Adventist Identity - Part 2 by Blare Lemke and Allen Lindsay

[Music] good morning friends uh thank you for tuning in to our avenus identity and Ellen White Workshop uh we uh have been going through a four-part workshop entitled they have the testimony of Jesus and looking at what it is what is this group of people who have the testimony of Jesus which uh scripture describes as a God's Remnant last day faithful people who keep the Commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus and uh we've been looking at who those people are and what this gift is uh this gift of the testimony of Jesus in our first session uh we look looked at what the prophetic gift is what is the testimony of Jesus we saw that the testimony of Jesus was the spirit of Prophecy or the gift of Prophecy which was given to the prophets and we saw some of the biblical tests of a prophet that we can use to apply to discern between true and false prophets uh we looked at some uh biblical evidence for the end time manifestation of the gifts of Prophecy in the church and that we should expect to see the gift of Prophecy all the way through through till Jesus second coming and uh then in our second session with Dr Allen we looked at several Visions from that Ellen White and uh and we inspired to see how that worked and and some of the truths that God revealed to his people through his servant alen white his messenger and so today we are looking at part three of our Workshop titled uh they have the Testament of Jesus and particular topic today is Satan's last great deception and uh we're going to see as we go through our this morning that Satan's last great deception is related and connected to how we understand the inspiration and authority of Ellen White and uh and so we're going to look at that in just a moment I'm going to share a statement with you that uh is where we've drawn work title today from and we're going to discuss that over the course of our time together this morning we're going to try to keep this first session here to about um half an hour to 45 minutes we'll see and uh so that we can give ourselves some time for a Q&A session straight after this workshop and we've got Dr Allen who's going to be here with us and I'll be fiing questions again if you have any questions that have come up from yesterday's session or from uh today's session as I share U please feel free to text those questions that may arise uh through to the phone number that's been posted in the comments section there and uh and you'll be able to we're going to be collecting those questions and compiling them and answering them uh just in our second Workshop session today so I've just dropped that phone number in the comment section again for you so that you can text those through and uh please don't be shy text them through so we can have discussion together uh so without any further Ado I'm going to begin with a word of prayer and uh then we're going to enter into our Workshop Satan's last great deception let's pray together Heavenly Father Lord I want to thank you for the privilege that we have to be here this morning uh to today to be able to study uh the important topic of the inspir and author of The Gift of Prophecy the testimony of Jesus Jesus uh and so Lord we just want to pray that you'd send your Holy Spirit to lead us into all truth as you promis us in your word you will and uh we ask our time this morning would give us a greater commitment to you to your cause to your end time church and to Greater appreciation for the gift of Prophecy which you have given to your church and so Lord we just um thank you for our time together in Jesus name we pray amen I'm going to share my screen and uh we're going to launch straight into it as you can see on our uh slid slid right there we've got our Workshop they have the Testament of Jesus and today's titled Satan's last great deception I want to share with you this statement here from selected messages on page notice what we read here it says Satan is constantly pressing in serous from the truth the very last deception of Satan will will be to make of none effect the testimony of the spirit of God where there is no vision the people perish Satan will work ingeniously in different ways and through different agencies unsettled confidence of God's Remnant people in the true testimony uh you'll notice there that phrase we've got our title for our Workshop today uh the very last deception of Satan make of effect testimony of the spirit of God to try to make of none effect the testimony of the spirit of God uh so uh we see here that one of Satan's last great deceptions that he is attempting to uh use to deceive God's people uh is to lead them away uh from a an appreciation of the authority and inspiration of the testimony of the spirit as manifested through the gift through the ministry of B and white and he is attempting here to make of none effect the testimonies of been given through of Prophecy uh and he's going to work ingeniously in different ways and through different agencies uh to do everything he can to unsettle God the confidence of God's Remnant people in the true testimony uh we we learned in our first Workshop series together in Revelation 12:1 17 that the the devil is angry at the church particularly in regards to their commandment keeping and their testimony of Jesus and so it should not be a surprise that will attempt to attack really um the testimony of Jesus and that it would perhaps be included as one of his last deceptions to try to lead God's people away from that God G through the testimony of Jesus he wants to cut off his our Communications channel to Jesus uh and so he's doing everything he can to achieve that uh I want to share a couple of preliminary considerations with you and um I'm going to share some statements with you I do want to give um uh just a comment and a shout out to um uh or ackowledgement to Mark Howard Mark Howard has put together a series uh going through the testimony of uh Jesus going through the um Spirit of Prophecy and is shared it on audio verse and uh some of the uh material that I'll be sharing today was uh is shared by him in that series and I'd encourage you to have a look at it um but I want to take you through this this statement here a couple of statements here just as preliminary considerations uh we see here Ines volume 3 page 83 we read this all who believe that the Lord has spoken through sister white and has given message will be safe from the many delusions will come in these last days um clearly we this gives us a little bit of an understanding of why the devil while why Satan may be interested in attacking and trying to deceive God's people in this area of the testimony of Jesus because uh we we know what we we what we read here in selected messages is that those uh who believe that the Lord has spoken through sister white believe in the inspiration and the authority of Ellen White uh that her messages have come from God that she's a true Prophet uh those people who believe these things will be safe from the manys that come in the last days and so uh God has given us specific counsel and messages through the spirit through the ministry of Ellen White to protect us against deceptions that will come in the last days and so Satan has a vested interest in uh deceiving us and causing us to not appreciate or not recognize the authority and inspiration of of her true prophetic gift uh so that he can deceive us more easily we see rationale or an interest uh a reason why he is putting effort into making this one of his last great deceptions notice this statement here from testimonies for the church Volume 5 page 300 we read this it is Satan's settled purpose to cut off all communication between God and his people that he may practice his deceptive WS with no voice to warn them of their danger if he can to dis the messenger or to attach no sacredness to the message he knows that they will feel to heed the word of God to them and when light is set aside as Darkness Satan has things his own way this is a very um a very important warning that we been given here in testimonies for the church and uh it gives us an insight into Satan's operations he is particularly interested in cutting off all Communications his people uh so that he can deceive and and lead people away from God without the the voice of coming people to warn against these deceptions and and if he can lead people to distrust uh Messengers uh that he has sent like through the ministry of Ellen White to attach no goodness to the messages that they give or to lower their inspiration and Authority then he knows that he will be able to uh heed the word of God to them through that messenger he will be able to rob the prophetic gift of its power to transform and to change lives and uh to people to Jesus and when this sort of light is set aside as darkness when these mistakes are made when we fall for these deceptions this is uh this is where Satan is able to thrive and he has his own way and he can deceive more easily and so this is one of Satan's last great deceptions uh that he is attempting to do and that we as young people living in the last days uh in the hour of God's judgment and just right before his second coming this is something that for you and I we have the uh privilege or the important responsibility to be aware of and to try to and to to mitigate against by trusting in Jesus by looking to his uh by following him wherever he goes Revelation 12:1 17 Again that text that we started our time together off uh we learned that the dragon was enraged with the woman and in those two areas commandment and the testimony so these attacks are no surprise this last great deception that Satan is trying to pull over God's people is not a surprise or it shouldn't be a surprise uh it should be something that we're aware of and looking out for and uh and therefore uh be able to mitigate I want you to notice this St here from test of the church Volume 5 uh this is a very important uh statement I will set up the rationale we're going to talk about today um she says here as the end draws near and the work of giving the last warning message to the work extends it more important for those who accept present truth to have a clear understanding of the nature and the influence of the testimonies which God in his Providence with the work of the third Angel's message from its rise so she talks here about this idea of present truth present Tru truth being truth that is particularly relevant to you and I today uh there's been present truth all the way throughout scripture this is a Biblical phrase present truth that Peter uses and present is describing truth that is particularly relevant to a people that time so as Noah was preaching uh the uh the soon coming flood disaster this was present Truth for the people in his time uh it has application to Believers throughout biblical history but it was present truth particularly relevant for those people in that time and as is the case with Noah there's other places through where truth is present is particularly relevant to a people group at that time and uh and the Three Angels messages uh is truth is makes up part of the present truth that is particularly relevant to you and I living here in these last days and she says that this present history it is particularly important it becomes more important for us to have a clear understanding of the nature and the influence of the testimonies that the nature there refers to what uh what what is the prophetic gift what is it is what what is the inspiration is it inspired is it authoritative um and this the nature of the testimony what G authori it have uh and the influence uh how does it Rel to our lives if it's inspired and authoritative then it has a command on on our lives and a call for us if it's really the voice of Jesus to us if it's a message from God to us then it will have a particular influence uh in our lives or if it's Al a false uh prophetic gift then it will not have an influence in our life it will be robbed of