Emergency Pod: BC United suspends campaign + BC Green Party leader Sonia Furstenau | Hotel Pacifico

hey folks it's our emergency podcast for hotel Pacifico that's the new emergency music that we just uh dialed up for today the big news that BC United and BC conservatives have decided to work together and avoid a vote split for the coming election I'll be joined here in the special emergency segment with my good friend Kim haad hi Kim hi Mike Kim was uh Kim and I were co-pilots of the premier's office uh way back in the good old days 2011 2012 and I can't think of anyone I'd rather uh share this supicious historical day than Kim but first uh a few Hotel Pacifico housekeeping matters this special segment is going to be it's being placed on top of our regularly scheduled programming that was about tow Dr today before we heard about the news conference and that is a one toone interview with Sonia firsto with myself and Sonia firsto I hope you stay around for that Sonia had a lot of interesting things to say and then following the first to know interview was our uh strategy site panel with BC tax fighter Jordan baitman and former Vancouver City councelor Andria Rhymer who were breaking down the first snow interview and other BC issues before we saw this coming so let me get to the main event here that's just happened uh we just literally watched the news conference of John rustad and Kevin Falcon and digesting it in real time and I'm going to start this off with a a eulogy for the BC Liberal Party and you know we've talked a bit on the podcast about the Big Bang of BC politics and uh I wrote about it last April that there are moments in BC politics where everything changes uh in terms of fundamental realignments of who the voters end up choosing to be their uh free enterprise Coalition that happened 1952 with the srds it happened 1975 when the soit re-energized themselves and brought liberals and conservatives back behind them it happened in 1991 with the BC liberals when they emerged to replace the sreds as the leaders of the free enterprise parties and while this has been happening in slow motion for the last year year and a half it's kind of official today that the BC conservatives are now that vehicle and uh we don't have to wait until October 19th to find out it's basically by BC United laying down its arms uh we are now entering a new era of BC politics in so far as the non-np Jess ketchum's non-np party he calls it uh is concerned and uh so in digesting that we have to look I have to reflect back on you know where we've come from and the era that is ending officially here today or shortly at when all this gets executed for me it started on Halloween day 1987 when a man named Gordon Wilson was acclaimed as leader of the BC Li party at the then called Delta River in in Richmond BC um with a fairly low energy um low not well attended convention uh chosing a pig farmer and college instructor from seashell to lead a party that no one had any hopes for other than the people in that room four years later Gordon Wilson had led the BC liberals to remarkable comeback and official opposition uh he gave way way two years later to Gordon Campbell who built the modern day BC Liberal Party and led it for 18 years and led it to ultimately LED it to election in 2001 it led to Christy Clark breathing new life into the BC Liberal Party and extending its life in government for six years but towards the end of uh its time in government uh those inexurable forces of change started to to seep in uh the creeping disease of government itis um the increasing hunger of the opposition to do whatever it takes to win all those things conspired to lead to by the narrowest of margins a change in government in 2017 it couldn't have been any closer but yet it happened and two successive leaders now failed in their quest to revive the BC liberals and bring it back to Power and it's led us to today where basically the party will no longer feel candidates at least for this election there's a a book by Barbara tuckman uh noted historian called the march of folly which is about the pursuit of policies that are contrary to that organization's or government's own interests and it's always struck me that in a way the BC Liberal Party uh resembled that in his later years failure to stay a stay a pace of growing populations failure to recognize the changing circumstances of British Columbia failure to renew failure to uh bring in new blood replenish itself in a way that the Alberta conservatives were able to do for many years to continually reinvent themselves and and provide a different look and the BC liberals uh were a little too complacent uh a little too resistant to change a little too comfortable and eventually it led to a vacuum and a scrappier hungrier group of the conservatives came came up and challenged them and through circumstances uh much at the hand of the BC liberals themselves by changing the name of the party um has led to this moment today now I'd like to say a personal message to the young people and the Grassroots supporters of BC United who were asked to follow the decisions of leadership over the years and loyally did so even when those decisions didn't turn out to be the right ones this isn't on you uh you've worked hard you're the lifeblood of the party for many of you young people especially who worked in staff positions or work in staff positions today wondering about your future uh this is just one step in the political cycle there will be electoral wins ahead of you there will be electoral success ahead of you if that's what you want to do my first campaign was 1984 for the Liberal Party of Canada it was a blood bath we're covered in our own blood yet years later liberals were in power provincially liberals were in power federally and we all get our shot sooner or later so chin up and uh you may find your place in this new Coalition you may not want to but you have talents and you will take them elsewhere and you'll do just fine uh I and I think of people like uh my my good friend Lindsay cot who's the executive director of of uh BC United and it's a very tough day for her and uh she is exceptional and uh I know that she she will she'll have many options wherever she decides to do but I think of people like Lindsay who was an integral part of the BC liberal successes in the past but is loyally remained on the job through thick and thin and that politics you we've all been there those of us who've been around a long time anyways so we're what now we we may now be approaching Clarity we may now be reaching that moment where it's a binary fight other than the greens between the NDP and the conservatives and did we think we were going to get there I had kind of thought we weren't actually I thought there was a lot of discussions in the spring I I'm surprised today that this actually got pulled off but yet it did and it's recognizing reality I think in the BC United side of things but it's uh not going to come out come without some collateral damage there's going to be a lot of people who are hurt and who will not want to follow this direction and you may uh hear in the days ahead people BC United people wanting to fight on or BC United people going to uh the NDP are BC United people even going to the greens uh it's a shakeup a lots a lot of unpredictable things are going to happen but the fundamental reality of BC United pulling back is not is has to be good news for the conservatives and troubl news for the NDP at least today we'll see what the days ahead look like lots of questions we'll talk about with Kim here in a moment who's coming who's going they didn't say anything today about who those candidates are going to be in fact they said it might be weeks before they announce who the candidates are going to be it's going to create a ton of uncertainty for BC United candidates if they're included a part of the team but BC conservative candidates looking over their shoulder so that's that's a big question I have this is really late in the process most importantly what are voters going to make of this uh are they going to be happy are they going to be turned off by a quote quote back room deal um we're in Uncharted Territory here and all of this in the context of yes a competitive election but a leader a premier of The Province who actually people like he has net positive numbers better numbers than John rustad so there there's an uphill climb notwithstanding this vote split issue seemingly being resolved to still overtake uh Mr eie and we have I even see any negative ads yet so quite a day BC politics never dull I feel like uh my life is uh changed somewhat even though I haven't been active for a number of years I was at 18-year-old geek at the Halloween leadership convention in 1987 I was in The Green Room in 1991 during the leaders debate when Gordon Wilson was doing his thing to make the Breakthrough I had heartbreak in 9 6 I felt the relief not the joy the relief of winning in 2001 and I had with Cam here the multiple coronaries of uh Christy Clark's uh leadership campaign and and uh government experience and the last ditch gas to stay in power as part of negotiating team on the confidence boote 20 30 years of my life tied tiing with the BC L part so how do I feel today I feel it's it's politics it's the life and death it's a it's a life cycle and nothing can be the same forever there must be renewal we try to shape that but a new group and they're is going to come is come forward with their own theory of life and they're going to get their shot now and here we go so Kim thanks Mike what the hell I don't know I mean I I will say that I think you've been involved for more than 30 years because it was 28 years ago this year that I moved to BC in September of 1996 and that October I met Christy Clark and so I've been involved now in the BC liberals for almost 28 years so I think it's been more than 30 for you but you know the first thing I think about today is the candidates that have put their professional and personal lives on hold um you know those that are elected have a job and they'll continue working in that and and and through the process that that elected officials uh have the opportunity to do but those candidates who have put their professional and personal lives on hold and today many of them found out this news by seeing it first on on social media and and so I I want to take a moment to thank all those folks for being willing to put their name forward in what is a really complex political environment and offering themselves up because they're doing it for really good reasons they're motivated to improve their their Province and their community so I just want to say a big thank you to them and that while I've never put my name on the ballot I do know that this is a really tough day neither of I we're two big chickens right here but uh but yeah you know some be United candies just become candidates but others have been working hard for over a year raising money trying to Buck their teams up to saying look I just got to hang in there and so today is a you know definitely a splash of cold water in their faces that's for sure yet some may carry on I assume a minority of them like a handful or I no idea didn't speculate on how many BC United counties might become conservative counties but I can't imagine it's going to be easy given the conservatives already nominated 80 plus yeah exactly and I think you know that's where there's going to be a ton of uncertainty both for the BC United caucus members and for the BC United candidates especially at those in writings where maybe there's already a BC conservative now MLA because they've left the BC United already or because they're running against someone that has now invested their time in being a BC United candidate and so it it's it's it's probably good that uh John rustad and Kevin Falcon didn't try and predict the future too much today but there's going to be a lot of open questions over the and I was shocked to hear next few weeks because I do think they're going to need to handle this really quite quickly in the next few or it's going to get away from them candidates have to make some of their own life decisions as to the elected caucus members from from the BC well they're not going to be able to just talk about in a vacuum people are going to react and um you know there's a number of writings I can think of where there's a strong BC United candidate whether it's incumbent or not and the conservative you know is going to be like let's take care of North corly Oaks um she's a formidable MLA but there's a conservative running hard in that writing um yeah you know I thought maybe four months ago five months ago um Paulie Anders thinking but that kind of a joint runoff process or something that just let people settle it in the writing by a joint nomination meeting might be a potential way to go but there's no time for that