dispatch founder and editor Steve Hayes on the 2024 gun debate and how the Georgia school shooting might change it that and more on this episode of the weekly reload [Music] podcast all right welcome ladies and gentlemen to another episode of the weekly reload podcast I'm your host stepen Kowski I'm also a CNN contributor and founder of the reload.com where you can head over and sign up for our free newsletter today if you want to keep up to date with what's going on with guns in America you can also of course buy a membership if you want to support our reporting and get access to exclusive pieces of Journalism you will not find anywhere else um this week we are talking about the election and the state of gun politics in the election and to do that uh we have one of my favorite writers and uh man who runs an outlet that I uh write for and enjoy a Steve Hayes of the dispatch is with us this week welcome to the show Steve Hey Stephen good to be with you thank you so much for for joining us uh you know obviously I've been on your show a couple of times written for the dispatch uh we've had the dispatch we've had some dispatch writing in the reload so uh you know there's there's a bit of symbiosis there and and I think we have a similar Mission and worldview in terms of uh focusing on hard news reporting first and and uh and bring as honest analysis as we possibly can well let me just let me just say um to to that point I mean congratulations on everything you've built I it's been pretty incredible we had a a nice long lunch I don't know what that was now four five years ago four years ago something like that where we talked about all this and this was just sort of a dream of yours and to see what you've made of it um and and to see how you've managed to to keep in a in a media environment where you know clicks and outrage um are always the tempt to see that you've prioritized real reporting and fact-based Analysis um really a credit to you and to to your style of Journalism and uh just give you my congrats no I really appreciate that and look you know you know this because we talked before I launch but the dispatch is one of the outlets that I think Blaze the trail in this Independent Media landscape and inspired me to go and do this so uh the reload wouldn't exist if if you guys hadn't been successful to in uh taking a similar approach to what you're doing so I I really appreciate that as well and it's been great to you know collaborate occasionally for sure um but so let's let's get into the state of the race right 2024 election Donald Trump Camala Harris um gun politics has actually become somewhat St while this race has been kind of wild and all over the place uh the gun politics I think have become fairly stabilized at this point since Kam Camala Harris took over her campaign walked back her previous support for a mandatory buyback of AR-15s and similar Firearms you know so-called assault weapons um but she's generally stuck with essentially what the Biden campaign was doing Universal background checks red flag laws um and an assault weapons ban ban on sales uh and she's kind of kept that as her a significant part of her campaign was in the platform had a whole section on it um and she they had a a night where they talked about gun control at the convention um not the top priority by any means I don't think I don't know that it's any different than the last couple of Democratic presidential election Cycles but uh but certainly a significant part of what she's running on and then on the other side you've had Donald Trump who has uh you know been um more quiet on the issue I don't think he's changed policies necessarily but the RNC the the platform didn't have they they took out a lot of the gun rights promises on the policy side didn't have a gun rights speaker or or night like the Democrats did Trump didn't mention it in his speech they've stayed relatively quiet and that's kind of been the state of play and I'm interested in where why you think things have gone in that particular direction yeah I think you've characterized it exactly right I mean I would say that K Harris has basically what we might regard as sort of standard issue Democrat gun policy right um and and in that sense she is just mostly promising to continue what the Biden Administration has done um and you know when when they talk about it they look to contrast their positions with those of the Trump Administration with Donald Trump in particular with the NRA of course um and uh otherwise haven't made it a big issue I read your piece from Over the week about the possibility um that a mass shooting could change the dynamic if if we um had one and you know I think the polling that you captured in that analysis is right it's just isn't been hasn't been for the better part of this year in part I think due to the absence of mass shootings it's not an issue that when you ask Americans sort of what's top of Mind as you think about voting this isn't one of them um I think that could change um in the event of a you know a significant mass shooting I mean this is when you see the kinds of policy changes we have these debates sort of in fits and starts and it's often reactive and responsive um I think you know in the event that we did have something like that you could see changes and and I think certainly you'd see the number of people responding to pollsters asking that question what matters to you most would be higher in the event of of a you know a mass shooting that that took many lives for instance and on on the Trump side yeah go ahead well obviously there there was the school shooting