its influence and so and rightly so if it was not a true prophetic gift and so here we see uh this statement that she says it's particularly important to understand the nature and the influence testimonies in these last days and as we is more important as we approach closer and closer to his return because this is one of Satan's last great deceptions to try to confuse over the inspiration and authority of el White's writings so it shouldn't surprise us when we do find attacks on Ellen White's inspiration and Authority we find these sorts of attacks from outside of it as would be expected and people who there doesn't have for GI she's a false prophet s adventism is the cult all of these sorts of attacks from outside of the church uh Satan's doing his very best to you know spread these sorts of attacks but uh we should also expect that the deception would be uh particularly effective uh not only you know for some of these attacks from outside of the church uh that you know we can they're not or they're not as umn they don't have as great they're not as powerful in their deceptive ability to some people because we're just like okay well you know we expect this of the church but Satan is also very subtle in his deceptions and he will try to deceive through attacks within the church and uh some of these attacks are not even just direct attacks at the or denying the spirit of Prophecy but are attacks that just I guess can maybe even be framed as defenses of Ellen White's writings but the net effect of the defense is such that ites the inspir authority of her writings it creates confusion around the role of her writings the nature and the influence of them and uh just plain out spreads confusion and unclear teaching on these topics and makes it difficult or harder to understand the true nature and influence of the testimonies and so uh we see here a call and this is why we're going to spend our time we're spending our time together now thinking and talking about these issues uh because U we should have a clear understanding of the inspiration and authority of her writings particularly uh as it relates to the present truth of these last times now let me show you this this statement that we started on uh from selected messages it says the very last deception of God will be to make a effect the testimony of the spirit of God this is one of Satan's last great deceptions uh and he's going to work in many different ways through different agencies so tax from out outside of the church attacks from inside of the church defenses from inside of the church that are defenses at all but just create confusion and unsettle the confidence of God's Remnant people in the true testimony uh and so I want you to know uh that phrase there say the last deception of Satan will be to make of none effect the testimony of the spirit of God uh that phrase there none effect is actually a Biblical phrase that's taken straight from scripture and Ellen White is lifting this and sharing it in this context and I want to draw your attention to uh the place in scripture where this phrase is taken because I think it provides some important insights as we try to understand the context around means to make of none effect the testimony the spirit of God uh and so I want you to turn with me if you have your Bible I'd like to invite you to open up to Mark chapter 7 and in Mark chapter 7 verse 9 to13 we read here uh the place in scripture where this phrase none effect is lifted from In this passage so let me just say here Jesus is sharing is speaking to the Pharisees to the religious rulers and uh he's just criticized them for uh honoring their lips but then uh their heart being far from him being whitewashed tombs being uh claiming to be uh followers of God but then um you know teaching as doctrines Commandments of men putting in these uh these other teachings and so looking good on the outside but not being surrendered on the inside and then he goes on and he he he addresses a particular point where they've taken a commandment of God and and uh put a a tradition of man I want you to notice here where we read it and what he says what scripture says about it in Mark chapter 7 verse n and he said to them is Jesus speaking All Too Well you reject the Commandment of keep your tradition for Moses said honor your father and your mother and he who curses father or mother let him be put to death but you say if a man says to his father or mother whatever profit you may have received from from me is Corbin that is a gift to God then you no longer let him do anything for his father his mother making the word god of none effect or um of none effect through your tradition which you have handed down and many such things you do uh we see here this uh that phrase lifted in nkjv it says no effect or in the kjbs of none effect lifted up from that verse 13 there so it says you make the word of God of none effect through your tradition so uh we see that the F the religious rulers here had the Commandment of God to honor their uh father and mother and um and then this tradition that they had established Corbin whereby instead of U providing for the their elderly parents in their time of need in their when they were elderly uh means they would be able to give their belongings their all of their wealth and and these sorts of things dedicated to the church or Corbin and by doing so released themselves of the obligation to provide for care for and honor their parents and in doing this Jesus was addressing them and saying you you uh you turn the Commandment of God you put Thea traditions of men over the Commandments of God and you make the word of God of none effect so I want you to notice a couple of things here they don't directly deny the Commandments of God they don't say that they aren't important or that they're not uh you know not binding or or you know these sorts of things uh but they what they do here to make it of none effect is that they make the Commandment not relevant to them so it's not applicable it's not directly applicable to them in this situation because they have Corbin or they introduce some sort of other idea to take away the application the direct application to themselves they're not directly denying the Commandment of God that it's not relevant or applicable to me now this is very important because this kind of touches on what we were looking at just a minute ago that the uh the ability to make the Commandments of God of none effect is not just denying outright denying these Commandments but it can also be just uh de delegating them to a category or a position of whether not applicable or relevant to me so this is the same thing when we approach the spirit of Prophecy uh this to Satan's last great deception to make of none effect the testimonies uh from the testimonies is not just uh necessarily attack at the inspiration authority of Ellen White in in the sense that you know it's a direct attack but it can also just be a reducing or a changing of the uh category to say that it's not relevant to me it might be applicable to some people in some periods or some times uh but not relevant to me and so there can be really outright direct attacks against the authority inspiration and white and they can also be subtle and more nuanced attacks that may be more effective in deceiving some people by just saying that it's not relevant or applicable to me so each of these to notice is making of none effect the Commandments of God or making of none effect the testimonies and so uh this is one of Satan's last great deceptions and in order for it to deception uh it has a significant effect on God's people and so uh we need to um approach this topic of the Authority and inspiration [Music] of there's some important steps that we need to go through in recognizing the authority and inspiration of prophetic writings uh and recognizing the authority and inspiration of elen White's writings suggests that a process uh you know there's a process involved there of bringing a person from uncertainty in her prophetic gift to certainty and how do we do that some some PE people may ask the question you know how do I introduce El White's writings to someone who hasn't you know studied them before or or hasn't known about them or maybe is skeptical of them have once believed them but now doesn't you know how do we lead others ourselves and others to recognize the authority and inspiration of White's writings because uh because it's such a important thing in these last days if we we we read that comment if we believe protect us from the deceptions in these last days and that the Devil's doing everything he can to as a last great deception to deceive God's people on these points well then how do we get to the point where we can walk through uh those things ourselves and others so that we can recognize the authority and inspiration of her writings and be benefited and blessed by the message from Jesus to us through her uh and so there's a couple of things I want to draw your attention to uh four basic simple steps that we can take to uh to to step through this process of going from a place of UN certainty or um unfamiliarity with her writings to a place of confidence in the authority inspiration of her writings first thing to do uh is recognize God as the source of all authority from a Christian perspective God is God his word stands and God what God says is the Authority for all of the universe including humanity and uh you know we we read texts in scripture where we see um that there's a way that seems this end is the way of death uh you know that um the beginning of the uh yeah the God God's TR what God reveals you know we we might think we have a human idea or we we want something to be right in our you know we think something's right but at the end of the day we trust in God because he's the great Authority uh Proverbs 3:5 and6 the Lord with all your heart don't lean on your own understanding God is the source of all authority um and uh and so this is really the first step in recognizing any Authority that God is the ultimate source of all authority uh and most Christians are comfortable with this and uh and recognize that God is the ultimate Authority so this is the first step for understanding any inspir inspired Authority and and so that's the first step second one is recognizing the Bible as a revelation of God's will so we know that God communicates to us to humanity uh in sever he we talk about the concept of General Revelation where God reveals himself to humanity in a general creation uh I think of Psalms 19 verse1 the heavens declare the glories of God the skies proclaim the work of his hands as we look to Nature as we look at cre see evidence of God's existence uh and his authority all around us and so God reveals rals to us himself to us through General Revelation but he also reveals himself to us through specific Revelation the of God word and he we looked at what that was in our first session yesterday how God chooses to communicate to humanity he does so in a sense but he does so in a specific sense through His prophets and uh we saw in uh that ever since the fall that God's chosen uh have communicated his people people was through the gift of Prophecy which he sends his angels the Holy Spirit to the angels to the prophet the people and uh and as we as we the second step in recognizing the authority of el White's writings is recognizing that the Bible uh the cannon of scripture is a revelation of God's will to us in specific Revelation and uh you know we think of those text in 2 Timothy chapter 3 uh verse 16 all scripture is inspired comes by inspiration of God and is useful for doctr rebuke action for righteousness uh you know this these ideas we looked at that text yesterday in First Peter chapter 1 verse 19 or second Peter verse 19 I think it was um looking at the idea that uh the uh no prophit uh comes by private interpretation but they speak as they were moved by the holy spirit so the Holy Spirit speaks God sends the message to the prophets and it comes out