Episode 22: "Remember SGT Robert Sanchez", w/ Gold Star Mother and Brother, Wendy and Logan Holland

[Music] 6 o' get online move up on me online on me 01 this is 05 we have effective fire on our [Music] position it's about to get [ __ ] weird bro welcome to Hero Games podcast episode 22 I'm your host JD and I'm joined by my brother co-host Johnny today we're sitting down with the mother and brother of Sergeant Robert Sanchez and before we introduce them I want to share a few words there is no greater honor than to give one's life for their country a sacrifice that elevates ordinary men and women to the status of Legends when a soldier Falls in battle they do more than fulfill a duty they become become symbols of Bravery selflessness and patriotism forever etched into the history of their nation in their final moments they achieve a form of immortality becoming symbols of sacrifice and guardians of Liberty yet this profound honor comes with a deep and painful dichotomy while these brave men and women Ascend into the realm of Legend their absence leaves an Irreplaceable void in the lives of those they loved families friends and communities are left to navigate the void created by their absence bearing the heavy burden of a future forever altered the weight of their sacrific is shared not just by the nation they died for but also by the families they left behind the dichotomy lies in the intersection of honor and heartache on one hand the Fallen are celebrated for their unwavering dedication to a cause greater than themselves their story serving as a Beacon of Hope and inspiration on the other hand their loved ones are left to mourn to Grapple with the immeasurable loss of someone they cherished to die for one's country is to be remembered forever but in this sacrifice there is both glory and sorrow the fallen heroes achieve a form of immortality through their deeds but their absence is a stark reminder of the personal cost of war the honor of their sacrifices Inseparable from the pain it causes those who loved them most and yet while so painful it remains so necessary to keep the torch of Liberty lit Sergeant Robert Daniel Sanchez 24 was a team leader assigned to First platoon Bravo Company first battin 75th Ranger regiment at Hunter Army Airfield Georgia he was born on July 19th 1985 in Miami Florida Sanchez was killed during a combat operation in zere District Afghanistan October 1st 2009 he was on his fifth deployment in support of the global war war on terror with three previous deployments to Iraq and one to Afghanistan when Rob was 12 years old he wanted to be a Buddhist monk that changed after 911 after graduating from satellite Senior High School in Satellite Beach Florida Sanchez enlisted in the US Army from his hometown of Patrick Air Force Base Florida July 2004 he completed one station unit training at Fort Benning Georgia as an infantryman after graduating from the basic Airborne course he was assigned to the ranger indoctrination program where he earned the coveted tan Beret and Ranger scroll his Awards and decorations include the ranger tab combat infantryman's badge expert infantryman's badge parachutist badge Army Commendation Medal joint service Achievement medal army Good Conduct Medal National Defense service medal Afghanistan campaign medal with combat star Iraq campaign medal with combat star global war on terrorism service medal Army Service ribbon and the purple heart he has survived by his parents CSM retired will and Wendy Holland and his brothers Jacob Goldberg and Logan Holland Rangers lead the way and today we're joined by Miss Wendy Holland and Mr Logan Holland glad to have you guys thank you so the agenda is to kind of dial it all the way back to when Rob was just a we little guy growing up with Wendy and we'll talk through his childhood joining the Army his experience in the Army from your perspective um that fateful day and then life after that we'll talk a little bit about your hero games experience we'll close it out all right let's do it yeah so I've heard a lot of these stories and over the past week our crew has heard a lot of these stories um but now we want everyone to have access to those so that's the intent here so let's start with I guess when your life changed for the first time with Rob when he was born well I was 18 when I had Rob and oh my mother was so upset I wasn't married and she's like you're not bringing that bastard child into my house but as of course as soon as he was born they loved him to death he was actually my mom was 38 when I had him so it was kind of like a doover for her they helped me a lot um he's just amazing he was beautiful like one of his kids as soon as he was born born he was beautiful and he stayed beautiful he had maybe a 12 he had an awkward stage but I mean I just H he was great he was spoiled rotten brat he was I don't know my parents helped me so much that he never listened to me and then I got married to my ex husband Jacob's dad and um for a we only stayed married for like five years and then I met my husband now and Rob was like 12 or 13 when we met so um that's how we got the satellite my husband's in the AR was in the Army um Rob his first Halloween costume he was Rambo and of course he was only one and a half so that was something I chose but he was so cute but it seemed like that started it when he was like four I think or five he was a Ninja Turtle for like literally a whole year he wanted to be called Raphael and the other one be wanted to be called Leonardo Jake his brother and then he played he loved um I think when he was like seven or eight we put him into Taekwondo is that like I think that's the the karate that all the kids took at that age you know and um he loved it I think that was his first obsession with or true he wanted to be a ninja and then when he started high school we were he we were living in South Florida and he um took I think it's called Wing Chong there was a uh karate is that is it a karate Wing CH yeah it's a martial art that I believe Bruce Lee really made made popular yeah he started taking this there was a little place down the street from where my parents lived he wasn't driving yet and so I had to be convenient for me to be able to drop him off cuz I was you know at that point you know working in school and kids and he fell in love his what is the teacher called for the Sensei Sensei yes Sensei his Sensei became actually like one of his best friends and I I feel bad right now to this day that I don't think he ever knew Rob pass even now oh wow yeah he was a young guy too Rob was like probably 14 15 he was probably 23 so he was like an older brother and then from then on oh my gosh he want to be Bruce Lee da da da so around that time was when he wrote the letter to the temple in China or Japan or somewhere that if he when he graduated could he join and he was very upset when they told him no you could not wow he was devastated wait did they give a justification I don't know if it's I think for those like for those temples I don't know if it's like you have to almost be like born into it or um something I'm not too sure but like they like send you like a rejection letter I'm assuming so maybe like our email at this time I'm assuming it was but um he was devastated and then of course my husband's was active duty and he decided he was going to oh no he was thinking about the military but at then 911 happened and then we were still in South Florida when with 9/11 and of course you know all the kids it seems all the Rangers especially that I met parents and stuff have fallen their children's story were probably the same your mother told me your story was kind of the same 911 I'm going to Revenge our country and but Rob wasn't just going to be a ranger he decided he was going to do all his research he was so he went and did his research on a ranger he did his research on the PJs for the Air Force he did his research on the Navy and I guess that's the Marines right Navy Marines what is their special yeah back back during that time the Marine Corps did not have marso Okay um they had Force reconnaissance and it was not a program that you could come straight from the streets into you needed to serve in the regular Marine Corps first before you went Force reconnaissance so there were really only Army Air Force and Navy options for straight in okay so that's he did all his research and he's and then he decided I really want to be a ranger he goes That's I that's my fit so he did not sign my husband at the time was in recruiting and he did not go sign a contract until it was said that's what he was signing he would go to Fort Benning and stay there until he was done but finally he got that contract and he trained it was crazy how he trained I mean here you got this 18-year-old kid doing dual enrollment for high school at Satellite and being you know starting basic training he would put his little brother in his backpack he would find logs on the beach cuz we lived at Patrick Air Force Base and our house was the backyard was the ocean nice so no my husband would not say that was nice no his car is Rusted and it was a nightmare for him yeah interesting yeah so but he just trained and my husband goes I don't know why you're training so hard because basic you're going to be miserable yes he was he said called I think one time and said oh my God I'm getting fat here this is horrible you know and my husband goes oh but when rip which is now rasp starts it'll be different and it was for him massively yeah yeah so this was 2004 he graduated High School yes in 2004 and then went right in he but he was in the debt program yeah he joined the I want to say the fall before nice before school started she always knew when he graduated and he could have done anything he was so smart he could have he got College letters all the time to come there you know different schools I go why don't you go in Military College you know why do you feel you got to go right in I'm tired of school mom I right now I I just want to want to go serve our country they needed me I'm like okay yeah I understand that yeah yeah so basic training Airborne I think he probably went to Airborne in November because I was a class ahead of him and so you're right cuz he I have a picture hanging in my hallway and it has his graduation for basic training and it's October 24th I'm almost what 22 of course you know exactly the number so OCT all the time it's it's yeah it's a handsome picture yeah so he would have graduated basic October 22nd then Airborne School in November and then I was in rip in December so he came home for Christmas after graduating Airborne probably did he come home no he came home for Thanksgiving okay nice and he surprised me it was amazing we lived on the Air Force Base it was a one-story house and it was early in the morning and I was I don't know it was a day the kids had school maybe cuz he was in kindergarten at the time and so I don't know if I was brushing my teeth but I heard something I thought it was a robber in the house and we live on a a base you have to have a you know to be able to get in I go what the [ __ ] I'm like oh my God there's someone in the house and I open and he's standing there all I ran I can see it him oh my God I can see it right now I ran down the hallway where what are you doing here yeah yeah that was on Patrick yeah you just don't remember you were too little well I remember like it's funny because I thought he had come home did he sneak in the house yeah yeah cuz I always thought so like on Patrick they do like trainings and stuff and they'll drop the guys they'll do this training where they're they jump and parachute into the water of PJ they TR the bay I thought that's how he like came home to visit for the longest time until I like realized that like that like he obviously like didn't do any of that but like cuz he snuck in the house so I was thinking he like did some crazy like Rondevu sneak like jump from the parachute off the plane thought that thought it for like a long long time until I got older and like understood like that that training has nothing to do with him at all but that's funny yeah how they [Music] get um so then he went to rip in January which sounds brutal well and what's a good part is this is two hurricanes came back to back at this time I don't I could have done the research before I came here but if I knew I was going to tell you the story so we actually had to leave because of hurricane so we actually were able to go to two graduations back to back we didn't go to the one Airborne but we got to go to the basic and then the ranger because hurricanes brought us to leave and I shouldn't say this but the government paid the us to go CU we had to go you know Georgia was not that far from where we were and we had to leave the coast no that's awesome so you got to go to rip graduation we went to um basic and yeah and rip it was amazing watched him Dawn his tambouret for the first time I actually got to pen on it's actually a picture on his headstone wow of me I got to pin his uh his scroll his scroll yeah that's right that's yeah that's a big deal it was huge yeah and then he made his way to First ranger battalion in February well he wasn't going to first ranger battalion he had met a guy and I can't believe I'm not going to remember his name oh my goodness that's so horrible of me but he he became really close friends with this guy when B in Ranger school so he was going to go to second with him cuz he was going to Second they were really close and then he called me up and said I've decided to pick first he goes I can't be that far from you guys and I was so happy I was like oh God because I knew I would never see him so yeah he got first nice so makes his way to Savannah February and that's where I met Rob I was in the January uh group of arrivals to First ranger battalion so I'd been there for like four weeks and Rob's class shows up and we talked about the funny rivalry between classes and what stood out to me after meeting rob you know immediately was that he was just more focused on your character and who you were than what rip class you were part of and so he kind of bridged the gap between myself and a couple of my buddies and his rip class and then we all kind of started hanging out together and Rob was my first roommate we shared a bed we we had one bed in the room and he slept under it and then I slept under it you know we'd kind of rotate until our platoon who were forward deployed returned from Afghanistan in March actually it was like April 1st time frame and then we were assigned to separate platoon he went to one Bravo and I stayed in two Bravo cuz they had all of us up on the second floor in two Bravo all the new guys waiting for our angry [ __ ] platoon to come back and destroy us until we went and got our Ranger tabs but yeah and then Rob went down to First platoon which was I told you the super chill platoon third platoon was on the other end of the spectrum straight up maniacs and then second second platoon my platoon was kind of right in the middle and to be honest everyone wanted to be in first platoon I think most guys wanted to be in first why because there was a Brotherhood in first platoon that was stronger than second and third third platoon everyone hated one another and I don't know maybe it was like Stockholm syndrome where they were abused and they they thought that it was okay um my platoon it was felt like a bunch of indifferent dudes you know they're just like yeah we're here to work but first platoon was super tight I was envious of first platoon and had always felt like I would have enjoyed first platoon more um they were certainly the tightest from my perspective so it was a good place for Rob but you don't