that happened this week and and I do want to get that talking about that as a potential to be that thing that changes this Dynamic um for a number of reasons but but yeah I just zering in on that how gun politics tend to go like you know how things have usually gone over the years uh when looking at especially gun polling right um it it tends to be sort of a middle of the pack issue right is that how you would quantify or how you've seen it in the past yeah I think that's right I mean I think the people who are the people who are passionate about the issue I mean in some ways and I know you've made this comparison before in in asking questions in some ways it is the politics of of guns like the politics of abortion the people who um care about a deeply you know can be single issue voters uh on the matter and um you know I think we're seeing in this moment in a in a um a political world after the dobs decision uh abortion become more relevant to people because of what has happened because of the changes to the law and the changes that uh the people are elected officials are talking about you see similar things in in gun policy and the the the extent to which it's a driver of voting behavior reflective on events and and potentially bigger changes in in laws okay so uh this sort of I guess stagnation to some degree that we've gotten in the race on I mean I look our gun politics have generally been stagnated for about 30 years right arguing over a lot of the a macro level yeah policies that we've been arguing about since the 90s right so weapons banss Universal background checks uh red flag laws is a little newer but right uh even that seems to have mostly stabilized uh with people on either side of the issue uh but you know in particular this I don't know what do you think especially about the one thing that I've seen in this race since the conventions at least that's a bit interesting a bit odd is the lack of emphasis on Donald Trump's part you know he hasn't been totally silent on it but he hasn't talked much about it um and like you know I just mentioned what happened at the the convention itself it hasn't been a it hasn't even been the same level of priority that Harris has had which and I don't think Harris is making it her big policy issue um I think she's doing a pretty St like like you said it's where de where she is is where Democrats are now it's it's left to where they were 15 years ago but it's it's where most of the party is at um but Trump uh yeah what do you make of the silence that one's a little bit puzzling me I'm interested in your your view we have to look at everything through the prism of the assassination attempt right which took place just days before the Republican party started and you know if you have an assassination attempt of of a high-profile elected official you might expect to see calls for forur the restrictions um on gun ownership on back you know all of I think we would see sort of a revitalization of the art arguments that Democrats have been making for a long time in light of something like that just as often happens uh in the aftermath of of mass shootings but I think in this case uh because it was Donald Trump he certainly wasn't going to be the one to say uh hey I think we ought to you know Implement additional restrictions we ought to revisit some of the the policy debates that we've had um because I think that's not where his base of of Voters is and for kamla Harris I think in that context that wasn't the argument that she wanted to to make I mean or or maybe it's better to say that that wasn't the context for the arguments that she probably does want to make um given that it was an assassination attempt on on President Trump so I think you had this this sort of strange moment where both sides said you know what that we're not going to do Politics on this this thing and and you know to a certain extent I would like to believe I sort of the the The Optimist in me the pan in me um would like to believe that's because of the gravity of the situation itself maybe compelled some level of restraint but um it's hard to it's hard to think that way I mean I think they all sort of checked their political interest and said there's not really much to be gained by engaging in this debate in this context so we're going to leave it alone and I think that's what they did there was there was an attempt or at Le there were the general press releases and comments that you'd see from gun control groups in this in this but it wasn't a major push certainly and you know it's interesting though so so you think that it was more Trump being res understanding that his voters would not like uh him to change policies on guns that that kept him from doing that in the aftermath uh of I mean he did get shot like it was Z but he got shot by an some with an AR-15 um he has previously in his private life before politics supported uh ain's ban right there's New York times reporting that said he considered supporting one after El Paso but didn't do it because he would advised it would be you know politically disadvantageous for him like his supporters wouldn't like it and so you think that's I mean that would make sense for why he didn't hasn't changed yeah I think he's I mean's he's attuned to what his supporters want I mean we're seeing this weird on on a macro level sort of moving beyond gun policy debates we're seeing this weird convergence of the party's policy prescriptions um we have had um you know whether it's Kam Harris remaking herself into a border hawk or Donald Trump touting his willingness to protect the quote unquote Reproductive Rights