as God's a revelation of God's will to us through scripture so uh recognizing that the Bible is a revelation of God's will is a very important step in recognizing the authority of el writings why in just a minute so those first two steps are very standard and uh basically who's a Christian will say yes God is the source of all authority and yes the Bible is a revelation of God's will well these two steps are very important steps in establishing and recognizing the authority of Ellen White's writings and uh that this the reason that is the case is because of step three here so the third step is recognizing that the Bible teaches the continuation of the prophetic gift until the second coming of Jesus this is something that we looked at yesterday in our first session we looked at some of the lines of biblical evidence that the Bible which is a revelation of God's will which is the authority coming directly from God the Bible teaches us that the prophetic gift will be present and active in God's Church all the way up to the second coming this is an important step in recognizing The Authority inspiration of White's writings because uh as we this shows us this this establishes and demonstrates for us only reason we believe in the inspiration and authority of Ellen White as as a true bibl as a true Prophet uh that that goes through the Texs and matches up with the biblical test of a prophet is that the only reason we believe that is because the Bible tells us to believe that the Bible tells us to expect to see the gift of Prophecy in the last days and so this is something that we're looking for and look at God's faithful Church uh The Remnant Church uh the God's faithful people at the end of time we see that the Bible describes particularly as having the testimony of Jesus and so this is something that is an important step in a establishing the authority of El's writings and inspiration of her writings we need to recognize one that the God is the source of all authority that he revealed his will to us through his word and through prophets uh that the Bible teaches of God's will the stage of uncertainty to certainty and confidence in them uh is to test the prophetic writings of elen she claims to be an end time Prophet uh we uh test them against scripture and we apply those biblical tests that we looked at yesterday so these steps are steps that we would take ourselves if we are uncertain of the inspiration authority of our writings and and the steps that we would take others who have not been introduced to or exposed to her writings or don't view them as authoritative and inspired and so this is this is how we lead people uh through this process now I want you to notice this um Ellen White was very uh she was sympathetic of the situation that there would be people certain about her writings just by nature of the fact that it hadn't been exposed to them or by conceived that they may have been taught false ideas that the propy shouldn't be we looked at that myth yesterday and so she was sympathetic to the idea that some people would have to people would have to go on a process from uncertain to confidence and notice what she says here in testimonies for the church volume 9 she says I've been shown that some especially in Iowa make by which to measure all and have taken a course which my husband and myself have never pursued some are unacquainted with me and my L and they are very skeptical of anything bearing the name of Visions this is all she says first reaction this is all natural and can but notice what she said it can be overcome only by experience she's referring here to this idea of testing uh which is what we've just talked about those for leading some uh from a place of uncertainty to confidence uh and it can be overcome this unty this skepticism can be overcome by experience by testing going through those steps that we've looked at uh if persons are not settled in regard to the Visions they should not be crowded off those who comparatively strangers to the Visions have been dealt with in the same manner as those who have had much light and experience in the Visions we shouldn't treat people that have um uh you know there's biblical principle in God's word that and not everyone has had the same degree of light revealed to them on on any particular topic and so uh we shouldn't treat strangers to her writings and works as we should treat those who have had it much experience and have had the opportunity to test her writings uh and so there's this you know this um this process by which we hold people accountable to the light that's been revealed to them and some she she goes on she says some have been required to endorse the Visions when they could not conscientiously do so in this way some have been driven to take positions against against the Visions against the body which they never would have taken had their cases been managed with discretion and mercy some of our Brethren have had long experience in the truth and for years uh have been acquainted with me and with my influence of the Visions they've tested the truthfulness of these testimonies and they've asserted their belief in they have felt the powerful influence of the spirit of God resting upon them to witness to the truthfulness of these Visions so we see here this process of uh these people here these have had the chance test G through that certainty and trusted in powerful influence of the spirit the truthful of his Visions then she says if such when reproved through vision rise up against them and work secretly to injure our influence they should be Faithfully dealt with for their influence is endangering those who lack experience so he talks there about uh treating people uh differently holding PE each person accountable to the light that they've been revealed and shown and if people who have been through that test and have established her writings is authorita INS spite of then they find something they don't like or they agree with and they they decide not just to surrender to God's message to them but instead to reject it then that can have a damaging influence on us earlier on in the journey perhaps you've seen that um so the basic idea recognizing that there is a uh process that we lead people through a stepbystep journey uh from uncertainty unfamiliarity writings to certainty and confidence in their inspiration and Authority um some of the uh I guess some of the um errors regarding operation that I've come across and that we should warn ourselves against and just say a couple of comments on as we um as we kind of discuss this topic is uh the idea of degrees of inspiration uh there's a there's an era out there the of el writings but one of those examples that I was being actually um a disadvantage or working against the inspiration authority of her writings some will suggest that there are degrees of inspiration that maybe the Old Testament prophets are more inspired than New Testament prophets New Testament prophets are more inspired than end time prophets and these sorts of ideas and things um this of course is a very unbiblical idea that's not supported in scripture and is not supported by um Ellen White's own claims of her Ministry either and uh and some of the ways that that some uh some of the ways that people get to this is by seeing different categories in prophets and then trying to assign different degrees of inspiration to them now I want to that it is true that there are different categories or types of prophets um but these categories or types of prophets are not different in Inspiration there not different holy spirit that inspired them uh they're just uh serving in different categories so we do see literary canonical um these is prophets that write books of the Bible and they're included they write books and they're included in the Bible these would be Daniel John the Revelator um we also see in scripture uh literary non-canonical prophets prophets books but those books are not included in the Canon of scripture these would be prophets like Nathan aijah Ido um in 2 Chronicles chapter 9:29 there and and these are also inspired prophets of God have authority they have prophetic Authority but they're not they're literary non-canonical prophets they just a different type of prophet uh we also see in scripture non-literary non-canonical prophets prophets who don't write books but who uh and who not only not write books but are not in the Canon of scripture because they don't like write books this would be prophets like John the Baptist he didn't write a book uh but and he so he's not not a non-conical but is uh he was still a prophet Miriam the disciples or the Apostles of Jesus who did not write portions of scripture uh each of these prophets are prophets they're inspired by the Holy Spirit the gift of Prophecy but they categories and uh we don't look at them and say that because they're in different categories they different degrees of inspiration or authority we don't do this um you know Nathan the prophet for example came to David and told David uh that he was that man he told him that Parable he said you're the man and he uh you know he held him to account for um taking bath Sheba uah's wife and you know David didn't say to him no you're not a non-conical prophet so I'm not going to listen to you um no and David by the way was a canonical prophet he was included in the Canon of scripture he wrote books of scripture but he recognized the prophetic authority of Nathan and he submitted as a mess Jesus himself to him and though he was a canonical prophet and Nathan was a non-canonical prophet he submitted to the prophetic author because he recognized that Nathan was in authoritative this is important to understand because um though we there are different categories or types of prophets here they all are inspired by the same Holy Spirit and uh and they hold prophetic Authority and this is important to understand as some people will try to categorize out different prophets and then assign different different degrees of and this is not something we see in scripture statement here from selected messages she says many times in my experience I've been called upon to meet the attitude of a certain class who acknowledged that the testimonies were from God but took that this matter or that matter was Sister White's opinion and judgment this suits those who do not love reproof and correction and who if their IDE crossed occasion to explain the difference between the human and divine she's saying here there um as soon as they come across something that they because they don't like reprove or corre as soon as they come they don't agree with in inspired writings uh they try to discern or distinguish between and divine in her writings she goes on and she says if the preconceived opinions or particular ideas of some are crossed and being reproved by testimonies they have a burden at once to make playing their position to discriminate between the testimonies defining what sister what is Sister White's human judgment and what is the word of the Lord everything that sustains their cherished ideas is divine this is interesting and funny uh and the testimonies that correct their errors are human sister White's opinions they make of none the of God by their tradition again this statement here and you can just see you know perhaps you've seen this you know as you as you know people approach any prophetic writings or in this case the testimonies ill and White's writings and as soon as they see that they with Divine that's good you know that's inspired but and authoritative but as soon as they come across something that corrects them or that um they don't agree with or that you know it rubs against their their own errors and and sinful nature they say oh that part that's just sister White's opinions that's un that's not Authority binding and this elen white says is is this is the process of making of none effect the Council of God by human tradition uh and so you know we we are called against this sort of thing we there are no degrees of inspiration