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5 years ago a really crucial part of his victory was um dealing ruthlessly with his teammate Sebastian vle down to the um Roger chican and Oscar pastri took a leaf out of his book on his way to um or what turned out to be second place but um yeah they he had the race in his hands for a while so it seemed but then um yeah strategically Ferrari play the Blinder and um McLaren rather dropped the ball exactly lots for us to get into there shortly but Scott it is special to have a home win I normally talk about home wins for drivers but Ferrari at Monza it doesn't actually happen that often as we talked about in the podcast before the weekend so it's just nice isn't it yeah it's a good story um especially after the way the Ferrari season had tapered off and they' got themselves into all kinds of trouble and we've been talking a lot about lir overachieving with these unexpected podiums and just sneakily putting in Great Performances and it was it's nice from that side of things but a Ferrari win at Monza is kind of always cool regardless of the circumstances and uh yeah the reaction I mean I could hear it I was watch I watching this one from home so following it on TV um the the sound I I know what it's like I was there at in 2019 when lir won I know what that's like actually Trackside and it is absolutely incredible I can't believe that you can still hear it on the Telly like there's only a handful of occasions and races that happens and yeah that's just what that's what Ferrari does to fans that's what theair does for fans so yeah it's pretty amazing yeah it was great and Samar we had a little bit of a feel of that atmosphere didn't we because in the final laps of the race we were both down waiting for the drivers so you I mean sort of just by the pit building basically so in know so you can hear everything it's my first time at monzo for the Italian Grand Prix and it feels like a bucket list event and then to have lir winning it incredible I mean that noise just gave me chills it was beautiful and and you could just see the excitement on everyone's faces I mean people were shouting outside the media center when when everyone invaded the invaded the probably legally I don't know how it Wass but it was just incredible the atmosphere is beautiful and it is just something I I hope you know lots of people get to experience fantastic exactly well they do let the crowd come on that's why they got the podium out out there that they I was going to say a few years ago but it's been like that for quite some time now but yeah it's a it's an amazing and historic venue and yeah nobody can begrudge a Ferrari win except perhaps the the McLaren hardcore fans but it's just another great weekend in this massively storied season so Mark as ever we'll start off with a traditional question how did the race play out in the way it did particularly when it came to the clerk's One-Stop Master stroke yeah um the Ferrari was pretty good in race trim it was nicely balanced I mean it wasn't that far off on a qualifying lap you know they weren't that far behind in qualifying so the the the top cars were very closely matched over um a single lap um but on a sequence of them the Ferrari did look after the front tires particularly well on a weekend where front grening was very much an issue and is what what what the teams were very nervous of going in and the Ferrari this year's Ferrari unlike last year's Ferrari is very good on its front tires McLaren's very good on his rear tires but it it works the front a bit more aggressively so that played part of it but I I think rather than it being the crucial differentiator it was the more the ner nervousness that McLaren had about that trait of its car that made them think with with the input also of the the drivers made them think that now the the front left's not going to do the distance it's not going to be able to hang on and and retain that track position we're going to have to stop again and it turned out that yeah did while the front lefts were graining there were graining on everyone even on the Ferraris maybe a little bit less um but the it would wear off and in hindsight they realized that actually there was loads of Tire left it would and it it would just wear off as as the the tread depth came down the graining would disappear and the tire would come alive again and so hindsight says that the mcclaren's pitted unnecessarily obviously lir didn't have anything to lose he was he was running third um after the the first stops um but he would have finished third even had it not worked even had had the one stop not worked so there was nothing to lose so he could more easily more readily he and Ferrari could more readily take that risk of of saying well let's try one stop let's see if the tires will hold on whereas if you're running one two in the race it's it's it's a harder decision to make but yes that was um that was pretty much the story now there there is another way McLaren could have controlled lir and that would been if they were running one two right from the start and they' use the second driver to back lle gradually ever further away from the leader and then then you would have strategic flexibility because he'd always have the the track position but of course that went um that wasn't possible once piastri had attacked Norris into the um second chicane on the first lap and that allowed lir to get between the two McLarens in that first stint so they didn't have the control that they would otherwise have had over the Ferrari and that would that that was another crucial point in the outcome I thought that was a brilliant moment when pastri made that move Sam it was obviously we'll get on to the benefit for the team whatever but I just thought that was a really good bit of determined racing he's not just going to sit back and be the be the number two driver and I think you like to see that in a driver yeah 100% And you like to see that NF1 you know you need deliberate moves like that you need people to commit to the bit and I and and sometimes a lot of things people complain about sport is that it's over engineered sometimes and you get a result is shaped by you know outside factors too many times but here it just felt like a proper move on track and there was no rubbish around it and I loved it yeah really enjoyed watching it exactly that's what you want to see we'll come back to the way McLaren played it shortly but Scott let's bring you in to talk a little bit about Ferrari because I know coming into the weekend I didn't feel that the switch to low down Force alone would be enough to change Ferrari's fortunes but that the floor upgrade could so do you think there's enough to say that its problems are SOL now with the upgrade not just the downforce the low downforce stuff for Monza but also the floor tweak no I think it's um it's too early it's inconclusive lur suggested that even the old package would have been fine here in terms of the purposing problems that they usually usually run up against that's because it's a low downforce track it doesn't have low Corners uh sorry long Corners that uh long radius Corners that stress the the downforce in that way the car doesn't have to run in a window where it's slightly less optimized um so I I wouldn't say that this means when we go to Every track or we go to faster circuits higher speed circuits Ferrari will be a lot more competitive than it was previously the encouraging thing was that the floor seemed to be doing everything they expected it to do and given they expect this floor to work in a way that shouldn't trigger that stuff that that should be optimistic but we're not going to get a concrete answer on that for several races it's going to require much bigger sample set than a bit of an outlier of a of a circuit so I think this was more a combination of the inherent strengths of the 24 Ferrari the effort that always gets put into that low down Force Special everybody brings something to to Monza but Ferrari kind of went always go the extra mile I think and and went that again this year I was quite confident coming into the weekend that they'd certainly be a more competitive level that than we'd seen previously and given what I think