it's um now it's just a stroke of the Penn by the leader as to who the candidate's going to be yeah you look at how fast we're seeing things move in the US for an election that's in November this one's in October and it happened later and so it is going to be really interesting to see how folks rally and respond and it's going to be interesting to see what happens in the polls right the BC United has been polling pretty low pretty sad you're you're a pollster you're probably watching it closer than me um but what does it look like now when you take the BC United out of that calculation and I think you suggested this in your opening editorial a bit too how many people actually start looking at the at the bcnp because there is kind of a gaping hole in the middle of British Columbia politics now and I think that's something that people are going to be discussing over the next little while and is is John Russ and the conservatives going to continue to moderate and be that broader free enterprise Coalition that the BC liberals were under Gordon Campbell and Christy Clark or are are the NDP going to start looking towards the center and really trying to find those people that are still voting Federal liberal or more more inclined to vote Federal liberal see themselves in the center believe in climate change are very concerned about you know how our children are treated in in schools and that just may not find political alignment with some of the policies of the BC United party there's a hole there and an opportunity for both parties if they want to fill it yeah and you know it's it's two things it's where voters go it's also where maybe activists go as well who actually make more of a difference uh either through their endorsements through their hard work through their money all those things and um you know I wonder about the greens like I think this is probably good news to the greens might give them a couple extra points in the popular vote um because we saw this in 2017 people that were just a little burnt out by BC liberals and 2020 uh just couldn't go NDP the greens were a little protest vote St you know holding pen for them but uh probably in the city especially um some some kind of Centrist who just can't stomach the conservatives will just go indp for sure and I think that'll be based on local candidates and based on policies uh you know I've been talking to lots of people today I'm sure like uh like me your phone blew up with people trying to say well what what am I going to do and and many of those were not sure what they were going to do in the BC United BC conservative uh decision-making process but now that it's now that it's down to really the BC conservatives the NDP and as you say you know maybe maybe some folks will go to the greens it's it's not an easy decision for a lot of cess voters to to know where they're going to be and and even some Central right center right people who have uh really been invested in in the BC liberals haven't been sure about the BC United and are trying to figure out where they go today so makes the election more interesting probably not a great day for David Eevee for Premier Eevee right yeah you know it's just you never quite know how these things actually are going to turn out right some things that look I mean look remember when uh Daniel Smith crossed the Florida JY Prentice uh in what was that 2012 and there was like oh my God Prince is going to win like 9 95% of the seats and he ends up losing the election because the whole thing backfired on him I'm not suggesting this as a yeah the same thing the point I'm making is it's just unexpected consequences sometimes or maybe the momentum is greater than we than we might suspect as well because some British Columbians might be like who is this rust dead guy is he really the guy now okay let's get behind him well and I think we always find as we get closer to BC elections and we'll find this as we get out of the summer and and into the fall and into the core of the election period people start to tune in and many of them have probably not even thought about who the provincial candidates are sometimes we get that voter confusion between the federal and provincial parties I think that's happening somewhat on the conservative side rustad has benefited from some of Pier pf's popularity for sure will that continue as as people actually start tuning into the fact that there's an ABC election this fall and start thinking about who they're going to vote for in their own writings I mean let's let's take a second just on John rustad and uh you and I both worked with him in government uh he was uh minister of indigenous relations uh for a good stint maybe four years years or so uh and a private member before that took him a while to get his shot in cabinet he didn't get it under Gordon Campbell but he got it under chrisy Clark eventually and um you know I think no one would have had it on their bingo card that John rustad himself would ever have leadership aspirations he had a couple chances to run for leader uh after Christy Clark left the first time and then after Andrew Wilkinson left and he chose not to and back delis Ross the latter time yet here he is today uh uh one of two men who are V for premier of The Province either him or David Eevee will be Premier after October 19th what a remarkable rise for him uh through a whole range of things uh y temper tantrum uh through uh you know just I it had enough and didn't want to be constrained anymore and got kicked out of caucus and then it's like I'll show them and then putting his head down and building the BC conservative party and he did the work well the putting his head down and doing the work is the part that doesn't surprise me right you know I will say one of my most memorable moments with John rustad was when Christie and I were traveling the province during her leadership campaign and we were stranded because our transportation had Frozen up in the cold of traveling British Columbia in the north you know in the North in February and John rusted who was supporting another candidate came and picked us up and drove us to his writing and introduced Christie in one of the most kindest thoughtful introductions we heard especially from someone who wasn't supporting her and then you know I remember when when christe called him and brought him in to meet with her and and invited her him to be in her cabinet I don't know if there was a happier person in British Columbia at that time and then John worked really hard at it and so he worked hard to be a good uh cabinet minister he worked hard to be a pragmatic part of the caucus and he was always a very kind person to work with um you know certainly there's been other experiences I think other folks have had but um it doesn't surprise me that he's put in the work at all well he's been underestimated and which is a great position to be in as a politician and he's still not well known by British Columbians still though an increasing number are becoming aware of him his leadership numbers are okay not great um but not uh you know he's got room to grow let's put it that way um the main accomplishment though is he's gone out and he's he's put together this team and he's eclipsed the BC United and they just never thought he could do it and never thought he get to this point and you know he he's look look everybody knows if he jumped into the BC you know ABC party it never would have gone anywhere been like 1% of the polls but the things got the name conservative and he seized it and somebody was going to and he did and he made the more of it more out of it than anybody has since 1928 Simon Fraser told me well there you go always trust Mike McDonald for BR British Columbia history lesson and now the microscope though is going to be on him in an even greater way and on his candidates in an even greater way and so it'll be interesting to see what happens in in the next few weeks on you know I think there's been lots of questions about their candidate vetting process there's there was a question today about his stance on climate change in the presser and and John russed avoided answering the question which I thought was interest avoided it yeah um he's gonna have to answer that question he's going to answer have to answer it several times over over between now and an election day and so so you know as that scrutiny increases and we get out of the summer quiet period it's it's going to be interesting to see what that means for for this party and and certainly for for Premier e and and the NDP as well there's lots of you know um questions out there about what a what a reelected eie government looks like and and John rustad United with the BC United party folks are going to continue to ask those questions now that they're going to stop fighting with each other so just looking over my not notes of this press conference that happened in the last hour uh though some of the things that Falcon did say that are that bear repeating here um the board of directors of the party endorsed it so he's got that in place um he briefed the caucus and candidates and they some were not happy campers but he to Kevin's credit he was taking that on the chin himself yes one thing I found interesting is he was in speaking through the press conference to the caucus and the party workers and so forth he said he will have quote unquote line of sight into a range of areas on the conservative campaign so you know the the idea that um he was relinquishing um his seed and his leadership and going to just fade off into the backd background is not necessarily the case now it's that he claims he's G he's going to influence it he is going to be uh I don't know if partner is the right word but a collaborator or whatever the word is he's going to be involved and he's going to be advocating for things and you know there's a tension there as to for rustad is he has this opportunity to do a reset on a few things saying because of the deal and he has a chance to deal with some of the candidates on this basis as well and kind of like wipe the Slate clean in a few cases on the other hand he's got his own stakeholders within the conservatives are like why are you giving all this power over to Beast United they're the enemy so he's gonna be walking a tight rope right yeah I think that's true and it's interesting because I didn't pick up on that Nuance in the press conference so I'm glad you did but remember you know remember uh you know you and I have both been involved in politics for a long time what we say at a press conference on a day like today what actually happens as the next few weeks unfold and how much influence Kevin Falcon and and others from the BC United that stayed till the very end uh have is is still to be seen right um that that there may be something there and there may actually not be much it may be a message that makes uh you know gives an opportunity for Kevin to say that today but how much influence he's going to have over the over the BC conservatives it's hard to tell now people that are close to Kevin and that worked for the BC United to until the last few weeks are now there they're working at the staff level in in several cases and uh so there is going to be some some crossover and and ultimately some learnings that the BC conservatives didn't have that now they'll have some power of all the history that you outlined at the beginning of of the BC United and before that the BC Liberal Party working in writings across this province and so it'll be interesting to see how that all unfolds I think yeah well um I thought obviously uh not the press conference Kevin Falcon wanted to have I thought he was I was actually struck by how collegial uh he and John were yes given the nasty words have been exchanged over the last year and I gathered there had been a fairly extensive uh negotiating session last night according to Kevin on the news conference and he was quite gracious in the news conference so um you know and probably you know we've you and I have both known Kevin a long time y I went to University with him uh back in the 1700s and uh he you know we've crisscrossed in politics you know obviously different leadership campaign at one point and you know he was finance minister to Christie and so the a lot a lot of water's gone under the bridge a lot of it positive some of it challenging sometimes but a lot of respect for him and understanding how difficult a day like this would be for him so I thought he handled it very graciously and this you know there's still a devil in the details here but it's it's tough for any politician to give up their dream to be in his case premier of The Province and today was the the end of the road for him on that and that's that's a tough thing and I I you know we can canvas obviously all the decisions that were made in the last year and a half that led that were definitely maybe well-intentioned