we're not to try to um you know just accept the things that uh we agree with or line up with us if God's word is if if whiteing if she's a true Prophet if she's inspired by the Holy Spirit then we take it all that it's uh it's it's of God whether we agree with it or not and this is a this is a essentially uh basically this is gives the prophetic gift power to change lives to transform people uh if you take away the inspiration and authority of prophetic then you the prophetic gift of the ability to lead transformation and change in people's lives uh we have a huge problem with authority in our modern day culture we don't like Authority we want our one source of authority to be me me me uh this is our fallen nature speaking but uh we need to surrender to God to his authority uh because God is the ultimate source of authority and we need to let that change and transform our lives so that we can become more like Jesus um if we uh if we come across something that we don't agree with or understand some people uh it can lead some people to ask the doubters question this idea of is it true or is inspired um this is this is a doubters question because it uh it's questioning it's doing exactly what we just read in that state trying to divide between the Divine and the human and put a distinction in this inspired writings that God doesn't put there himself uh but what we should be when we come across things that in inspired or in authoritative writings when we come across um things in the tesy of Jesus or scripture uh we should ask Faith questions we should ask the question um I don't understand but I from you and it'll dig us to drive deeper and to study more uh and and to learn and to change and to experience growth in our life and this is what Satan is trying to Rob Rob us of he's trying to cut off that communication between us and God he's trying to in his last great deception trick people so that we make of none effect the testimonies of God cut off God's communication to us cut off his ability to change and transform our lives and cut off his ability to guard us from deceptions and delusions of the last days um I want you to notice this last this is our last slide that on I want you to notice in our fundamental beliefs which um you know as the seventh church we uphold 28 bi beliefs and the 18th is the gift prophecy want you notice what we find in our fundamental beliefs it's important understand what church as young people uh it says the scriptures testify that one of the gifts of the holy spirit is prophecy we looked at that in our first session uh the one the gift a gift of the spirit is prophecy uh this gift is an identifying Mark of the remnant it was manifested history of we looked again at that in our first session her writings speak with prophetic Authority and provide Comfort Comfort guidance instruction and correction to the church they also make clear that the Bible is the standard by which all teaching and experience must be tested we see here again this this statement uh based on scripture based on what the Bible teaches about the prophetic gift that when a true Prophet if someone has the true prophetic gift then they inspired by the Holy Spirit they have the gift of prophet Tes of Jesus about Jesus from Jesus and that therefore it comes with prophetic authority to reject that messenger is to reject Jesus himself uh and and Jesus provides Comfort guidance instruction and correction for his church through etic Messengers and of course we believe this because the Bible is the standard that makes it clear and so friends I want to leave you with this simple idea that God's word leave or the the devil is doing everything he can to try to deceive and to uh as his last great deception make of none affect the spirit of Prophecy but you and I uh we're called to recognize that the of Jesus is the spirit of Prophecy is manifested in the and uh a message from her is a message from Jesus she doesn't speak on her on her own private interpretation she speaks as she was moved by the Holy Spirit and to a messenger of Jesus is to reject Jesus himself friends let's not put ourself in that situation but let's every message that Jesus has for us even if it may go against our human nature because we believe that Jesus wants the best for us and he would not give us any message message or tell us to do anything is not in our best interest to do so I hope that you've been blessed uh we are going to be having a another session in just a few minutes we're gonna have a about a five minute break and then we're going come back and we're going to have a Q&A session one hour Q&A session where we're going to take the questions that you've through to us and we're going to answer those questions live so again the phone in the comments section there please feel free to text or any questions that you have during the break you might think of and uh in about 5 minutes time we're going to come back and we're going to start to walk through those questions God bless you friends we're for our live Q&A session uh and we have been had several questions coming through and have been submitted and so we're gonna have the opportunity now the next hour together to work through some of those questions and I've got the esteemed do Alan Lindsay here who is going to um very kindly share of his time and experience with us so we're very blessed to have a Godly and so let's getting some nudges under the table to move on so um let's pray let's have a word of prayer and then we will uh launch straight into our questions this afternoon Heavenly Father Lord we want to thank you for the privilege that we have to study and to uh encourage one another to share of experience and to learn ask questions Lord we just pray that you would bless us now that your spirit would lead us into truth Lord that you'd give us Clarity and wisdom as we respond and um be with our friends as they hear uh what is shared and uh receive answers to these questions so Lord we just we thank you that your god of reason you say come let us reason together you welcome questions and you encourage us to come to you with our questions and so we're doing that here this afternoon we're seeking answers from your spirit we pray this in Jesus name amen amen Dr Allan um we uh we've got several questions lined up and you're ready to go so um one thing before we launch into our questions that have been sent in uh last yesterday when we had our first Workshop uh our time was cut short because of some complications with um starting off anding these sorts of things and you were unable to share two of your Visions but particularly the salaman vision which I think is such a beautiful Vision that we would love to share with our young people here so I wonder whether we can just ask you to share that salaman vision and just um yeah ask just share a little bit about what that is and why it's insignificant yeah thanks Blair and thanks for that last talk that you gave that was so biblical and so true um salaman Vision to me is one of the most impressive visions of the 4,000 visions that Ellen White had so let me tell you the story of this salaman Vision not October 90 white was speaking meetings on the side of the United States now I put that on the on the screen so you can see the East right hand side and I want you to see um the state of New York there it is on the left hand side on that little line you can see there just to the left of n for New York is NRA Falls to help you to get sort of this in picture and then the state of New York of course is one of the big of the United States now let's have another look at another map which is that in more detail and there you can see there are two Lakes at the top Lake Ontario lake at the bottom Lake and the Niagara Falls you see the the Waters of L the lake andario empty out through Niagara Falls into Lake Erie now that's the state of New York you can see on the right hand side but right down the bottom there is the of salaman and that's the story I want to tell you very quickly so we don't take too much time from the from the questions but this is a wonderful story in 1890 Ellen White was in taking meetings as I said and on Wednesday night October 29 she arrived in salanka and uh she started the meetings but it turned very cold and Ellen White caught a chill and this began to affect her speech but she continued to speak but with increasing difficulty until the evening of Monday November the 3 and that night she returned to her place where she was staying feeling that she couldn't continue her speaking responsibilities and that she should return back to her home in Michigan well she tells in her diary and I have read this diary what happened that evening she was kneeling by her bed to when she became aware and I'm going a quote from the diary that the whole room seemed filled with a soft silvery light and my pain and disappointment and discouragement were removed the Lord had healed her and she added that she was filled with comfort and hope and the Peace of Christ and there after that experience when she was there in that room sensing that the Lord was very near her in that room she was given a vision a very interesting Vision many matters concerning fishing work that the church had started in Battle Creek were opened up to her and other important matters well there you can see on the screen the and I want you to notice the relationship between salanka and Battle Creek let's have a look at where the location of those are there's Battle Creek and there's the salaman now she was in salaman remember and yet she was being a given given of some that were right over in Battle Creek as that's very similar to what as I mentioned the other day uh prophets being shown things that were in very distant places and here the Lord was giving her a vision of conditions in Battle Creek well next morning her son came to visit her and uh he with a local Minister came and he was impressed of course to find his his mother so well after the experience of the night before but during that conversation the next morning Wily white that was her son heard her say I must tell you of the vision I had last night in Sala I seemed to be in Battle Creek and then she stopped and then she had to apologize to her son can't remember I had last well it was so important to her that as the conversation continued again Wily White heard his mother saying I must tell you of that Vision last night it was so important it concerned our work in Battle Creek and I seemed to be in Battle Creek and then she stopped again and he again apologized well during the weeks that followed that Ellen White continued speaking in different places in the eastern states further Visions were given to her building on what she had seen in Battle Creek in that salaman vision and on November the 20th sh about the salaman of vision now I have here the Salah the account for November the 20th 1890 she's now ink City and she writes about the salanga vision and I'm going to read what this account says in the night Seasons I've been present in Council and there I heard words repeated by influential to the effect that if the American Sentinel would drop the words Seventh Day Adventist from its columns and say nothing about the Sabbath The Great Men of the world would patronize it it would become popular and do a larger work and then she wrote this looked very pleasing now explain a little bit about that the American Sentinel in those days was a magazine we were publishing at our Publishing House in Battle Creek concerning the principles of religious liberty and evidently she was she saw in her vision a of a committee meeting where men were the American Sentinel magazine and a considerable number of the men in that committee meeting began to say look we need to drop the word Seventh Adventist from the column the front page we need to drop the articles that are written about the Sabbath our peculiar doctrines did they ever say that because they wanted to make the magazine more popular with receiving the magazine and as Ellen White said