of women using the language of the pro-choice movement but we've seen this sort of on issue after issue after issue um and a lot of that I think comes on the Republican side of this because Donald Trump doesn't have very strong convictions on Poli you know we we know the issues he really cares about right he really cares about immigration I think it's fair to say he really cares sort of he's passionate about trade issues um but I don't think he's passionate about abortion to use the the one that we spoke about just a moment ago and I don't think he's passionate about Second Amendment um issues I think his his sons are uh in a way that their dad is not but I don't think this is an issue that really moves Trump I think we saw that throughout the Trump Administration I think if you look back at the the Trump Administration from the perspective of um Second Amendment Advocates you would say yeah the guy more or less ended up where we thought he probably would and where most people would like most Pro Second Amendment um activists and voters would like but there were moments where we saw him sort of sometimes Muse aloud about going in another direction or being open to restriction that um you know most Republicans would have rejected in the past and I think that's because he's this is just not an issue where he pays a lot of attention and where he has sort of deep convictions on the issue so that would be another reason to explain in part in addition to the fact that we haven't been having these debates because we haven't seen as many mass shootings um over the course of 2024 in this this election year but also Trump's just lack of conviction on the issue I think does compel him to speak about it um if he doesn't need to that's interesting but yeah because that's you know if he's not changing his policy positions because of concern about backlash from his supporters um what you why is he keeping quiet on it because that feels to me like a play similar to the the abortion play um yeah you know politically where you're he's trying to appeal to a certain kind of voter you know Suburban women right might be the target a broad demographic of people who are uncomfortable with Donald Trump uh and are are probably distinct from the Republican party on the issue of abortion and gun rights um so that that feels like that would be the play but um I don't know he's also not actually changing his positions it doesn't appear uh so far it's just I mean I don't know he may end up in the same place but you know I think over the last week he's had about four different positions on abortion yeah on abortion that's what I mean like that's the counter like look what he's doing there he's actually moving around his position uh maybe a bit haphazardly but he's he seems to be trying to triangulate some sort of almost like a Simpson scene of you know tiny American flags for for everyone abortions for some everybody else uh he's not doing that with guns I don't I don't describe to him a a a lot of strategic thinking on this honestly I think for the most part what he's doing is articulating um his point of view in the moment um you know based on an interview question that he gets or based on where his mind takes him during a rally speech um he will sort of create policy and of course he was famous for doing this while President talked to people who worked for him and particularly worked on the communication side of him you know they would he would have a a set policy prescription sometimes they would be doing a policy roll out at the White House with members of Congress engaged and the White House comm's team having done you know days or weeks worth of prep work on a certain policy and then Trump will say something entirely different and everything is blown up everything is upset and then it's a scramble to try to sort of reinterpret what he means that's my sense of what he's been doing on abortion here I me I think he's sort of generally aware that in the Statewide referenda and in some of the polling I think he now sees this as more of a liability than a strength and thinks you know in a fact I've done um a lot of the heavy lifting that the pro-life Community asked me to do during my four years as president and I don't owe him anymore so I'm gonna say whatever the heck I want and then he says it um I it wouldn't surprise me if we saw him do something similar on guns I just don't think he's being asked to do it or pressed to do it right now yeah I mean cuz that you know I wrote a piece for the dispatch in May I guess it was that you know with the the idea that he could absolutely go the same route with gun rights supporters that he's going with Pro do you think I'm stealing all my material for but you know that's the the the odd thing about it to me is that he's he's just not doing that and like the thing that piece is from May right and it was pretty obvious what he was doing with Pro lifers uh back in may like he telegraphs this stuff yes pretty long out when he makes these these kinds of changes he still really hasn't settled on a a hard position on on abortion at this point you know he went back and forth over the the Florida referendum um and yeah there is a big difference between how prolifer the prif issue has performed at in bout initiatives in red States you know even losing in Kansas places like that and and proun initiative or B gun ballot initiatives the gun control initiative barely passed in in Oregon this year a deep blue State uh Kansas had a a proun one that passed with huge numbers so it's not the same obvious uh decay in in support or you know it's it's the looking