I said this as well given what llar has shown in less competitive Machinery I I wasn't rolling out a Podium but I would not have put money on lir winning this race um even even at the start qualifying so strongly um I think that Ferrari will be encouraged by this but given as I think lir said this as well given its last win or his last and his last win came at a special circuit that very perfectly gelled with the characteristics of the car preceded a run of Ferrari's worst races of the Season uh I think it's fair to not get carried away too much at the moment although Baku and Singapore coming up that should suit Ferrari very nicely caros SS of course finished fourth he also did the one stopper but he ran a bit longer in the first stint ran to lap 19 L clerk stopped on 15 but actually that means Ferrari's Constructor Championship challeng has kind of woken up a bit they're only 39 points behind Red Bull at the moment so the back in that if they can keep scoring points just this season just keep swinging back and forward but we have to say Mark that drive from L cler it just showed he's not just a one laap Merchant is he yes he is a stunning qualifier but I think sometimes people assume that means he's not great in the race but we've done we we've seen him do these sort of races where he protect an entire Silverstone 21 that one stopper he did which would have been in the front left again that was the concern it reminded me a bit of that he does do these drives he does he's the full package and you know the fact that he's such spectacular qualifier um leads people to to to think that he's just a a one trick pony but he's not and he's he's he does everything required extraordinarily well one of the things that impressed me so much about the cla's performance was the um the consistency combined with the the feel that he had in the in the cockpit um behind the wheel to work out how the car was changing and whether or not he was facing a terminal decline in the performance of the tires and the grip that he had available or if it was something that he'd be able to ride out because I don't think it's a coincidence that he started to feel a little bit more from the front left when piastri stopped and he lost that bit of dirty air um I think there was a combination of working through that graining phase and being given the time by Ferrari to work through that graining phase as well and the race situation changing he didn't have a car in front of him anymore however much that was or wasn't destabilizing him and that kind of of touch and his experience meant he was able to identify as a situation that was then worth persevering with he wanted to do a one stop all along everybody knew that the one stop was the quickest way but he did have doubts in the same way that McLaren had doubts so I think what llar did so spectacularly well was just adjusting his driving protecting the front left as soon as he realized that the git was coming back and he felt more confident in the car he started leaning on the rear axle more so that was where he was getting his lap time from and then that was prect protecting the the the the front left so a little bit of driving driving change a little bit of car balance change with the tools that he has behind behind the wheel um electronically on the car just meant that lir kind of grasp this opportunity that he realized for himself was coming back towards him so as much as there were differences in car performance and race situations and obviously it wasn't as big a loss for lur to try the one stop as it would have been McLaren leading the race you know if lur finishes third because the on stop doesn't pan out he hasn't lost anything from where he was to begin with you just can't underestimate the quality of the job that he did to actually execute it I mean he was he was a good 5 Seconds quicker than signs um from the moment from when piastri stopped to the end of the race I think he was about four and a half seconds faster couple attempts a lap and he had three lap holder tires I think so it was it was excellent from L Clair yeah absolutely and science tried to do his bit by holding piastri up not a huge amount of uh uh of difference it made but just a little bit and it all adds up when you've only got what just over two and a half seconds at the end of it so yeah a great win for Ferrari I think they really needed something like this and it's fantastic when you have sort of similar Pace because because that's the thing I think we'll get on to how McLaren played it in a moment but a lot of people will be saying well McLaren had comfortably the fastest car but if you look at it I mean I said at one point during the race Mar in the second stick the cler was just there wasn't he he just was not falling back no McLaren was not a decisively faster car than the Ferrari and in fact the belief at McLaren is that the Ferrari was actually the faster race car because purely because of the the easier time it give it frun tires so now I think McLaren was had the had the edge in qualifying over a single lap just because it was um very very Progressive as it always is and got a lovely mix of performance over a lot of different speed ranges but um in the race no I don't think it was a faster go than a Ferrari yeah it certain he would agree with that let's get into McLaren now Samar and there's endless scrutiny of McLaren when it comes to the way they held uh the way they managed the race the race members Club obviously has sent in lots of questions about this so we're going to talk through McLaren with with sort of three questions that are amalgamations of what many of you sent in hopefully I'll be able to name check all of you so the first one is a question that's sort of a mix of Michael C Fabian H Ben Gary and Ryan nor so there's a few elements to it but it it boils down to one sort of topic should McLaren have told piastri not to overtake Norris on the first lap is it time to mentor piastri to avoid the losses from that sort of pass should he have been told not to overtake and given some criticized piastri for that pass including apparently the sky commentary team why do certain people expect piastri to take up a botas or Perez style role within the team uh well I'll start with the the last one first why do people expect pastri to take a botas and peris role I well I I think it's because he's young you know um so he's he's a bit more of an unproven factor in that regard so the kind of narrative inevitably drifts towards that but the other thing I'd say is if you start to enact team orders that strongly you risk alienating one of the drivers and you don't want to take that risk with pastri is because he's performing quite high level you know he's doing a great role and I won't say a second driver because he's he's proven himself not to just be that but he's doing a great role helping McLaren so why risk alien Asing him and pushing him out um he's also closer to uh my my arithmetic is terrible it's not my strong suit but he's closer to um Norris in the standings than Norris is to fappen so if you're going to kind of value the driver's Championship there you've got to take P3 into account as well I think he deserves a chance of that he deserves a shot at that and also by swapping positions and stuff you risk giving another position away to a car that's closer behind like you know it's a car one second behind or it's not easy to swap a position you have to slow down considerably make room and that opens you up makes you more vulnerable so um yeah no I thought the was absolutely fine as we said earlier I thought it was wonderful there was some talk mark from Andrea Stellar about whether it fitted in with their Rules of Engagement what do they call it the uh I forgot they had a terrible phrase for Papa terms or something like that papaya rules papaya rules I don't like the phrase but Andrea Stella said something about needing to measure against those rules whether he should have done it they were're going to look at the video and discuss whether any um any internal rules had been broken in that move and so I would suspect the terms are simply you do not hit each other and so was there any Tire rubbing involved and stuff like that I suspect is what they're