this looked very pleasing in this account to say how dangerous that kind of philosophy was well there are many words here in this paper about what she saw in the salaman vision and uh it was certainly an issue that she saw was very well there were angry men involved in what they wanted in fact in one of the Visions saw one man holding up a copy of the American Sentinel high above his head and say unless we remove the name Seventh Adventist and the articles of the Sabbath and other of our doctrines we will take the magazine out of our own publishing house and find another publishing house to do the the printing of it well it was quite an issue some four months go by now notice this four months from November the 3 when she had the vision and Ellen White was attend invited to attend the conference of church held in Battle Creek that year from March the 5th to March 25 1891 the general conference and she came the first afternoon of that General Conference in this church the dime Tabernacle have a look at the size of it it was our largest church Adventist Church in the world it could see 2,200 people and there were many witnesses there believe me that Sabbath afternoon to listen sermon that Ellen White preached she chose as her death text that afternoon let your light so shine before men that they may see your good work Andy your your your are your father in Heaven well as she began she remembered the Holy Spirit was there that afternoon and he remember partly the vision of salamango she knew that had something to do with letting your light shine don't put it under a bush because here at the pulpit that you see in the picture taken inside the dime Tabernacle she spoke to the many people there about letting your light shine well early in the sermon they heard her say I must tell you of the vision I had four months ago in Salamon and then she hesitated and she had to apologize to all those people I can't remember the vision that the lord gave me in salaman and this Photograph was taken of Ellen White speaking there in the dime Tabernacle well the sermon went on halfway through again she tried to recall the vision in salamanda and again she had to apologize and then at the toward the end of a sermon realizing it was so important and relevant to what you were saying don't put your light under a bushel let your light shine so you can glorify your father in Heaven but again she had to apologize well the meeting closed that afternoon and I'm sure that a number of those people who went out of the building must have thought oh we're getting a little concerned about Ellen White because after all she must be starting to suffer from some form of Amnesia or forgetfulness She's forgetting what the Lord had begun to show her that afternoon after the meeting the general conference president came to Ellen White and said to her would you take the Mee meeting in the morning Sunday morning meeting and she said no the people have heard me this afternoon she said get somebody else to take the meeting on Sunday morning well that night listen to what I'm saying that night that Saturday night a group of men met together in Battle Creek in the building of where the publishing house was located and they were there to discuss what should happen to the American Sentinel magazine well they began at 8:00 and went right through 9:00 10:00 11:00 as the meeting went on they became more heated there were two groups of men arguing for their opinion one group was saying didn't you hear Ellen White's sermon this afternoon about the importance of letting out shine and of the danger of of keeping in the background the distinctive features of our faith and there was another group a larger group who would began to say we want to take all those meetings all those references rather to the Sabbath and to the name Seventh Adventist out of the magazine it's going to do a more powerful work if we can do that well they went on and on past midnight 1:00 2:00 3:00 a.m. they be they they realized that they were in a deadlock situation and they at 3:00 they said well unless you behold to our demands for changing the content of the American Sentinel we're going to take the magazine out of the publishing house and give it to another publishing house they were in deadlock but 3:00 that morning an angel was bidden to come to Ellen White's bedside awakened her and told her to prepare the manuscripts that she had written about the Salah man of vision what she had seen she recorded in those manuscripts as she heard it in Vision the very words the people spoke and the attitude that they took and uh she listening to the angel agreed so she prepare next morning about about 5 6 o00 her son was going to the um dime Tabernacle to the morning meeting was surprised to see a light on the candle light in Ellen White's room came into the place where she was staying and he was surprised to see she was going to the meeting after all she said she wasn't going to meeting well she went down to the meeting shter and the general conference president met her he was surprised said I've already asked else she said the Lord has given me a message for the people and she went to the desk and there she reminded the people of what she had seen in this salaman vision I'm going to just read to you what happened that morning when at the meeting had finished and there was a shocked silence they had heard her describe a meeting in detail that had only happened the night before was given to Ellen M white four months before on the night of November the 3D I have here a an eyewitness account of what happened at the end of that meeting then stood up at the back of the room and said I was in that meeting last night and Ellen White who was sitting on the platform said interrupted him and said last night I thought that months ago when it was shown to me in salaman he went on I was in that meeting last night and I'm the man who made the remarks about the articles in the paper holding it high over my head I'm very sorry to say that I was on the wrong side but I take this opportunity to place myself on the right side notice what's happening and another man stood up and he said I was in that meeting last night after the close of the conference yesterday afternoon some of us met in my room in the review office where we locked ourselves in and took up and discussed the questions and the m has been present us this morning we remained in that room until 3:00 this morning morning and Ellen White again realized why the angel had a wakened her at 3:00 that and then this man said this if I should begin to give a description of what took place and the personal attitude of those in the room I could not give it as exactly and as correctly as it has been given by Sister white this morning I now see that I was in error and that the position that I took was not correct from the light that has been given this morning I acknowledge I was wrong you know the New Testament in the book of Ephesians young people tells us that one of the reasons why the gift of Prophecy was given to the church was to bring a unity in the church and that salaman Vision did more than just bring a sense of unity and direction that governed that outlined principles for the American Sentinel and some of our other Publications it also provided amazing confirmation to all those present who knew that Ellen White wasn't at the meeting the night before she wasn't near the place where they were meeting she never knew in fact we have a diary record next day that she wrote where she writes I never knew meeting occurred the night before and what an amazing account that was of how the spirit of Prophecy worked how the Visions the church well I want to ask you a question this morning why couldn't Ellen White remember that Vision five times twice the morning after you remember when she was talking to son about the healing and the vision the night before and then three times Sabbath noon she tried to remember the vision couldn't remember why was the Holy Spirit working in her mind in that way I think the answer is pretty obvious the meeting had not occurred she didn't know about the meeting when it would occurred she thought it had occurred some time before and so the Lord by the Holy Spirit controlled her mind so she couldn't recall it until the night meeting had occurred and the impression therefore that it made upon the people in the general conference at that time well is one of the most outstanding Vision now I've chosen two and one this afternoon three out of 2,000 visions that Ellen White received I could tell you many fascinating stories of so many of those visions that confirm the confirm their faith and also has certainly played a part in confirming my faith and I which wanted to share it with you can confirm your faith in the wonderful leading of the and how God used those Visions to bring messages to his people then and those messages still being brought today all right Blair perhaps we need to go on some questions yeah know that that's um I'm glad we took the chance to just share that Vision it it does have a lot in there um a lot of encouragement for us today a lot of encouragement yeah indeed so we have had a question texted through and uh I'm GNA put it to you here Dr Al it says here a few books published under Ellen White's name are compilations of her on specific B things like a home or Child Guidance um these if I understand correctly were put together after her death and include writings from many different places can you comment books please could you could some of her comments be included in ways that prot take them out of context could some of the comments only have been relevant for the original reading not supposed to be generalized or could the compile you answer you asked that question it's certainly true you remember I mentioned I think yesterday that by the time Ellen White died there were 24 books she had completed and were published and there were two more waiting publication but today there are more than 130 books over Ellen White's pen now we're not suggesting that Ellen White WR those books since she died but she did leave an enormous amount of written material from all those 2,000 visions and before she died the Lord instructed her to a will and in that will she was very careful to plan how her writings could Beed and preserved and to continue to church she set up a special committee who had that responsibility but she also directed that committee to make compilations from writings on different topics subjects that were concerned to the in the future where the Lord in his love for the church dur had presented in those 2,000 Visions information that was not only to be relevant to the times in which Ellen White lived to the church ongoing until said yesterday I concluded with a quotation where Ellen White says said that abundant light had been given to her and that her writings would continue to speak to the church so long as time shall last to be through compilations that were taken from those writings now I should clarify one thing realized this that even in the way the Zar of Ages was written now Ellen White published the Zar of Ages here in kbong in 1898 but that was a compilation now that's referring to the way the book was put together whereas we sometime usually think of a writer writing out a book from chapter 1 chapter 2 chapter 3 chapter 4 and writing it out in in that order sitting there writing that book but compilation of the compilation of Desire of Ages was done very differently Ellen White instructed her secretaries to give all the writings that she had written beforehand and her sermons that she had preached beforehand the things that she had written and that were now on record concerning the Life of Christ and the secretaries brought to started to go through all the records that they had the records of her sermons The articles that she had written for our church papers knowing that all of those as I said yesterday was only were only written on the basis of the visions that the lord gave her that as they began to