at it from a political standpoint it's easier to see why he's more nervous about the pro-life issue than the gun issue but he's kind of it's just it's just kind of an odd position and I do think you see what you described there with uhh this this idea that whoever talked to Trump last might be able to plant whatever a seed of an idea in his head that they'd like and I think you one of the things that Trump has been consistent on with uh gun voters lately or gun owners is that they he's said this idea that they don't vote that seems to come up a number of times uh over the last couple of months from Trump and it's something that seems to have come from his co- campaign uh chair Chris lasv who who was quoted saying exactly that same thing in a notice article about an event at the RN during the RNC um and I don't know I mean is that just I don't understand the I guess the political calculation if you think they don't vote um would you talk about it to make a vote right yeah would you make an argument yeah them up and go with a more moderate position on the I I just am a little bit fluxed about where why they're doing this sort of quiet campaign instead yeah I mean I I I think it it could be and again there are I mean these these parallels are not exact in any of the situations that we describing about but I mean um the way you laid out the comparisons between between abortion politics and gun politics in that piece for us and as you've done uh for the reload I I think none of the comparisons are exact but they're certainly overlapping and I think persuasive I think if you look at where Trump is right now I mean you're you're seeing this they've you he's going back and forth I think he's trying to figure this out on the question uh of abortion he he has largely I think taken for granted that pro-life voters will support him because I think the assumption is look at KLA Harris um right she's you know you could describe her as an abortion Enthusiast right she is a very strong pro-choice politician her running mate has talked about needing to be sort of reigned in by Nancy Pelosi because he was so excited about abortion and I think if you're you're the Trump campaign you look at that and say like where are pro lifers going to go what are they going to do you know and they're they're not going to stay home because he's he made good on his court appointments on uh you know on the Supreme Court overturning row which is something that he said and he brags about and then he sort of walks away from him a little bit tries to create some distance I think the same thing is happening uh with gun owners I mean yeah are gun owners going to move and Mass to the candidate who's promising Universal background checks and you know called for confiscation of AR15 15 she may have W her campaign may have walked that back but everybody knows what her her history is on that she said in the past pretty consistently which is different than what she's said now as she's trying to be elected so I think you know from their perspective they're saying yeah this we don't need to campaign on this I think the question you're in a better position answer this certainly than than I am is um you know does this relative silence on the issue could that leave um low propensity gun owners to say ah I'm staying home I'm not going I think that's the risk if you're the Trump campaign not that you're going to see some movement to because he's not talking enough but like do you get people who say like man he's not even talking about the issues I care a lot about and it's it's therefore not worth my time to go vote yeah and look maybe there's their campaign may be a little more sophisticated about than what uh than what we've gotten into here like he's not talking about it in high-profile moments in the in his I mean it's kind of wild that he went a whole hour and a half in his acceptance speech and didn't mention it gun Pol you know gun policy a single time time uh at all but um you know I think in moments where he's speaking to Gun Owners specifically like NRA events um you know he he's not going to he's going to continue to make the same promises is what it seems like and so maybe they're just trying to deemphasize it in moments that uh people who aren't watching specifically for gun Pol policy are you know paying attention to the high-profile stuff um and then just more focused on gun owners they're going to be but I this is what just it's just a bit odd because it's like if you really think gun owners don't vote um and that's an issue for your campaign because gun owners are largely inclined to support Trump over Camala Harris given the policy differences uh yeah you would think going out and trying to win their votes would be the and it's look I mean it's it's an odd thing to say also because when you look back at the history of Grassroots movements of gun owners and what they've done to to get people to the polls I mean it's just sort of counter historical honestly now maybe that's a reflection of their current polling or what they're seeing in terms of of Base motivation um but it's an odd I think it is an odd thing to say it is it's an odd thing to be the one of the more prominent talking points on on guns for your policy for your for your campaign right right I um but so you said earlier that one of the reasons you think maybe he's not changing positions or not talking about this as much is because there just hasn't been a lot of emphasis on the issue there hasn't been a lot of pressure for him to to change um positions or try to moderate uh you know obviously the race has changed significantly