but definitely were political disasters the the Rebrand obviously but there's still a Humanity there and he you know he had a contribution to make he gave it his best shot and uh at least today he was I thought very gracious in how he is trying to bring it to a resolution well and I think and I think he's really sincere when he talks about his daughters and you know you and I remember when he decided not to run again with Christie and uh that was about what he said today that you know they were pregnant with their second child and and awaiting that and and really shifting his priorities and I have no doubt I haven't talked to Kevin in in quite a while but I have no doubt that he's very sincere that he got back into it because of it because he wanted to build a better future for his children he's clearly um Pol a person motivated by public service and and uh it's it's a big deal to to step aside and decide that he himself is not running now right that's a that's a big change from yesterday that that Kevin is also stepping aside in a writing that maybe he could have held I mean it'll be interesting to see what happens in Vancouver colana now yeah well uh Kim uh thank you for joining this emergency edition of Hotel Pacifico Kade and Jeff have obviously these guys have been on vacation for at least three months it seems and they're missing all the fun but I'm glad you could help me uh enjoy or I don't know if enjoy but uh commemorate this day marking an end for us as you know historic DC liberals that there's a new chapter has been flipped over so thank you for having me can't think of anyone i' would rather have with me more than you Kim so thank you I know and if only I was in town so that we could uh talk more over over a drink this evening but we'll do that soon thanks we'll we'll do that soon thanks Kim and for our listeners stay with us uh you're about to hear a one-onone interview with Sonia first to know and later on even more political commentary you've reached Hotel Pacifico your five-star destination for BC politicos press four for room service press the star key for your hosts Mike McDonald and Kate Hammer welcome back guests I'm flying solo again this week Kate continues to recharge her batteries I hear her batteries are at about 87% right now and they will be fully charged by next week I'm hoping that she's using Renewable Power to recharge her batteries given our guest today later and that Jeff mags uh you know that guy has a lot of Gull that would be seagulls and other sort of gulls who are communing with him on his rain shadowed Island hidey-hole when he's back he will regail us about the health benefits of guano later on in strategy Suite I'll be joined by two retired local government counselors who are definitely unretired from political commentary former city of Vancouver councelor Andrea Rhymer Cashes in her reward points for a second stay at hotel Pacifico while Langley's tax scrapping Jordan baitman as valade as wood panel Suburban station wagon with the rear-facing seats to join us as well but first it's my honor to welcome our first leader to Hotel Pacifico Sonia first Ando of the BC Green Party of the four leaders contesting this upcoming election Sonia has the longest tenure in fact she is the only leader to have experience leading her party in a general election campaign she was first elected to office in 2017 from the cin Valley relieving the NDP of one of their seats and was was reelected in 2020 since the last election the riding boundaries have been redrawn with her riding of seven years split into two she decided to contest a riding further a field in Beacon Hill in Victoria and as challenging NDP cabinet minister Grace lur but who is Sonia first to know her father came to Canada from East Germany as a refugee in the 1950s born in Edmonton she studied at juvic while juggling Parenthood as a single mom she became a teacher taught in Victoria before heading over the malahat to the cin Valley where she taught in shaigan Lake and emerged as a community activist fighting a contaminated soil site she was also elected as a director on the couchin Valley Regional District then in 2017 she defied the odds and to become tied with Adam Olsen the second green MLA ever elected in BC I hope I got all that right factually Sonia welcome to Hotel Pacifico thanks Mike yeah you got it great if I can add one thing I think there's a lot about my dad uh history my mom's side of the family my grandmother was born on satna island the turn of C born on SATA yeah so if anybody goes to paino or pain Road or Breezy Bay uh my grandmother was born in the in the home that is now Breezy Bay bed and breakfast and uh my grandfather uh grew up in Victoria uh on my mom's side actually two houses from our house in Fairfield uh and so they met in the 1920s at Craig D Castle when it was uh Victoria College fell in love uh got married uh became teachers went off to Stuart BC and then settled in kog where my mom grew up wow that's a lot of uh you covered a lot of geographical basis there and I wonder how many people have actually been born on satna island over the years probably uh it's not a long list no no not not a lot um and uh she was uh she was an amazing character I always wear her pendant people might notice I always have this pendant on this was hers it was um from the Carver Dennis huse um and uh I love these pictures of my grand in the 40s wearing pants and carrying a glass of rye and smoking a cigarette and standing on fishing boats um and sort of with this defiant look in her face like I just dare you but I also learned recently that my grandfather Ted Richardson he was the principal at komok high school and uh he was very good friends with Chief Martin and uh uh one of the things that they arranged was for kids uh to come to kok's high school so they didn't go into residential schools and one of those kids was Bill Wilson who was oh yes my uncle Doug's best friend um M jod Wilson rael's father right so I have these uh you know there's the the the German background on my dad's side and then there's this deep British Columbia background on my mom's side and our son now is at UVC so his Grand both of his grandfathers both of his parents also attended U um or Victoria College as it was before it was ubic so he's third generation deep down the South Island yeah so uh you're a teacher yeah how would your students uh have described you as a teacher I just ran into one of my students from uh 15 years ago I taught at colquitz a grade eight class and she she was serving coffee at a local coffee shop and she said oh it's so nice to see you miss first to now and I was like Sonia it's just Sonia um and she said that she and a group of uh students from that year are still friends and when they get together they talk about grade eight that that was the year for them that really they loved um they loved school that year they learned a lot uh I've maintained a lot of relationships with my students over the years and watch them grow up and become parents and move into careers um I prioritized making my classroom feel like a really safe place and so I invested in those early weeks of the school year into the kids really getting to know me me really getting to know them them getting to know each other and so we built this real Community feeling in our classroom and what I found was once that was in place they could learn anything and they were they were just so capable of learning uh another time I had a student come into my history class my grade 12 history class a cup of tea and she said I feel like I'm walking into home when I walk into your class like it feels like home and so I've I I take the lessons that I learned as a teacher and I apply them to my job as a politician and a leader of a party and I ask the question are we succeeding at ensuring that people in this province feel safe that they feel secure that they feel like they can take risks that they can take chances they can uh go and study or maybe open a business or uh have a child or uh consider a career change or consider a change in the relationship um and I think what we see right now is that a lot of people don't feel that sense of security and safety and when we have people who feel less secure than we see less less risk taking less uh you know sort of Leaping into new things and we see people kind of their worlds shrink a little bit it's harder to think about big issues it's harder to think about the future or how do we build stronger communities when you feel insecure in your own life and I think that that is the task of government is to ensure that people feel safe and secure well I do want to provide you given that we're a month away from the election starting some space here to um maybe start start off here with the elevator pitch right uh you know imagining I'm a I walk into uh walk into your office and say I'm an undecided voter um what's your what's the elevator pitch for this coming election for you and the greens you know it's a little different for me as the leader of the party than it is for me as the candidate in in Victoria Beacon Hill so I'm going to start as leader of the party and the pitch uh that I'm making to voters is that in BC we've had almost always this long-standing two-party system we've had a party on the right and a party on the left you know and whatever name those parties exist under that's basically the the The Duality we've had in BC and what we often see is the parties reacting to each other so uh the more rightwing parties will cut taxes and cut services and then the NDP will come in and spend a lot of money but not really restore or uh deliver on those services and then we swing back to the other side and so the these swings that we've had in BC have gotten us to exactly where we are today this feeling of insecurity this sense that government isn't delivering the the basic services that it should be delivering but it's spending a lot of money the greens are a balance to that seesaw of BC politics we are long-term thinkers we are solution oriented we are collaborators we work across party lines we work across jurisdictions and we focus on how do we get a government to deliver what people should absolutely expect of that government which is that sense of security that sense of reliability that those whether it's health care I'm going to have primary care I'm going to have emergency health care whether it's infrastructure affordable housing thriving public education uh Mental Health Services social services that don't let people fall through the cracks greens focus on how do we get these outcomes uh what do we need to measure to get there and how do we do it it efficiently and effectively and we are the antidote to this back and forth that BC has been cursed with forever how will you contend with that age-old um problem for parties coming in into the campaign in say third place uh that uh you know a vote for the greens may elect a conservative in a writing certainly the NDP May deploy that argument against uh you or your candidates what your antidote for that yeah I'll say a couple things one only three people have ever been elected as greens so it's it's it's a steep climb to get elected as a green but the way that we have succeeded is to demonstrate to people that you're actually voting for something BC often elections come down to I'm voting against this party or I'm voting against that party um when people have something to vote for what we've seen historically is the highest voter turnout in writings that elect greens and um from my experience a couple weeks ago going back and and launching Cami lockwoods campaign in cin um we had over a hundred people show up uh we had a a fantastic fundraising event for Cami raised twice as much money as we thought we would and I was really moved by uh this crowd of over 100 people standing up and giving me a standing ovation because they felt served um I I think it's it's very tiresome to say that a writing is NDP or conservative or liberal or whatever you know iteration of this writings belong to the people and what is happening in election is you are electing the person that you want to represent you in the legislature and that's why you know at a local level my pitch is I can promise a couple things I am hardworking I am responsive and I am really committed to getting outcomes for my writing and I can prove that by what we have seen in cin for the last seven years historic Investments and uh the amount of attention that cin has received from the provincial and federal governments in the last seven years demonstrates the value of having a green MLA well your three green mlaas that have been elected uh since 2013 have represented constituencies on Vancouver Island or Gulf vience um you almost elected yeah an MLA in West vancou Sky last election I think it was like 60 votes maybe yeah um what are you thinking this time in terms of the