get to choose no hell no yeah I'll take that one please no no and I remember all of us thinking like I just hope I don't get third platoon oh okay and you knew the names of the dudes in the platoon that you wanted to avoid we were blessed because when Rob went to anah we actually this how everything works I believe everything happens for a reason we got orders to go there not to to Savannah in the city not even you know so that was just like oh my gosh I'm going to be there for Rob's First deployment like to be able to you know let's help pack his bags and take him the airport and wave him you know that's my mother way of thinking you know he's my kid but the first year there he stressed me out oh my God he lost his wallet he needed tires on his truck I mean like oh my gosh he's in the military he's got a job and I'm still here taking care of him I have two other kids but it was so fabulous cuz when they came home from their first deployment we I we had a barbecue and invited him all over the ones he was really close to and I knew Rob had changed to a little bit you know he was a little different and I remember sitting outside everybody had left and my husband and went to bed and I remember there sitting there and I said you just seem off he said Mom it was it was tough my first deployment he said I didn't know some of the things I had to do and I was like you know he told me a little bit I I don't want to share it I guess because I don't you know really remember it I don't want to say the wrong thing with that I may be able to jog your memory because that was we were on the same deployment and we were 30 mil away from each other I think it was just a eyeopener maybe wasn't expecting what happened he had seen some stuff I think that like he it messed him up a little bit like it was not a lot cuz it was just the first deployment cuz every deployment I saw all different I think just over there like in terms of like I think for him he thought like like an Insurgent has this type of look and it's not always like that like uh you know I think at the end like you know once things happen it's like three guys I'll tell you what he told me three guys were coming they had camels and one was young like little younger and they kept telling the stops you know and they didn't they wouldn't stop and of course they were saying in their language and they killed them they had to they were going to kill them and he goes all I thought was that could been my little brother you know he he was young and I think that affected him like I'm you know it's his first time going to war and I'm going over there and I got I didn't I you know I know he knew what war was you know it' been the training but I guess it just when he came back and then saw us I think it just started affecting you know a little bit and then a little bit more every every deployment I saw I saw it chipping away at him every some historical context around that time so we were slated to deploy and do a 90 to 120 day rotation at the end of 05 well this is when jck was heavily focused on finding and killings Z Co okay so third ranger battalion was in country in Iraq at the time and we had just gotten back from jrtc as a as as a company and the company Commander pulled us all in and said hey good news they want us there early we're leaving in two weeks everyone's starting leave today go see your families and this was was late July yeah and we left in August um actually we left at the end of July and it was super kinetic meaning we were we were heavily engaged with the Enemy and Rob's platoon went to ratti mhm and I was in Baghdad and a year with actually about 6 months after his platoon left Raad was the Battle of ratti so ratti was a very dangerous place um and yeah we were all looking for Zara and actually Zara was killed in ' 06 I mean we got close all of us were we were all getting close um but pretty historical time because this was known as The jck Surge so they surged a bunch of Special Operations forces to kill Zara and then in ' 07 was the conventional Army surge into Iraq back so as soft typically do at the tip of the spear we preceded the Army's surge that was an eyeopener for all of us new guys to step into Iraq in its in its peak right it's so heavy so I think yeah I think that what you're saying I mean he didn't tell me a lot of it but I just know that he was you know not upset of not but him and I are sitting out there and he wasn't old enough to drink but because he wasn't driving I didn't you know he was drinking it was our home you know but I feel like if you join the military you should be able to drink alcohol you know you're putting your life on the line but it you know he was CH you know I think he like you said was an eye opener was busy and it affected I think like just like like being over there like you see guys like stepping onto his chest and putting him in the head right like that's like that's not how you think of like killing people and stuff like that right so I think that's more of I think he had I mean how does that how does that not change you if you're there seeing that kind of stuff right it does affect you but I think he price a war I could see why he looked different when you saw him again he did and you know he was only at this time 19 and you're you're you know like I told you it seems like the ones that are in Special Operations they do and see so much more than regular army that it affects them it it you see it how can I just saw them one deployment and then you know yeah I mean Ranger regiment and Ranger regiment at war is a true baptism by fire no doubt it's it's a wild place so you saw that change yeah and then that was his first of six the so we left Savannah and went to Lexington and so funny cuz when he was in Savannah after he had a little girlfriend he had met she was adorable they could have been twins she was the female look of him dark hair I you know it's just I used to say oh you guys look like siblings but he this is a cute story when he came back from deployment he felt like he owed her something I think he did love her but he's only 19 what do you know of Love At 19 but so he says I'm going to get engaged I'm like okay so we I call my mother and I tell my mother my mother goes oh I want to give him my engagement ring to give to his girlfriend her engagement ring I'm like okay so they come up to Savannah they lived in I don't know if they had moved to okalo yet I think they were still in South Florida not was it um it would have been like 2010 yeah ji papal 07 oh okay so he knows more than me but anyway so they come up and we have a a engagement party and it was really nice the parents loved him they thought they had two daughters they didn't have a son they thought he was like this the perfect you know new son-in-law then he um comes I worked at Chili's outside of Hunter I know what a mistake that was there's no out that I crossed your path at some point he'd bringing all his young friends and they'd all want me oh miss Holland could you serve you know they thought I was going to serve them I knew none of them were old enough I was a bartender there too and I was like no I'm not serving you you want me to get fired go to jail ah but they were so I'm still friends with some of them they were so adorable so anyways I'm opening up the restaurant the next day and I I see him at the door banging on the door like what the [ __ ] what do you what's you know what are you what are you doing it's like 10:00 so I let him in he looks upset and I goes sit down what's wrong Rob he goes I don't want to get married I said what do you mean you don't want to get married he's like I I like her but I I go then why did you get engaged this was the date the next day oh I'm like rob you better get that ring back that was your grandmother's oops Yeah Lord did he get the ring back yes he did oh okay good she was sweet she was yeah she knew it was she was devastated her name was Ally she was H she was so devastated she came to his funeral I never saw her there but I heard she was there I would have liked to have seen her she was so sweet yeah so did you guys move before his second rotation yeah we went from there to Lexington Kentucky and then um he came to visit a few times gotcha and it was awesome you know like he Rob was one of those people every time he had leave he would go see as many people he didn't go like to the beach well we most of my family a lot of them lived on the beach but he would go always see my parents and always see us and then you know some ants sometimes if they were in the area he was just one of those people that family was family was important it was the soul I mean I remember when Rob went to join the military he I remember him saying cuz Rob and I I should have said this before but we grew up together I had him young then I got married had his brother Jacob but Rob was always like I wasn't married just a couple years and that didn't work out and he was always like the F you know he wanted to be the dad he was the father figure The Protector he would try to pick out my clothes if I had like a school meeting to go to one time he had this maternity dress laying on the bed I'm like he goes you got to wear this to the school thing to see my teacher I go wear that I'm not wearing that he goes yes yes you got cuz I worked at Hooters at the time so you know he was like Mom you need to wear you need to cover your skin like I'm what what do you think the teacher's going to think I'm a prostitute or something what is wrong with you he was just you know and he was funny he rob did some crazy stuff but he also I feel like at times he knew when you should be serious and proper which to me showed a really rounded kid at like 8 years old like you know wow I think he was just trying to protect his family like just from other people like making assumptions or um like whoever entered the family like even my dad you can probably tell that story too you know when my dad like uh him and my mom were like getting more serious and getting married and everything like that he sat on and had like an interview with him like what kind of husband are you and to be and D you know and my husband loved him loved him yeah just as much as I loved him and he loved he loved your dad he did yeah thought he was a good man I don't want to cry I know he just makes I sometimes like I pretend he's not gone I know it's crazy but then I want to come to something like this that makes me remember then you know I got to go through it again okay I'm okay it's bittersweet I get it it is yeah better to have than never had of course so he he let will enter the family huh yes and my H he hired him well my husband had previous children so you know my mom was always like oh he's going to go back to his ex-wife and da d da so Rob would like be like what what you know so but yeah and he loved him and I not that not where his obsession cuz my husband has kind of like in the past when Rob first died he used to feel like maybe he rob wouldn't have joined the military if it wasn't like he didn't know me because we lived in South Florida and I never knew I thought you only joined the military because you had nothing else to do you're were poor something that's common well because in a big city like Miami you don't see recruiters and stuff I never saw a recruit recruiter when I was in school like what the hell's a recruiter you know so you didn't see that but I was like and then when I met my husband I was like he's like I'm in the military I'm like oh and my dad was a recruiter so well he wasn't in recruiting when we first met he went recr when like he was yeah when Rob got like into the military my dad was a recruiter so yeah so my husband felt like oh my God if I wouldn't have you know but no that's not true yeah the path was set it's set from our birth yeah I believe that with my whole heart we have a date we just don't know it yeah Rob lived his fully and he was just like my brother like you couldn't have stopped him if you wanted to and once he made his mind up he was going to do it I tried to I tried I I said why don't you go to college first and then cuz I always you know we lived I learned a lot about the military by then and I was like be an officer they make more money have nicer houses you know hello it's like I don't want to be an officer what are you crazy I want to do the job Mom exactly great choice yes that pitch worked on me I guess yeah yeah cuz I think like I wanted to do or be what Rob was and I think we talked about this the other night like growing up in the house of my parents uh it's almost like a like a memorial right almost like everything is Rob you know and you have you have even the helmet that Rob died in like in the house right and like you're seeing all these things and you have this picture that's as big as this wall like half this wall of just him like in his uniform with the tambouret so it's it's almost like a religion like a like a like right of passage you kind of feel like like he was this and and to only to uh earn the respect of your family and like those around you like if you don't do that then you're always subpar or below average of of that right so you know she didn't want me to go out of high school but if if I could have I would have like gone right out of high school right into it because that was I lived like from birth like in a military household like uh you know it was just that was normal like that wasn't like anything that I felt was like out of the normal or or I wouldn't have wanted to do but um you know she's I I love football too and I think that helped me go to college like I really wanted to play college football right out of college um and and I did I mean I got a scholarship and things like that you know obviously my freshman year and all that stuff didn't really work out that well is what I wanted to and and then I had another decision after I like flunked out my freshman year of joining the Army or continuing college and you know I think my parents like always really wanted me to get a college degree and I'll never forget after Rob like was had I think he had already been serving for a few years he he had told me he never wanted me uh to actually join army at all the night that Rob and I had after the first deployment that night we had a really I mean it was deep it was like since he had joined the military it was our first time we really got to really talk about reality and he we were sitting like you and I this distance and he said mom if something ever happens to me I want my brothers to go to college you take the money that they I that you get but I'm thinking what money am I getting you know don't talk like that but he says you know please make don't let you know I want Logan to go to college that was his only regret I think not finishing his degree I don't know why I mean I wish I did why that was so important but it was something he felt so but yeah and I think that like it's not just me I I think also like Nicholas has that like also like carries that too I think he's like like he even told me like the other night like while we were here and I think that's so cool like about bringing this out here is you almost talk about these things more like having these conversations like maybe you never had with anybody right um that when they had I guess it was the wake uh he had literally like told Rob that he was and you know Nicholas he has this like super [ __ ] up mind like almost he like like had touched his coffin and said he was going to get revenge for what these people had did like had done to our family and but you at first when they pass away you do have this like revenge like kind of not like a gang but it's almost like like you killed one of my family members