going to be looking at but um I no for for me from the outside um it's a different perspective from putting yourself in the position of the team when you're asking should the team be doing this logically um the team probably should and probably will be uh doing in in future they're probably they've got to the stage now um where they will probably be according more priority to Lando just because of the point situation and the uh the fall off in form of Red Bull so yes from a team perspective yes but from a fast perspective why ever would you want the team to do that you just you just want to see people racing oh I would anyway yeah it was a great I thought one of the best moments of the season so thank God the team didn't exactly yeah yeah very very much agree with that and it's still 6 two points Norris is behind and I know you can say well if hypothetically hungry was different and this was different but I just don't think Norris has got close enough yet for it to be a really live battle there have been hardly any swings of that sort of magnitude in world championship history not just pure number of points but even if you Prater it for different point systems uh so there's the second question that I'm going to throw at you Scott and in fact Chris parrots the first part of it because he directed this bit actually properly at you because he said surely today is the sort of day where Lando was supposed to get back the points he gave up in Hungary that obviously references things youve said before Scott and then supplementary questions why wouldn't McLaren swap their drivers when it was clear Oscar couldn't catch Charles and Simon Gregory James Godfrey Moon Andrew Dale NC Ramo Christopher Partridge Chris Beck Paul hoden and Darren and Daryl Finch were all among those who asked variations of that sort of question so why didn't they swap them round at some point uh well Norris didn't deserve it I think it's simp simple as that he was he was beaten by piastri in a fair fight on the opening lap he didn't have pastry's Pace during the grand PRI he used the front more aggressively than piastri did this is why he kept having to pit sooner so I think I think what McLaren owes Norris in these situations is to not do anything to protect pastry's lead I think the way Stella put it was that they wanted to make sure they gave every opportunity to Norris to come back at piastri himself during that race and I think they gave him that but he couldn't and I think when you have a driver who has only managed to beat his teammate once in the last four races on Merit that's Norris I don't think that driver deserves number one status just by default he's a long shot for the championship and I know it's exciting to talk about the title battle and maybe if things weren't so fun race by race at the moment maybe we'd be clutching at that Championship narrative trying to insist that there is a driver's championship fight on the cards it's possible and with where redel are at it's probably more possible than we thought when we were discussing things in Hungary but it's still such a long shot that you need to know that Norris is going to maximize it and this isn't a case like here for example of a 5050 situation that you then give to Norris because the championship situation demands it I think McLaren will do that and I think P will respect that order when it comes that's what I was talking about in Hungary when the situation arises where Norris needs to and deserves to be prioritized McLaren will back him and pastri will seed the seed ground and he will accept the order I'm pretty sure that will happen but I don't think that was today because I just don't think he was in a position where he he proved that he he he deserved it um the inconsist the Norris from xanor can catch for stappen and is and is worth backing 100% but he's very inconsistent at the moment so I just I think and it kind of comes back to what Samar was saying about the impact that it can have on piastri um and you can be make it just way too over complicated when they're fighting for the Constructors Championship as well you just run the risk of orchestrating things that don't need to be orchestrated trying to control the first lap of a Grand Prix for example is incredibly halfhazard because they're so chaotic trying to work out at what point you swap the cars during a race and therefore give up race time to not just one but potentially both of your cars is also a risk and at the end piastri is still trying to catch lir you do not know until the last lap of the race whether or not that front left is going to give out and he's suddenly going to have a really painful lockup that sends him across the runoff or something like that so it was absolutely right for pastri to push until the final lap now could they have moved him aside on the final lap of the Grand Prix I suppose so but for the sake of three points really don't think it's worth it and I still don't think it's worth it because all you're doing then is telling piastri that what what he's doing at the moment is irrelevant and that no matter how much better he is than Norris Norris will get preferential treatment if it was a slightly different set of RAC circumstances I maybe view it differently but the way it played out today I I stand by the fact that Norris should not be waved past and Norris even said himself he doesn't want to have to beg to be let by he doesn't think he deserved to beat pastri today and the third question will throw you mark Richard Randall and Oscar reblo both asked questions along the lines of whether McLaren not moving piastri aside was actually in adiss they are only going for the Constructor Championship and Mike McLaren Ru the decision of racing under papaya Rules by the end of the season um well any team values The Constructor Championship more than um the the drivers um but yeah obviously I think McLaren would like to get one of its drivers as as world champion um but it not at the expense of uh the you know the competitive situation of the other one um so yeah I think in in terms of the the team's management the constructors will take priori as it will in all the teams um but Stella was saying after Andre Stella was saying after the race that they're probably now going to have to look at you know prioritizing Norris and just especially because of the the drop off in format uh of a Sten so it's probably going to come but I don't think that um there's some agenda there to to not win to not have one of its drivers win the championship put it that way yeah it's only eight points in the Constructors Championship now so they're in a great position there and obviously this is a team that's still uh still sharpening itself at the front it's still becoming battle hardened and all of this is part of it but I certainly agree with the point Scott made about you can't endlessly over complicate things and they're doing what we want to see they're letting the two drivers race which is uh which isant fantastic for everybody watching and I think should be applauded but we'll get to the end of the season and Norris will be X points behind the stappen and if that number is below the number of hypothetical times I could have swapped round then there's a discussion to be had if it's not then it's it's by the buy isn't it you know we love talking stats here at the athletic here's one that's super simple to remember discover automatically doubles the cash back you've earned on your credit card at the end of your first year with cash back match that means with discover you could turn $150 cash back to $300 that's right you could put it towards some memorabilia you've had your ey on or treat yourself to a premium Sports Network you earn and discover doubles see terms at discover.com credit card you know that's the sound of another sale on your online Shopify store but did you know Shopify power selling in person too that's right Shopify is the sound of selling everywhere online in store on social media and Beyond Shopify POS is your command center for your retail store from accepting payments to managing inventory Shopify is everything you need to sell in person with Shopify you get a Powerhouse selling platform that effortlessly unites your inperson and online