and they said no you're not listening to me Ari I don't need $250,000 I go I know that and the government does not care and they are going to force you to take out more than you will ever want because they want their share and so if you know you are going to be in a tax bracket where it's going to be pushing you to pay more than you want to at what we call the not so fund rate you want to consider Roth conversions doesn't mean you want to consider it today but it means you want to consider it generally when your income begins to decrease or if retirement is right on the horizon there