like we'll go over there and like and that was like kind of like his and I mindset um and then obviously like as you grow older and things like that uh I think for him to like his mom play such a huge role in his decision making so but our family is so wired like without the support of our family like we could never go and do something right so I wasn't going to like or H he wasn't going to defy his mom you know and go and do a job or something where like you didn't have that full family support and I think that was why we made the decisions we did was cuz our family was at that time just so against like sending another kid off to war or to join the military or I refuse I would said anything to him from the time he was 11 years old till probably a couple years ago I would do anything for him not to join the military I mean my husband is given 36 years I gave a child I couldn't give I couldn't give another one I mean we don't know you know right now we're not really but who knows in in the future and I just said Logan I I I wouldn't survive it I only survived Rob's death because of him you know Logan is I had to take care of him you know it was you know I was like or I wouldn't have survived I would have never survived Logan how do you feel about that decision now I'm getting through it I think like At first I thought I me like go I like I had a daughter and I think that like changed everything for [Music] me I think he's mad at me cuz he really wanted to join he's tried he's actually gone to recruiting stations in Rec in the past not anytime recent but and then they tell him come back you're Prime you know Prime Pickins and he didn't you know I think he wouldn't you know and I'm grateful that he's didn't of course now he has his daughter and he wouldn't want to be away from her she loves her daddy but I know he's mad at me can't it's okay it's it's not that I'm mad I think just like the experience of doing what he did I could have felt like more of what he had gone through I guess cuz when when he when he passed I was young and that's it like you don't get like those words of wisdom like from your older brother so I just thought like doing that I could have gone through what he had done and understood him more I didn't really know him you know much as I my other son Jacob and Rob are only three years apart but Jacob's he's different he's extremely gifted extremely I say on the Spectrum so he's one of those him and Rob were really close Rob was the allamerican kid everything the mo the well-rounded smart Sports just Rob did it he could do it he was just one of those people then Jacob was the shy the nerdy little you know smaller guy that and you know so smart so Rob became a protector then I think that's when he started you know with he would protect Jake at school like the kids would pick on him and Jake would I mean Rob would be like I'm going to kill those kids or I'm going to do this or you know like always from the time one time when Jake was in first I meant Rob was in third grade yes I'm going to pick them up and they're walking they already started walking I was running late I wasn't so good with time back then and I see Rob's mad and I'm like why what's you know why are you so mad he's like I'm going to go to that house and kill the kid that lives there I'm like what are you talking about he goes he was just throwing rocks at Jake and Jake's letting him throw rocks I go he goes I'm gonna K I go rob calm down you know I think he just so he had to protect Jake he never knew that Rob because he was little Rob went off the basic training he was in kindergarten so he only knew Rob as you know I don't know the age difference between you guys four years so but your younger brother you guys probably never lived in the same household no no that's 14 years between me and my younger brother so he was never in the house yeah so that's like so for Logan he remembers Parts with Rob but he didn't get the he didn't get to know Rob like Jake knew him or you know and they he his Jake kind of doesn't call or talk or anything no he's like super I wouldn't say like on the Spectrum well I guess he is like nowadays how they group the Spectrum like he is but he's just a really off-grid kind of guy you know he's uh Jacob like was one of those guys who one of the smartest people we ever talked to like was reading the dictionary I don't know what age like three um and he was literally like his vocabulary like he he's written a book that you can't read because every single word is like something a normal person it's like like it's it makes the English language look like a different language you need the source yeah like for every for the whole book and he's just a super Off the Grid guy has you know could have been a brain surgeon if really wanted to but you know just works as a dishwasher right like his mind is so beyond making money or some sort of income like he doesn't live in our society like he doesn't live in those societal barriers like he's he's beyond that you know which is you know I'm you have to be a certain type I guess of person now the whole communicating with like not with his family I don't know I don't even know what the reason for that is that doesn't I don't know if that correlates to he doesn't own a phone yeah he doesn't own a phone right so that helps yeah so so I mean but yeah he's just I have to call the girlfriend yeah or send her a message on Facebook so she or you know messenger and then to say can I talk to Jake and then he might call me back I mean I hope I don't die cuz he's going to miss the funeral wow yeah you're just super introverted yes yes yes yeah yeah that sounds super interesting oh you would this you think this would be oh it would have been good but I couldn't bring him it would be too over the top for me yeah cuz then I had to worry about he'd be wandering still in that apple orchard oh yeah he would like or the peaches he would like this guy doesn't drive have a driver's license like he walks on foot miles and miles to get to places he never ask for new shoes though so he'll wear the same pair of shoes until they literally like disintegrate under his feet shops shops of Goodwill everywhere like has never bought new clothes for himself like very interesting person the sweetest kindest heart you would ever know and him and Rob had the most amazing but dysfunctional relationship because Rob was this Superstar his whole life as a baby teenager whatever beautiful Jake was your average Kid da dada and but they both liked a lot of the same thing things they love movies board games stuff like that so their competition and they were three years apart was really really like strong but Rob got all the attention I think I maybe I did that to all my maybe there's something wrong with me well they you said to add on to that like they would like quote movie quotes with each other and everything like that was their thing like watching movies and like quoting the scenes like after to each other and just laughing like their asses off about it but I don't think Jake minded Rob like taking the spotlight that was just like like Jake already knew Rob as like this like being of like the head of the star of the family but so did everyone else think that I think Jake I think Jake wanted that for Rob I don't think Jake minded that now when they were small children like I don't know if that may have affected NS way before me Rob was mean to Jake I found I didn't find it when Rob stuff came back from um no or was it I don't know which time where it came from but when I got some of his stuff back I found a book in there like a journal and in the journal was from his senior year in high school my stomach's growling but his senior year in high school and um in one part I read it to Logan it says I'm now 18 I'm going to be I sh I'm an adult now I should have brought it was hysterical he goes I'm going to be better to my brothers I'm going to be you know now I'm the head I'm older you know I'm such a [ __ ] he said why am I so mean to them so yeah nice little introspective moment there looking back yeah yeah so you get to Lexington and then Rob came to vid a couple times now he was was dating a different girl and Catherine her name was and they came to visit one time mhm so he always came to visit and then right before he passed we moved to um we only been living in we were in Lexington for 3 years then we moved to Tennessee and we'd only been there we got there in July and then he died or the end of July and he died October 1st so that was but it's so weird because he wasn't going to come see me that LE he was I was going to see him Logan and I were going to fly out to Savannah when he got back cuz sometimes we did that but he had something happened with his plans he was supposed to go to Boston or something or somewhere with somebody and that got canceled and then he was going to Vegas so he decided to go see my parents my sister like people I was really close to like some good friends and then he goes you know what I'm going to come see you guys like last minute and it was on his birthday and I hadn't spent his birthday with him since he had joined the military so it was his 24th birthday and I made him this really [ __ ] up cake it was a chocolate cake with marshmallow stuff and you had to I I I never made it before was cream cheese and stuff it was called like an upside down some kind of dark chocolate and I have P there's pictures all over I'm sure you've seen it where he's sitting at a table with this cake and some candles and to this day almost 15 years later I have not ever made that and it ended up being really good I never made it again yeah I will never make that cake again it was his cake and never never never going to make it and then Logan at this time was it was summer he was out of school and all he wanted to do was Rob take him to a water park so every day I think he was there for what maybe five or six days yeah Logan go hey Rob are you going to take me to the water park well him and his girlfriend Catherine at this time had broken up I think cuz he cheated on her I'm not 100% sure but I think that's why they broke up I'm almost positive but don't quote me so anyways he I guess he was trying to win her back cuz he was getting ready to deploy you know and so he would be on the phone with her all night so he didn't want to get up and go to no water park so he would Logan come and go Robie will you take me to the water park today no buddy tomorrow the next day Rob I mean Logan sorry Logan would go to to Rob hey Rob will you take me to the water park no how about tomorrow and then he left and Logan never got to go the walk water park I mean I took him yeah it was like a Nashville Shores it was like this huge like water park the only one I think like around in Tennessee at all but I we went we went later on but he was mad though yeah I swear he comes here he's on the phone with that girl and blah blah blah and then um yeah there's rob you were mad at Rob yeah yeah it's it's weird like I remember more of him visiting in Lexington than the last time he visited like in lexingon we I feel like him and I played like rock band and we did like things and like he was H he was happy but then when in 2009 like I didn't I didn't I don't know I don't really remember him being as as I said earlier you know the more deployments the worse it like it almost like he became more closed off to us and we were never like that like he told me less and less so I feel like on this I think with maybe things had happened which I found out afterwards after he died I didn't know any of this had went on I didn't know you know so about you know he had gotten before his deployment so I don't know it must have already happened cuz what is the time limit between leave and deployment it depends but generally back during that time period it was very short you would go on leave and you'd come back for a week or two and then you're out the door so he must have already gotten in trouble and he didn't tell me so he went downtown with some friends and him and Catherine weren't together I don't think you know so that must have been the reason that they were fighting when he came to visit us and um I don't know exactly I know they went and Ed um Ed Ward told me the story and he told me the story because I basically made him tell me the story cuz when we went to get his car after he passed that's a whole another story you don't probably have enough time but I drove the car home from Georgia to my parents in Okala cuz I you know when you're in the military where do you put you know where do you put extra you know Extra Car like you know I have his car and I don't want to get rid of his car it's his car I to this day have everything he owns now even his furniture from his bedroom I still have I refuse to get rid of anything cuz I'm never going to have something he owns and that's all I have so I keep it all like some crazy person but now I have this car and I'm driving and it was a pig sty he was such a car pick oh my God like you so I'm driving and I'm following my husband in the U-Haul the U-Haul is full of all his stuff and I'm crying I don't know why anybody let me drive that car I was not in the mental state to drive it I'm I mean I'm crying hysteric it's like a hour drive and this card is up there like a but it's an attorney so I remember putting it like taking it I remember calling Ed or Ed was I don't think he was with us I don't think he no he did go with us cuz he got us into his apartment I don't know remember but anyways I remember saying to Ed why does he have this attorney like so I Googled the attorney's name you know like it's a woman I'm thinking of was he sing her or something so I Google it and just it comes up and then I ask Ed I go Ed why did Rob have the attorney like was he in TR and then I saw when I got his stuff back from Afghanistan I saw he had an appointment with this attorney so then I knew something had happened so I Ed says okay I'm going to tell you the story but he didn't want you to know I go oh my God he kept something from me I was like upset you know now why did he keep something what did he do murder someone like that's what I'm thinking in my head he goes no we were downtown Rob was drunk before deployment and he was in a pizza restaurant and some girl maed him because I guess he was being rude who knows I don't know what happened he didn't see that so when he came out he couldn't really see and the the cop was telling him it's probably like 3: in the morning and she's a female cop and he calls her some obscene word or something and she told him to calm down he shot her a bird or something something happened so they arrest him and of course he gets bailed out but he has a court date and yeah so when he passed you know the Jud I guess the courts don't know when someone dies so he had a bench horn out for him I guess so they would come at told me they would come looking for for him and they go oh he's not here or you know he and then they had to tell him that they finally I think the first sergeant or someone told him you got to we have to tell this is going on too long we got to tell him that he passed which I thought was kind of hysterical hilarious Rob would have loved it yeah they're still looking I thought it was hysterical for a story I was so upset but then it became really funny like no it's a classic Ranger move yes it really is um do you remember as he started to go deployment after deployment did you do you remember any other changes or um any other significant things that occurred along the way I just felt like he wasn't being rational like Rob was a really rational person he was not you know yeah everybody knew like I guess in Battalion the fun Rob the drinking