geography of your opportunity and and the type of order that you think you can appeal uh where do you think they're coming from yeah it's one funny story about Jeremy valat who it was 60 votes uh in the mailin ballot that that changed that on Election night he won um and then it was the mailin ballots that changed that outcome by 60 votes there are people in West feny dis Sky who still think that Jeremy is the MLA and have approached him for uh help and service um and so we're going to uh really aim to get that writing over the line that's a writing that we are are really feeling strong and confident Jeremy's been working hard has a great team um in other writings and the other people that were attracting arzen hamir up in uh Courtney kok has been running an incredibly strong campaign has uh somewhere in the neighborhood of 150 active volunteers on her campaign is talking to thousands and thousands of people um and I think the what we are able to demonstrate is how hard we will work to get elected which means means that we will work hard after we're elected and I think it's people who are dissatisfied with the NDP um but also people who recognize that simple answers uh slogans are not going to get us out of the crisis that we're in so saying we're going to be tough on crime or climate change isn't a serious crisis and we don't have to pay attention to it this is what we're hearing from the BC conservatives I think a lot lot of people are recognizing that signals that this is a party and a leader who aren't going to take these issues seriously and get to the root causes and really be there to prevent um and avoid the crisis that we are just trapped in and that cost us so much money what happens if uh we end up in a bit of a nailbiter election and you find yourself similar to 2017 in a in a position of uh balance of power uh would you would you um approach it differently or the same way as the last time have you thought about that at all believe me Mike I've thought about it a lot um I'm not I'm not the just the only leader that is uh you know coming into this election for the second time I'm I'm the um I'm the only leader that was in any way involved in those negotiations in 2017 that led to the confidence and Supply agreement and uh I'm a teacher and I'm a thinker and I've reflected a lot on uh that process and I think the orientation that I have now is how do we ensure that the conversations that happen if we're back in a minority and in a as Adam always called it a balance of responsibility position how do we put people at the very center of those convers ation and I think in a lot of ways in 2017 it had been over 50 years since there had been a minority government in BC um there wasn't anybody that had experience you know real lived experience uh involved in that and I think a lot of it came down to um parties like who's whose agenda whose ideas whose whose Vision are we talking about and I think right now what we need to do as politicians all of us is ask ourselves how do we ensure that we're serving the people of BC and from my point of view and I think you know the difference between a minority NDP government and a majority NDP government is Stark it's been Stark um once they had their majority the NDP became incredibly secretive changed made changes to the Freedom of Information legislation put a price on accessing information have been uh called the most secretive government in Canada a kind of unwillingness to be held accountable for both their promises and uh what they're delivering and not delivering I think we have to put that uh kind of democratic principles of transparency accountability to people and to the public but also how do we get the public more engaged in um in the work of governing uh in between elections and I think a lot of people feel kind of disillusioned and dejected by the state of politics in a lot of ways and as an example if you look at the uh report that came out on the Parliamentary culture that uh Elanor sturko Mabel Elmore and I were part of that working group and uh looking at having Regional caucuses so having mlas work together across party lines to better represent their regions of BC um looking at having um public members of parliamentary committees uh we see examples of this in places like West Belgium where they have a permanent citizens assembly as part of their legislature and that has resulted in less partisanship and more cooperation across party lines I have been saying this for years Mike and I I believe it with every fiber of my body we are in really serious times and the crisis that we face right now are um not the the challenges of the 20th century when we had a lot of certainty and predictability uh we have an uncertain and unpredictable climate uh we have social issues uh we have deepening inequality which we know undermines social stability um we have so much much deep poverty in our communities uh and concentration of wealth into fewer and fewer hands both in Canada and around the world we need to approach these serious times and these serious crisis with a much more um responsible way of looking at governing and governance and to do that I think having the public as a more active participating more actively ensures that we are reminded who we serve when we're elected we don't serve our parties uh we serve the public and that has to be at the center of everything so if we're back in a minority um I'm uh I'm very focused on how do we make government more responsive more accountable more transparent and a better servant to the people of BC well you mentioned that the NDP majority behaved much differently than the NDP minority but looking to the other side of the aisle do you feel that you could work with the conservatives if they were at the upper hand in a minority situation uh do you see um the basis for cooperation uh or is it like I'll cross that bridge when I get there yeah I I you know I I think I I have learned that um you can't just categorize people as this or that as as right and wrong good and bad all this kind of stuff this is the tiresome thing about BC politics my challenge with the conservative caucus um in the in the last legislative session was that they showed up to question period they often did something you know inflammatory that they would put out on social media kind of Rage farming or get people angry or upset and then they left the building um I John rustad participated in one bill debate uh and I think between banman and rustad they participated in two estimates debates so you compare that to Adam and I another twers caucus uh between us uh 17 estimates debates 16 Bill debates and we introduced 11 private members bills we worked we worked in the legislature on behalf of our constituents and uh on behalf of the province and so for me um what I am keen on is being at a table with people who are taking the job seriously and who take the the responsibility of governing and representation really seriously and to move past the the political grandstanding and focus on how are we going to solve these very serious problems that people are faced with in BC right now well you're wearing two hats as a parliamentary leader for your party in the house and you've just talked about how you put a priority on that um but you're also the party leader and you you've had to you know lead the flock across the province and with 93 writings now um how have you felt how that that that that tension that exist between those two roles because you can only be in one place at one time and you know I've noticed that the greens um you know you don't have as many candidates uh nominated at this point um have you felt like you've been playing catchup on this or is this part of the kind of the overall plan yeah you know we're we're small and uh and when when you have uh mlas like Adam and me who are going to insist on doing our job in the legis and insist on doing our jobs in the constituencies it means that um we're divided and I've always for the last four years I've I've described my life as having three full-time jobs um my MLA job in my constituent uh my constituency the the job in the legislature and then the job as party leader and those jobs really have three entirely different teams attached to them my my constituency team our caucus team team and then the party team and it's in the last uh few months since the end of the legislative session that I've really shifted a lot of my time and energy over to the party team and I'm really uh so excited about the team that we've built here and the capacity that we have here and yeah we got a slower start to this campaign than I would have liked I would have liked us to be further ahead than we are right now but um we have seven 75% of writings we either have candidates in place or we are uh moving candidates through the nomination process so% 75% so we're down to the last couple dozen I think it's 22 writings that we are still working on uh prospects in I'm trying to do my math here were you a math teacher as well because you could help me out here 71 out of 93 so you're expecting to have at least 70 candidates on the ballot yeah at the very least and I feel like that's breaking news here yeah we we've always aimed we've always aimed to have candidates and everybody because we always get messages people I'm so upset I couldn't vote green um uh and we uh the the extraordinary uh field team here at the BC green party literally it is uh four people um have just been working day and night to get candidates through the process and uh get us to the place where we are as close as we can be to a full Sate and I'm uh I'm excited that we will be able to announce these candidates in the weeks to come um in big batches and any big surprises of uh you know notables there's there's one I'm not going to spill the beans just yet um there's one that I'm very excited about but but uh you know notable candidates already are the deputy leader Dr Lisa running in Oak Bay Gordon Head a riding that has elected a green twice and so that's an exciting one for us Camille Curry who ran the BC Healthcare matters everyone deserves a family doctor campaign um and uh of course Jeremy valat herir Nicole Charwood out in uh coutney she's been working for over a year on her campaign and we don't get elected by accident ever it's it's there are people in the legislature who got elected by accident who had you know no expectation they would be there and found themselves in the legislature uh that doesn't happen for greens and uh it takes a lot of hard work but Richard jman's publishing his most interesting ridings list uh I don't know where he's at right now he started with number 93 and worked his way down okay I got to think your riding and the West vancou seeda Sky should be top 10 um yeah West Vancouver seeda Sky because I think potentially an interesting four-way race there um NP candidate strong conservatives have a notable candidate BC United hold the seat and they haven't nominated anybody yet um but you're writing of course um taking on an NDP cabinet minister I noticed the conservative candid has been banging away on social media and other places too as well mounting more of an aggressive campaign than the BC liberals would have in recent times so both of those I think there's a lot of moving Parts going on yeah it I you know I can promise one thing um we don't make politics more dull we you know insert greens it gets more interesting right and and that comes back to that two-party system two-party systems aren't very interesting um but uh we have for the first time really four parties that are actively engaged in this election and I think that's good that's good for democracy it's good for voters to have that choice here in Victoria Beacon Hill uh we do what we have to do I have um I think at last count 140 volunteers that are engaged we've knocked on almost every door once we're getting around to the second round of canvasing here I spend my afternoons uh knocking on doors and talking to people uh our campaign office on on Forest trade is just a hive of joy and activity um and I have always approach campaigns as Community Building exercises we are we are doing the work that needs to be done all the time which is Connecting People in communities making communities stronger um and for me if there's joy then I know we're on the right track and there's a lot of Joy right now we are having lot of fun so who's uh who's taken on the role of of campaign manager for the provincial campaign who are your who's in your back room there yeah so uh there's there's a few people um teamwork uh greens is uh is key for us so Adam olon is the campaign chair okay and he's really overseeing a lot of the communication side of the campaign Adam is a gifted Communicator um as people have seen for the last seven years and has of course a depth of understanding and expertise in all things and so that is invaluable to have