search and gather together they to put it in order fores and as they worked of course they would bring their work every day to enen White and she would say well now there's I've received more Visions concerning that particular sermon that I preached then and she would write out perhaps a little extra to it to that particular event in Christ's life and so the book desire ages that started in the 1870s but not published until 1898 was compiled from what she had now you say well why did that happened because well partly because Ellen was busy doing so many things every Vision put upon her the responsibility to write letters to people whose lives and problems were opened up to her Envision and so the book the idea of a compilation was not just after the death of Ellen White it happened beforehand with some of those books but all that was written were was written by Ellen White can I just underscore That Never Was anybody else the secretaries were always told you cannot put in your own thoughts into this material when you type right when you use the typewriter to write it out it was all Ellen White's material on those Visions nobody else was ever permitted to add any thoughts of their own that was an obligation put upon her secretaries and then after her death the white State committee that I referred to earlier was uh began to make compilations of books after her death subjects and as I said 24 when she died now 130 over the years the 150 years or the 100 years all nearly since she many many books have been written on a variety of subjects I mentioned a couple of them the other day the retirement years a very recent book Last Day Events a very recent book and many more that are that are wellknown compilations compilations I'm that later in answer to another question context that they were that they check to make sure Ellen White had written these words and that they were checking to make sure that they were not giving counsel to the church that only had a local application but was for the good of the whole church because Church These compilations and so you can be sure when you read the compilations young people that those books that have been written sit by with Ellen White's pen are there written originally by her books that are now being compilations that are being given to the church are books that were compiled from hers and her writings only never was the compiler permitted and I say this again to enter his own thoughts into what was written into in those compilations and great care was taken before the book was published by that large committee who read it through and made sure that it was as faithful to the context and that it was true to all that we know that Ellen White spoke yeah I was GNA I was thinking as well Dr alen that a lot of well the compilations also have the reference from where the original context is taken very important point and so you can always and it's encouraged to do so to check those references are put there to direct you back to the original context to read through exact and to to gain that that understanding to get the principle you know exactly and they were written that way with reference as bar said to make sure that anybody who's reading the compilation could later on check and say oh this book is this is found in the writings way back uh I'll go and get that book to make sure it's accurate and that's why you read always read the reference in in those books to the original writing all right well we have um question that's been sent through from uh stepen aing Ro and it's quite a good one I'm going to read it out word for word because it's it's well well crafted here it says although prophetic Authority and inspiration is binary it's either pres not who fully affirm the prophetic inspiration have difficulty when trying to discern whether specific statements are binding roughly speaking to their own individual context y you know trying to apply this to themselves which is touching on what we were talking a minute ago yeah in other words it has been it has proven easy for many to see her writings as a global prescription a rigid codification of irrespective of the audience she was addressing and without consideration of their historical individual and cultural context how then can we best affirm her prophetic Authority yet still distinguish the applicability of these often bandid about statements so as to not misconstrue her original intent what a what a question that is a question now to answer it I warn you in advance play it'll take me a little while to answer that question because it's raising some very important issues had more than four of these Workshop to of the workshop sessions on this very topic it is important and and excuse me and for me young people if a bit on this one but it is so important and I I'm going to give you some of those problem texts that Ellen White wrote Good Council right Council from visions and yet because some people have taken that councel and ignored some important rules we need to remember for interpreting Ellen White's writings and you might say hold on what about well let me just go back to the Bible we have to have a rules for interpreting a book that's 2,000 years old because things have changed now you may not realize that but we do need some rules there for interpreting the scriptures and they same rules we need to reply to any inspired writings so let me sort of give you some illustrations to help you understand this one of these one of these principles that applies to both the Bible and to our own writing our own times is it is important all that the prophet has written on a before you draw conclusions as to what we should do and how we should apply this statement now let me tell you a story because each one of these principles I'm just going to illustrate by tell telling you a story of a misunderstood statement from Ellen White Dr Roger who was once director of the and associate director of The Ellen White estate tells a story that has always impressed me when he and it concerns young people he tells a story of some young people who had gathered for a great time it was a college picnic and it had rained a bit during the day and but at the end of the day the chaplain of the college group hased that let's bow our heads and thank the Lord for what he has done for us the blessings we've had during the day the fun we've had and a small group of students began to move amongst apart from everybody else who was bowing their heads and they rather ostentatiously knelt on the wet grass in prayer and the chaplain realized that this had upset some of the young people there at the at the picnic and he thought well he better go and check out why they did that as they did in the manner that they did it and they said to him and now listen to this they said to him don't you know Pastor that Ellen White says in the book selected message book number two page 311 kneeling is the proper position all interesting that last word and they said well we've got you said let's pray and kneeling is the propos always so we went and prayed kneeling well that when if you go and find that actual reference you'll it's one of statements in the book selected message that is under the heading our attitude or the attitude in prayer and if people had only read all of that she had written there not one at the beginning nearing is the proposition always they would have come on page 36 this statement it is not always necessary to Bow upon your knees in order to pray cultivate the habit of talking with the Savior when you're alone when you're walking when you're busy with your daily labor let the heart be content lifted in silent petition for help for light for strength for knowledge and then she said let every breath be a prayer a beautiful statement on the fact that we can pray at any time at any place under all circumstances answers but she said at the beginning it is not always necessary to Bow upon your knees in order to pray now if you're listening to what I'm saying you would have stopped immediately and said well hold on you're quoting another statement of Ellen White it is not always necessary to Bear upon your knees in order to pray and then that first in a different setting kneeling is position always is this mean that eleno would herself in her writing that she tells us one thing in one place and another another C or another setting say one or two things about this I wish those young people had decide of all to go to the Bible and have looked at what the Bible said reading all the pr inspired prophets have written found that in the Bible People Prayed in a number of different positions sometimes flat on their face sometimes nearing Solomon at the dedication of the temple invited the people to while he said the Ben addiction if they had written even to Ellen White's Ellen White estate over in America or to the local Research Center here in Australia and said what was Ellen White's practice herself they would have found that sometimes she she prayed for hours while lying on her bed at other times we know that she stood standing saying the Ben at the end of some of her meetings now this raises the Dodge of course was hypocrite was she telling the church to do things that she herself wasn't doing herself before we draw that sort of unfortunate conclusion if they had read all that she said and then read in the context that is when Ellen White wrote kneeling as the proposition always what was she talking about in the paragraph that she was writing now I got to say more about context in a moment but if they had looked at that and read all the that is not always necessary for you to pray kneeling on your knees then they would have realized that in that nearing is the proposition always she was talking about the reverence in on a Sabbath morning when the pastor or an elder or someone else is up front and leading the congreg before God whom they are there to worship she says nearing is the proper position all on that occasion now even then she would have said and meant it's the pre preferred position because I know and I know from my own experience it gets more difficult to kneel as you get older take it from me young people stay young because there are some disadvantages to getting old it would be the preferred position but the best position do those circum when the whole congregation is coming they come to worship God Ellen White says kneeling is the proposition always but then she modifies that in that other quotation I I gave to you and so that's an important example of Ellen White and one valon white statements that's taken in isolation and we don't look at other things that balance and why they need to be balanced what let me let me give you another illustration in uh 1872 Ellen White wrote this parents should be the only teachers of their children until they reach eight or 10 years of age it's found in the third volume of testimonies page 137 now I've had some well-meaning parents come to me with that statement and said does that mean to say that I've got to keep my child home from school until they're eight or 10 age Ellena white says it we should shouldn't we so the what I'm saying on this one Ellen White's um explanation we have of this statement some years later it was given to her in 1872 or she gave it in 1872 but when we come down 194 they had a board meeting at one of our churches just near her home in Elms Haven because they wanted to start some in the church wanted to start a new classroom for children of five and six yearold children the school they had started there was for older children and it caused quite a d an argument among the church some said yes let's do it because the other children running in the neighborhood they're not supervised and the church said well we have an obligation to to care for those children but there was others in the church who said no lmy says par should be the only teacher of their children until they're eight or 10 well that night for that board meeting I had the advantage that Ellen White just lived down the street