Rob but he wasn't all he was not always like that you know he was and it feel I felt like the things he was doing over like the last year and a half were not him like you know it's just I mean before he went on this deployment I'll never forget this as long as I live this story will be in my deathbed I think he was deploying in so after he left he had already left my house went to Vegas with a bunch of the his buddies and a few of their wives then one Corey him and Corey went actually rimburg they went to Vegas together Rippy Alex Holt and the Ed blads Casey and Mike and they had a great time the best pictures at that time the quality was really good and then so I guess he had just got back so maybe they were deploying in a week and I W I had this dream never in my life have I ever dreamt this it wasn't his first deployment I woke up and I I was screaming my husband was like what's wrong and Rob died in my dream I don't know I don't remember how like in the dream when I woke up I just remember him being dead so I called him and I said Rob I don't feel good about this deployment I really don't I I I can't shake it like it been going on a couple days he goes mom don't worry you never worry like this he's like I'm your superhero I'm not going to die Mom calm down I was just so upset he had bought Catherine who he had broken you know they were broken up remember this goes to the K jws and buys her this expensive diamond engagement ring and ask her to marry him the night before his deployment or the date well he told me he bought the ring I was mad as hell like are you crazy how what you're going to you know you're getting ready to leave and you're buying this ring so he asked her to marry him she said no so I said you need to take the ring back before you leave it was like 12 $15,000 he can't afford that I said Rob take the ring back I'm not taking the ring back Mom I'm keeping it cuz when I come back I'm going to ask her again he said I said Rob how if someone breaks into your apartment you know nobody's there you guys are all deployed so we got in this huge fight and he hung up on me so my husband called him a couple hours later cuz I was like how is he going to be like that to me before he leaves I said how if something happens and I had have that dream so my husband never gets in the middle of Robin IED [ __ ] he calls him and he said Rob you cannot leave this country and not talk to your mother I will kill she we will she will kill herself kill somebody's going to die in this house you know because she won't be able to you know you'll be gone for what three and a half 4 months so he called me right before he got they left and he said Mom I took no he didn't we didn't talk about the ring he just said Mom it's okay I love you I'm going to be fine I'll see you in a couple months you and Logan can still come out here and see me yeah so last time I talk to and I can't get past it like the hugging like you when you hug somebody for the last time it's so if you knew you would hug him longer you know you say all the doovers in life and then the day they knocked on my door that's freaking I still have nightmares without that almost 15 years later how screwed up is that uh I don't think it's screwed up at all I mean for you bearing the nightmares that that part for sure I feel the Army needs to do better about that one that that part for sure is probably yeah I I I think I'm I'm speaking about you though holding grief how could you not you know I try to do I mean I try to keep it deep try to pretend well I think that sometimes that's effective but um sharing like you are now I think is super healing yeah it is um and and allowing other people to help you through that process I think that's really important and I the process never ends right I mean it's not going to I think maybe when you die sure you know but no I think when you love something or care about someone or you know I my whole life I feel like this that we're not you know you bury your parents we're supposed to they're older than us you know you bury your grandparents your parents you're not supposed to bury your children I don't care how they die people always say well your son died no it doesn't matter how you lose a child it doesn't matter how you lose them that's still your child and is it harder from newborn to whatever age I don't think so because you always wonder like the what would they have been yeah Rob was a ranger but he never got married he never had children he never got to do anything else he never owned a home he never got to go to his wedding maybe he would have got divorced but maybe I would have went to a few but you know I try to put humor in my suffering I think that's why people sometimes I go I'm just kidding you know like I that's how I get through it I make jokes I act stupid or whatever I think that's a little more wine yeah everyone has their own ways of dealing with this stuff yeah absolutely um so let's let's talk about what happened to Robin that day and so he's in Afghanistan in and there's a war Fighters episode on this that you went out and interviewed M for 2012 I think it was yeah that was made by A History Channel correct yeah and you can find on YouTube if you want to watch it yes yes uhhuh and uh it tells the whole story MH for the most part leaving out some details I'm sure um and essentially their platoon had been called down to a new location to supplement another platoon and they were going out and doing what Rangers do killer capture missions and so nighttime operation killer capture helicopter infill move to the objective get into a gunfight post gun fight post assault procedures they're working through SSC which is sensitive sight exploitation basically we're looking through people's pockets and searching the home and seeing what information we can find that may be analyzed into intelligence later talking to detainees detaining them and I think the mission was over they were getting it getting the sun was coming up and they were going over to get on the helicopter if I'm correct they had some C some not casualties yet but they had some injuries and yeah yeah there were casualties already from the gunfight earlier yeah from the fight earlier no killed in action nobody nobody had passed yet and then um this is what story I heard there was a Hut on the other side of the water and Rob they I don't know if I'm correct but I think Rob took Ed's team I'm not sure what happened but Ed was doing something and Rob said Ed I'll go with your team cuz that's Corey and Rob weren't on the same team I don't I'm almost positive not and then the guy that I don't know if you know who it was that did did the bomb at that time he was at he did the interview with me for Warf Fighters yeah and he was so sorry and I said why are you so sorry what's you know I didn't understand at this time and he said I swept that bridge and I said okay he with the dog and but Robin then went over to the other side and he Ste on the brid on the bomb I can't even imagine what he went through I mean I know he died instantly I know that I guess edl told me he died instantly but I knew I knew from but and then Corey was really bad injured and a couple the other guys um the sniper guy too the what's his name that lost oh my God my Tor Honda Tor lost his leg I still keep up with you know all of these people and then one guy got really bad sh Shar sh what is it Shel in his head yeah and um I remember seeing him at robs Memorial and I'm going I wasn't that good-look anyways I'm telling me that yeah yeah yeah from I think like how the they they portray it like from even the start of like the mission like it seemed like it wasn't going well and I think as like they were just running out of time like from the from the beginning and I and I don't know like towards the end like you know when the sun's coming up like you need to like hurry up and get out of there so I just don't know like what had happened in those last few moments you know if it was like kind of like a like a rush of procedures or kind of thing cuz like you know they're obviously like in a very uh I don't remember like the district or anything but at that at that time I believe like that where they were fighting at was one of the deadli the deadlier places in Afghanistan at the time so they were just trying to I think have as much protection from the darkness as they they could and then obviously when everything went down I think that was probably a [ __ ] show in itself but it was never like a successful mission in my I don't think in my opinion Mike that worked for four Fighters um War yeah Bomb Garden he told me he said it was a [ __ ] show from the GetGo from the time they landed he said and we just wanted to get what we had already we just wanted to get on the helicopter was waiting for us we just wanted and then it all then that all happened I remember Mike telling me cuz I remember we did a memorial run right after in April cuz I had started running mentally and I remember telling him I think it's a mother or father I don't you know I'm speaking for me but you don't want your child to die alone I I just kept couldn't get past him being by himself and me not being with him and not getting you know Mike told me he said he held him he was already dead I'm sure we know how he died but I just can't get past it like I you don't want your baby to you know and then doggy and Har died in the end of August and I saw that you know I saw it and I remember thought thinking it was Rob cuz I had that dream you know I didn't know so I was friends with a few cuz Rob wasn't married maybe it's just such a tart Twisted relationship but I stayed you know connected with some of the wives be on his because you know I'm the mother I got to know what's going on and I know you know my husband's military I know about war and I remember sending Heather Holt a message on whatever social media platform at that time and her telling me wheny it's not rob you will know if it's Rob and I after that understood what she meant by that because I was his point of contact so which I never thought about it you know I never thought cuz he wasn't married like I was the one you know but yeah you know that started it almost like Davis and then you know Rob reenlisted because of Davis he was getting out he not he didn't want to get out of the military he just wanted to get closer to home and he wanted to go back to school and he loved the Rangers he just was like I feel like I've done what I'm supposed to do here and then Davis died on he was on the mission he said Mom that was a b that in his head was probably like the Teeter point because David Davis went they went in the room Davis he goes mom we always go the same direction David went right I went left that's just how you know and Davis got killed and he was right there you know and the first it was just after that it just seemed like oh my God and then after Rob I used to with Cory you know Corey came back so many times you know I don't know if like four times or something they revived him but I hate to say this but I used to wish Rob was Cory I used to say why couldn't he just I could go lay in the bed with him and hug him and I'll take care of him for the rest of his life I used to think for the longest time until my dad he said to me Wendy Rob was too vain Rob would have been miserable Rob wouldn't have not you know he would if Rob couldn't be all who he is and Cory's doing fabulous I mean the family they're amazing people Corey's always sending me these little messages sometimes but sometimes you know they're a little crazy but yeah yeah but I used to you know so I don't yeah so yeah so Rob crosses the bridge steps on the IED immediately dies M that's what they said t Honda amputation Corey remsburg was blown over into a ditch face down in water M and there were several other casualties as well Rob was the only Kia that day and I told you first platoon was super tight and they were they really were brothers and they all treated each other really well and that was that was a massive blow to that platoon and during that time that's when IEDs in Afghanistan started to really get bad and not only were they everywhere but the techniques being employed by the Taliban were adjusting faster to our approaches than we were to theirs right so here's an example they create a form of IED that is detectable with a metal detector so we use a metal Det detector and now we're finding it easy switch for them hey we're going to go to something with a low metal or no metal signature so now we identify this technique and unfortunately guys lose their lives in the process of it and then we say well now to detect that we're going to just use ground penetrating radar so now we're just looking for anomalies in the ground not metal so now we're carrying this thing around and they realize that and they go back to metal or they right and so I can understand the guilt that that EOD Tech carries sometimes you just can't you just can't win and so I believe our path I mean it I it's I mean it's something that I have always believed in so with Rob's death I was able to use that this was his path you know I was never mad at the Army I was never mad at God I you know I'm just sad I'm just hurt you know because he was my child no different than him or for your mothers you know your mother is the same thing those are her babies you know you're always your babies I don't care how old they get I get it I I I really do I think about um Jack because Jack wants to be a Green Beret and um I'm terrified of him being a Green Beret and I think about it often and he's still little he is I know get him to talk out of it um but I think about what I would miss if I didn't have him and for you I would ask like I think I know all the things that you would miss cuz you've said all the things that you love about Rob but I I wonder what you would say if he were here if you could if you could just say something to him one more time Rob knew I loved him I think Rob was here right now I would be like I'm not mad I'm not cuz I think Rob would think I was mad that he died kind of like how you feel sometimes with not joining the military I you know what when Rob died it was more I felt like he wasn't happy at that point in his life I have a big issue there's a saying you're only as happy as you're s child it makes so much sense cuz if you have 10 kids and one sad you're still sad cuz you're their mother you're the mother and I felt like the last couple months some choices maybe he made I didn't know a lot of them you know but he wasn't happy I felt like this deployment he it was already off when before he left and I felt like he died sad when I got the when after I got the notification Colonel Menace called me him and the sergeant major of the Battalion it was only a couple hours maybe an hour later they call I found it so odd these people are calling me from overseas to give their condolences I don't know why I just was like you know so messed up in the head I don't want to talk to anyone I just wanted to crawl in a ball and I remember not talking I remember saying I need to talk to Alex Holt I didn't even really know Alex Holt Rob had talked about him he just gone on vacation with him but when I talked to Rob L on the phone when he called from overseas he said yeah I'm shareing a room with Alex you know or in area he said we put a line of tape down the middle and he's not allowed to cross it so when Rob died I told Colonel Menace I said I need to talk to Alex Holt and he goes excuse me I said I need to talk to Alex Holt um okay hold on they go get him bring him to me and now he's like he'll tell you this story he's like I don't know what to say you know like he's like why is Rob Sanchez's mom want to