Adam in that role and then on our field side we have Moren baly from Ontario she just successfully ran um Ashlin Clancy's byelection and Ashlin won in as a green in Ontario in the byelection not aing single poll had Ashlin in a winning position and she got more votes than all of the other candidates combined uh which is a fancy way of saying she got more than half the votes um but it sounds it sounds better to say it the first way um and uh and again uh it's it's not a super secret formula for how greens get elected it it really is talking to thousands and thousands of people and giving them the opportunity to vote for something uh that inspires them I think politics should be inspiring I think it should be hopeful I think it should be fun uh we're seeing that arrive in the US presidential campaign right now and and the relief that people I think are feeling that um we don't have to have politics that is about uh being the nastiest uh person on the on the screen we can have politics that talks about the future that we want to build shape together and for me that's always been what's motivated me I can see you know I I look back to the shaigan the shaigan days and the landfill uh the fight to get that permit revoked and it was oriented to the Future that we wanted for shaigan Lake it was a future where we knew we had clean water it was a future where we knew that our kids could have a beautiful Lake to swim in and that's how I've approached politics ever since I can see uh a BC where we have community health centers in every community and you don't have to worry about do I get to see a family doctor or a primary caregiver I I'm attached I'm attached to my community health center and I know that whatever my health needs are today I'm I'm I'm in the right place I can see a future where we aren't subsidizing uh a buing fossil fuel industry uh we are investing in a clean energy economy that builds long-term jobs in communities around the province that means that uh we we extricate ourselves from a boom and bust economy which is harmful in the boom and it's harmful in the bust um and we move to an economy that actually ensures that we get to that place of security predictability certainty that I was talking about at the beginning I can see a future I can see an education system where kids are talking about the safety uh and uh security they feel at school that they feel that they are valued when we send kids to schools right now that are rundown that don't have enough EAS or teachers that don't have school counselors or psychologists we are sending the message to kids right now that you know you don't you just don't really matter that much to us like you don't matter enough for us to make the investment so that you spend your days in a beautiful thriving environment and I think that that is one of the the greatest failures of a society that has an $89 billion budget we're almost on par with uh per capita with Denmark as a province and that Denmark that's their military and foreign aid spending in there too and we aren't delivering like uh spectacular public transit and incredible public education and a Public Health Care system that is meeting the needs all of that is possible Mike and it it you know I often say toss the table I'm so frustrated and angry and disappointed uh that we have successive governments that say oh we're going to do all these things so you think the money is there is just not being spent properly the money is there the money what's what's the problem then what's why what's your analysis of where the NDP are blowing it I think it's where you spend the money so choosing to prop up the the fossil fuel industry I think is a terrible mistake to make in the 2020s the International Energy agency is is uh itself saying do not invest in more fossil fuel infrastructure it is you are going to have stranded assets so to pour billions of dollars of subsidies to prop up uh an LG industry uh that really is a deadend road I think is terrible we should be investing in uh building a clean energy infrastructure across the province I think education is an investment that we should take seriously and when we have not only a kind of scarcity public education system but also it's harder and harder for young people to afford to go to university that's a problem we are failing to invest in um the the people that actually pull our economy up that actually contribute to a healthier economy I think that ignoring um the impacts of climate change and waiting for the disasters to strike is uh economically and fiscally irresponsible we've spent $1.1 billion dollars already this year uh responding largely to the wildfires the government budgeted 400 million we told them you're doing this wrong you're not budgeting enough you all they they've done this year-over-year I think the NDP have also not they've chosen not to learn from the last six years and they keep repeating the same mistakes um they uh we've been saying for years they've gotten addicted to an overheated housing market that is eventually going to harm people who live live here and we're seeing those harms right now um that they're they're reliant on um on revenues from resources but I mean I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear if you look at the 2023 24 budget revenues from oil and gas Mining and Forestry combined account for 3.86% of provincial revenues I think that we have an unfair tax system uh we're overly taxing small businesses and uh middle and lower income people and we are failing to tax uh the enormous wealth and high income people in a fair way like I think there's so many adjustments that could be made and the NDP got into Power after 16 years and chose to carry on in a lot of ways with the same directions as the BC liberals and really failed to take the the more courageous approach that they could have taken I think we saw that with Barrett we saw it a little bit with Harcourt um and to to to fundamentally say government has this responsibility to deliver these basic services and that's what we're going to do and instead they tinkered and people are really frustrated after seven years and almost doubling of the budget that the tinkering hasn't resulted in um improvements in fact a lot of people feel like things are worse well we touched on earlier that when we get down to the election campaign um you know you'll be withstanding you know attacks from other parties uh the NDP will and maybe the conservatives and United too will be saying don't split the vote you know like vote for green a ways to vote but you also have kind of um uh a potential situation where your former leader um appears to be poised to or maybe already has endorsed the conservatives uh Andrew Weaver what's your is that something you're particularly concerned about in Victoria with Dr Weaver banging around uh making his pronouncements yeah I can tell you Mike I think of him never the only time I think of him is when I'm asked in an interview about him and I say the same thing time here's a guy that says he was a federal liberal then he was a provincial green then he was a provincial NDP and now he's a uh provincial Conservative um I I think that people can determine for themselves uh who this person appears to be but I really do not spend any time or energy thinking about him he seems to think about me a lot but which is weird um uh but I I actually just find it kind of amusing and silly at this point it doesn't sound like you're going to be playing darts at the red line with them anytime soon uh I I don't I don't think so it's not in Beacon Hill anyway so why would you um it's 10 o'clock on uh Saturday October 19th yeah what does success look like for you a larger green caucus returning to the legislature and uh you know if we go back to the BC legislature with four or six La I think we could make just an enormous difference in this province I think we are so overdue for um an approach to politics that moves us out of this binary silliness that we're trapped in and I've demonstrated I think in the last 10 years as an elected official I work across jurisdictions I work across party lines I deliver we've had historic investments in cin um new hospital new high school New hospice the funding for the wear youth Emergency Services services for people with mental health and addictions a successful model of housing uh people who are homeless I want to keep doing this work on behalf of my constituents and the people of BC and if I have uh three four or five colleagues alongside of me uh we can really change things in this province for the better so your first to know thank you for making your first stop at the hotel Pacifico I hope it won't be your last uh good luck in the weeks ahead hats off to you and everyone who runs for office I'm a chicken I uh I've never done it I uh admire all of you who do it so thank you very much for coming by and sharing your thoughts with us thanks Mike it's a nice hotel I like it guess I've got another update on how Hometown team Talis is bringing better connectivity to BC because Talis and doig River first nation in partnership with all nations Trust Company the government of Canada the government of BC and the northern development initiative trust have announced a $19.2 million initiative that will bring pure fiber to more than 60 households and a dozen businesses in doig River First Nation approximately 70 km Northeast of Fort St John the new fiber optic infrastructure will also serve as the backbone for ts's wire less Network laying the groundwork for 5G Technologies in the years to come and ensuring that people living in doig First Nation have the tools they need to fully participate in the digital economy a 100% fiber to the home network means that every part of the telis Pu fiber network is built with state-of-the-art fiber optics right up to the connection point at the home or business ensuring customers have the fastest network available this work is Talis delivering on a commitment made in 2021 when they became the first tech technology company in Canada to launch a public indigenous reconciliation action plan that plan sets strategic Targets in four key areas connectivity enabling social outcomes cultural responsiveness and relationships and economic reconciliation through public private Partnerships 606 indigenous lands have been connected to ts's broadband Network and 248 indigenous lands connected to T Us's pure fiber Network positively impacting Rural and Indigenous households and businesses which is as good a reason as any to root for the hometown team hello you've reached the hotel Pacifico strategy Suite I thought Bruce young was going to trash the place last week but it's in amazingly good shape I think Bruce has been domesticated and we've had a great response to uh Bruce coming on so thanks to Bruce for sharing his wisdom we have a double shot of stranger danger here in the strategy Suite today well Andrea Rhymer is not really a stranger she's graced our presence once before she served as a Vancouver City councelor and recently narrowly averted being vacuumed back into provincial politics or into provincial politics but Jordan baitman does represent danger yeah at least if you're proposing a sales tax like he defeated the transit referendum in 2015 wearing his bathrobe and slippers while conducting media interviews from his Langley basement which I whether or not he's in his basement right now I prefer to believe he is uh former director of the Canadian taxpayers Federation he is also a former Langley Township counselor hi Jordan hi Andrea how's your summer been it's been great it's been fantastic uh lots of time with the kids and uh my children now are uh one of them is at UBC School of Med doing Midwifery so uh and one just graduated high school and then the third is uh still you know running around lingly causing TR trouble so lots of good time with them and been it's been a very restful summer for sure getting ready for the big uh election push this fall how about you Andrea yeah I um I've had a great summer I spent most of July traveling to visit family um birth family many of whom I've never met before and Co I started connecting with my family and then covid hit and it all got kind of put on hold so it's been a very um yeah just like great it's always great to travel in Canada in summer to sort of more remote places but I'm extra great to meet all these folks that that have been waiting many years to get to know me so that's been really nice Andre I'm not sure when you were on city council if you ever sat on the p& board I did not although I uh definitely was kept a breast of the ins and outs of the p& and the challenges that it faced I mean when I was on Council we were uh kind of charged with coming up with the master plan for it because it was on a bit of life support at the time um Mike you may remember from your time in government the racetrack challenges at that