since Harris took over the top of the ticket right uh he's trailing in most of the polling now um not not massively he's it's obviously a very close race and I think everyone most of your political talking head types would would call it a tossup at this point um but that's pretty different from where it was just a month ago right and um so there's some pressure there for him to maybe try to broaden his appeal and then uh yeah we just had this school shooting a terrible horrific shooting brings gun violence the negative aspects of this issue for Republicans up to the Forefront potentially um um and so I guess you know do we think this is going to to change the Dynamics of this the gun debate in the 2024 election like we saw two the two candidates react and I would say honestly their reactions didn't indicate any sort of significant change on their part Harris called for the same three policies again in Her speech uh didn't didn't backtrack and start calling for mandatory buyback of ARS or or anything like that um Trump's reaction was you know to call the attacker sick and he promised to uh quote Heal the World uh didn't say anything about gun policy in uh he had a town hall with Fox News uh so I don't know things still seem the same at this moment it has only been a day or so while we're talking here but could this shake things up will could this bring that sort of attention and pressure to push either of these candidates in a different direction I mean I suppose it could but I I suspect that if it were going to bring sort of more fundamental changes we would have heard those we would have heard some indication of that in those early reactions um on on both sides I think the the the question you know we've got 60 60-ish days left um and again this is something you engaged in in that terrific analysis from over the weekend is sort of if if you have a a a mass shooting in which you know a a a number a dozen or more people are killed or lots of injuries something like Las Vegas for instance um what kind of effect would that have on the race and I think something like that would likely have a pretty profound effect on the race because I think what you'd see is kamla Harris move from her base sort of the standard issue um Democratic position on on guns broadly and revive some of these other policies that Democrats um talk about and sometimes push um sporadically and particularly in response to um these mass casualty attacks and then the real question would be what does Trump do because if it's the case that Trump and his campaign leaders really believe that gun owners don't vote why wouldn't they I mean and and if they have polling to to support that supposition it's come up a couple times so you know you imagine that they're not just sort of making it up um would that mean that Trump as he as he has in the past um would try to move to the center in this as part of this sort of broader blurring of ideological distinctions that I think we have really been seeing uh over the course of this campaign in particularly in response to to on the issue of guns and I do think that's possible precisely for the reason that I mentioned earlier I don't think this is a this is a conviction issue for Donald Trump um I think he'll be wary of disappointing his supporters I think the some of the people who are his hardest core supporters are also very strong Second Amendment Advocates and I think he'd be nervous about pissing them off frankly um but you know if Donald Trump is speaking instinctively or reacting or talking in an interview or giving a rally speech it would it all surprise me to see him revisit some of the the the moments where he was openly musing about more restrictive gun policy as president yeah yeah I mean that's what that's what I keep expecting might happen at some point but it you know because he's all a lot of these things line up with how he's moved on uh the abortion issue but but he's just not doing it and that's uh I don't know it's kind of a fascinating thing to watch and I yeah I guess you're right I mean one of the things that I've noticed with this uh this Georgia shooting is is how hard it is to even tell in our current media landscape like things move so much faster than they ever have before my in my opinion I don't know if you've noticed this or if you feel the same way absolutely but I don't know if like is this the Trump assassination attempt was not that long ago right uh and people barely talk about that anymore uh it's I think a lot of people almost you know think it's old news at this point it's like a month it's sort of amazing it's sort of amazing given how how close he came and given the tremendous sort of the widespread and deep um security failures that made that even a possibility it's EX extraordinary that we don't hear much of it but I think part of the reason is again this is there's neither side you know two months out from this election sees an advantage to continuing to talk about I mean Trump brings it up he will talk about it sure remember at the convention he said I'm going to tell the story he gave that sort of Moment by moment I think you know a lot of people that's probably the strongest part of his pretty gripping yeah um and then vowed not to talk about it cuz he couldn't talk about it anymore well he's talked about it a lot I mean he's told that story again and again and again as I think many of us expected he would at the time but he hasn't as as as you suggest he hasn't really built sort of a a policy program on this and I think for the same reasons that we talked about earlier it's just they don't see a political