talk to me because and this is what I asked him was Rob okay I need to know how he felt before he went on that mission I need to know he was mentally okay that he died okay and I know that sounds so weird but I just needed to know that he didn't go and he was like oh you know sad you know how some days you're just sad he said no it was fine we were listening to music so I was like it like it made me I still don't know if I believe him but no that makes sense I I mean no matter what's going on in your life before a mission everything becomes okay the music comes on the boys start throwing their kid on checking their shotguns charges rifle's good pistol's good nods are good fresh batteries and everything that's the target here's where we're going check check check check all right let's go nothing everything's good you have to make everything okay because you know this might be your last time and that's that's I think all of us every time I I never saw a dude still kind of dragging himself onto the aircraft or the truck because we know like hey dude we all go out with our head up that's what he said and it made me feel somewhat better like just to know that Rob wasn't in this sadness that his girlfriend broke up with him and da da da you know cuz again you know now he's 24 and was separ you know mentally you know I guess growing up but yeah that was a big thing for me for a long time yeah I get that I I completely understand what you're saying he died doing what he loved yeah like youever saying he's still in the war yeah it's where they want to be yeah um so notification oh God was horrible I went to the I would take him the school or after he went to school I think he was right in the school bus at this time what grade were you in fourth fifth grade I always went to the gym I went and you know some days I'm running late of course I'm horrible mother sometimes but I went to the gym and I started talking and I do like to talk I think you have realized that so I was running a little late I had to run into t Target so I got what I needed groceries and I came home I pulled up our our driveway was really at an incline which when we bought the house we didn't think about that when win winter came but anyways I pull up in the driveway and Logan never comes out to help me with groceries ever you know ever so he comes down the stairs you know he says mom and our neighbors were having their roof done some guys just knocked at the door I go what those I don't want to say what I was going to say but those weirdos over there you know doing the roof he goes no now I have groceries on my hand he's talking I'm just and he goes no and he was really kind of serious you know he's serious kid but he was off and I said well what people he goes my husband had just went to a board so his dress blues were hanging still in the hallway on a door knob and he said like dad's uniform in the the hallway and I thought I knew i d i knew I dropped my groceries I grab my phone and I call my husband and I'm crying and he now as I'm talking to my husband he's calling Battalion cuz you know I he's the stepdad so I was the notification team which not the military's fault you know Rob did not want anybody to know that his dad was milit his stepdad so that was you know he didn't want to be teased ever so he says now we're in the house I think and someone's ringing the doorbell and he goes Wendy you have to get the door now he's he works in Nashville we're in Hendersonville like a 30 minute drive and I I go I'm not answering the door but Jesse do you know who he was he was injured Jessy what's his last the platoon AR um he was on rear D he was Will was talking to me he goes Mr H he goes uh Will's First Sergeant First Sergeant I can't tell you until she opens the door it's against protocol you know that will did know that cuz when do you got to open the door like I'm not opening the door I I wouldn't open it I'm and I can see and there's a chaplain well I didn't see the chaplain I saw the the younger guy in his dress blues what a horrible job that is for these people my husband's now screaming at me and he's standing there we had stairwell from our entryway went up to our second and third level and he's eating SK I brought him Skittles yeah I was like in my room I gone up to my room I don't know if you told me to go up to my room but I had known like this like I already knew I knew something really was bad I was hoping Rob wasn't because he they knocked on the door I didn't tell you that part he answered it and they asked for Wendy Holland and he said oh my mom's not home so they left they go oh we'll come back I guess is that what they said yeah they basically like they were like hey but is your mom home and I'm was like No And they're like do you know when she's getting back home and I was like I think she's on her way home and they're like oh okay and they just left left and they didn't tell me to like call or anything so I was like well I'm going to call my mom like this is this is weird when I he came downstairs and he said that I said I'll never forget this I grabbed him by the shirt I grabbed you and I said I thought maybe they were looking for my husband cuz my husband's military you know and I said who did they ask for they asked for Dad or me and he goes I don't know mom I go Logan this is important did they ask for me or your dad I have to know and he goes mom they ask for you and he starts crying so then I'm calling my husband and my husband goes you have to you know I told him what's going on he's talking to Jesse Randall I think it was Yandel Yandel that's it yeah Jesse Yandel he set of twins a boy and a girl yeah and then I he goes he's talking to him he goes I can't say anything till your wife gets the door I finally open it and then I run out the back the back door they I didn't want them to tell me like if they didn't tell me it wasn't true and they they go they have to read I go I don't want to hear you're not reading anything now I'm out and the chaplain is now the Chaplin's crying and I remember coming back in trying to and sitting on the floor and a ball we were in the middle of doing hardwood floors in our house so half the entry freway was ripped up but the I think the living room was finished at this point groceries everywhere cuz I went to the store and remember laying in the ball and I said there's no way my kid could be dead I can't help can I I can't go on in life without him there's no way he's my superhero you people there's no way I said where's his dog text cuz I thought I didn't know anybody that died from movies they bring you dog tags I where's his dog tags they're like Miss Holland we don't have his dog tag now my husband's on his way home cuz now he knows what happened there's no dog tags I go then that's what started the Fabrication in my head that he's not dead I'm like okay and I remember sitting down on the floor and I don't know how weird this is or odd but the first thing I thought of was the mothers from all those children that died in Vietnam how crazy is that that's what I thought of and how their kids died and they didn't want to go to war they got drafted where I wasn't drafted and I just felt even sadder for these women that you know and how ignorant of me to not think you know you don't War you know War comes in you know Vietnam and then we have the Gulf War we didn't really lose too many I don't think and then this war and then my child and I was just so I feel sometimes so ignorant with it because I didn't care when I not that I didn't care but I wasn't aware of it you know as emotional cuz I wasn't dealing with it and the chaplain I feel bad I wish I could remember his name and send him a card cuz I he just was like he knew how his mother would felt cuz he was raised by a single mom so he just broke down and the poor E7 my husband chewed him up cuz now he's coming in the house telling me I need to prick out a casket I'm like I'm I I need a big out of casket and where am I going to bury him what the [ __ ] you mean where am I going to bury him hey in my head I'm already starting the craziness I'm not burying him cuz he's not dead and I don't know no now I got to call my mother and I got to call other people cuz no one's going to tell them right no the military's not going to call them so I was like how do I call my parents how do I call my parents and tell them that their firstborn god of the grandchildren and I was like I can't I I just shut down I couldn't do any of it I did nothing I couldn't get out of bed couldn't eat I mean that's why I don't eat when I do stuff like this because I couldn't swallow because I thought Rob's daddy can't eat so I can't eat so I didn't eat for like weeks couldn't get drunk you just stay sober because you're so mental then you start the process of where you how do you you know it's so I don't know if you did this when you get a fill out that paper about what you want if something happens to you of course you filled it out Rob was not serious about any of it he wanted to be buried in a haunted graveyard in Savannah what the [ __ ] how do you bury and then he wanted you to pay his funeral these really twisted songs he probably was a lot like me he was a lot like me but I had to decide that and I couldn't we're military we move all the time where do you bury your kid I don't want to bury him in Arlington cuz I hate DC and I'm never going to go see him I'm not going to bury him in Tennessee we're only there because of the army it's really screwed up for people that are in the military that lose children and my husband said he'll get out he goes I'll just get out one day he he couldn't cuz he did guard time first and then he went active and Rob wouldn't have want him to get out and not be able to collect full retirement and I was like no Rob wouldn't want that Rob would want you to finish so that's why I buried him in salite Beach cuz we had went he went to high school there we loved it there he's buried not too far from the beach but I became obsessed with his great and I'm always away I'm always maybe we're in another country maybe we're like now we're in El Paso you know we're so far away it's just then but how do you cremate your child I couldn't I couldn't do it I'm not no so it was a lot of decisions you have to make really fast and granted the Rangers were fabulous they sent you know and they did everything whatever I needed done it was oh my God they made everything so much easier those guys they did I asked him to do some twisted stuff like took him to the cemetery and asked him to lay they laid around the you know ground but in my defense I still didn't think Rob was dead you know I I thought this was not cuz I didn't have those dog tags I was obsessed with where the dog Texs I thought he had went Secret Squirrel and he was on some Mission and they took him away somewhere and in the future I'll hear from him but I'm still waiting it's 15 years so I guess it's not true either I know you're interviewing a lunatic no no it's a grieving mom um why' you make him lay down on the grave cuz I'm twisted I felt like this cemetery is beautiful but there's some areas of plots places they were showing me didn't seem like it would be comfortable for Rob mhm so that's all I thought about I thought about everything focused on what would be the best for Rob I think that and they did Ed laid sideways one time cuz they were trying to sell me this plot you know or get they G actually gave me the plot they didn't make me pay for it because he was military but it was like sideways laying on like on a hill and I said no we're not doing that head but I don't know why I did the things I did I don't know I think I lost it I literally think I was sort of don't you think I was really nutty yeah I mean I I think from that day on like it was you just like became like an obsession about like the grave and everything like that I mean when he first died like when they answered the door and everything I didn't really like interject when you were talking but like the scream was like the worst horrible scream you would ever imagine someone hearing and like that always like seared into my brain um I remember like the Skittles the sour skittles I had dropped them in my room but and then I went down there next to her and I think from there on it's just like and then um I know the grave was a huge thing though just cuz we couldn't visit all the time and go there and just the UPC creep of the Grave like that's been thing for years now just like making sure making sure it doesn't like uh like oxidize or turn or anything like that so the one Ed EDG yeah like the people who cut the grass they like nicked a corner and that was like a thing where we had to get it replaced and you know every time we go out there we brush it and clean clean it and it's the nicest you know grave out there oh people stop strangers they say it's the most beautiful I always have it complete my sister takes care of it for me she lives like 2 hours away and she makes sure that she does an inch and a half she digs it all around so they don't Nick his headstone cuz I have it's all pictures I don't know if you've seen it but it's all pictures of the whole time he was in the military so and I keep it I have it re now 15 years almost it's been refinished twice I'm obsessed with it I don't cuz that's all I have so I and I and I live so far makes it hard on me every time I go on vacation what guess where I go if my husband you know sometimes we we don't even go I mean cuz my parents do live near there so but I go Rob's grade that's vacation well The Grieving mind is going to come up with any solution to try and make some kind of sense out of what you're experiencing and it's it is something that is in comprehensible so like don't feel like you're crazy for these things it's just it is a process that you have to go through I don't know if I'm ever going to when I guess healing doesn't we have no time but I think it's because I'm the kind of person I am anyways I'm I obsess over stuff so maybe that's with him I mean when Rob died I became such a helicopter mother with him I didn't even let him spend the night out till you grow in high school no I mean even even in high school like always texting always like hey where you at what are you doing like crazy yeah just constantly if he was not home exactly when he was supposed to be in the door I started where are you where are you you need to get home cuz I the thought of losing another child like here at when we went to D-Day here and I think about the Bedford what happened with that with the mother and isn't that the reason they changed the law am I correct or is they are they not the ones that I don't know if that rule was changed because of um it was changed cuz a mother had lost all of her all of her children they always have to leave one to carry on the name yeah but I don't know I wouldn't you don't know I became every you know they say helicopter mom I became became hover crafter Mom I just became like at his schools I just volunteered all the time I was just constantly if he got sick like when he was in college he got the flu I flew home from Japan and got him that's how nutty I am because I thought nothing can happen I won't survive cuz he's the only reason I did survive because I didn't want to live there was times dark times that in my head that I just I even having him I thought about not being here cuz I'm I could see Rob my husband would not feed the dog so I would get out of bed we had a puppy at the time Samson and my husband go you have to get up and feed the dog and then I started realizing it was affecting him really bad because I had made dinner and I just cried all the time and I heard him tell his dad I don't know why Mom doesn't just