down the stretch and they invited her to come meeting and the what happened that night is very considered very very special so special that it's been recorded in one of the books of selected messages you can read the whole event that I'm about to summarize very quickly with you Bas Ellen White made the comment that if every mother listen to this condition if every mother was capable of of teaching their children they could be kept home longer but some able to do that and some are unwilling to do that and she said well then the church has an obligation to care for the neglected children we should start a school room or build a school room for the children five and six years of age an interesting conclusion do you know what she said at that time time she said to the board meeting who was meeting to consider this question God wants us to deal with the sensibly that's interesting sense to consider some of the statements that Ellen White has made but then she said a very important statement that we want to remember in this context she said she had made the statement in 1872 when we had no Seventh Day Adventist schools do the circumstances matter do they alter conditions alter the way we consider a statement Ellen White says yes they do in another place he says circumstances change the relation of things and so it's important therefore to take into account the circumstances of a of a particular statement to make sure that we don't draw the wrong conclusions because they built a classroom for those children of five and six years of age and therefore as I've told this story to parents who are concerned does that me say we shouldn't go to C our school should not be operating kindergarten classes school children being six and seven being taught no it doesn't mean that because Ellen White has self what she and she said well let me since I've raised a matter of context let me give you a uh an interesting statement and an interesting story that really was comes to be actually acted out that way here in kurin bong so let me give you the background I'm telling the story about a man called Dr chis K WS he was a conscious seventh ad doctor living in the late 1800s and he was always concerned to read what Ellen White says and to put it into practice and and uh one day he came across a statement that Ellen White had written back in 1869 this is what she wrote it's today found and testimonies page 400 egg to two parents and she wrote eggs should not be placed on your table they are an injury to your children well he read that statement and said well if it was good enough for those parents it's good enough me I'm not going to eat another egg and as you read later on some questions that were raised milk he decided to cut milk out of his diet and a few other articles of diet as well that was in the late 1800s one Dr chis was invited to come from America where he lived to Avendale a college had started just three or four years before this but they had decided to build a health retreat in kurin bong just opposite where the present Memorial Church stands and uh this was a precursor if I could put it that way to the Sydney Adventist hospital that was not yet to be built for another couple of years and so they built this health and wanted a director and they heard of Dr cres in America and how conscientious he was and how committed he was to the church and to the writings of Ellen White and they said let him be our leader well he came ear 191 but within a couple of Dr chrest developed pernicious anemia pernicious anemia in those days was incurable no one knew what caused Pious anemia and it was a death sentence once you got it and he was diagnosed with this pernicious anemia however in California in Ellen White's home in May 19001 Ellen White one night was given a vision concerning Dr Crest and the physical condition that had come over him since going across to Australia and she wrote out a very interesting letter which today you can find in the book of Ellen White's Council on and Foods page 204 but I'm and some of this will surprise some of you I think she wrote to CR and said do not go to extreme which is interesting in regard to health reform get eggs of healthy vows use these eggs cooked or raw drop them uncooked into the best unfermented wine you can find grape juice this will supply that which is necessary for your system Do Not For a Moment suppose that it will not be right to do this I say that milk and eggs should be included in your Di diet you're in danger of taking too radical a view of Health reform and of prescribing for yourself a diet that will not sustain you eggs can prop which are remedial agencies in counteracting poisons a surprising letter DRC Crest was very surprised when he received this letter it's interesting that Ellen White had written she didn't write at the end of the letter with written out a a letter to somebody she would pass it across to the secretaries who would type it out and then she would sign her own name at the end sometimes she added something before she signed a name and it's interesting in this letter to Dr Cris she wrote that what I have told you in this letter was opened up to me in Vision last night did she know about Dr Cris and the problems she had and the question that would have come into his mind now that he read read this letter and remembered that alen white had written eggs should not be placed on your table back in 1869 to two parents because they're an injury to your children and therefore she wanted him to make sure this was something that she was passing on from the lord well Dr CR says that he did that he took he removed eggs and milk from his diet he um put eggs rather into grape juice and drank the mixture that's the way he used it andat some years later he wrote another letter to by this time White had died but he wrote a letter to the white estate to tell about his experience with Ellen White's Council many years before and he wrote in his 82nd year in 1944 when he was going to die in 19001 about the blessing that has come to him in following the eggs dropped into grape juice and drinking the but my grandmother actually wanting me when I was very young called an eggnog and what was an eggnog it was dropping an egg into grape juice and drinking the mixture I found it not too easy to take my grandmother's counsel drinking a raw egg and grape juice was not high in my preferences however that was the count Dr CH received that's what he did that's what he did and do you know that instead of dying in 191 Dr chest lived to 1956 and he died in the at the age of 94 but and listen to this in 1948 the world discovered that the cure for pernicious 1948 many years after 19001 when that advice had eggs of healthy vows and they discovered that the Cure pernicious anemia was a lack of vitamin B12 in the system and that eggs would help to overcome the effects of pentious emia a remarkable story of Dr Chris and of course if you come to kurong today you would know that the a time that's been built is called Crestville named after that doctor and reminding us of the experience that that he had in those early days well how's my time I can still yes tell you one more perhaps because it was a that last story of course was an example of somebody who read what Ellen White said but didn't take into account the context she was writing to two parents with children with certain problems and it applied to them you know some people some of our people sort of realize that everything Ellen White said is applicable to the whole church wherever they live no matter what circumstances they find in their lives not true we've got to use remember what he said there uh to the church over the parents should be the only teachers he said God wants us to deal with these problems the other things all of the are scripture exactly exactly uh I I think that's a good point a very important point to make because Ellen White throughout her Ministry was only applying principles of scripture now I notice I say principles of scripture because circumstances have changed even since scriptural times and when Paul wrote your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit don't take anything into the body that's going to destroy the Hol destroy your your body he didn't know anything about smoking so Ellen White takes that PR principle that's outlined in the Bible and under inspiration gives counsel concerning smoking that as I said yesterday was so appeared so irrelevant and soical describing smoking as a cure for bronchitis and we've got to distinguish that leads me to my last point that I really want to make in relation to this very good question and that is the important point that when you interpret Bible all the writings of illen white you must consider prophets either right principles or they apply principles to something that they want a message to get across to the people from from the Lord and let me that sounds a bit odd so let me just explain for a moment if we remember that a principle has been defined in my as an unchanging rule of human conduct it applies to all people everywhere and so there are some things that are principles that no matter what your circumstances are those things being principles are important very important but then of course every principle can has to meet the circumstances of Life in different occasions at different times in human history and so prophets sometimes and this is true of Bible prophets as well and I could give you examples of that in Scripture that Brothers prophets had to apply the principle to a particular condition that they're meeting now let me give you an example to make sure that you're understanding me in the book education that was published uh from abandale in the late 1900s Ellen White wrote that girls should be for to harness and drive a horse now there's a clear statement Ellen White say girl should be she's giving instruction that the Lord given given her to pass on to our teachers particularly at aale but it eventually that statement lands up in the book education girls should be taught to harness and drive a horse now I don't want to disillusion any of you or disappoint you but uh having been dendale for many years I know that they not teaching the girls to harness and drive a horse why not because circumstances have changed and the application of the principle that Ellen White was illustrating even there would be given in another way now let me tell you what I explain to you what I mean there but what's the principle behind Ellen White saying girl should be taught to harness and drive a horse the principle that remember is an unchanging rule of human conduct applies everywhere at every time the principle behind that is that girls should be given a practical education to prepare them for life that's the principle and that's always been true as far back as people have really stopped to think about what education should be for to prepare people for life now that's the principle if Ellen White was alive today she would remember the same principle but she wouldn't say to the teachers at abdow College the teach the girls to harness and drive a horse she would say if she wanted to be specific to the gender the girls should learn how to use a computer they may be taught how to change a tire in a car how to drive a car that's applying the principle that education should prepare us for the responsibilities of life well that's important in interpreting Ellen White so so much that's it's it's at this very point that I'm illustrating now that when I said that the writings of Ellen White and Blair has said the same thing the writings of Ellen White are the testimony of Jesus and they still speak to the church today that's I read it session yesterday Abundant Life that Ellen White wrote has been given and that uh these writings that have been given me Lord shall speak to the people shall so so long as time shall last how shall I speak so long as time should last when the circumstances have changed because we should look at the the idea that is being told us by the