sales into one source of Truth track every sale across your business 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grammarly is an AI writing partner that helps you find the words you need and the right text for your context it learns your personal style and your brand or company style to give you personalized suggestions based on what you're writing and who's going to read it gramly works across all the apps and sites you use like word Google Docs Pages slack and more so there's no need to copy and paste grammarly Works where you work smart features like tone suggestions help you navigate even the most difficult work conversations and once more data privacy and security are woven into the foundations of gramy it's the gold standard of responsible AI with 15 years of best-in-class communication trusted by tens of Millions of professionals and it departments so get AI writing support that works where you work download grammarly for free at grammarly.com podcast that's g r a m r l.com /p podcast grammar easy as said done well let's get on to Red Bull now who were pretty Anonymous weren't they mark this was their low point of the Season locked out the fourth row sixth with Max fora and eighth with Sergio Perez why are things getting worse and is there any sign of a change a fix something that will reverse the slow slide that there's been going back months now there's no sign of a magic fix um but what uh Christian hor was saying after the race was that this has a this circuit has exposed some of the weaknesses that have been apparent in the car for quite a long time and specifically especially on a a l downforce track and your drivers just can't lean on the rear of the car hence the have to run a lot a lot of rear wing just to give them a little bit of confidence even ven needs needs needs that um but when you do that it just gives it an under steery balance in the race as soon as the tires get worn and you you know you you end up having higher front tire dig than everyone else so yeah they were they weren't that far off they in in qualifying that used tire time that Max did in Q2 shows that with when the car has got a reasonable balance it's still close enough that Max can probably squeeze out a very competitive time um but as soon as they put it on the new tires it it that that balance disappeared so yeah it was really in trouble this weekend um we know that um the Singapore track has been problematic for them um for slightly different reasons which may not apply this time but let's see I think on um a circuit with long very fast Corners it would still be very quick probably the quickest but uh the next few uh tracks aren like that so yeah they they are they are in a spot of bother and the McLaren is very very consistent and you just put it down and it runs fast whereas the Red Bull might not sometimes it might sometimes it might not yeah and consistency is certainly the most valuable weapon I think with these uh with these cars and McLaren is Comfortably ahead on on that score while other sort of FL way obviously Mercedes was a good example they were sporadically quick uh this weekend leis Hamilton obviously finished fifth George Russell had that mistake at the at the start uh got a little bit caught up with the breaking ran off the track got a little bit of front wing damage as well so his race unraveled a bit into just a lengthy battle with Sergio Perez that he eventually won quite uh quite comfortably but yeah Mercedes are sort of flip-flopping they were better over a single lap than a than a a race stint uh here so some work for them to do as well but the interesting thing with Red Bull is just the question of whether they've really got a good direction now there are those in the team who are absolutely adamant they now know the direction they need to go in whether it's the right one we don't know how long it's going to take Samar are you surprised to see the team in this sort of situation because normally they'll have a little trough and then you think oh something will come and they'll sort it out but it's the depth of the crisis is astonishing isn't it yeah it seems to be exacerbated uh and it seems to have been exacerbated um by them bringing part to the track and then you think they would have had a better clue of what's going on you know with AB testing in in Hungary with the flaw and that seems to have made it worse it just seems to be an immensely confusing thing you know you start to wonder have they reached the peak with the this design um you know this concept can they get anything more out of it's not just a case of adding downfalls to the car because when you do that you change the balance of the car and that's the issue they're having I mean if you just wanted to add downfalls to a car you could easily Red Bull could just add as much downfalls as they wanted they glue it to the floor but um it's not that easy it keeps changing the balance of it it's baffling with so many good engineers in that team um one wonders I don't think I've seen such a collapse like it but is baffling yeah certainly not for these sorts of reasons it's not like they haven't got the money to do it or they're struggling or whatever it's just things aren't working and yeah there's there's a possibility they might want to roll back cuz they're desperately trying to get the early a season balance in the car aren't they and I guess one way you could do that is by completely rolling back which they have been doing a lot of different experiments but how far do you have to roll back to then start carrying on and working forward that's the big question we're not that far from the end of the season obviously I know there's that big gap coming up after the next double header sort of a second break almost but if they're still deciding right now let's say they they worked out last night yeah we know what we need to do now and they need a new floor or whatever that's going to need to go through design and you know it's going to take a lot of time before it's on the car so yeah they're they're really in a lot of trouble The Constructor Championship on the current trajectory is gone for Red Bull driver's championship for Sten I think is still in a pretty good position as I keep saying points in your pocket is worth a lot but if Monas keep happening then it'll close very very uh quickly let's talk about the class b battle as I'm now calling we're back AR we Scott to this very clear Class A and Class B fight in F1 right now after that frustrated promise of zanor does Alex albin's Ninth Place confirm that Williams has leapt to the front of this group I think it's a very good reinforcement of that zanol pace because in the past we would have expected Williams to be strong here um because it's had less downforce and less drag than than everybody else but there's been a concerted effort with this year's car to to start to fix that and we saw for a lot of the first half of the Season that they'd made a kind of more rounded car but it was missing all the Peaks from before so it was just constantly somewhere between sort of 14th and 17th on the grid or 12th and 17th or whatever this is the first I think they called it the first proper upgrade that they had for xanor and to have gone from a track like xanor to a completely different challenge at Monza and still been in Q3 and this time been able to start in the top 10 and then work into a points finish okay some race circumstances went their way but they're properly in the mix now and would say circuit specific they're going to be I think it'll be Williams Aston Martin and H sort of vying to be best of the rest in that Midfield fight the RB team seems to have slipped away from that now seem to be confused um again or less successful again with another update which sort of has a kind of Echoes of what happened back in Spain I think it was um so that is slightly concerning but yeah this was um another very encouraging moment for for for Williams and um hats off to debutant Franco colapinto as well for not being a million miles away from the top 10 on yeah on his first start yeah good start for him we'll come back to the topic of Franco kapino shortly but Sam we need to talk about Kevin Magnuson he's got to sit out the next race in Baku