go away somewhere she's so sad all the time and it was affecting him and once I I was in the hallway he didn't know I heard him at the time and I said from that moment on I'm not going to cry in Fr front of him I'll cry when he goes to school I'll cry you know but not when he's here because I felt like I was damaging him emotionally it's not his fault that his mother's so sad you know it's not his fault his brother died at War so that helped me you know like when I decided that and what do you remember from that time how how I mean is she is what she's saying resonating with you did you did you feel that way do you look back on it the same I I don't really like I I remember her being sad all the time but it became like the new normal like like with my age at that time like I was 11 so like going through I guess like through puberty and like we had just moved there too so I was trying to like make friends and like uh hang out with kids and things like that and I remember I was gone for from school when he first died for so long and I came back and they had the principal going there someone told me this I guess from my friends they had the principal like go in there and like tell the kids like hey like don't treat them any differently but I think like you like like everything just changes like for you as a kid and but yeah I remember my mom being sad like all the time and you know as that's like kind of when the little like Memorial like started like with Rob like we got his helmet we had his everything so as I grew up like the house became like a shrine almost of Rob and that was from 11 years old like on and then now it's still a shrine now it's it's still a shrine but like Rob's been go gone longer now than I knew him like when I was alive you know cuz I was only 11 so I only had 11 years with him now he's been gone for 15 so it's almost like I never thought of that I've not that's first time I've thought of that what you just said so now it's like him being gone is is almost like a and with the memorial and everything like that like that like this is like that's this is what it is you know like I don't have like I have some of the memories and things we grew up with but but Rob being passed away is like that's almost rob you know like that that Shrine and that Memorial and and my mom like being the way she was too like that's almost like my mom like I don't really remember my mom like ever before like what my mom was like you know like I don't remember like the happy like not car like I feel like my mom before my brother passed away was completely like sense of humor like a very upbeat person and then after like I don't really remember my mom before that like my mom this is has my how my mom's always been and then also like this is how my brother's almost always been you know so like growing up through it like it's it's not like there was like this drastic change because I was my mind was growing changing so much and I was so focused on like it's such a weird thing when someone passes away like when you're like going through like bodily changes and like mental changes and like you don't even know like or comprehend like what death is like at 11 years old like you don't know like and then like she's saying stuff like she doesn't really think he's dead like that was real like she said that you know and she tells me that and like I'm I start thinking he's not dead you know and and you don't even know what to think and it's it's like as time goes on like you like the older I got it like I would go like every Memorial and every like the October 1st like the day he died like I would go and like you're almost like processing it like as the years go go on like you don't just deal with like him passing away like right then on that day like those next few months like and then you kind of just live your life like for me I feel like sometimes it's harder now like going and looking at those kind of videos vers when I was 11 cuz now I know what death is now I know what dying is at that time I felt like it was probably easier for me cuz I didn't know I didn't know what that was you know I mean obviously he wasn't coming home but my mind couldn't even wrap my wrap its mind around that but now I think especially like when I was like 17 18 like really making life decisions and he wasn't there and and those like dates would come by and like I think that's when it really like I I would cry and like kind of like go go through it myself and you know like you don't really like get any help with that kind of stuff like they don't you know what I'm saying like not like I asked my parents to go talk to somebody about that or like those like resources are there you know or like even the guys he served with you know like it's not like I'm going to go reach out to those guys and talk about that like there's not really like there's not an outlet for like kids who either dad mother brother sister who pass away and die like in combat or in the military like there's not like an outlet for those kids to well I think there's an outlet it's just when you're dealing with it within your family and the mother has so much grief that she doesn't see what her child's you know you don't see I didn't see what Logan was going through because I was so engulfed in my own grief he definitely needed counseling um my husband I mean I wish he was here cuz he would give you the same a different perspective of Logan and I because he dealt with both of us and he had to be the strong one I would never let him cry because Rob was mine he was nobody else's even my family just recently the last few years I've let them have their grief because it was I don't he was mine and I kept that's was the the the way I felt and he needed he needs counseling now I mean it's out there but now he's a grown man he's got to get it himself but now he worries about his daughter almost like I worried about I worried about him so I've taught him to become this I don't know what the word is like this obsession over losing something like I can't lose anymore I couldn't survive if I lost which we all know we will survive I I will tell you you survive it you do you get through it maybe not the proper way I mean I'm living and coming here you know has helped tremendously so do you think sharing the burden of your grief has has helped you in any way 1,00% 100% yeah because by sharing you think people are caring so yeah not that I saying you're not caring but you know you yeah uh well I have a couple questions stemming off of this but you've said it a couple times that you didn't allow other people to grieve what what did that what does that mean my husband needed to grieve and I just I was so engulfed in my own grief so like my mother my well she's pass all God Rest her soul but she helped raise Rob kind of like she was as close to Rob as I'm like me I am with Leilani you know she's my grandchild firstborn so I just didn't she my mom would cry and I didn't want her it's not your cry it's my cry I don't know why I guess it's just selfishness I was a selfish person wanting all the grief just for me like you don't have the right to grieve you didn't give birth to him I it's just my way I was thinking I guess and my husband cuz he's a stepfather he W was fabulous he's a great guy but he's just military so you know he's got his grumpy ways but he we would have these discussions like he will tell you that when he try like to talk about it I wouldn't let him I didn't want him to talk about his grief why do you have grief your children are alive you know that's like he has I have two stepchildren and Logan he has Logan so I be like no no it was just not you know I don't know maybe someone can tell me you know like why I was so engulfed in it but then I guess something happened and but not within my family like someone one of Rob's friends you know what when he there's this guy that robs was friends with he wasn't in the military he was an artist robs did CrossFit with him and he painted a picture from the pictures that were taken at Rob's funeral overseas I want to say when I one day he sent me the first copy Alex Holt it I think but I remember sitting there looking at it and the grief on those guys faces I was like it's not just my grief so it wasn't even someone in my family that basically woke me up it was and and I I will tell you honestly a psychic she told me your husband needs to grieve and your son wants you to let him the woman had no clue what was going on in my life whatsoever not trying to convert anybody but she her too she said you have to let your mother I mean your husband grieve so but then I started realizing that it's not Rob's loss was everybody's loss my from his friends I mean what you guys went through Todd actually what he told me the story with Penny and that even more so just speaking to him the other day and the sadness I saw on his face mhm I was like it's sadness you everybody has you lost someone you cared about and then you guys you see it in a different perspective than me like I have not talked to Mike Ed blood since the day he told me he held Rob that day after that run and I think what did what does he go through Ed Ward and I talk still but I I know he's had a lot of issues I mean now he's a doctor so you know Rob would be so happy Alex I'm sure has it you know everybody has their own issues but I think for the first 10 years 12 years I wouldn't I was just thinking it was just mine yeah well thank you for for sharing it cuz ultimately that is our goal is we want to show you how many people care about what Rob did because it's important the uh I think there's a disconnect between your experience of losing a son and most Americans we've been at War for over 20 years and it's not on our doorstep the way World War II was World War II were were rationing [ __ ] silk yeah true and and food mhm so most of the civilian populace really hasn't had to sacrifice anything for the past 20 years for this war that we've been in so it's it's different right like we talk about Bedford we lost 19 Boys on D-Day but the community lost 19 boys and they were all here to support one another now now with the the current War it's it's not like that 19 boys from any community over the past 20 years didn't die together it's not not right and so um our community here comes together for Hero games but ultimately it it's mostly sporadic or it's been mostly sporadic over the past 20 years a loss here a loss there you know 3 4,000 service members dead but not at the same time and all over the country and so it just it doesn't feel the same so there's this disconnect between your experience and the majority of of the country and I don't know how I feel about that I it's hard to it's hard to frame the problem uh because we we do live in a very patriotic country we love our service members we love putting red white and blue on and you know and I think a lot of people don't know how to handle loss they you know hey I I'll make a Facebook post saying that I love our troops or yeah but it's only on certain days I feel like I feel like Memorial Day they're all out there Veterans Day they're all out there how does that make you feel I I I genuinely want to know how does that make you feel to know that you are the the 1% that gave everything well I didn't give it Rob gave it I'm just I mean I'm his mom I lost it um how do I feel even to this day I feel angry about it I feel like you drive around and it's just my feeling and you're $150,000 vehicle and yeah you went to college and you got this job as a doctor you earn it but if and then on Memorial Day or Veterans Day you hang a flag you want to hate the most When someone tells a veteran thank you for your service on Memorial Day that sends me over you don't know the difference of the two holidays it's just two holidays you can't tell I mean I think that and then when Rob died it'd go the like the and I'd see like the store and see stuff happen like that just I'm thinking my D my son died for this that would send me a red deepen and I had to start making myself think differently like Rob died for all of this not just for that person over there that's you know robbing a store or killing someone or smoking a crack pipe whatever the hell they're doing you know he died for our country Rob loved this country and he knew when he signed that paper he sent one of his an email I don't know who it was I wish I knew and he told him that he had a dream his friend sent this to me now his friend didn't know what I told Rob he said I don't know if he had already left I think he was already deployed that he said he woke up he had a dream he died and I think my dream was God preparing me cuz I don't think I would have been prepared you know cuz I worried I was worried during this whole deployment and it was only 6 weeks in but I think I was being prepared because I was so you know close to Rob I we had a really we grew up together we did you know it's just it's you know I was a single mom when I had him so how do how do people do better then right like civilians if you listen once this is another my pet peeve when I talk about Rob and then you know don't avoid me you know I hate that when you tell people about something and then they're like oh she's the crazy one stay away like walk I felt like when I tell people my story after that they avoided me and that bothered me why talk about him don't just ignore my kid he was a person he lived you know then that upsets me more than anything don't avoid me because you feel like I'm the sad person because he I have a child that died in War I think people feel guilty that you know like I don't know I don't know why they do it and the worse is the military Community the worst the regular military I'm not talking about special but they'll avoid you faster than anybody else else maybe they don't maybe it's like oh you know they're afraid but you I don't under I don't know we live in a military town and you Rob's death is October 1st sometimes people don't even acknowledge it yeah cuz after my brother died like my dad was still in the military for 12 15 more years after after that and I think that's kind of what you're talking about like them going to functions and things like that like they didn't want to talk about Rob like they all knew that he had passed away like they knew that this spouse's son had passed away in war and you you know like you're literally in the military and you don't even say a word or acknowledge it or say you're sorry or how are you doing or anything like that and I I mean I remember that bothering you like and your dad and my dad yeah Memorial Day comes around I just find it odd I don't understand can you make me understand I feel like it's a lack of awareness mainly well other than the specific military that that's probably more of like they're trying to avoid something uncomfortable for themselves and that's their problem right it's an awareness problem I think and people just it's not in front of them and I feel like that's that's why we are trying to be a part of the solution we want to put this stuff in front of people because it matters and we want people to have awareness of it I also think they don't bring it up this is what my husband thinks is because they don't want to bring it up with you what I you know like they don't want to like they feel like they're making it like aware or something like they don't think that we don't think about it all the time you know like oh maybe it's that maybe they don't want to remind you of something and then you feel bad and you're crying again and like yeah maybe that people are naturally hesitant to have hard conversations period right you can piss off your friend and most of the time your friends probably not even going to