ask you this if you could give up your free thought in order to live in complete happiness in complete harmony with everyone and everything around you would you take it isn't that like what she's pitching over in China right like let's monitor everybody's thought online right I no I take it more of that's what like you believe Heaven Is Right is you believe that you spiritually go out and you join with this large being right I know Christianity isn't quite like this but most a lot of other major religions do believe that you become part of this larger being it's almost like I'm I'm interested to think would you take that give up my free thought no yeah no chance we're not going to make it it's going to be Apocalypse Now for sure for sure we got to be individuals even though we're all the same well I think we can learn to accept each other's similarities over our differences it doesn't mean you have to give up your free thought yeah I can't believe you're the one pitching to me an ideal Society where everyone is equal and you do not have differing of opinions and well can I tell you I am still uh where do I what do I know to be true as a fact right capitalism is the best thing that we got is the best thing we got right now don't mess around yes I don't come to me with anything else don't come to me with your socialism don't come to me with your communism don't come to with anything that we've tried before because we tried it before doesn't work I don't want to hear about it so like anybody who comes me pitching anything that's that what it was no you're wrong capitalism is the right answer right and I believe you take it cuz it's what's working right but am I going to be the person if somebody comes up with a better idea to turn my back on it no I don't think anybody in the world would well I think everybody in the worldbody the world but I think most rational people wouldn't right and we know what capitalism is for its flaws we know what it is we're all part of this system together every one of us who right now is year 20 with 30 more years of working ahead of them understands the harm and the pain that comes with working a life in this capitalist system that we built for ourselves you know what I mean like we understand what this is that we're living if there was a better way I think we'd explore it and I'm saying I would explore it too and I just don't know what direction that goes in but I feel like unbridled the direction that we're going I I have I have a tough time feeling optimistic about the path that we're on without some major changes and I would be very hesitant to try any new path that tells me I can't have any of my own thoughts along that path well I guess you know what it is Tim it's not about not having your own thought and that and that must be a that I guess a wrong way to put it but do you remember do you remember that Rick and Morty episode where there is um I forgot the name it's like Rick's girlfriend Unity Unity have you seen the unity not seen that episode no Unity uh is Rick's s's girlfriend and she takes over an entire planet and she is like just a thought a Consciousness she's like a god I guess and she takes over this planet right and it is just all people living a life but it's like they all are part of her this system whatever and Rick and mor them are like this is terrible fix this get this away and they like sever the ties and the world goes back to it was before she took it over and it was like um a terrible World filled with harm and crime and racism and just people killing each other constantly and repression and whatever else and they walk out of it like well I think I think we did the right thing did did we do the right thing every everybody was happy and alive and now they a lot of them are dead and and a lot of them are miserable but they're on their own and you walk away thinking sheesh okay this is there's a grayer area in the middle of this somewhere you know what I mean and I and I don't believe it has to go with giving away your free thought as much as it is you get to you you see things with a perspective of more than just yourself how about that as you were describing that to me a world in which everyone understood each other's perspectives a lot better would be a way better world and I think what we need is a world where there's more self sacrifice for the greater good and that doesn't God there was a there was a political party who used to believe that Tim do you remember who they were no they were the Republicans they were the Republicans you know I mean when was that George Bush drove around a pickup truck used to help clean off roads you know what I mean that used to be the values that we used to pretend to be even if we weren't but we were just here to help that's what we were now look at us I thought the motto was of that Republican party to pull them everybody up by your own bootstraps absolutely absolutely s your your nuclear family right your neighborhoods your communities right yes it takes a lot of any person could be successful any person can do anything they need to do but everybody runs into problems and everybody needs help and you get help from a strong family a strong Community right that was the whole thing but not your government get the government out of here the government just complicates things they slow it down the government ruins things we don't have to look forward to realize this you're right the government does not help anyone ever and we can't find examples of that either they literally just murdered a guy like yesterday Tim all right I don't know if you read the news or not H what else what else this week well you got one of your predictions right if I'm not mistaken yeah Ravens right well Harbaugh the other Harbaugh he he got hired he's an NFL coach now did not stay in college the Chargers yes chargers chargers right mhm and then we'll find out on Sunday if the Ravens end up in the Super Bowl I know you know the NFL wants Taylor Swift at that Super Bowl you know more than anything in the whole world that NFL they're writing a script right now they would love it if she showed up because the Chiefs went and then like made a surprise appearance at the halftime show because she's already there absolutely it is their dream their dream for Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs to win this game so much that I like am sure they're going to find a way to do it they are really they're going to be so obvious about it all right love you buddy love you too have a good one thank you so much for listening we hope you'll join us next week as we continue to keep you updated on current events and dig for some differences that we can hash out remember all discussions heard here reflected our thoughts or opinions over the course of that conversation we are not claiming to be experts and reserve the right to change our minds in the future as should we [Music] all [Music]