for contact with Pierre gazley that probably wouldn't even threaten his top 10 or top 20 most controversial on track incidents in F1 so can you please explain how that's led to a ban uh yeah well he's he's picked up 12 penalty points over a year and that's that's it that's what's happened but he he was he cut a really really stormy figure in the in the post race pen and uh he was not happy um he said that there's no consistency because Ricardo uh took hulkenberg off track early in the race uh got penalty and and he did get a penalty for it and I was about to say that well actually I don't think it was that inconsistent because I think you know Ricardo got a penalty okay 5 seconds but I don't think he made like massive contact with hulkenberg so they probably looked at it like that hulkenberg got a 10-second penalty for um taking sonod out the race and to me consistency has kind of been used properly there I think Magnuson was to blame for that incident um someone who didn't think that was Fernando Alonzo who staunchly defended Magnus and and Fernando Alonzo has always been one of the more libertarian F1 drivers in terms of I don't like these heavy-handed penalties views it as heavy-handed and to some degree I sympathize with that I'm not in the car obviously so I I can't see what's going on in the inside but at the same time you've got to have a rule somewhere and you've got to set boundaries somewhere otherwise the rule becomes gray rather than black and white so I think that they kind of had no choice but to give him this penalty it was always going to happen once he did that um it was weird actually Pierre gastley was very sympathetic uh well he got very close to a band didn't he at one stage yeah exactly so maybe well maybe it was that maybe it was like a kindred spirit kind of thing um maybe F1 drivers are just generally feel that stewards are being too heavy-handed um but for me I kind of understand the need for these rules you know it's the same in other sports when you see it and you think oh it's so annoying that they had to apply it like that but you need a rule you just do otherwise you get grayer areas and no one likes that I must admit when it happened and it was pointed out that he was close to a ban my thought was well the phrase was causing a collision that's normally two points I thought how they going to get out of giving the two points I thought they do everything they could to stop that happening because whenever you have an accumulation based punishment it does look so heavy-handed when it's for quite a a mild incident but actually I think on when you have that in place you can discuss whether the the rule and the structure and all of that and the license points is correct but that's what it is and Magnuson knew that as well that he knew he was on the bubble so you kind of have to so I'm pleased from that perspective the debate about whether the system should be that different one yeah and the other thing is um is the implication of who will replace him at the next race and I think that's a pretty obvious answer right I mean it it's not been announced and it's almost certainly going to be Oliver bman though he is their Reser they've got two reserve drivers him and Petro faldi Petro faldi is racing an indie car Baku weekend anyway and why wouldn't you put bman in yes there's F2 Clash but he's already stepped out of F2 once this year to race for Ferrari so it's obvious that that bman is bound to be the one that they pick barring some bizarre unforeseen set circumstances probably by the time you listen to this it's been confirmed but uh yeah who knows we've been we've been caught out before but yeah they'll want Bon him because he's the The Logical one and of course he's driven the car this year in in fp1 we should note though on H as you said Scott H is part of this battle and it was H Williams and Aston Martin that were battling for those final points and actually Magnuson won that battle on the road he was ninth on the road he got a 10-second penalty as we've talked about and then he he held off uh he beat Lonzo by 0.193 second once that that was applied to get the final point so it's it's it's a bizarre Magnuson weekend isn't it there's so much good and bad in it uh even in qualifying where he had the the off at parabolica but he got through to Q2 he partly got through to Q2 because he got in other people's way once he'd gone into the gravel and just all all these sorts of things but very positive for H that that they're able to be in that that spot and obviously hulkenberg would have been in that battle had things not gone very very quickly wrong for him in the race with a slow start then that that that little shove from Ricardo yeah I think it was magnuson's best Drive of the Season best performance of the season I think the the incident that got that penalty that did did feel a little bit of a heavy-handed penalty didn't seem as bad as other stuff that we've seen but so be it I think there was there was a point during that Grand Prix where you messaged me Ed and just said this is kind of you were suggesting it was the H of old in terms of that every now and again H can have just a total capitulation race and it did look like that for a while didn't it when both cars picked up a penalty and it l like there were going to be nowhere near a points fight but it's very interesting different kind of strengths and weaknesses of the cars involved in that battle and I think uh was it Alonzo said after qualifying he'd rather have a new floor um than a brain at the moment because I think he was asked if an intelligent driver like him would be in a good position with the race on Sunday I think the race results probably Beed that out didn't it because as good as Alonzo isn't as smart as Alonzo is he has a car that just isn't as developed and potent as the Hassen Williams which is uh pretty damn indictment of where Aston Martin's gone as The Season's developed well I think Alonzo was very very keen to make that point because after qualifying I was down there when he was talking and he was he was throwing in a lot of Alonzo little one liners that in isolation there's nothing really wrong with it but you you know he's saying yeah the team's not very good at this there was one line where he said oh I think the more difficulties you have the more hard lessons you learn and I think we are experts on those and so he's doing that and he was very PR you could Lonzo looks very proud of himself when he says things like that he cannot help it I think it's great but yeah he's a bit frustrated I love the quote I'd rather have a faster flaw than a bigger brain exactly yeah I should have to be clever to do what we need to be faster but yeah uh I think Aston Martin they were in that fight for the for for the class B but they were sort of the third uh Team there and it could easily have been two hes so yeah that was a an interesting little part of the the race and yeah Magnus countless stories he'll have a weekend off now and at least his penalty points will be reset so that's the one positive of this particular thing of course we should just mention those penalty points they came in it's about it 2013 they came in it was partly due to things like the the groon ban and then wanting to have punishments for accumulation of incidents a principle I agree thoroughly with I don't like the way it's done in terms of having a specific tariff or whatever you call the offense I think it should be sometimes you should be able to give these points in isolation like if you if you cause four racing incidents or whatever in a row that means you're just you're not getting the risk reward right so that that that's an approach I'd like to see but that's not the way it is well it's a it's double jeopardy at the moment isn't it because you get the penalty in the race and you get licensed penalty points I don't understand why it has to be both I mean we've had so many conversations on this podcast about whether we should have penalty points at all and what how often penalties are dished out I really don't like the double jeopardy element and I'd like that that would be something I would change going forward give them the freedom to do one or the other you know egregious stuff can be an