prophet and say and now is this a principle or is he applying a principle and if she's applying a principle we live under different circumstances how do we apply the same principle to today that's the question we must ask and it's in answering that question I believe young people that Ellen White's right still speak to the church today and will continue to speak to the church so long as time shall last if I can will give you a question to think about and you can answer in your own minds was vegetarianism a principle that she advocated in that First Health Vision I talked about yesterday was vegetarianism a principle or an application of a principle now remember principles rules of unchanging conduct applications apply the principle to different times maybe in in the world's history and therefore was vegetarianism a principle if it was Jesus violated it himself because remember he wasn't a vegetarian he ate the best food available and I guess the principle that is behind question that is eat the best food available for Optimum Health that's the principle and a person living in the middle of Africa and somebody living in the Arctic as an ESO esimo might apply that principle in a different way eating the best food available to maintain Optimum Health but in the western world where there's plenty of fruit and Grains and nuts and vegetables the best food available to put into our body is the Temple of the holy spirit is keeping on to plant foods and not in in terms of eating the Flesh and so it's an application of a principle and I believe that that application of that principle we must remember the principle behind it eat the best food available to maintain that's a good answer Dr Alan and um you know I was just thinking as you were sharing that um you know where some might be quick to uh dismiss Ellen White's prophetic writing as irrelevant to our culture and our time because they were written in the 19th century as opposed to 21st and all these sorts of things we would do well to remember that the Bible Y is even older dismiss that and say it's irrelevant right because of a so it's all about as you were pointing out that taking those principles and applying them to whatever time period and wherever you're living whatever geographical location well we have time for a few more questions in the last remaining 10 minutes and I want to share this one or put this and maybe there's probably about four or five here that we can just try to maybe give some shorter responses there's a question here that's been this written out were all of Ellen White's writings inspir for example grocery lists letters to fam steps to Christ Etc yeah you're right I think partly I guess you might have could have answered that yourself now that we've talked about some of the things we have talked about but it's certainly very evident that all of Ellen White's writings were not inspired I mean she was a she was a friend she was a wife she was um had to bring up the children that she that she had and therefore she had to deal of of common living if I could put it that way uh she loved to talk in her letters sometimes about the garden she was a great Gardener and she loved to to plant some foods and and vegetables and flowers and she would write about this to her friend she would write to her grandchildren at time I can remember reading one letter where she sent across a box of lollies to her grandchildren and said don't eat them all at once well she was a grandmother and she did grandmotherly things and on a I remember looking out the window and seeing a bush fire Rangers near here kurin bong and she comments about this there were times when she just had to write what she referred to as common letters dealing with common things and those are never to be taken inspired well you that raises a question I guess and you might say well how do we know the difference between common letters and inspired letters Ellen White herself answers that question for us in one of her letters when she wrote that whenever she's speaking about the work of the Holy Spirit on the hearts and women that of course occupied a great deal of her time in her letters and her books or whenever she's giving counsel to any of the Lord's institutions our schools our hospitals our publishing houses they had been established by the Lord as a result of the Visions given to Ellen White for her for them to do so then whenever she's talking to our institutions giving counsel whenever she's writing to somebody about the work of the Holy Spirit on their hearts giving spiritual counsel those times are to be considered as inspired writings and I've had access as director of the in and white res and at 16 years of age but the the two oldest boys they lived on and became Ministers of the church and Edson White uh he was um the the brother to Willie white the other one that I've mentioned before and she writes one day a letter to Edson white and in that letter it's an interesting letter to read the whole letter is a common letter she talks about the family the things that we would share as as family members to somebody who's who's away in distance from us and keeping them up to date with developments what's happening in the in her home uh in her garden etc etc the the very next day she writes another letter to Edson and she says at the beginning of it yesterday I wrote to you a common letter about my family and conditions here in Kuran bong but today I pass on to you instruction from the Lord and the whole of the rest of that letter is a letter on how he was to meet the problems that he was very much meeting because he was the first Adventist minister to be uh to be called to go to the south of the United States where the American blacks had Rec released from slavery and people white men who objected to this Rule and they lost their black slaves they treated anybody who came with a white skin to try and do anything good for the blacks was an enemy and the several times Edson wife when Edson had his own life threatened and Ellen White's son is down there as the first Advent master and she writes some wonderful CS to guide him and that second letter that day to help guide him to how to meet the problems that he was meeting down there among the Americans at in the living in the South yeah so it's not not designed to be a complicated thing to distinguish between common and sacred and you know God God makes it um takes the onus upon himself to make it clear what and what's so there's so many more here that we to get to um but I do want to just finish with perhaps one more uh and there's this question here why is there so much opposition to alen White if she is a true Prophet well it's true as you anybody who's looked at the computer the internet you would know that there are a lot of things you can read there that are against Len white disillusion ministers are there to write against the church and Len White right I would like to just remind you out of the way you've worded that question this and say this PA Prophet she's going to receive much opposition now why do I say that because I would remind you as I think about this that when I look at prophets in the bible practically every one of them Daniel was a bit of an exception but he he had opposition because he was cut into the lions Dan you remember but every prophet in the Bible had opposition can I just remind you of these three texts Steven who was stoned you remember very Marty the Christian faith in the sermon he preached speaking to the leading people in the government of Israel who were about to Stone him speaking to them he used the question and you'll find this in the acts the book of Acts chap 7:52 where he said he cried this out to these leaders which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute they knew they knew I think even of Jesus and Jesus said in Matthew chapter 23: 29 and 30 he said to the religious leaders of his time you kill the prophets when they're among you but when they've died you Monument to them wow wow you kill them when they're among you hard time why because they are speaking the words that God is sending the people to sometimes to convict him and they don't like it and they rise up against it to kill the prophet and so that too reveals what I'm saying in 2 Chronicles 26:15 and 16 the Bible tells us and this is written just before the the destruction of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar when he came and destroyed the city of Jerusalem the Bible says that God sent prophets to his people but in 2 Chronicles 26 it says the people mocked the prophets mocked prophets scoffed at prophets I'm quoting and then the text says until there was no remedy that's an interesting verse in other words what's it saying God sent Prophet after Prophet to warn the people of what's coming upon them if they refused and rebelled against God and he sent prophets to them to deliver his message the messages that God wanted them to turn them from their evil ways that the Bible says they responded and mocked the prophets until there was no remedy and and dear young people serious situation in your life and mine if we suffer from something when there's no remedy we're stuck with it as it were and it could destroy us no remedy to make us better and that was the condition of the people mocking the prophets of God so to answer your question certainly Ellen White's received a lot oftion a lot of scoffing a lot of lies told about her please be that if anything you with anything that you have read or this you see on the internet would you write to the research center here in kurong located at avow college and ask them what is the truth about this is this statement true please don't hold on the statement and let it worry you and trouble you and cause you to lose faith and confidence in all that Blair and I have shared with you in these in this Workshop because there are answers now there are a lot of answers on the Ellen White official website and that's a website that you should know exists and gives answers to a lot of questions that have been raised against Ellen White but please my last appeal to you is don't let anything you read that you say is if this is true then Ellen White's not right she's not a true Prophet don't let anything get to you seek for the answer because I have found in my Ministry and in dealing with the white State years that there are answers and those answers are genuine and true H it's the testimony of Jesus pleas emphasize that and I want to listen to what says keeping in mind those principles we talked about today the testimony of which the devil is angry at the church over that so these attack all the prophets really almost actually an evidence for a true prop some that's right that's why I said that because white is a true Prophet yeah you can expect opposition yeah that's true so we want to thank you for joining us unfortunately don't have time for any of the other question been sent through but we trust that this will just be the beginning of your interest in seeking uh questions and asking questions and finding answers about the gift of Prophecy and uh we want to just have a word of prayer with you as we finish and pray that God would bless your journey as you continue to uh seek the testimony of Jesus the messages that Jesus gives to you through let's pray together he father we thank you for the time we've had together we thank you for the testimony of Jesus given to the remnant Church of Bible prophecy faithful end time people we thank you uh that you have not held back any given the church that it needs have and thrive in the times that we're living Lord we know that the devil's out there trying to perform his last great deception to turn Minds away from the spirit of Prophecy from the gift the testimony of Jesus and we just pray that uh we would be guarded against those deceptions and would look to Jesus follow his voice follow the lamb wherever he goes uh we pray this things in Jesus name amen amen amen God bless everyone and we will see you in the other session well [Music]