let's talk to Tom Packer soon he makes a bit Tom very good morning to you good morning Mike um I've been quite shocked at um how bad Camala Harris's interview was on CNN she didn't really seem to be able to answer any questions she didn't really give any clues as to what her policies might be even when she was asked about what she would do on day one she couldn't really kind of articulate it um what did you make of it I mean she's never been the world's smoothest interviewer one reason her 2020 campaign crashed and burnt where she really struggled on a Mitty difficult questions about Healthcare but I think you know she Fair as not very high bath clear and she cleared it she was a she was reasonably coherent she looked much better than Biden does she was frankly more coherent than Trump is quite often um and basically I really don't agree with that I think I don't think she's coherent at all I mean she sort of rambles and talks in in riddles and she doesn't really answer any questions we aren't necessarily talking about the highest bar in the world but basically what she do is what politicians often do I'm sure they've done it on your show sometimes is just repeat their talking points again and I don't let them get away with it though that's why I work for CNN yeah quite quite possibly but you know she she made the points she weren't she didn't may say any catastrophic thing one thing which I suspect is a mistake by them is probably because she interviews badly they own they seem to be really reluctant to put her up to interviews um which I first one she's really done isn't it was first one since she became the def default nominee of of the Democrat and this was one which usually doesn't get that much attention because you have a joint one with your VP candidate um and poor VP candidate in this case barely got to say anything because she was so busy asking the the presidential candidate questions um Mo um which she gave of so so answers to right but she didn't say catastrophically she only has to beat Donald Trump she doesn't you know have to beat Jesus Christ here she's um she gave um well it is the second coming yes Second Coming Donald Trump be less popular more popular who knows but um I think you know I think it's going to all very much depend on how it goes at the debate because I think you know yes in plenty of States they're quite close but in a lot of States he's quite far ahead and so I mean unless um he makes a ma major blunder I think at the at the debate or or deals with her in a bad way I think he's got in the back I mean debate will be interesting they're both I would say unusually weak Debaters um she's actually has quite a good history of being quite good at cutting other people to pieces in debates she struggles to like make her own points um he um so I think that would be interesting usually the general rule of farm is and who horse like this debates don't change much maybe this will be different in a different world where she's so new where she's such a new candidate in a way that hasn't been true for many decades so we'll see what people make of her um in the debate I mean it's very close like she's somewhat head very narly ahead it seems in most of the Swing States might be a polling era like it was in 2016 you certainly can't rule Donald Trump out you got a bit of a bump initially when she got the the nomination because basically she wasn't Joe Biden but um the people that will vote for her will votee for her because she's also not Donald Trump but it hasn't really it hasn't really bounced again it kind of gone down a little bit since the since the domination was announced hasn't it yeah it's gone down yeah it's gone down slightly I mean depends how you measure it like I wouldn't say our polls are going down but usually after a convention they go up and they haven't really been what I mean so effectively it's like a it's like a net loss isn't it in s but of course she got loads of positive news just before the convention in a way that's quite rare so people like oh wow it's great look how articulate she is look she's able to give speeches all the time and so forth um oh we don't have to vote for Biden or Trump I wasn't looking forward to that um yeah so you know I um I think she passed a minimum thing with her her interview I suspect even if she crashed in some of them she'd be better of doing countless interviews so everyone stop being a massive story like as it is if she makes any mistake in an interview it's going to be massive national news because she giv so few well I'll tell you what the other problem she's got is is T is Tim Waltz because Tim Waltz uh gave his um sort of U very small um contribution I suppose and nobody was quite sure why he was there anyway uh apart from sort of offering some kind of support but he was kind of trying to talk around this lie that he told about you know being in charge uh of of a gun in in a war zone where he never was and he still when when we Tred I think we got the clip um Tim Waltz tried to sort of justify what said but kind of again wouldn't admit that he lied let's just have a listen to Tim Waltz you said that you carried weapons in War but you have never deployed actually in a war zone a campaign official said that you misspoke did you well first of all I'm incredibly proud I've done 24 years of wearing the uniform of this country equally proud of my service in a public school classroom whether it's Congress or uh or the governor uh my record speaks for itself but I think uh people are coming to get to know me I I speak like they do um I speak candidly I wear my emotions on my sleeves and uh I speak especially passionately about uh about our children being shot in schools and around around guns so uh I think people know me they know who I am they know where uh where my heart is and again my record has been out there for over 40 years to to speak for itself and the the idea that you said that you were in war did you missp speak as the campaign has said yeah I said we were talking about in this case this was after school shooting the of carrying these weapons of war and uh my wife the English told my grammar is not always correct but again if it's not this it's an attack on my children for showing love for me or it's an attack on my dog uh I'm not going to do that and the one thing I'll never do is I'll never demean another member's service in anyway I never have uh and I never will yeah it's a little bit economical with the truth there I'm afraid um and I think he's a bit of a liability because you know he is not what he seems is he uh I mean the general rule of farm Donald Trump is actually saying this in the case of JD Vance a few weeks ago his VP candidates don't matter very much I mean I thought to be honest that was a very good answer the current VP candidate matters a lot because she's about to be nominated as president but no but but not but she didn't matter much she I don't think she really mattered at all for John Biden winning in 20 well she didn't matter for three and a half years she suddenly matters now when they decided that Joe Biden should hop off well yeah she's the so she dies or has some disaster and she's president and wals will be president I think we get a very skilled answer there I think he is on a bit of a Sticky Wicket on the military staff but well he lied about it it's no it's not a Sticky Wicket he told a lie about being a politician you can't admit to telling a lie I I think obviously it's not deaning his service to say well actually he didn't quite do some of the things he said he in the National Guard he wasn't in he wasn't in the Army he was in the National Guard National Guard Americans I think legitimately do regard as part of the army what the more jubia stuff was stuff like suggesting he was deployed in Iraq when he wasn't that was more people doing it for him than he himself but at the same time well no he was quoted as saying um that this was a weapon that should be only carried as he did in war those were his words right it was he who said it say he had it while America was at War but yeah no it's very is I mean you know if one speakes one thing I'd say In fairness um he's may have done it a bit more than Norm if you make loads and loads of statements you are occasionally going to say some that are inaccurate but I yeah I think he's on Sticky Wicket on this but the fact is he's very smooth answer in the question as I think we saw there he's a VP candidate people don't care that much he's very reassuring you saw how camea Harris looked very very pleased I can't think of anything worse than him and her in the white house running the world I mean I just really can't think of anything worse I think it' be a disaster I think they they I can completely see where you're coming from there are a lot of people who can't see anything worse than Donald Trump and the question is who's going to outnumber who when well Donald Trump's already been president and in the four years that he was there America was a lot better place than it is right now but we got to run Tom good to talk to thanks very much indeed Tom Packer fellow of UCL Center for US policies what's