in race penalty and or licensed penalty points but you need to have some room for a oh okay that was a bit naughty and we probably need to put five or 10 seconds on your race time but are they the sort of things that if you do them six times in 12 months you should get a race ban I don't think they are I don't think anybody thinks they are yeah very very much so and I'm sure that'll trigger some discussion about this particular system hi I'm Jason Alexander or as you probably know me Royal flusher 25 from WSOP freeo playay app WSOP players I have some free chips just for you go hit the tables like the Legends you are download the WSOP freet to-play app where you can win rings and bracelets and tournaments and show them off to everyone at the table if you love poker play poker with 1 million extra chips using this promo code WS o p f re e 1 m Ryan Reynolds here from mmobile with the price of just about everything going up during inflation we thought we'd bring our prices down so to help us we brought in a reverse Auctioneer which is apparently a thing mmobile unlimited premium Wireless get 30 30 get 30 get 20 20 20 get 2020 get 15 15 15 15 just 15 bucks a month so give it a try at mintmobile.com switch $45 upfront payment equivalent to $15 per month new customers on first three Monon plan only taxes and fees extra speeds lower above 40 gbes you detail we onward to the third part of the podcast now that means listener questions thanks to everyone in the race members Club who sent in their questions we go through all of them we do our best to tackle as many as we can there's loads and it's really hard to squash them and I'll do my best to do it we will talk about well we will tackle more of the questions in a podcast in the gap between Monza and Baku but we'll take some uh uh some now Scott Vin aari first up hindsight is a wonderful thing but should Mercedes have begun kimming Ani's free practice program with a less radical run plan surely the best idea wasn't to start with a qual simulation on a completely green track before you answer that I'll just say we will get into Antonelli in a bit more depth in in a podcast before Baku but we're going to briefly touch on it now and this is our way of doing it so Scott take it away it wasn't a qualifying simulation Antonelli turned it into a qualifying simulation by going out and push it going maximum attack on the first runs um I I I I laugh because it is uh the it is amusing and it is that kind of over exuberance over over enthusiasm that we often warn of with young drivers stepping into these scenarios I he just couldn't help himself the the the outl push call Push is bog standard at the start of fp1 and I remember Oliver bman stepping in for the house in Mexico last year and he did I can't I I'm pretty sure it was push Co push there it might have been consecutive push but I'm pretty sure it was push Co push and what was really impressive about that was he had the first one was at about 95% and then the next one was like right 98% you saw him like really start to lean on the car more Antonelli kind of went out at about 99% at least on the first run what was your calculation on the exact percentage he was approaching parabolica 107 uh I think um so the second flying lap I I I spent quite a while trying to work this out and he his second flying lap into par bica he breaked later on that lap than Hamilton did for the entire of FP entirety of fp1 and all of his push laps later on uh he was never going to make that corner um it was it was an immense effort it was just the inexperience of a driver who doesn't know that you you can't push these tires that aggressively all the way around the lap when it's that green that's that's that's all it was it was something for him to learn from um I suspect he will learn from it the what you can't you you can interpret a few different ways what you can't do is you can't let him off the hook completely for it it was um it was a pretty silly and unnecessary mistake very costly put Mercedes in a position where if either Hamilton or Russell would run into problems whether they were their own mistakes or being hit by someone else over the rest of the weekend they'd have been missing spares of their latest spec and maybe potentially having to roll back um the these things do come at a a price and they can't just be completely brushed away it it's just you do have to have a slightly open mind of it and say well Mercedes is taking a very aggressive approach of Antonelli can't really then ask him to go out and be super conservative in the few laps that he does get between now and the start of 25 so um yeah don't let him off the hook completely um slightly see the funny side of it but yeah lesson to be learned for next time yeah and ultimately young driver crashes his story is old of time isn't it yeah it's not a good thing that it happened it's not excusable as such but yeah obviously it's just yeah the second flying lap just uh yeah I can only imagine what it felt like in the in the Mercedes garage particularly for those making the uh the decisions to put him in the car but yeah there's great things to come from Anna he's been confirmed for next year we will talk about him again before Baku Samar a question from Liam Scully Daniel Ricardo's extra penalty today was very harsh for not serving his original 5-sec penalty correctly could or should this rule be changed regarding mechanics touching the car for the mechanic that touched the car it's just muscle memory doing hundreds of pit stops It ultimately didn't benefit them so it's a penalty and it should be served if if that's in the rules um and you're not serving the penalty if you're working on the car because that will give you an advantage now if you're touching the car you can do various things to it you can change the flap angles you can remove a tear off that Stu somewhere let's say uh I don't know what else you could do you could multiple things let's say to give a driver a performance and if you did that go old school glass of champagne yeah exactly that kind of thing yeah absolutely and um you know that wouldn't be serving the penalty so I can see why the FIA enacted that penalty now I yeah okay it seems harsh cuz it absolutely ruined his race and it wasn't his fault in that sense he didn't touch the car himself but if the rules are written out that way the FIA had no choice but to um Implement them in that way so yeah they're back into a corner in that sense the rules were written and again you know I appreciate that there's no kind of gray area in that sense having a black and white is good sometimes so you know we don't have to argue the point we can just be like well it's Stone Cold he touched the car it's done and you know I like that I yeah okay it feels harsh but what can you do yeah you've got to serve the penalty properly and if you allow leeway people will take Liberties won't they that's just what happens so yeah just just don't touch the car I mean yeah the point about muscle memory it was a mistake I think it was touching the front Wing wasn't it so it I'm sure the personally did it feels terrible about it but it happens yeah and you can uh see on the video if you watch it again you can see the moment of realization and the kind of regret it's quite uh I wouldn't say it's funny but it's quite it's quite an interesting scene to watch if you can find a clip ah yes yeah an alarming moments Mark a question from benwood now for you why were there so many issues with pit stops can it be attributed to the higher ambient temperatures at this race partly yes um 30 30 odd degrees um for most of the the day but it's also the combination of um very high uh straight line speeds and slow corus so you're really putting an awful lot of energy and heat through the stub axles and brakes and much more so than at a a normal truck uh so you you know breaking from 200 odd miles hour down to 70 or so several times in the lap and yeah that that does create problems uh the different um expansion rates of different materials invariably um can cause problems next question I'll take from Simon Partridge if Alam PR said his 199 on Ferrari was like a horrible truck to drive albe it because of component failure what should happen to Perez for saying