time and just trying to like keep this something that nobody had really taken ownership of in many years and try and get a a thoughtful plan moving forward so other than the rain it's mostly stabilized yeah I made my annual trip there the other day uh saw the pig races my pig uh John Ham uh was not successful uh but there were many other pigs uh that were uh were flying down the uh flying I realizing like half the people listening to this podcast are too young to get the John Ham reference uh probably yeah there was there's some other great uh great names as well um yeah it was one of those peeny days where my daughter and I we we weren't doing too many rides but uh we were just soaking it in we went to uh I had some progis at hunky bills uh and went to the market place and uh got uh shaken down the gullible person that I am uh was drawn in for to buy some uh questionable purchases uh one of which uh I uh I will present to Kate next week on Hotel Pacifico is it an owl a minivan it is not an owl it's not an owl but um it did make me think of Joy mcfa um can't wait to see that a cliffhanger yeah this would be a good personality test though you could you could ask people what they buy at the marketplace at the p& like leave your guesses Hotel Pacifico on Twitter leave your guesses so uh started off this week um Jordan uh you once led the Canadian tax taxpayer Federation and uh not really sure what happened to it after you left I don't hear about them as much anymore as I did during your Heyday and Troy Lanigan and Mark milky's Heyday but there's a lot to work with these days on taxpayer issues last week Von Palmer was fairly critical of Minister Conroy over her presentation of her quarterly uh report that showed that last year's deficit was higher than anticipated and that there's really no plan a balance budget like what your did you follow the quarter Le and what was your take on that yeah I did um it's troubling look I know that we uh coming out of covid Everyone likes to say Hey you know debt deficits it doesn't matter anymore just keep borrowing and spending on what you need today or want today and kicking the can down the road the problem is those bills come due and a guy like Von Palmer he's been around right like he's seen 17 of these Cycles you know uh Sonia talked about boom and bust uh you know Von's live through 17 of these or so so he knows that eventually those bills come due it is shocking to me the rate that ddb's run up debt um that does have an effect down the road as far as what you can do as far as if you're dedicating so much more to interest what you can do in other ways with the provincial budget um but the more shocking part was like you shouldn't even give like lip service to a plan to return to balance like it's it was sort of a hand waving Ah that's the next Finance Minister's problem I might to hear kids enjoy um I didn't understand that like give some sort of semblance of a plan I mean right now their deficit goes from I think it was 5 billion this year to eight next and it's growing it stays high for a long time you think they would have some sort of plan to return to balance or at least gentle n nod towards it rather than the Trudeau you know the budget will balance itself ble Andrew do you think this is an issue that will be part of the election conversation at all yeah I mean I think it will definitely come up I do think um there's sort of this weird dichotomy where there's a lot of nostalgia for the way things used to be like preco pre hellscape Summers of smoky you know can't go camping can't light a fire can't breathe kind of Summers pre-inflation pre- Supply like all of these things and so I think people yearn to go back to a day when our biggest problem was arguing over balance budgets um but I I think we all also are very aware there's some very real challenges that didn't exist 10 20 30 years ago um that we are going to have to reckon with and in large part because we didn't take actions that we should have taken over the last 10 20 30 years so I mean I'd hope that is the discussion we're going to have I think it's going to be a grab bag of all of the above well you were on well both you were on City councils uh but Andrea first you were on city council and you had to balance a budget every year um and obviously you had to face tough decisions every year decisions that the ABC council is finding very tough too um you know as has Co changed the nature of tough decisions these days that you know are we thinking that tough decisions are just being deferred down the road or is it just um you know is it has the finances of government just been fundamentally restructured like what's it it has it is a as you just said it is a lot different today postco than it was pre-co in terms of how we address getting to balance or at least trying to yeah I mean it's a tough issue to equate um I I think municipalities were largely rendered um I wouldn't say irrelevant but to the backseat during the co emergency um because precisely because they can't raise revenue um through anything other than one mechanism they can't go into debt and they really I mean municipalities and local governments exist off a 19th century constitutional structure that is extremely inadequate to meet the problems of the 21st century but then what happens is provinces and federal governments have to use their fiscal capacity and their legislative capacity to intervene um as we saw during Co some of those interventions might have made sense in Vancouver they didn't at all make sense in Greenwood or atlin or wherever and so there's a larger discussion there about um local government power but I I think municipalities have to Balance Books because they have very limited fiscal tools one actually property tax when I was on Vancouver City Council we doubled the available taxes avail to Vancouver by convincing provinal government that you were involved with Mike um to give us the empty homes tax right so I mean that's how slim the fiscal capacity of Municipal governments are if we were trying to run a province off that kind of capacity um we'd be in a lot more trouble than we've been at any time in any of our Lives Jordan you want to jump in yeah you know another former Vancouver City counselor Jeff mags who obviously would usually be here you know I do wonder what he and John Horan think of the spending that's going on now and the debt that's being incurred because they were so meticulous about trying to avoid that narrative from the 90s and no not surprising me vs Horan edrian dicks they were there in the 90s when the NDP got this reputation as you know wild Spenders and and running up debt and you know to Horgan's credit those first few years he tried to hold it in line on the mean a simple side like I'm as a counselor I never went to Union BC municipalities I found I just you didn't never really grab me and there were other counselors in Langley who wanted to go I am curious what this year's ubcm um you have well it's generally been a fairly warm welcome for NDP Premier and leaders in the past uh at ubcm but now they're you know starting to flex their muscle and impose a lot of new rules cost changes onto these municipalities it's a great piece um in the Vancouver Sun uh today on on just you know how development cost charges are going to be really focused tightly focused by The Province they not going to allow a lot of the creep that's gone on which has been the other way that uh these municipalities growing communities like Langley Township for example have been um building infrastructure so I'm very curious what kind of reception David EB Ravi Kine get at ubcm this year especially if you have opposition parties coming in and saying ah forget that you know we recognize local government Authority want to make sure that your voice is being heard uh and that you have access to some Financial tools you need well the ubcm convention will run right to the eve of the election starting so it's it will be the 16th to 20th of September and then um as far as we know the election starts on September 21st and there's a little tweak in the schedule this year uh the premier typically speaks on the Friday and that's been moved back I believe to the Thursday um and then the opposition leaders are speaking on the Friday so there's there's you know UBC M will be a stage in the final week of the preit for all those parties getting their message out and Mayors and counselors and Royal directors are also part of that stage depending on what happens that week I don't want to overdramatize it I don't think necessarily ubcm doesn't tend to generate a ton of Front Page News in provincial politics but maybe this maybe this year it'll be a little bit different who knows yeah I think it's an interesting topic Jordan to throw in there is that I mean I I can't think of a single local government person I've talked to in the last six months who isn't pretty riled up about what they see as provincial overreach and that extends right across the political Spectrum the the nonaligned everybody um is quite um agitated and I I think even regardless of where you stand on the issue of density and housing like it's a lot about the way it's been done as opposed to what's been done although some folks are just upset of West Vancouver as a notable example of one that's just upset about the concept of new density but yeah I I can't imagine a worse backdrop if I were them to be going into an election with but I think unavoidable well uh one to watch for sure so uh both of you were lurking in the shadows of Hotel Pacifico while I was interviewing Sonia first to know today um well let's start with you Andre you've got a background as a UR while green uh from your earlier days uh what was your take on what you were hearing from Sonia today in terms of her message and what she's uh strategically trying to do yeah I mean it's always lovely to listen to her she's very likable she's very smart um but I I in politics as you both know what matters isn't how smart you are it's what you do with those smarts and I wasn't I was quite surprised by a few aspects of the interview um I think she does a solid job she is as I said a pleasure to listen to um but it took her 30 minutes to mention the word climate not kidding like I was waiting for it waiting for it waiting for it and I mean these are the bread and butter issues for her voters and I mean moving into an election I mean we're literally on the doorstep of it your job number one has to be to distinguish and contrast yourself and she has a pretty clear Runway right now to be talking about um the the NDP have had trouble they've tried to decouple climate action from fossil fuel expansion and those are hard Concepts to decouple and Sonia as you saw at the end of her interview can speak well to it um issues on democratic reform action on to toxic drug crisis there's a lot she could have said that I think would help distinguish her but I think the thing that stood out for me the most Mike I learned more about Sonia firsto in your intro than I have ever heard about her personally and that's kind of amazing like I'm I I have a green pedigree it was my first um political home I wrote their 2001 platform and their 2005 I was elected under the greens the first time around um and so I pay some good attention to her but I not only learned more from your intro but she really tried to distance herself from what I thought was an incredibly important story about her connection to immigration which is this story of this province right I mean that it's not the only story but it's certainly a story that would resonate a lot more with voters than my mom is from Saturn Island which you pointed out is not a story most of us share well it's my exhaustive research obviously my team of 200 people in the hotel basement uh furiously reading her official biography to pull that out but but Jordan uh you know I was surprised when she said they'll have over 70 candidates CU I think they're only about 25 to 30 right now if that so to me that's new to me that's news because I think the greens not being on the ballot would be a major event in terms of you know uh arguably who does that help who does that hurt it's assume that it would hurt the NDP more if it Greens on the ballot not necessarily in all cases but the fact that they are seem to be ready ready to open the floodgates um in September and throw Greens on the ballot everywhere was um kind of surprised me yeah and I wonder what kind of connection those people are going to have with the community like you know everyone's Instagram Twitter Facebook pages are filled with various candidates from our little political Stripes knocking doors going to every event you know really kind of getting into there in the community I you need time to do that right like a four-week campaign you're just basically sending a no hoper in there and and you know just fill this so