tell you that you did um people want to avoid those things so why would you talk to a gold star mom about losing her son that that's going to be hard and at the least least it's going to be a little inconvenient for you not you but the person right um it's much easier to be like oh hey how you doing another day another dollar yeah the weather's nice all right see you people want those a lot of people just want surface level stuff yeah they don't want to get down into the weeds it's it's rough I just got to a point I just didn't even you know like I I now I just if you wanted someone mench that talks about it you come in my house it's No Lie it looks like I have one child and he's dead and I have two other and a granddaughter and every picture and everything I mean I still have his furniture all his clothes I have a box of bdus he never wore but I can't get rid of them because I think he might have worn but my husband goes he never wore them Wendy I'm like I can't I can't get rid of them I can't I kept a pair of flip-flops that nobody could wear cuz they were bent up yeah I I don't think anyone is in a position to tell you what's right or wrong there you know if it feels right to you it is right yeah it's okay yeah yeah and you know with that like how do you think we keep someone's memory alive and how do you think we we should honor them you know how do we do that well I probably would have had a different answer 10 years ago so I probably would have said you all should have a picture of him in your yard and you know flat you know but I have come back to normality yeah and I feel like that you Hero games has done an amazing thing for the fallen family and I hope that you just keep growing and growing if anything deserve it deserves it it's this charity it's amazing what you have done what you have given my family what these people travel these guys that were on our team they were from Alexandria I was like oh that's like 4 hours away yeah he goes we did it last year we're doing it I'm like wow and then um Zach and his wife they're from Louisiana right is that where they're from I should have figured that Logan told me that I was like oh I should have figured he was from somewhere like that but you know Todd comes in and Mike and what you're building and what you have done from I can only speak from my family but you've helped I mean I don't do stuff like this because asking I'm very I know you might think I'm extremely out there you know extroverted and I am I like to talk but I to give you this what I just what I'm giving you right now I don't do this to anyone yeah and and we feel that and um we've had a buddy who flies in from La almost every year we've had someone come from Alaska one of my buddies two years ago for John Penny um he was with John when John died he flew in from a contract he was working in Africa it's amazing um this is what we collectively are building here and you're now part of it because you see nck doy came back this year that was awesome yeah and Nikki feels like she's part of this organization not just on the recipient end but on on I guess like the volunteer side Nikki wants to be part of it she's coming back next year Kristen Penny was supposed to be here this year and had a family emergency um so our goal is to just continue to expand this together and we want the gold star fam to be a larger part of it um you know already we have you guys choose the next year recipient I know it's a lot of pressure yeah well no I mean it's easy I think you know Nikki Nikki had a couple in mind and we just sent it with one and so you know we're about to go through that process with you because this is it takes a year man like we're we're about to finish this out tomorrow when you guys jump on a plane um we do an A and then you know we start talking to you hey what do you think who's next and then come January or February we'll reach out to that person do you only do people from like you're a battalion like when you serve with the ranger you'll do other battalions of all their special ops we cover all Special Operations forces so not just Army we've always done just Army because that's everybody knows well the the first year was a Green Beret second year um a ranger third year Green Beret then Ranger Ranger Ranger and that happens because Rangers typically select the next Ranger right um but it doesn't have to be but we it does have to be a special operations person because that's the community that we came from right right you know and we've been questioned on that before why do you only do Special Operations I was like well not only is that the community we come from but we honor our our fallen a little differently yeah you do so if you don't like that you can suck it start your own yeah start your exact yeah exactly seriously yeah why not we want this to be a yearly like celebration where people come together and do some healing together like you've experienced and we want it to grow as as large as possible so that we can all share in it together why don't you I just this a question why don't you do it on Memorial Day because we run this when I have leave that's it every year based on my deployment schedule I find out when I have leave and then we run the hero games but soon you will not have to do that you're right I know and so that's that's one of the things that we most look forward to is I move here in December and the next time we run Hero games we won't be building it from 600 miles away because you know I don't live here right yeah um often times I don't see my volunteers until about uh in this case about 10 days before the event and you know we've been put in work for six months so next year is going to be sick uh yeah we definitely want to make it in like an evergreen event and it would be great if we could do it at at the same time every year so that people can plan for it a little bit better 100% 100% And so yeah Memorial Day might be a good one I I also want to be careful so as to not do it on a day where it's overshadowed by other things okay CU everyone around here is you know putting their American flag on their car on Memorial Day so I I would be concerned about that but um and you know maybe there's like a maybe we create our own day and it's Hero Games day yeah you know sounds good um once a year because we want this to be huge um the more money and awareness surrounding Hero Games the better experience for you guys you know sincerely that what you have now is amazing the the just the people that come up to you and just say thank you you know and so many more people knew now know Rob's name and that's you know yeah I think they all deserve it dokey um I don't know everybody that you have done p yeah and you know I always say doy and Hario cuz they're isn't that crazy cuz they are to me a team yeah Hario is um is is on the the list as well that's who I was thinking yeah that was uh that was a consideration with Nikki because of the story the story it's a it's you know like your first you know first deployment first mission right yes first mission we actually talked about this he just was getting out of the plane am I right or something yeah we were just talking about this yesterday it's like I think the hero games especially for someone like him like you don't want to talk about like no experience no memories like no sort of you know Rob had all these friends and family and six deployments and all these memories and you talk about a guy like first mission not even supposed to be there really because he was filling in for somebody and then right off the plane when you land like you die immediately like yeah you know like there's you know who did he meet to to carry on his legacy you know cuz he did he even really get to have a legacy you know and how how sad is that right so I think for him like like in terms of being a represented for the hero games like that's that's what it's all about a different perspective yeah I love that man I I really do because good people doy and Hario die together and doy's a a squad leader with you know who is is you know reaching into Legend status at first bat and and it kind of it it almost accidentally overshadows Hario it does because yeah um but I I think that would be super cool uh for next year and and like I said you know we don't make the choice we let you do it and as long as the next family is willing I think they would be willing to come I mean I'm friends with her on social media they're good family yeah husband and wife three boys good for boys yeah she had three sons he was her youngest Rob was my oldest he was her baby yeah so I think that's who it should be good yeah well it's on air it is yeah um yeah well I'll uh I'll let you make the first engagement with them and then we'll we'll go I will reach out to her and I'll tell her everything you make it home on train and plane and boat dude and and you know what you perfectly brought me to where I was trying to Circle back to is that yeah this year about $22,000 is what it took to to do this but I want it to be $50,000 because what you just said as we plan and train it back right like I want to be able to get first class tickets for the no It it means every little item the every little thing matters and so us being able to really treat you all like VIPs like like very important people um from start to finish the only constraint is money because it's not willingness we will do anything that constraints money the I mean most have all your people drove here like Nikki told me they drove and I mean everyone yeah so we're the first people coming from a really yes far place that and I did bring my sister and nephew but I felt like Nicholas my nephew would Rob is Nicholas doesn't have any siblings so Logan and Rob and Jake are like his brothers and Rob was huge in his life like Logan said and Logan and necro close so I was like you know and I'm very grateful that you brought them we were able to bring them you know my husband was very upset he couldn't come but yeah not because of us no no no not because of you at all no no because of you know it's new position and our two Frenchies yeah but no I mean every year we are growing more because this is the largest family that we've brought here um and you're the first family that accepted a rental because you flew you had no option and all of you want to say no to things that's a that's the tough part with gold star families is that you guys are all tough you're resilient you don't want to be catered to but it is nice to get catered to a little bit you know um but that's I will take a vacation in Hawaii tomorrow hey and here's the other thing by myself we we also want to get to a point where we can pay for prior goldar families to come back right like so that it's not a burden to them so next year we can pay for Hario to or his family and then have enough money to say hey Wendy we can pay for a ticket you know hey Nikki hey Kristen we can pay for a ticket um I can pay my own ticket I know you can but I I told my husband I mean I don't know if he I want to come back and compete you know I'm on my own level yeah and um maybe a all girls team that would be cool Nikki's competing next year yeah but I don't know if I'll be able cuz we're going to do The Summit in June we got in June yeah well I don't know when we're doing Hero Games next year but I if I had to pick a date right now it would be the third week of October because this place in October is beautiful is gorgeous well if you did it the third week in October I actually might be able to make it it would be it' be super cool just cuz June and August are really close but I would like to and I think I could train to do it like everyone else what are you talking about yeah you know to Perfection I think you did yeah um well I uh I think at this point everyone who's listening to this podcast knows what we do so we don't need to talk about that anymore but you know um with Rob we talked about him growing up with you making it to range regiment his deployments his last deployment the impact that that had on you and Logan um and uh and and the healing process the grieving process we talked about how how we can preserve that Legacy and how that makes you feel you guys help me at a good time a time where our world right now is just our country I shouldn't say World maybe world to but our country is going through a lot of turmoil you know and with you know all our Democrats Republican blah blah blah whatever side you're on but I feel like you know we're just a selfish place and these boys sign you sign a paper to go we have to have a military because if we don't we're not going to be speaking English you know we have to have a strong military I'm adamant I know that and but people don't care they're oblivious no we're not cuz we're a military family you know you guys you know all of us your town has a lot of military like a huge heart of military it's crazy and people that haven't served but they just love maybe the Bedford Boys brought that for you but regular America doesn't have this not even a lot of military towns and I feel like that's what needs to be put out there my son was smart he didn't have to just join the military if he didn't want to it wasn't his only option I think a lot of people think that it's your only option I know I did a long time ago and he chose to and that's what I think makes me sad the reason you're able to do this is because of our military yeah I I totally agree um and you know the good thing is that uh guys like Rob don't give a [ __ ] what those Chumps think you know and and he also wasn't doing it for that you know he was doing it for you and Logan he was also doing it for the opportunity to you know to crush some evil person a thousand miles away who if given the chance would do harm to you right and so um I think though that yeah the way you feel a lot of people feel that way and I think that it in some ways it was Amplified with the the way that we left Afghanistan you know um how how can you you mean upside down yeah um I I think that that I think it amplifies that whole feeling made me angry yeah tell me more no I just feel like my son died in that country I wasn't where my son died I didn't get you know your child dies in a car accident you can go back there bring them home my son died overseas I to bury him twice because the military found parts of him and other stuff I don't even understand that that was so emotional because we were somewhere and I couldn't get there to do it so I had to ask a family member to meet someone at the cemetery to bury my kid another little coffin in the ground where he how emotional you think that is oh that screwed me up for a good year or two but then okay we're just going to go home now we're going to it's over you know and now look at it it's all freaking nightmare again that's what uh it's horrible it's horrible but our government doesn't care they don't care what we think yeah I think you automatically think like what did all those guys die for and I think I think I think that's the first thing you think about obviously as you think about it like they died you know for each other and and their country and and to you know you know obviously kill bad people and and you know do what they had to do but but it sucks when the way the way it all happened it seemed like it was taken over in the matter of two like 20 years was destroyed in two days and it just I think for all the families who have lost people like it leaves a horrible feeling and kind of just recirculates those emotions that you kind of had when they first died when you say well what was this really like you think automatically when they die you really think like well what did they die for and then you kind of kind of cope with that