advantage to doing that at this point yeah but I wonder if like if it wouldn't take something like a you know a a something like a or Las Vegas to really be the thing that shakes up the race on gun politics because I don't know like things move so quickly now that um whether this Georgia shooting is going to break through for a long period of time and and actually change how the race proceeds is I think an open question that you seem skeptical that it was going to have that effect I mean it's super early maybe there'll be more details that come out that make the that bring it to the Forefront of news for a while but but I don't I don't know I just I mean look I mean it's an unbelievably horrifying event like you read the stories about this and the reports that the FBI had been tipped off to this shooter um and you know may may indicate another failure to sort of follow up um but but I guess in in the early days I think part of it certainly is is the the speed of the of information today there are so many things that are being covered or or even less covered than at least talked about um that whatever it is whether it's the assassination attempt I mean pick I'm trying to think of a another policy remember the the Olympics opening ceremony was all anybody talked about for 24 hours and nobody talks about it at all anymore I mean the the news cycle moves so quickly because of the proliferation of media outlets and you know what will capture people's attention people have short attention span so I do think that that's that's a factor the other question I think as it relates to you know a gun policy debate is what do we learn about this shooting and this shooter that could um you know allow Democrats to push for changes in policy and at least in these early hours it's not clear that there is something um like that yeah certainly not not necessarily something in the the main The Big Three policies everybody fights over the ones that Harris is pushing for already other than he did use an AR-15 I mean just like the Trump assassination uh attempt right because he's underage I mean I think there's you know they're all yeah there are all sorts of questions that complicate the a straight line argument and so I I imagine that's part of the reason that we're not seeing it be made yeah that that's that's I think that's really good Insight because you know sometimes uh you know if it lined up more directly with the the policies that we have stagnated on fighting about in at a national level right it probably could have a a greater impact but I think because yeah this is this 14-year-old couldn't legally buy guns on their own shouldn't have couldn't shouldn't have legally been able to have access to unsupervised rifle and then obviously bringing it to school is legal every so many things so many laws were already broken in the Commission of this crime that it's it's harder to uh uh you know connect that to not impossible obviously it's still going to be something that probably drives attention and drives up interest in the issue and um will certainly I imagine be part of the Harris campaign on uh specifically Mr alin's ban but uh but yeah like you said I don't know if it's if it were more directly connected to the politics the issue it might have more St power a more disruptive effect but right but I guess which doesn't make it any less horrifying I mean that you know read the stories and you know the the the story about the the teacher and uh two teachers and two students I mean it's horrifying in some ways incredibly frustrating if if it is in fact the case that the the people were constantly telling to speak up about these things did in fact speak up and there were some warnings and those one unheated I mean I think it's ifying sort of in every way on a human level um but but even more frustrating if it's the case that these that the that it might have been preventable or at least addressable yeah well there were apparently threats called in that day uh they had school resource officers on campus who likely saved lives by intervening as quickly as they did but obviously were not able the security procedures that they put in place uh after the the threats those mornings clearly didn't work right uh as well as they should have and um so you know there there's a lot more that that could have been done that's uh beyond what the national political debate over guns is right uh so you know that may be one factor as to why it might not well these are look I mean these are these are incredibly challenging gut-wrenching moments requiring Nuance debate good faith from from people who want to address the problem solve the problems and you know it won't surprise you to hear me say that that's not what our politics specializes in right now right I mean now we are a you know we we engage largely in performative politics on all sides and it's what can I get out of this moment to advance the next in the next inch and if there's something to be gained I'm going to exploit it and if there's nothing to be gained I'm going to be silent about it and you know I will say too that Trump's reaction while it didn't discuss policy at all probably the the visceral way of calling you know where he calls the perpetrator a monster and sick and wrong like that's probably how a lot of people feel in the moment as well so it's not U you know totally there you can see why there're some appeal to that as as in addition or you know parallel to what Harris was doing uh with with her own speech so I you know it's just we'll have to see I think obviously the big factor will be how voters feel like if they