that driving the Red Bull at Monza was like you're in a boat yeah that was his post-qualifying thing it was a good phrase Perez knew he was on very very safe ground here and in fact Perez was uh was quite a bit less guarded than he normally is about this sort of thing because he thinks Max is in the same boat to use that phrase as me I'm on firm ground so I can I can say whatever I want about it and yeah because he was talking about that disconnection that underst and he said you can't do anything about it you're in a boat you just got to wait for it to respond so yeah I think everybody in Red Bull is in agreement about that so Perez is safe on that particular uh on that particular camp but yeah it was a it was a a good phrase he use and I get the sense with Perez as well that he feels maybe they should have because vapam was kind of carrying the team for a bit and papering over the cracks and maybe Sergio Perez was the sort of canary and the coal mine as it were warning of this and they should have thought actually it's it's not purely as we've talked about before the Stapp and being able to deal with the more extreme balance it's like actually we just need to know if this is something where the max effect is is too overpowering as it were and it's uh and it's a fundamental problem that's eventually going to catch up with Max V stappen which of course it it has as well because he has to obey the laws of physics much as he'd like not to so yeah that that boat description was extremely good and uh one we may bring up again in the future Scott a question from Sebastian and pabell adante Sebastiano asked how Cola Pinto's race compared to Alex Alban's and pabell was keen on a comparison to Logan Sergeant's recent performances I would say that it was a perfectly respectable performance compared to to Alburn um I think he was giving away a relatively small amount of time two or three t a lap on average given the the gap between them at the flag um albin's race kind of the second stint in particular after he picked the first time seemed to kind of EB and flow I don't know if he went for a particularly troubling graining phase uh like like um others feared um so there were there were times where he looked very competitive relative to Alba other times where he was maybe lacking a little bit but I was impressed with this overall um I mentioned it earlier but I just thought it was a very assured debut underperformed and qualifying definitely should have been in Q2 not just because alurn had that car in Q3 but because kopindo himself had had really good Pace in final practice and shown that the the speed was in him so disappointed that he got knocked out in q1 but he kept his nose clean at the start drove very well in the first stint I thought avoided um getting caught up in anyone else's nonsense made one or two passes himself over the course of the Grand Prix and I think if that's the starting point I think he's starting near the upper end of what we often saw from Sergeant at his best he's missing some speed he's got a few temps to Alban I think if alurn absolutely enals everything and then we see where colapinto is so maybe he's kind of in the middle of Sergeant's usual kind of range because Sergeant could be very close to Alburn sometimes in qualifying but race wise I don't really think he was missing very much compared to Sergeant to be honest I don't really see if you supplant Sergeant back in I don't think that second Williams finishes any higher really yeah I thought it's a very good foundation for kipin so it's exactly what he needed to do and he could well have been in Q2 had he not made that mistake at lesmo 2 on his final q1 run smth connected to that Dan Neil and Michael Holden are similar questions I've combined into has Williams is switched to colino already proved to be the right choice and has James vows been Vindicated there was a similar question from Andrew silit as well so I think Scott put it really well um why kito's debut was quite impressive pretty good debut and and uh you know the thing with vals I think he inherited Sergeant as a driver of his he wasn't a product of his time at Williams so you know to have colapinto there he's really proud of that the academy and it show and he thinks it shows Williams a good light to have an academy driver enter mid-season and do such a good job so yeah I think it definitely vindicates him and it almost um I think it was an easy choice to make in a sense and there's no slight on Sergeant I think he's talented enough to make it in other series definitely but um I don't think it was a hard choice to make given sergeants form for Williams um so there wasn't really much of a question for me whether it was going to be Vindicated at all it certainly indicates there's a chance that kapino can bring some points in the upcoming races Mark Alex ragath says to what extent can Red Bull's drop off be attributed to the reduced wind tunnel runs and cfd hours they're allocated as incumbent Championship winners it seems they are simply being outd developed by Rivals and are rushing undercooked update to counter this yeah it's definitely playing a part it's it's it's definitely beginning to to hurt and now that they've got to a stage where they got a a sticky little development problem that's when you really need the the hours the wind tunnel hours so um it's not the reason that they've they've hit this uh problem in the first place but it's um it's limiting their ability to um quickly eradicate it next question I'll take from darl Finch after the mirror CLE that the Ferrari strategy team have pulled off can we expect a meeting with the Pope and and a saint hood or does this end the running joke that has been Ferrari strategy I think Ferrari strategy's got reasonably good in recent times I think it's uh it's good under Fred verer things have tightened up and they've executed pretty well but I do think actually meeting with the Pope and the Satan and everything it is a huge deal for Ferrari to win at Monza particularly after that dip they've had recently and people be looking at McLaren and Mercedes taking the fight to Red Bull while ferraria so I think it'll help Fred verer a lot which is good because verer is doing some very good work there in terms of just getting that team moving on I think it actually will play an important role just in releasing the little bit of pressure that might have been building on him because we know what what can happen Ferrari can be quite sensitive to the Italian media Etc and I think it's just a nice little handy way for V to bat away any tiny accumulation of pressure and say yeah we do know what we're doing so I I think it's important from that perspective but yeah the strategy team I think's uh pretty good generally Scott question for you from James Godfrey moon during free practice commentary Nico rosberg explained that he had received an email from Alpine with a secondry offer to purchase the team implying that the process of selling the team is very much underway are rumors now starting to increase in The Paddock that this is a very real possibility in the short term uh I enjoyed that exchange I have heard it um I particularly enjoyed the kind of subplot to it which was niik rosberg not understanding how the media works and what's news newsworthy and interesting CU he seemed genuinely shocked that people seem to care about this there was also a very endearing moment within it where Kar chandok seemed to be explaining to Nico that you can access your email somewhere else other than at home on your laptop uh so I think what it really explained to us was that if it's true and I think we give rosberg the benefit of the doubt because he said it in a way where he wasn't trying to show off like he just thought he was saying something completely ordinary it sounds like what I Suspects is that there's some options to do some lowlevel investing what cuz what we don't know is you don't know whether that's you know new shares in Alpine you don't know if that's the US investment the Consortium trying to offload some of their shares or you know buy into the Consortium that owns some shares um does Alpine want to just offload like a few more percent of its own um because I suspect you know frankly if