and then years later when it actually finally ends and then the way it did end those same feelings you had when they die research this so this really didn't they died for for no reason right because they the Taliban took back over and now they're doing the same horrible things that they were doing before so I think it's it just leaves a horrible horrible feeling like in your in your mind they've been fighting forever they're going to fight forever I don't know you know and not just us how about your children your children didn't get to see you all the time cuz you had to go over there and fight fight fight you know it's not just us it's it's our military you know the kids the kids pay a big price big price yeah they do um and I don't I I don't know how I feel about it all you know because I see the the positive sides too that like you have a hero and my children know what selflessness looks like and they're going to be better for it so it's tough It's it's tough you can you can find the silver lining but that doesn't bring back rob you know um and all the things you said about Rob did it are 100% % true um it's super tough though it's hard to really Define um I feel like nobody cares that's just me like you know sometimes I feel like we repeat the same thing over and over but I'm not in the government so I think we can say without a doubt that they did a lot of good when for the last 20 years they did a lot of good they saved a lot of people without a doubt you're never going to eradicate hate evil it's impossible no all you can do is it's like fighting a fire so it was not all in vain like it was for a reason I agree I mean we know for sure that another 9911 had not taken place for you know the 20 years that we were kicking the [ __ ] out of these [ __ ] you know what I'm saying so if that's the one thing then I feel like I did my part I I love that I don't think our country will really realize the effects of War until it's here and I mean here on our grounds I feel like the regular people sure well I mean you know I think we felt that a little bit with 911 and you know everyone was suddenly a patrio mhm uh I think as bad as 911 was it was it was also beautiful for this country oh yeah right because yeah um I think about like Vietnam I told you before I think about those soldiers came home and got spit on so yeah it I mean we have grown yeah but I think most people cuz I don't know the percentage I mean you might know the percentage of military versus civilian what is the percentage oh wow you know I I often hear people say it's 1% right if you think about it I think the generally people say that there's about 365 million Americans um and you know I don't know the the size of the dod but let me see little Google [Music] [Laughter] [Music] search do some quick calculations so the number of active duty service members dropped from 3.5 million in 1968 to about 1.3 million in today's all volunteer Force so active duty service members now comprise less than 1% of all us adults wow so then let's take it as step further what percent of the US military is Special Operations so 3.5% of the entire Department of Defense is Special Operations wow so now we're talking about 3.5% of the 1% of Americans and I'm no mathematician but I think that's a pretty small percentage it's very very small 300 % right yeah sounds sounds perfect to me yeah you know so that's why I just I in the beginning my sister's really big with it like she will argue people down in the store she don't care when she gets pissed off by something they do or say it's crazy where I don't I'm not like that I want everybody to love everybody and just you know but I just stopped it I was just like you know what there's just the like you said Rob died for his family his unit his company his Battalion his army that's who he gave his life for yeah 100% it's just the point that I just don't feel like until you I am to blame too until you walk in the shoes of it you don't understand it I was raised a non-military child you know my family didn't but when I met my husband is of course when I realized and Rob already had that in him I what was it General votel spoke is it votel that spoke at Rob's funeral that's what you said the other night I'm almost positive nobody quote me please but he said Rangers are not made they're born and I believe that with my whole heart I believe you have to be a special person to be in special operation my husband in the beginning thought about it but he knew he just with family and everything he had kids when he joined his from his first wife and he just knew he couldn't do it Rob never wanted children until after he got out of the military because he said I do not want another man rising my children because he was raised without a dad his biological father so he knew that's what he wanted and he knew the sacrifice 100% And he knew this war was not going to be easy when he signed up we were already at War when you guys signed up so I find like that's even higher level before them people joined and they had you know we were not at War it's easy you know you're just training over and over and over you know for sure I I remember what I was going to say now is this very small percentage is quite similar to Rob's favorite movie before his last deployment 300 yeah right the concept there it's it's quite similar um so you could see why Rob probably Drew parallels and probably felt like a bit of a Spartan um Rob had book you know it's so weird how things happen before Rob died he was really weird with like thinking about religion you know we're not a overly religious family we don't go to church every Sunday but we are God-fearing people and he was like talking to me a lot about it like Mom what do you think about this and I said I you know Rob I believe in God and Jesus I take a little bit from everything I said he goes I just maybe maybe I need to go to a church or something like he was having some you know I don't know if he was trying to prepare hisself but he had books that he had bought brought with with him overseas and they were some really I wish I could remember like old brand new books but they were old stories like this thick and they sit on my shelf to this day and cuz he hadn't opened them he didn't open them they're still not opened I never opened them I never touched a page in them so I think like he you know I don't know I think about that like do we are we PR like prepared like do is there like a sign something happens you know 300 they went to war they knew they were going to die yeah I mean didn't they what was the percentage they came home yeah yeah pretty small right um yeah I think that I I I get why Rob felt that way about not wanting to have kids because um for me the past 20 years was just like live it up because I'm I might be dead next week and in some ways that's super unhealthy it's extremely unhealthy yes yeah um at the same time in other ways we live very full lives because of it because every day counts there's no rest day you know Rob lived hard played hard yeah he said when he went to Vegas before his last deployment he called me on the phone from Vegas had never been mom they treat you like royalty here I'm going back so we went when he was 13 to Vegas and he was like I'm going to college here I go yeah you sound just like your brother he goes it's fabulous as he had stuffing in his pocket all these stripper cards he's picking up off the ground D it 13 what's in your pocket wow man you could go there and like they had like a it's like a kids Casino where you could play like Deal or No Deal and all this kind of like stuff and then we'd walk the streets and all the hookers would have their like personal cards on the ground and like obviously they'd be in like little tiny like bikinis and I'd be picking them up putting them on my pocket to save and that's hilarious dude well is there anything else you want to say before we close this out just thank you yeah thank you thank you guys for being here it was uh super cool to get to know you all and old Meat Castle included yeah what a guy what a guy yeah um he's like Mike gave me his number he's already text me pictures of guns I'm like Mike yeah him and him and Mike Nick is like Mike's like Mike wish he like his son was like Nick like in my video Mike loves Nick he like my kid lives in the basement plays video games yeah I'm tracking I can see that um dude that's hilarious man yeah Mike's a trip what the first night that you guys showed up to us he called you and Nick like a a h and or something wrestling tag team um and then Mike gave Nick the nickname uh Castle oh is that who gave it to him yeah it's Mike um and you know one one little thing real quick about Mike is this is this is all about you guys but you see on the periphery the healing that's taking place Mike did 21 years in in soft and you saw him on stage yesterday break down I've never seen Mike like that it was good for his heart it was good for his heart right so you know you you guys are are helping us heal too I hope so yeah I hope it's full circle it is no doubt without a doubt yeah I do I hope you know what like we're all we have each other cuz we all know yeah exact exactly we all know mhm so I appre took me a while to realize it but it's okay yeah you went through something that hopefully we never have to experience yeah I just don't know maybe one day we'll just I don't know it'll all be over and a bang yeah I think you you'll you'll know one day because I'm confident that we'll see each other again you know oh 100% I'm I know one day not that I'm ready to dive in any means now but one day I will be with Rob again yeah maybe not in this atmosphere but yeah yeah and definitely yeah I feel I mean that kept me going so yeah well Wendy and Logan thank you appreciate you appre and then I wanted to say too like like but like this was really my first ever experience with like a charity or anything like that but I think in terms of like like donations and things like that I never really understood why like donating or like companies and things like or Charities had their own money but like I think like the donations and everything like that like they really mean like like they really do make a difference right like you guys are saying you can do more with with more more donations and things like that for the families and I think like just being here has really changed my perspective on like donating and like you know raising awareness and funds and things like that so I think it's really cool like you know coming out here and experienc and and even hopefully one day you know I can donate or something like that when I'm able to afford it right or my company right like like the company I work for like they send out every year like I like I looked into it after I you know right when I was about to get here I was like like do they even donate like the company I work for like you like sign up and basically like you can pick what charity you want to donate to and this is like this is an awesome one obviously to donate to so I think hopefully people who are listening to this and I'm going to tell people as well like donating to a cause like is does really make a change and make a difference yeah and I appreciate you saying that because the charity and nonprofit world is is Icky dude there are people that are using donations to pay themselves a salary we we make no money off of this we spend our own money put money into it yes dude yeah no we it's like any business you know thousands and thousands and thousands of our our own all of this podcast equipment came out of my personal money this is not donation money that paid for this stuff I didn't know that people get salaries from Charities until like we create this I'm like how is that legal I thought it was charity there is a few yeah I thought the same thing too right like so I mean even with like like you said like weird stuff goes on and then I think that's what apprehends people from No Doubt taking like doing that cuz included I don't donate to like Wounded Warrior projects because if you actually look at their financial breakdown six figures like 1% of your dollar is going towards what you think it is whereas here it's literally paying for your plane ticket or your BNB it's not paying for my car or I mean the food you gave us I mean that you know just everything I feel guilty I mean I like want to write you a check who can I send thank you notes to like who owns the orchard you know and this and that dud it's so much it's so many people I know it's just I don't have enough paper stamps that's why we don't do it I'm just kidding no we like we these are people that give every year I it could we could talk about it for an hour I donate to St Jude's because they're doing great stuff and what they do is just the most amazing thing and I hope we never as a family need to use them but and then uh the Fisher's house you know there's few other thing there's things that you know that these these families need there's PE but 100% you're dead on with that yeah so I make sure I know yeah that's that's great now you guys and yeah Logan works for a company that could we don't want to say their name cuz then they'll get free advertising no yeah you can't like they're like super like about you can't disclose like our name over any any sort of social media but but he could probably look into it there's a thing you go to fill out to like go for review and I'm pretty good at my way with words so I think that'll be super sick I think I can do something yeah yeah and you guys were also part of our first um I keep calling it a micro documentary it's going to be like five minutes long something that goes on YouTube that shows what we do um and and that was I think that's going to bring a lot of traction to the organization and so every year that's how we get bigger is one person reaching out to their company and doing something to support the cause so it it's it's slow organic growth we don't have any sugar daddies yeah but it takes someone come be our sugar daddy yeah we'll take one hey even Nick said he wanted to donate but he said if he got a tick and got lime disease he wasn't donating a do oh bro that would literally make the Meat Castle crumble dude how do you stay that meaty without eating meat he went home scrubbed his whole body and then sat on the couch and talked about he thinks he feels a microscopic tick entering his skin this is what went on for an hour I was like dude shut the fu that's hilarious I don't know man you've lived here for 30 how old are you probably thousands of tick bites it's fine well one of the women that my sister was with said she got lime disease I don't was Liz do Liz have lime dis everybody thinks they have Lyme disease around here dude I know I'm like what I said so that's all Nicholas has to he a chick I'm like oh you're such a yes yeah dude funny fun like a lunatic that's hilarious yeah well cool anything else guys no I just want to say thank you guys so much I mean this is awesome for him he there's things I talked about just even on this podcast that I've never talked about before um just cuz I didn't know how to but I think when someone lays out like a outlet for you to talk about and like to meet people and you know like to meet other brothers of service members and things like that you know it's it's just awesome and I think I I'm hope really hoping and praying that like things like this are the kind of things that like grow into something huge and blow up and and can spread throughout the country and yeah man me too us too I'm grateful you have no clue we can tell and we appreciate that it was just this that just happened and very grateful yeah good all right thanks guys thank you thank you [Music]