start to put guns higher up in their priority lists right um over this then yeah I think it could have have that I mean you know the polling on this better than I do for sure but I mean I think one of the polls that you cited in um this piece over the weekend suggested that it was 3% of of Voters said it was news you know a top issue or the top issue the top issue yeah you know that's that is a that's a low number and of course it represents people on both sides right or or all sides of the issue could be people who are very strongly for additional restrictions are in that 3% and people who who say you know don't take my guns are are in that 3% I think the question is you know does could if you if you had a a mass shooting where did those numbers get to just in terms of the political impact where do those numbers get to and how long do they stay and that will I mean that's the thing about the the cycle of these attacks is they you know people generally put this in a mid-level issue in fact that fox poll showed it at like the second to last issue that they ped um I think crime was was the last one by 1% so uh you know economy issues tend to dominate in these in these issue polling uh just generally across all times whether the economy is good or bad uh obviously even more so when when people see the economy is not doing well but uh and then gun you know guns and social issues abortion things like immigration uh tend to be lowered down immigration's been higher up recently uh for you know because it's been in the news a lot there's been a lot of illegal immigration people are concerned about it um but you know uh guns tend to become a higher priority issue for most people in the immediate aftermath shoo and that's when you tend to see L greater support for new restrictions and then as time goes on they uh subside in both interest and support for new restrictions yeah uh so that's the thing about a mass shooting at this point between now and the election that could make it particularly uh impactful because you know two months that's when you're in that swing of people paying more attention to it in the aftermath of a high-profile it doesn't have to be a mass you know there's obviously debate over definitions of mass shootings this is actually the first one I believe that'll fit the violence project definition this year which is pretty unusual um right because you usually get somewhere between five and 10 per year uh at least we have in recent history and so this year's been pretty um pretty low number um I don't know why that's for another podcast I suppose but but yeah uh coming at this moment you know before the election that's when it could have the most political impact because that's how these that's the cycle of this right y it's something that we can unfortunately track because of the way the this stuff uh unfolds but well it moves it moves campaigns that seem now content not to make this a big issue yeah um it would potentially move them in the kind of reactive responsive way that we've discussed to to talk about it and to prioritize it it could we'll have to see if that happens well it doesn't appear to have happened yet right that you agree on that exactly yeah all right well look uh we appreciate you coming on giving us your time and and giving us your Insight uh you're always been one of my favorite writers well before the dispatch but I really like what you guys are are are trying to pull off over there seems to be going well so far and so I'm I'm uh really happy uh to have you on can you tell people just a little bit more about the dispatch and where they can uh you know find more of your writing and podcast and stuff um we started the dispatch in October of 2019 so we're approaching our 5year anniversary which is sort of hard to this is why I have all this gray hair and a gray beard I was totally totally black here before that um that's not true what we focus on is fact-based reporting and Analysis from a center right perspective and this is one of the reasons why we have so much overlap with with what you do um we're sort of unapologetic about the fact that we come from the center right um Jonah Goldberg who's my co-founder and I would describe ourselves as movement conservatives going on three decades um so that's where we come from but our our our main objective as pride is to be intellectually honest with people and so people know they might not agree with us in fact we hope that people occasionally don't agree with us because we challenge our own assumptions we like to test other people's assumptions including our our readers and our members and we think that in at the end of that process people will look at what we produce and say yeah you know what I really trust this because I know that these guys they might be wrong about what they're saying or I might disagree with what they're saying but we know that they come to it honestly and they've done the work so that's what we've tried to do we're having a fun time doing it as I said I've aged a lot in the past five years um there's been no shortage of things to cover that's for sure uh but we think we Pro provide a pretty good guide to people who are interested in just getting kind of the Straight Dope on politics policy and culture yeah all right awesome well you cover the dispatch.com if you guys want to check out uh their offerings today I A A paid member and have been since the beginning so uh you know I I believe in what you guys are doing and uh yeah I appreciate you you taking the time but that's all we've got for you guys this week uh we will see you guys again real soon [Music]