we can get our our um our pre vote subsidy after the fact I want to give you a stat from the laser poll this was really like when I think about the greens this is what I think about like how do they grow past the federal vote like the federal green vote and the truth is they're not so leiser asked you know what provincial party do you support what federal party do you support only 3% of NDP voters federally support the greens 3% only 1% of CPC voters federally support the greens and only 6% of federal liberals support the greens so you have I think it was something like 88% of federal green voters support the provincial so you have this little faction that is you know talking to themselves only you know and and you see it in question period by the way when you know she gave you know Russ at a hard time for not having the kind of question she would like I watched every question period from the spring session and you you'd be like okay this is the issue of the day you see ice hammering on affordability or on Public Safety or whatever you watched every question period in this session that's exactly what I was thinking how TV in the i TV in the office I have a TV in the office would you rather me to be working come on but it would always cut down to Adam olon or sign for some they would ask the most obscure narrow question even even on as far as environmental questions go like sure ask environmental questions but they were like you know EX Tree in why Forest is in danger of being cut down today and you know don't you think and it was like what's that for like like where how are you going to grow like what are you gonna put on social media about that that that's going to draw more people to your your Coalition so all that to say this late start on CS sure 70 CS they you know they got to get there but you're not giving yourself enough time to reach out past your little green base into these other Federal parties and bring them in well rust clearly made a decision just to head to the country side and forget about the going out the legisl get this important work done I mean she made some excellent and I think quite principled points about the responsibilities in the legislature but when you're party leader you also have a responsibility to the goals and aspirations um um policy aspirations right and those aren't going to be met by you arguing even non obscure points in question period and an election year I actually think that they may be more further behind this year before the election than they were in 2020 and that was a snap election which is yeah saying a lot um in terms of what's going to be possible for them to make the gains that she was talking about this election well last election I recall that she kind of took off after the debate I think she had a good debate because she the contrast between her and uh Wilkinson and uh the premier um she looked different right she was she different she looked different and yeah I think part of the special sauce for the greens over the years has been safe haven for protest voters H certainly in 2017 a lot of BC liberals just parked with the greens in that campaign because they you know maybe 3% or 4% of the BC liberal vote that had been their previous election just went didn't want to go to the NDP but kind of stopped halfway to the greens so does she have a protest vote up side this time given that the conservatives are have disrupted the race and so you got the center right they have a choice between two parties right now and E's kind of swung perception wise he's swung to the green side to the left of on the NDP Coalition compared to Horgan where does that leave the greens zero seats yeah I was gonna say honestly isn't that the smart bet zero seats yeah I don't I I do think they do have some dark force chances um but yeah I mean she did a f I think she did a fantastic job of introducing herself to British Colombians in the 2020 debate and that was a a hard to knock on door's election right so the way most of us got to know that well maybe not us in this room but people who aren't is watching every legislative uh question period um in the spring session they're going to get to know Folks by watching the TV debate I don't I I the poll that stands out for me Jordan you were mentioned the Le one there was one by Angus Reed a while back that listed off the qualities of the leaders like what was the top of Mind qualities and Sonia and David were indistinguishable like they had exactly like they're both smart they're both warm they're both trustworthy like that was the the list and so unless she can find another way to distinguish her I think that she's going to um she's going to fade into the background a bit and the debate that's not to say that she can't pick up ground I do think there is um what I call the Kennedy Stewart offense where you hope for a four-way split somewhere and somehow you can you know eek out the plurality and come up the middle I think there's a potential in a couple of writings but they're long shots for sure and I I think notably not hers like I can't I was hoping you'd ask her Mike what the strategy was behind running in Victoria Beacon Hill I I I have not been able to figure find anyone who can tell me what's happening there well I would say in Beacon Hill it's she's definitely taken on uh a pill battle uh Carol James's former seat Grace lore seems to be well regarded uh however uh what's disruptive in Beacon Hill right now is is the uh crime issue and uh the issues around homelessness and the encampments and creating a bit of disqui Victoria and you saw that a bit in the last municipal election and the conservative is very active in that writing and and so I just you know she needs a perfect storm she needs to win with 35% of the vote and I'll take her at face value for what she perceives as her ground strength there so you know she'll need to she'll need momentum from the provincial campaign to get her over the hump uh in Beacon Hill for sure but West fan sky is pretty interesting one given the given the split there uh he should have won last time uh had there not been so many male in ballots last election because of the crazy Co election uh he he likely would have won so now the circumstances are different this time so we'll see we'll see i' I'd actually put my probably put my money on I I don't know who to put my money on but I'm not sure I'd put my money on the greens there um I put on the conservative in that writing just because you have well that's tough to say actually the NDP C is very good gen Ford I think is former head of ubcm ubcm shout outs here um you have the chancellor of capu and like the worldwide president of um United Way running for the uh conservatives and you don't have a United candidate yet so the longer the United wait the less strength they're going to have the better for the conservative yeah yeah they might they might get lucky there um well let's let's go to the main event here um well let the green sail off on the conversation list here um BC United is going to at least for the near term keep attacking the conservatives and Jordan are they a a fly to be swatted away or are they an angry swarm of Mad Hornets that are going to sting and hurt the conservative chances winning uh well I mean so earlier this week I uh announced I was as an old BC United organizer I was now supporting the BC conservatives and it is based on vote splitting and the irony is it's all the same arguments uh we on the BC liberal side used in 2013 against the BC conservatives at one point there was 22% BC conservative 22% BC liberal in that campaign um and we all know what happened Christy Clark was elected Premier the same arguments apply but now flipped around and you know all of us here are BC history Buffs we know that the free enterprise vote reformats every generation we seem to be in the midst of that reformatting right now and the truth is you know if you want to beat if you want to stop David EB if you want to stop the NDP policies you got to Rally around one party that party is the BC conservatives they're within the margin of error and some pulling behind a little bit more others ahead and a couple they're right in the thick of the fight whereas BCU is has fallen to under 10 points BCU probably has to go to fiveish points to really kind of stop that vote split from cost seeing rustad a chance of the premier's office you know it's going to be it's tough seding for BC United for sure I think it's a decision you didn't make lately no yeah it it was it's tough it's tough and it's hard not because of the you know when we think political parties you think of the big personalities you know the leader or the the top ml it's not because of them that's tough like it's because of the Frontline people and the volunteers like pour their heart and soul into this part are really believe in and are are carrying these you know candidates who you have you know hardly any funding and like they're working so darn hard and you know it's hard to step away from that however every party has those people has those Grassroots people and I do think that you know eventually you know the free enterprise will come back together under a a different Banner um and we'll be able to to heal those relationships but you know there's been hard conversations you know online and and on DM and even on the old school telephone with folks um who are you know upset there's also been a ton of folks who have sent me notes saying I'm with you you know I made this decision X days ago we've got to get uh we've got to get John rustad elected so there are trade-offs for sure but there's some hurt feelings as you would expect in on any team so you you mentioned the leie poll there was a lege poll release last week by the BC Chamber of Commerce which had it at online survey had it at 423 sorry 4335 12 BCU 10 green um young men uh definitely favoring more likely favor conservatives and 35 to 54 year old men as well uh older voters continue that trend of preferring the NDP uh which is a turnout Advantage uh and then the regional breaks were the Metro Vancouver was fairly competitive except the city of Vancouver was more NDP the interior was more conservative Island NDP I sound like a broken record here compared to previous weeks so Andre what do you think is um job number one let's assume that the NDP have a bit of a lead going into the election not a double digigit lead probably but a a marginal lead heading into the election they have this base of support with older people that they have not really had in the past historically what do you think job number one is I mean job number one in every election is go knock on doors but in a super tight election it's even more the the thing you got to go do at Jordan's points earlier about um how well are you known in the community how well are you taking the people who are well known in the community out on the doors with you and making sure that you're getting eyeball to eyeball contact with as many people as possible I think the important thing in any poll is to me the number of undecided voters and that's still um quite high it's over 20% are undecided um but of course important thing in the actual election is how many show up because a lot of those undecided are actually just saying I I'm I'm not motivated enough to vote in this election um so I think that is the second job that um is in front of the NDP right now and it falls primarily on AB himself is how are you going to motivate and energize people and we were talking about Christy Clark in 2013 a really great example right where the the longer you're in government the more things you've done that make someone angry or annoy someone or over time they get more and more motivated to vote against you uh if they if they weren't that inclined in your direction in the first place so that's going to drive um conservative and potentially United turnout um so the question for David is how is he going to motivate and energize his base to show up because that's really going to be the difference in a lot of these writings where um a a two-way race is going to make it a lot more competitive than it was in 20120 well with regard to the NDP uh underlying numbers uh the premier continues to do well in terms of his impressions of his leadership uh 52% of a favorable impression in this poll uh a plus 15 better than any other leader loia herself uh actually did well as a net favorable the rustad was nit negative fulcon very much nit negative uh but more worrying for me if I were any peers the ra track wrong track it's net negative uh 48% think province is on the wrong track uh Jordan now that you're a freshly minted conservative what do you think job number one is for the conservatives in the weeks ahead here job number one is to flush out a little bit of the policy side um like these folks have been going Full Tilt uh for quite some time on very little resources