it's if rosberg's getting in on that it's going to you know that's really lowlevel stuff that's just trying to cuz rosberg's not the kind of person you go to if you're trying to offload your 75 and a half 76% whatever it is that Al Renault still owns of that team um I think it just confirms what we already know that Renault isn't 100% financially committed to that team um if it was it would Own 100% of that team and it doesn't um it's also binning off the engine program because it can't be B to fund that anymore I think they're just looking they're just looking around they'll take any kind of investment or you know support on the financial side that they can get I think that selling is a medium-term thing I don't think that's happening in the short term but I remain convinced that that is going to be the ultimate fate of that team and no amount of um how do I put this politely no no amount of um beligerant and overconfident statements to the contrary from senior Alpine figures will convince me otherwise yes I'd certainly agree with you on that of course there was a a very ChatOn staff strike wasn't there that there was some representatives from that at the track as well on on Friday so they're pushing back against the uh closure of the program and or the planned closure of the program they're going through the consultation period on uh to be a little bit more precise but yes so Alpine continuing to be in the news and they were not very good this weekend and gazley and okon seem to basically spend most of the weekend doing the same pace and they did different strategy approaches and they still ended up in the about the same place so I think we know what Alpine was capable of this weekend Samar estban Rivera says every when monzer comes around we hear about the importance of the toe on the long straights but the rest of the races it's all about dirty air what is the difference uh well I mean the toe is important at multiple races with long straights uh basically if the car in front punches a hole the car behind benefits from the hole being punched in that air the problem is when you go through corners you need air to generate downfalls you need air to flow above and below the car to generate downfalls otherwise you can't corner proberly without downfalls you would just fly off uh into the void so um yeah you need it's it's actually the same thing essentially as what I'm describing it's it's just airf flow but you would rather have less of it when you're going fast down a straight and you don't need to Corner you'd rather have more of it flowing over your corner uh over your car when you're going through a corner and yeah that's about it and we asan we'll see it make a big impact even at Singapore I mean there's a pretty long DRS Zone there so you know the toe can make a difference at many tracks Mo if not most on the calendar at some stage yeah it's just about where the bias is in terms of the corners to Strait and Monas at an extreme end of that Mark a question from Jack Aken actually it's two because the first question is pizza or pasta pasta every time oh very decisive that's a choice I wouldn't like to have to make alternating first plate second plate that's the way to do it the actual question after having seen the race how would you evaluate the recent Monza circuit changes uh it threw an interesting variable in it the uh smooth surface completely changed the uh Tire picture the flatter curbs meant that the uh the teams discovered you could run the cars considerably lower than in the past and therefore quite a lot stiffer to give better platform control and so there was quite a quite a lot of change going on in between Friday and Saturday and that mixed things up a little bit and yeah it was it was interesting so in terms of the effect it had on the actual racing we see a bit more gravel getting spread on the track uh which not not necessarily a good thing but um yeah you don't have the such severely car damaging uh curb so that's uh I think a fair exchange really yeah a few of the drivers didn't like the curb changes I must say I probably agree with them a bit particularly at a scari but yeah things move on don't they the final question I'll take from EDR gaming I'm planning to attend Monza next year to witness Hamilton in red with a toosi and wondered if you had any top tips or do kns for going to Monza looking forward to an ed straw soap boox section with his gripes about working at Monza yes my main gripe at Monza is just the the poor sign posting and the random changing of what routs you're allowed into the park and on two consecutive days I was angrily and very aggressively directed into pedestrian zones to drive down which I didn't think was very safe I did it because they were very angry direct to me so I think they can sharpen up a little bit on that so uh CH out but yeah top tips you have to be a little bit careful about taking tips to go uh uh to go to races from us because we don't have quite the same experience as people who buy uh the tickets I would say if you can get to monzo for the Italian Grand Prix do it it's it is a fantastic place the track is in in the big Royal Park so it's one of those things where it's quite important to know where you're going make sure you know what your entrances are how you're getting in and where you need to go once you're in it because the park is Big it's not just a park and Monza is filling 90% of it it's it's just a part of it so watch out for that and yeah just just enjoy because it is a a proper historic uh venue and yeah I'd thoroughly recommend it and incidentally the tickets for next year go on sale from Tuesday I was just informed so uh yeah if you want to have your choice of where to watch Tuesday is the day the um the one thing you've got to do if you get out there again I maybe worth reiterating Ed's point that be careful because we have a slightly different experience to others but I presume this isn't two off limits to someone that is going there and is going to have tickets getting out to the banking or going and seeing the old part of the track that that's that's got to be doable right am I I'm not drowning in my own privilege here with my media pass am I yes I believe you can access it you certainly could quite recently again I'm just being a little bit careful because yeah but try that's the point right like if you're going to if you're going to Monza go and see it because it's really like it yeah you can the cool really cool thing about Monza is that it's it's obviously so steeped in history and just simply being there breathing in the atmosphere getting any kind of glimpse of uh the podium ceremony especially if a Ferrari wins that is incredible but if you're going there and you can if you can plot a course to the banking that would definitely be on my recommendation yeah definitely well worth doing but yeah make sure you know where you're going and yeah do your research on where to say there's lots of hotels around the place of uh all sorts of quality and to suit all budgets so uh yeah uh look around for that but yeah I would say get on on on Tuesday so you can pick if you if you're going to get grand stand tickets where you'd like to watch um I was watching down at turn one not in the grand stand but just standing by the track there's some good views down there from Grand stands both on the inside and the outside of the track I know that and uh obviously you know parabolic is a good place to uh to watch but probably for that sort of advice it's worth also finding a few online sources and forums of people who've gone because they will have slightly better tips uh than than we do in that regard but yeah get to monz if you can it's it's a great place just make sure you know where you're going well thanks very much Scott Samar and Mark thanks to everyone who sent in questions like I say we will tackle more in the week we get loads in and we we do our best to get through all of them but we can't always unfortunately we've got a gap now to Baku but we're going to keep on podcasting keep on writing keep on doing YouTube videos there's going to be loads for you to work through so stay with us for everything you need to know from the world of Formula 1 [Music] [Applause] the athletic [Music]