and it wasn't until the last quar that the fundraising really flipped they don't get the same kind of tax subsidy that the other parties get because of previous election performance but now you're starting to see well you've seen basically the emptying out of BC United headquarters they're down to four or five folks is my understanding all those folks moved over uh to the BC conservatives and brought that expertise with them um you're seeing you know like Kevin Falcon's leadership team core leadership team I don't think there's a single person once Mark Robertson left BC United and went to BC conserves I don't think there's a single person left at BC United who was part of that core team you yourself were a Kevin Falcon supporter absolutely absolutely absolutely I was twice and uh 20 2011 when Mike handed our hats to us um but you know it's like it's falling apart organizationally there money is tight because they're not bringing in the donations you know my understanding is they can't borrow Beyond you know what the guaranteed taxpayer subsid is so they don't really have the finances anymore BC United and you know be the BC conserves are the only party that's really seeing a growth in support the greens are stagnant BC is going down and and the NDP have kind of are come creeping down slightly so there is this huge opportunity so you know the debate I actually think it's good for rustad to have Sonia first on the debate she's such a lovely calming presence like even on this uh even on the the call here you know I was like ah you know I felt very calm and safe with Sonia there you know talking to me through the uh through the screen I think that may ratchet down any kind of emotion between Falcon Russ because clearly there is some uh there's a history there um rustad just has to you know get some policy out refresh the team make sure that you know they bringing in more uh more help on the organizational side and doesn't have a lot of time momentum no he doesn't have a lot of time that's true and when I look at the three top issues that people are concerned about healthc care cost of living housing uh who best to handle those issues it's EB e yeah you know so you know they're it's either they haven't prosecuted the case against EV well enough or voters are finding the alternative less appealing than the incumbent yeah I think there's a frustration um building out there about some of these issues I don't think folks have connected it yet to E's door like you know healthc care is you know Healthcare overdose all these different things they're all provincial responsibilities well who's in charge of the provincial government maybe we should hold that guy to account the problem for rustat is that and and this is the frustration in the free enterprise community and in the business with the business folks that I've talked to is like why is BC United shooting at John Russa and the conservatives when you've got this incredible Target of the NDP right there like Focus your criticism on them and you know there was a shift when Kevin Falcon brought in this new campaign manager to basically you know Blast away at the BC conservatives and try to grow your vote by absolutely devouring theirs it hasn't worked um but what it has done is it's helped EV skate on some of these issues and it's forced BC conservatives to put in resources on defense rather than uh you know letting them go on offense against the uh the NDP record yeah how important do you think uh an active vigorous BC United campaign is to the ndp's re-election I think a lot of their strategy like a year ago was heavily depending on two active United conservative campaigns kind of cancelling themselves out and I think they've got ground to make up now as a result of that right you get a bit get a bit complacent I think over time I always said in politics you're only ever as good as your opposition is um and I think they've suffered a bit from uh are you surprised surprised that like I mean I think we're all surprised but are you surprised at just how quickly the the right has completely turned upside down in the last year no I mean I think it is surprising but also I'm not surprised I think if you're watching sort of global Trends this is a very um common pattern around the world um and I think also going back to like where we all started today with the greens I've had a front row seat to the greens as I was watching you know basically the German Greens Drive Green vote here and green vote in BC driving Federal vote and nobody really knew what the greens were all about we could have put almost anything in a platform and people still would have voted green because they had a general sense it was a good idea I think that's what's happening with the conservatives people and we hear polling and um anecdotal stories all the time that people can't pick rusted out of a police lineup but they sure know who Pierre POV is and that's what they're kind of interested in voting for so I think what will become much more interesting for our political Watchers is what happens as people get to know who the conservatives are and who the leadership of the party is I think both the conservatives and it sounds like the greens are going to have challenges around um quick candidate growth I mean the conservatives have already seen that challenge of who are these people and what do they stand for I think any party that picks up candidates quickly and grows fast that can be something that they're dealing with that's they said 91 about the BC liberals like who are these people that's what they said about you know 2001 half the BC Li caucus was unknown right like that you grow into the role um as we saw John Horan is a premier you grow into the role and uh so I I I'm not too concerned about that here's here's the last crazy staff from that Leisure P I just want to throw up for you guys um the bcnp are supported by 133% of Po of Voters and 63% of federal liberals BC United is supported by 8% of Po voters so Five Points behind what EB gets from CBC voters and 22% of federals so like you know talk about a a party without a camp right now that's that's BC United well and I was gonna ask both of you because I feel like you're in a better place to answer this than I am where are the federal liberal voters going to go like I can't see them supporting a POV surge what they would perceive as a POV surge um in BC so what's their plan well I think what yeah what Jordan's saying there is that majority are voting NDP at this point yeah two-thirds now the federal liberal vote has shrunk a bit right compared to last election so some of those people who used to vote Federal liberal ver they gone probably to the conservatives and those are probably the marketplace for BC conservatives uh because those kind of center right voters that may have been Federal liberal voters in the past but um uh as Bruce young said last week on the strategy Suite there's another Coalition that may be forming and that is a federal liberal Andy provincial NDP Coalition that is every bit as robust as what a center right Coalition could be and that's uh you know I think that's what's at stake in this election is who's uh who's going to have the strongest appeal to those voters that are loose fish right now yeah but it does if the NDP did move towards the federal liberals um policy-wise I mean you should be able to see some open room there for the greens um on that I know that was one of vision's problems is that we were straddling a lot of political um real estate and you know the further you move towards Centrist positions the more you're um letting go of some some of the what would be considered more left-wing um positions it's hard territory to hold on to well on that note let's uh go grab a drink in the mini bar awesome do you know why they call it natural gas in 1862 4 years after the formation of the colony the first gas- powered street light was lit in front of JD Carrol's liquor store in downtown Victoria the Victoria gas company's new plant in rock Bay was the source of Supply back in the day on Vancouver Island gas used to be produced from coal deposits on the island the gas was known as coal gas or town gas as it was manufactured in town since then a lot has changed with the exploration of the Western Canadian sedimentary Basin British Columbia found gas that was naturally produced through geologic processes this natural gas was more affordable than the manufactured gas and has come to dominate BC's gas system over the past Century today 4 species gas system connects over 1 million homes and businesses and like the shift from manufactured gas to Natural Gas our provinces Energy System continues to evolve bsbc is bringing us back full circle by looking at new ways to move our Energy System forward that means working with Farmers local governments industry and Indigenous Partners to develop renewable and low carbon gas projects right here in BC and elsewhere foris BC energy for a better future and a better podcast let's raise a glass or take a shot time to raid the mini bar Jordan do you would you like to start off this week to raise a glass or I would like to raise a glass if I could I'm feeling very positive these days after after listening and being part of this conversation but um my late father-in-law um before he passed away a few years ago he he was 25 years clean and sober and this was a big deal that was a lifechanging thing for our family so I have this real soft spot despite my fiscal conservative you know anti-tax ways branding that the folks like you put on me I I have a real soft spot when it comes to uh addiction addiction Services mental health how those all kind of correlate so I want to raise a toast to uh my friend Katie Maryfield renowned BC uh former BC liberal organizer cons party of can organizer uh one of the smartest campaign people I know she just basically stepped away from her political career uh political campaigning organizing career to take on a role as director of communications for the Canadian Center of recovery excellence and the idea behind this organization is they'll kind of be like a a a house a house for uh studying the statistics of what's working in what provinces as far as addiction uh treatment is going what isn't working sort of like the Canadian Institute of Health Information is globally for the Health Care system so you know it takes a lot to step away from you know your career that you're well known for that you had you know lots of opportunity in but raise a toast to Katy Maryfield for uh for moving on to to core and for um taking up the cause for folks who who are addicted and need help um and need to have a and and the policy makers need to have the best understanding possible of what's going to work all right Andrea I love that and I didn't know she'd moved on there that's great news for um the policy area and um yeah it's really cool to hear Jordan you're making me feel like uh I didn't put nearly as much thought um or emotional care into mine um but you know honestly I it's it's a bit of the doll Drums of politics um despite the election right now uh in the late stages of August here but I don't think I have ever been as excited about rain in August as I have this last week and so just to raise the cheers to whatever factors came together to I I can't remember the last time we were able to have a campfire on a long weekend um when we were camping in the South Coast here so pretty excited about that but I think even more so just really grateful to all those communities that have been fighting so hard to try and protect things um the idea that they just get a little bit of a break for a few weeks um and just to thank all the people who've been on the front lines of fighting all those fires over the last number of well weeks but it feels like it's going on a decade now that we've been dealing with this all right that's great uh well I'll keep it light and Breezy here uh I'm going to raise a glass to Sonia first to know for coming on today I respect uh the time that any leader would give to uh share with podcast like ours and uh I'm hopeful that we'll we'll hear from the other leaders in the the coming weeks uh Kevin Falon has confirmed already and he'll be on in the coming weeks and look forward to hearing from the other two in in short order um or else you will I will take shots I will take shots but I won't yet um but that's uh that wraps up a great episode today I'd like to thank our guest BC green party leader Sonia firsto for taking the time to stop by Hotel Pacifico our first leader in this election cycle also like to thank Andrea Rhymer and Jordan baitman for coming by the strategy Suite this week and lending their expertise thank you to our presenting sponsor Tellus for their ongoing support and thank you Forest BC see you next week BC you can never leave check out time at hotel Pacifico we hope you enjoyed your stay [Music]